I swear, the discussions on TGP about drives (actually, the discussions there in general) are almost too stupid to be believed. And there is never consensus. Like this thread on the Morning Glory and the Timmy: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1551475
No description about what each does, or how it works. One of the reasons I started building pedals was my inability to wade through the BS when it comes to effects, drives in particular.
I am looking for an OD that is gritty but transparent, but also smooth and compressed with a nice mid-range hump ;)
Haha, this just kills me.
(http://www.hrwiki.org/w/images/thumb/3/3c/YOUR_HEAD_A_SPLODE.png/250px-YOUR_HEAD_A_SPLODE.png)
I want to change my initial tone without changing my initial tone by changing my initial tone.
Cody
Yeah, I've had to close the browser several times after accidentally clicking on that thread.
Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball
Yes, TGP threads usually proceed something like this...
A: I just got the new Wacky Jack Fuzz from Pro Shredder Effects in Portland. It was their last one. Score!
B: You mean the fuzz that Buck Jackson of Killerweed uses on tour?? Oh man!
A: Yeah, it's killer, especially with my custom Strat...oh, and my Les Paul too.
C: Wacky Jack himself sez that the fuzz has special germanium MOS HFET transistors that he himself biases for each pedal! And PIO caps! Toan!!!!!!!!!
D: Man, I came this close to trading my vintage Vox wah for a Wacky Jack fuzz. I'll get one...you'll see.
A: Toan!
B: Toan!
C: Toan!
A: Hey, fellas, I just traded my Wacky Jack fuzz for a Free Fungus Echo Drive! Killer toan to the bone!
B: Yeah I grew tired of my Wacky Jack fuzz too. The notes just didn't bloom for me...
C: I just scored an Echo Drive from eBay! Stoked!
D: Sweet...
A: Toan!
B: Toan!
C: Toan!
What is a Crowther Hotcake???
Personally I prefer the Chick Fillet Hot Waffle. It has syrupy tone with a touch of rich peanut-buttery goodness, all based on germanium-silicon tube hybrid asymmetrical soft hard clipping terminology. Basically, a flax seed bergum spinger with loads of electro-pronunciation.
Just hook up a compressor and make sure your AC lines are pure oxygen-free copper.
Quote from: Frank_NH on March 18, 2015, 12:40:16 AM
Yes, TGP threads usually proceed something like this...
A: I just got the new Wacky Jack Fuzz from Pro Shredder Effects in Portland. It was their last one. Score!
B: You mean the fuzz that Buck Jackson of Killerweed uses on tour?? Oh man!
A: Yeah, it's killer, especially with my custom Strat...oh, and my Les Paul too.
C: Wacky Jack himself sez that the fuzz has special germanium MOS HFET transistors that he himself biases for each pedal! And PIO caps! Toan!!!!!!!!!
D: Man, I came this close to trading my vintage Vox wah for a Wacky Jack fuzz. I'll get one...you'll see.
A: Toan!
B: Toan!
C: Toan!
A: Hey, fellas, I just traded my Wacky Jack fuzz for a Free Fungus Echo Drive! Killer toan to the bone!
B: Yeah I grew tired of my Wacky Jack fuzz too. The notes just didn't bloom for me...
C: I just scored an Echo Drive from eBay! Stoked!
D: Sweet...
A: Toan!
B: Toan!
C: Toan!
You should probably cite the webpage when you copy and paste directly from TGP.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1541715
...the number of times people have tried to explain the Klon(e) to them with knowledge, physics and common sense... This is the reason I try and stay away from that forum. Also the reason I'm not going to build another bloody klone. ever. (actually I might make one as I've got one Pickdropper board left, though technically it's built as it's populated, so I'll just be installing...).
