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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Beedoola on March 11, 2015, 05:17:48 PM

Title: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 11, 2015, 05:17:48 PM
I'm trying to get opinions on how it compares to the first RDD and other Belton 2 circuits.

What are you thoughts on the Deluxe? Could you possibly make a demo? There is only 2 on youtube from the same user (a poster from this forum).

Can the reverb get dark with the Tone control?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: selfdestroyer on March 11, 2015, 06:02:25 PM
Timbo has some demo up on Soundcloud of his builds. He has made quite a few RAD and RADDs. Might be a good place to start.

https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631 (https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631)

I have built quite a few RADs with long bricks and a couple with short bricks and I love the simplicity of them and its a great spring reverb sound, if that's what you are going for. The RADD is a great addition to the DIY reverbs but I only have made 2 of them. Most of my friends love the "one knob to rule them all" routine. If you are looking for very ambient sounding reverb I would suggest the Madbeans Moodring, GrindCustomsFX Tenebrion or the Space Chasm from Deadastronaut.

My father runs 2 RADs on his board, one pre-looper and one post-looper. He like to be able to record some fat reverb and add a touch on the over all loop. I have a Moodring on my board and love it. hope this helps in some way.

Cody
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 11, 2015, 07:09:49 PM
Being a big fan of the RaD, I made my Deluxe like a RaD. IE one knob for the verb and the other selects the size of the tank (done with a rotary switch and resistors). I detailed how I did it on my site, as I tend to because otherwise I'd lose the infos.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 11, 2015, 08:13:49 PM
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 11, 2015, 06:02:25 PM
Timbo has some demo up on Soundcloud of his builds. He has made quite a few RAD and RADDs. Might be a good place to start.

https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631 (https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631)

I have built quite a few RADs with long bricks and a couple with short bricks and I love the simplicity of them and its a great spring reverb sound, if that's what you are going for. The RADD is a great addition to the DIY reverbs but I only have made 2 of them. Most of my friends love the "one knob to rule them all" routine. If you are looking for very ambient sounding reverb I would suggest the Madbeans Moodring, GrindCustomsFX Tenebrion or the Space Chasm from Deadastronaut.

My father runs 2 RADs on his board, one pre-looper and one post-looper. He like to be able to record some fat reverb and add a touch on the over all loop. I have a Moodring on my board and love it. hope this helps in some way.

Cody

I'm not looking for an ambient sounding reverb. I'm not looking for a total spring emulation either. I was hoping with the added controls of the RADD that I could get some subtle reverbs to some more drenched reverbs. They don't need to be over the top, as I'd be using it with my half stack, into the front end of the amp, and a little reverb goes a long way at those volumes.

I also was hoping the inherent modulation of the Belton 2 would no longer be there, or be as apparent, with the 3, as I didn't care for the B2's modulation.

I mean the modulation can be cool for certain purposes but I didn't like it for the sound(s) I wanted.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: gtr2 on March 11, 2015, 10:46:56 PM
It would fit the bill for all the things you want...except...it does have the inherent modulation like the BTDR-2H.

Josh
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: micromegas on March 11, 2015, 11:01:34 PM
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 11, 2015, 06:02:25 PM
Timbo has some demo up on Soundcloud of his builds. He has made quite a few RAD and RADDs. Might be a good place to start.

https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631 (https://soundcloud.com/timbo_93631)

Timbo has soundcloud? Following :)

I love my RAD. Medium brick (as sugested by Forest once in a thread, the best of both worlds, not too radical nor too springy).
Mix stays at half rotation most of the time. I put a big knob there so I can move it with the foot.

Nice sounding reverb, but I'm going to build a deluxe version just to compare.

If you want to get rid of the modulation, you can always go with the bricks Raulduke discovered not so long ago:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=19769.msg192247#msg192247
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 11, 2015, 11:11:30 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on March 11, 2015, 10:46:56 PM
It would fit the bill for all the things you want...except...it does have the inherent modulation like the BTDR-2H.