I worked for a winery for 3 years and all the tasting guys would use the most ridiculous words to describe the taste/smell of the wines. It used to drive me CRAZY to listen to them, and my desk was only a few feet from their offices. There are some times where TGP reminds me of that. "This OD has some nutty overtones with a woodsy feel to it." LOL
Cody
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 18, 2015, 05:01:15 PM
I worked for a winery for 3 years and all the tasting guys would use the most ridiculous words to describe the taste/smell of the wines. It used to drive me CRAZY to listen to them, and my desk was only a few feet from their offices. There are some times where TGP reminds me of that. "This OD has some nutty overtones with a woodsy feel to it." LOL
Cody
Hahaha, I think someliers study those "refinements" as actual parameters to determine wine quality/flavour... but I might be wrong.
Your description is hilarious anyway :).
I don't visit TGP, although I think I have an account there (their system may think I'm a bot).
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 18, 2015, 05:01:15 PM
I worked for a winery for 3 years and all the tasting guys would use the most ridiculous words to describe the taste/smell of the wines. It used to drive me CRAZY to listen to them, and my desk was only a few feet from their offices. There are some times where TGP reminds me of that. "This OD has some nutty overtones with a woodsy feel to it." LOL
Cody
I went to enology college and was entirely turned off wine by the idiotic fanboys. They would describe all this ethereal crap to their friends about moonlight mojo and biodynamic bs. They couldn't even pronounce the names of the grapes they were experts on. Never once did someone say "this tastes like the controlled spoilage of grapes." Our winery actually kept a box of peter vella cab sauv on hand to serve to the tasting room surfers. It was fun watching them find the subtle differences in having the same cheap wine over and over while convinced it was a variety of high end stuff... now try our syrah!, its jammy!.
I don't visit TGP either for all the aforementioned reasons. I still can't escape it though as some customers who frequent TGP WAY to much come in with shitty information and ideas about TOAN that want from their amp or pedal.
I had a dude the other day tell me he wants his little solid-state marshall modded to achieve "that sweet, rich dumble-midrange"
WTF is that? :o
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 18, 2015, 05:01:15 PM
I worked for a winery for 3 years and all the tasting guys would use the most ridiculous words to describe the taste/smell of the wines. It used to drive me CRAZY to listen to them, and my desk was only a few feet from their offices. There are some times where TGP reminds me of that. "This OD has some nutty overtones with a woodsy feel to it." LOL
Cody
Ironic that you happened to use at least one actually USEFUL descriptor of wine. Not everything is total BS. "Woodsy" is tannins, which are present in grape skins and leeched from casks. Some other things that people can taste in common: Red fruits (including tomatoes) do have a specific flavor/smell. Tobacco. Coffee. Smoothness. Loose base. ohellwaitaminit ...
Quote from: midwayfair on March 18, 2015, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: selfdestroyer on March 18, 2015, 05:01:15 PM
I worked for a winery for 3 years and all the tasting guys would use the most ridiculous words to describe the taste/smell of the wines. It used to drive me CRAZY to listen to them, and my desk was only a few feet from their offices. There are some times where TGP reminds me of that. "This OD has some nutty overtones with a woodsy feel to it." LOL
Cody
Ironic that you happened to use at least one actually USEFUL descriptor of wine. Not everything is total BS. "Woodsy" is tannins, which are present in grape skins and leeched from casks. Some other things that people can taste in common: Red fruits (including tomatoes) do have a specific flavor/smell. Tobacco. Coffee. Smoothness. Loose base. ohellwaitaminit ...
Don't get me wrong Jon, there are definitely "proper" descriptive words I just thought it was funny since they were grasping at straws just to come up with other words just to impress people.. like on TGP. I really do think that some of these descriptive words need to exist since we are a very sensory beings. To try to describe something to another human we need to sue words that apply to visual/audio/smell-able? descriptive words. Like with Wines, foods, cigars and other things that are very subjective and hard to explain to another individual. but... it can really get out of hand like with the work "transparent" and " No coloring" since its just false.
/ranting
Cody
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
You could break it down a bit more with "Not so shite" and "Could be shiteier" lol
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
I truly believe you should start a talent show called "shite or not shite." I would watch it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: pickdropper on March 18, 2015, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
I truly believe you should start a talent show called "shite or not shite." I would watch it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It'd be short. Imagine the pace of it with a panel of flat cap wearing maungy bastards.