Josh

Is the modulation the same as the 2? - in length and depth. I don't mind if it is slight or hidden. I found the mod really noticeable on the 2
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: gtr2 on March 11, 2015, 11:13:30 PM
I think it is less on the short decay setting on the new brick but once you extend the decay I find it similar.

Josh
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: selfdestroyer on March 11, 2015, 11:19:03 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on March 11, 2015, 11:13:30 PM
I think it is less on the short decay setting on the new brick but once you extend the decay I find it similar.

Josh

Agreed. There is just no way around "some" modulation with the Belton bricks. At least that's what I have found from the 5 or 6 different reverbs I have built with the  bricks. I'm actually moving over to a FV-1 chip to play with more reverb.

Cody
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 12, 2015, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: gtr2 on March 11, 2015, 11:13:30 PM
I think it is less on the short decay setting on the new brick but once you extend the decay I find it similar.

Josh

Does the decay time control work the same as if you had a choice between the small, medium and large B2 bricks?
That is; can the B2 cop all the tones the RAD could with all 3 bricks?

With the B2, each size determines the decay or pre-delay and decay?

Is the pre delay the same on the B3 or does it change given the adjustment of the controls?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: gtr2 on March 12, 2015, 10:46:04 AM
Predelay doesn't change much.

The BTDR-3H decay covers all the choices of the version 2 brick with a 10kB pot and you can also get a much longer decay if you use a 100kB pot.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: raulduke on March 12, 2015, 12:38:34 PM
I love the simplicity of my Rub a Dub build. The medium belton brick is my personal favourite (jack of all trades)

Personally I quite like the modulation as well  ;D

I had an EHX Cathedral Verb for a while, and the endless options on it actually became a hindrance as there was always an urge to tweak settings.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 13, 2015, 12:53:14 AM
Quote from: raulduke on March 12, 2015, 12:38:34 PM
I love the simplicity of my Rub a Dub build. The medium belton brick is my personal favourite (jack of all trades)

Personally I quite like the modulation as well  ;D

I had an EHX Cathedral Verb for a while, and the endless options on it actually became a hindrance as there was always an urge to tweak settings.

I agree about the potential hinderances of options! Thats why I sold my Timefactor. Great, great delay, but I really didn't need all the options and presets.

I had an original Spring Chicken years ago and really liked being able to just adjust the knob with my foot and have that be all I need to worry about in terms of reverb adjustment.

I saw you were messing around with other reverb sources in the link someone above linked. Have you built the RADD?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 13, 2015, 09:07:20 AM
Options smoptions. All the options you need: ;)

(http://juansolo.co.uk/stompage/images/varitank-o.jpg)
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: raulduke on March 13, 2015, 09:30:09 AM
Quote from: Beedoola on March 13, 2015, 12:53:14 AM
I saw you were messing around with other reverb sources in the link someone above linked. Have you built the RADD?

Yes this module worked perfect with the Rub-a-Dub circuit: http://www.profusionplc.com/pro/gex/pcatdtl0?ipartno=NemFxReverb2-Room-MH (http://www.profusionplc.com/pro/gex/pcatdtl0?ipartno=NemFxReverb2-Room-MH)

I would say it sounded a bit more refined than the Belton brick modules (far less noticeable modulation on the tail).

However, I couldn't tell any difference between the spring and room modules, or between the different decay settings available. I think perhaps the chips might have been programmed differently to what the data-sheet suggests  :o. The jumper links were also way too small to reliably solder switches too.

Even considering the above they would still be a good alternative option to try with a one knob Rub-a-Dub build.

Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 13, 2015, 05:36:21 PM
Quote from: juansolo on March 13, 2015, 09:07:20 AM
Options smoptions. All the options you need: ;)

(http://juansolo.co.uk/stompage/images/varitank-o.jpg)

What is it? Like a BYOC with a rotary control instead of a dwell pot?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 13, 2015, 05:48:25 PM
Rub-a-dub deluxe, modded a little.