Contestant1: I'd like to sing a song #Somewheeeeere....#
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant2: I'm going to juggle these...
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant3: I'm have a performing animal...
Judge1: Shite. What a load of bollocks. Pub?
Judge2&3 (in unison): Pub.
Contestant4: Hello...?
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on March 18, 2015, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
I truly believe you should start a talent show called "shite or not shite." I would watch it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It'd be short. Imagine the pace of it with a panel of flat cap wearing maungy bastards.
Contestant1: I'd like to sing a song #Somewheeeeere....#
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant2: I'm going to juggle these...
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant3: I'm have a performing animal...
Judge1: Shite. What a load of bollocks. Pub?
Judge2&3 (in unison): Pub.
Contestant4: Hello...?
Then the judging continues at the Pub. The show could go in the wee hours of the night until the judges were completely pissed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is actually true. The amount of things deemed shite by me and Cleggy down the pub is quite large.
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
Based on my knowledge of EPL football, I thought it was either "brilliant" or "rubbish".
I had the treble mod done. It's very subtle, and not detectable by the human ear. But if you have some really expensive test equipment, it totally shows up.
Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on March 19, 2015, 02:12:29 AM
I had the treble mod done. It's very subtle, and not detectable by the human ear expensive test equipment. But if you have some really expensive test equipment golden ears, it totally shows up.
You wrote this wrong for TGP. I fixed it.
^^ It's not so much the *sound* as it is the *feel*. (<< that's my favorite punt after a long argument)
So..... if I skim through these TGP threads very quickly it seems to boil down to this, people asking for advice on what is a very subjective thing (recommend me something you guys like) using empty subjective terms that can mean absolutely everything.
Might as well have asked for a list of OD pedals and then used them to look them up on youtube. Sure, it will sound shitty and compressed at times, but it will still be a lot more useful.
The Gear Page, always good for a facepalm, shits and giggles.
I do wish we had a more agreed upon vocabulary for this sort of thing, though. I know someone mentioned earlier that "transparent" is just false -- it is, yes, but I was under the impression that we used it to mean "no Tube Screamer-style mids hump" or "no significant EQ change other than the added harmonics you would expect from an overdrive".
Gritty, fizzy, smooth -- I would like to think that those are terms we can agree on. You know them when you hear them, right? But do we have further terms that can define them so that we know we mean the same thing? Is it the quality of the distortion or a function of the EQ or both?
Compressed, again, I think most of us know what this means and can explain that we are talking about the dynamic range: soft sounds made louder and vice versa, added sustain, etc. But that got me thinking about "touch-sensitive". Is touch-sensative the opposite of compressed because your dynamics are preserved? Or does compression add touch-sensitivity because it amplifies the subtleties of your playing?
Organic? Well, at least the other terms are trying to describe something. Organic always struck me as the ultimate b.s. term. You can say it and no one will challenge you, because by saying it you are showing that you understand the subtleties of tone at a level that dwarfs those who don't know what you mean by it. Even if it means "doesn't obscure the original sound of the guitar and amp", which is the only definition I'm willing to entertain, there has to be a better word for that.
Just thinking out loud. We should have a common vocabulary to discuss tone -- not everything about sound is subjective. What terms can we agree on?
I think the most valuable analysis I've heard on how things sound involves discrete and specific areas of playing. I.e. a drive's note decay, or attack, and clipping characteristics. Other than that, I think that "transparent" "organic" and "touch sensitive" are not very good descriptive words for guitar effects.
I love when people say they will "wait for the pete thorn/mike hermans demo" to see how whatever pedal sounds. Those guys are both such killer players that everything they play with sounds good. I would buy more pedals from pro guitar shop or whatever if the pedal could make me play like either one of them.
Quote from: playpunk on March 19, 2015, 03:38:36 PM
I think the most valuable analysis I've heard on how things sound involves discrete and specific areas of playing. I.e. a drive's note decay, or attack, and clipping characteristics. Other than that, I think that "transparent" "organic" and "touch sensitive" are not very good descriptive words for guitar effects.