(http://juansolo.co.uk/stompage/images/varitank-i.jpg)
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 13, 2015, 07:24:40 PM
details?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: thesameage on March 13, 2015, 07:28:29 PM
I know that he hardwired the tone with a resistor...
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 13, 2015, 08:20:27 PM
As mentioned earlier, it's on my site, but to save looking, here's the c&p:

So mine's been modded. The tone has been fixed at the same level as the original and we've replaced the variable pot with a DP6T switch. That way you can choose easily the length of virtual tank you want (finding them on the pot was impossible). Small, Medium and Large correspond to the original bricks that were 2 sec, 2.5 and 2.8 respectively. We've got as close as is indistinguishable there.

Tiny is half a Small (around a second) and Huge is probably around 3.5secs or so. Mahoosive was as far as we believe you can push it without it starting to sound pants. It's proabably around the 4sec mark. Resistor values to replicate this are as follows (they're stacked on the switch):

3k9 Tiny (used a 3k3)
6k8 Short (stacked another 3k3)
9k5 Medium (stacked a 3k)
11k2 Long (stacked a 2k)
15k Huge (stacked a 4k7)
30k Mahoosive (stacked a 15k)

Tone mod:
Omit C9.
R9 & tone pot (between pins 1 & 3) are 5k.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 14, 2015, 05:36:36 AM
Quote from: juansolo on March 13, 2015, 08:20:27 PM
As mentioned earlier, it's on my site, but to save looking, here's the c&p:

So mine's been modded. The tone has been fixed at the same level as the original and we've replaced the variable pot with a DP6T switch. That way you can choose easily the length of virtual tank you want (finding them on the pot was impossible). Small, Medium and Large correspond to the original bricks that were 2 sec, 2.5 and 2.8 respectively. We've got as close as is indistinguishable there.

Tiny is half a Small (around a second) and Huge is probably around 3.5secs or so. Mahoosive was as far as we believe you can push it without it starting to sound pants. It's proabably around the 4sec mark. Resistor values to replicate this are as follows (they're stacked on the switch):

3k9 Tiny (used a 3k3)
6k8 Short (stacked another 3k3)
9k5 Medium (stacked a 3k)
11k2 Long (stacked a 2k)
15k Huge (stacked a 4k7)
30k Mahoosive (stacked a 15k)

Tone mod:
Omit C9.
R9 & tone pot (between pins 1 & 3) are 5k.

Did you not find the tone pot useful? Do you have a schematic or layout for how you wired the rotary control?
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 14, 2015, 10:13:06 AM
I wanted a simple one knob reverb like the original. Tone is useful if you want to darken/brighten the reverb.

Wiring the rotary is fairly simple. Using two poles (they're both wired the same) running from pins one and two on each pot.

Run a wire from pin 2 of the pot pad thorough a 3K3 resistor to the one of the centre pins of the switch.
Run another wire from pin 1 of the pot pad to pin 1 of the same pole on the switch.
So now in pos 1 the signal goes through the 3K3 resistor.

The next resistor (another 3K3) goes between pins 1 and 2 of the switch.
So now in pos 2 of the switch the signal goes through both resistors in series making 6K6

The next resistor (3K) goes between pins 2 & 3 of the switch.
So now in pos 3 of the switch the signal goes through all 3 resistors in series making 9K6

The next resistor (2K) goes between pins 3 & 4 of the switch.
So now in pos 4 of the switch the signal goes through all 4 resistors in series making 11K6

The next resistor (4K7) goes between pins 4 & 5 of the switch.
So now in pos 5 of the switch the signal goes through all 5 resistors in series making 16K3

The last resistor (15K) goes between pins 5 & 6 of the switch.
So now in pos 6 of the switch the signal goes through all 6 resistors in series making 31K3

You need to repeat this for the other gang of the pot on the other pole of the switch. See the photo of the guts of mine for how it should look when done.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: gtr2 on March 14, 2015, 12:48:34 PM
Love that John!
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: thesameage on March 14, 2015, 01:15:26 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on March 14, 2015, 12:48:34 PM
Love that John!

You should do a board mounted rotary for the radd2!
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 15, 2015, 07:26:38 AM
Quote from: juansolo on March 14, 2015, 10:13:06 AM
I wanted a simple one knob reverb like the original. Tone is useful if you want to darken/brighten the reverb.

Wiring the rotary is fairly simple. Using two poles (they're both wired the same) running from pins one and two on each pot.

Run a wire from pin 2 of the pot pad thorough a 3K3 resistor to the one of the centre pins of the switch.
Run another wire from pin 1 of the pot pad to pin 1 of the same pole on the switch.
So now in pos 1 the signal goes through the 3K3 resistor.

The next resistor (another 3K3) goes between pins 1 and 2 of the switch.
So now in pos 2 of the switch the signal goes through both resistors in series making 6K6

The next resistor (3K) goes between pins 2 & 3 of the switch.
So now in pos 3 of the switch the signal goes through all 3 resistors in series making 9K6

The next resistor (2K) goes between pins 3 & 4 of the switch.
So now in pos 4 of the switch the signal goes through all 4 resistors in series making 11K6

The next resistor (4K7) goes between pins 4 & 5 of the switch.
So now in pos 5 of the switch the signal goes through all 5 resistors in series making 16K3

The last resistor (15K) goes between pins 5 & 6 of the switch.
So now in pos 6 of the switch the signal goes through all 6 resistors in series making 31K3

You need to repeat this for the other gang of the pot on the other pole of the switch. See the photo of the guts of mine for how it should look when done.

Thanks a lot!

(http://www.freestompboxes.org/images/smilies/muffin.gif)
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 24, 2015, 06:25:31 PM
I built this to Juansolo's specs. Sounds pretty good. Not very over the top, which I didn't necessarily need, but seeing the "Mahsooive" setting on his graphics, I thought it would be a lot deeper.

I'm pretty certain I built the rotary control correctly.

Also, I notice in the gutshot of Juan's build that C9 still present yet you said to remove it, if not using the tone control. I omitted the Tone Control after trying it and left C9 out...
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 24, 2015, 08:45:00 PM
Think I popped that off later when I realised.

If you want massive endless verb you'll need to build a reverb with a feedback control. Massive is referring to the virtual tank size. Given a large tank gives a time of around 2.8 sec, the virtual tank on the mahoosive setting would be about twice the size of the head... Feel free to go bigger, no reason why not, I just personally thought it all fell apart if you went bigger and stopped sounding like a reverb. It's DIY dude, experiment, that's what it's all about. There are no right or wrong answers.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: Beedoola on March 25, 2015, 12:14:36 AM
Quote from: juansolo on March 24, 2015, 08:45:00 PM
Think I popped that off later when I realised.

If you want massive endless verb you'll need to build a reverb with a feedback control. Massive is referring to the virtual tank size. Given a large tank gives a time of around 2.8 sec, the virtual tank on the mahoosive setting would be about twice the size of the head... Feel free to go bigger, no reason why not, I just personally thought it all fell apart if you went bigger and stopped sounding like a reverb. It's DIY dude, experiment, that's what it's all about. There are no right or wrong answers.

Thanks. I really like the middle setting. I may add a dual gang pot and a switch to choose between the rotary and the pot. I wasn't sure if the current sounds via the rotary demonstrated as extreme as the circuit could get or if as extreme as it could get given the values of the pot.

Does increase the resistance make the reverb larger/longer?

Thanks again for the info.
Title: Re: 1776 Rub-a-dub deluxe: Who has built one?
Post by: juansolo on March 25, 2015, 09:44:12 AM
Yep, stick a 50K dual gang pot on there if you want to experience some bigger settings. Personally I thought it sounded best up to around 25-30k (Mahoosive is 30k or there abouts). Go to 100k if you really want to go to town.