I love when people say they will "wait for the pete thorn/mike hermans demo" to see how whatever pedal sounds. Those guys are both such killer players that everything they play with sounds good. I would buy more pedals from pro guitar shop or whatever if the pedal could make me play like either one of them.
True. No matter what pedal I buy or build it never seems to sound like the one Andy is playing from PGS 8)
Quote from: mgwhit on March 19, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
Gritty, fizzy, smooth -- I would like to think that those are terms we can agree on. You know them when you hear them, right? But do we have further terms that can define them so that we know we mean the same thing? Is it the quality of the distortion or a function of the EQ or both?
Gritty == Tom Waits
Fizzy == Bonnie Tyler
Smooth == Tarja Turunen
You can get a great booster/dirt tone simply by running through the preamp of an old reel-to-reel. Somebody should build an overdrive directly cloned off one of these circuits and then encase it into a 10x5x4 black resin brick. Call it the Flufengurgen and mention that Mike Growtherly used it to record the Fathom Miser sessions, and watch it go for $3,004.00 on Ebay.
For a description, mention that, "it sounds....good."
How woodsy is that?
Quote from: playpunk on March 19, 2015, 03:38:36 PM
I think the most valuable analysis I've heard on how things sound involves discrete and specific areas of playing. I.e. a drive's note decay, or attack, and clipping characteristics. Other than that, I think that "transparent" "organic" and "touch sensitive" are not very good descriptive words for guitar effects.
I just got an EHX B9, that's organic ;)
Quote from: pickdropper on March 18, 2015, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 10:08:28 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on March 18, 2015, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: juansolo on March 18, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Being from Yorkshire I can describe anything using a maximum of two words; 'shite' or 'not shite'. ;)
I truly believe you should start a talent show called "shite or not shite." I would watch it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It'd be short. Imagine the pace of it with a panel of flat cap wearing maungy bastards.
Contestant1: I'd like to sing a song #Somewheeeeere....#
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant2: I'm going to juggle these...
Judge1: Shite, next
Contestant3: I'm have a performing animal...
Judge1: Shite. What a load of bollocks. Pub?
Judge2&3 (in unison): Pub.
Contestant4: Hello...?
Then the judging continues at the Pub. The show could go in the wee hours of the night until the judges were completely pissed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LOL Guy Martin (who someone down south thinks I sound like):
I am drinking a pint of tea as I watched that.
Quote from: juansolo on March 20, 2015, 07:42:02 AM
I am drinking a pint of tea as I watched that.
My wife brought home PG tips for me the other day, but I thought it was, well, shite. How do you feel about Yorkshire Gold?
Nicest stuff by far is Punjana.
Yorkshire tea or Tetley's works when Punjana isn't on offer.
Do we need a tea thread? :)
Quote from: mgwhit on March 19, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
I do wish we had a more agreed upon vocabulary for this sort of thing, though. I know someone mentioned earlier that "transparent" is just false -- it is, yes, but I was under the impression that we used it to mean "no Tube Screamer-style mids hump" or "no significant EQ change other than the added harmonics you would expect from an overdrive".
Gritty, fizzy, smooth -- I would like to think that those are terms we can agree on. You know them when you hear them, right?
Never be too sure about that. One man's fizzy is clarity to another. One man's smooth is bassy to another. Even if you can agree that one term covers a certain spectrum there will still be disagreement over which area of the sound spectrum these terms cover exactly.
QuoteBut do we have further terms that can define them so that we know we mean the same thing? Is it the quality of the distortion or a function of the EQ or both?
Just thinking out loud. We should have a common vocabulary to discuss tone -- not everything about sound is subjective. What terms can we agree on?
Nothing really. Like I said, in the end its all about personal taste and there is nothing more subjective then personal taste. We can recommend our favorites, we can try do describe them, but in the end there is no substitute to trying it out. And a good sounding pedal demo on youtube will say a 1000x more then a thousand comments trying to describe a pedal. And even that is suspect due to youtube audio compression.
Quote from: midwayfair on March 20, 2015, 04:13:12 PM
Do we need a tea thread? :)
Nah, I pretty much sewed it up in that reply ;)