*****EDIT*****
Loads more boards added, going to get them ordered soon and built up to test. Full list of boards are:
- Boneyard single channel version
- Midnight Haunting (Haunting Mids)
- Juicier Juice (Orange Squeezer)
- Sea Fleas (Deep Blue Delay)
- STD (OCD)
- Swamprat (Wampler Plexitone)
- Unicorn Slaying (Klon)
- Little Chubby (Husky Boy)
- Thunder Buddy (Thunderpuss)
- Fat Boosted (Spackler)
- Faux Paux (Leviathan - Wampler Faux Echo)
- 828 (Demo Tape Fuzz)
*****END OF EDIT*****
I've recently got into the 1590A enclosures after mainly sticking with the 1590B, so I've had a little creative spurt on board designing. These are just my latest ones, and are either here waiting for parts, or I'm waiting for the boards to arrive to test them. I also always try and hide the vias in pads which helps to keep the boards looking neat.
Single channel MB boneyard that's in the extra projects section.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/b9a1aab764afe9ec79612c9c5e135f2d.jpg)
Midnight Haunting (Haunting Mids from etchers paradise).
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/fd037beb1a6852507dfbb4a3222d3068.jpg)
Juicer Juice (Orange Squeezer).
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/2012ab668a60a034ef97d37d0a744dd6.jpg)
Sea Fleas (Deep Blue Delay). Has an optional dirt control for oscillation, and pinched the name from another member on here as it's such a good name. Awaiting a couple of parts for it.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/c433b6785e07ccd4b0319b0db6174a0e.jpg)
STD (OCD). Awaiting a couple of parts for it.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/d185cbd517985595eb7ca28e3a2134cb.jpg)
Swampy (Swamprat aka Wampler Plexitone).
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/00f87ad522d38150eb3c744d2ffdd40a.jpg)
Unicorn Slaying (Klon). Never built a Klon before, always wanted to see what the hype was about.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/150a00a63649be6879ef7a9d81152283.jpg)
I've got a few others in various states of design as well, and a full build report will be given on each one.
In the meantime, here is some pics of a half built STD and Snitch (Rat) and a completed Lovepedal Plexi which I'll test tomorrow.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/8a797b936371365e3c5de6b8e07b54c1.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/7b148e93e44dd5858320de03bce0cdc6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/fcc4512fdb1e78c5dda55b352d5fec1e.jpg)
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Nice batch of boards. I like the via-in-pad trick. I've thought about it but wasn't sure if there would be any problems with fabbing that way. A lot of time I put the vias between the pads. I had to make the pads a bit smaller to accommodate them.
Also, I know Smallbear stocks SMD PT2399's. So you may be able to find those from a supplier near you if interested.
I've been thinking about getting a hot air setup. Looks very tempting
Very cool. 8)
Quote from: chuckbuick on February 20, 2016, 12:35:47 AM
Nice batch of boards. I like the via-in-pad trick. I've thought about it but wasn't sure if there would be any problems with fabbing that way. A lot of time I put the vias between the pads. I had to make the pads a bit smaller to accommodate them.
Also, I know Smallbear stocks SMD PT2399's. So you may be able to find those from a supplier near you if interested.
I was a bit worried about that at first as Eagle doesn't let you place a via inside a pad and throws up an error on the error checking tool (I never use that now for that reason). I change layer and create a via near the pad, then when the trace is complete I move the via into the pad, never had an issue with it. However, now I'm using paste stencils, I use a lot less solder on the pads and you can see the vias (I assume it's where solder goes down the via hole). I can always top up the solder afterwards though. Before I started putting the vias in pads I did try to place them between the pads, but I wasn't sure how to edit parts at that time.
I didn't know Smallbear had them! I ordered a bunch from a seller on Aliexpress but couldn't get a delay working, assumed it was the chips, it wasn't though. Once bitten twice shy and all that. I'm ordering some adaptor boards so I can test the SMD versions when I get a working delay, then if it works well it's just a case of changing the PCB slightly.
Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on February 20, 2016, 01:15:02 AM
I've been thinking about getting a hot air setup. Looks very tempting
It's definitely a lot quicker and easier. I got mine just over 2 years ago on eBay. The one I've got is very similar to the picture below, but my one is the 862+ model so I'm assuming this one is an updated one of mine. I used to use one of those really cheap soldering irons so I decided to get a unit with a soldering iron as well. You can change the temp of the soldering iron, and the temp and air speed of the hot air gun.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160220/90b14d88c866250918622adc00b7f83f.jpg)
Quote from: culturejam on February 20, 2016, 02:10:08 AM
Very cool. 8)
Cheers buddy, fingers crossed they all work first time though! :)
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Snitch is a great name for a Rat clone.
i would be very very interested on buying some of that small stuff
Stevie
These are great, quite a nice run! Two of my favorite things, smd and 1590a. 👍🏼
FYI you do have to watch the vias in the pads a bit, the hole can make it hard to create even surface tensions between pads during reflow. An imbalance often leads to skewed or tombstoned parts.
It gets even weirder when the via does/doesn't have soldermask over the top on the other side, goes into another pad, ground planes, stops at an internal layer, etc.
In production it can cause a lot of havoc (especially when they buy 100k pcb at a time) but for what we're doing here I wouldn't worry too much. Props for creative problem solving.
Also, you can probably use smaller via diameters without issue, and that should help avoid a lot of problems too. Check the design guidelines for the fabber, I think it's something like 13mil at oshpark.
Quote from: Matmosphere on February 20, 2016, 02:51:18 PM
Snitch is a great name for a Rat clone.
Snitches get stitches! Sorry, I've been watching far too many crime documentaries lately.
Quote from: copachino on February 20, 2016, 03:31:53 PM
i would be very very interested on buying some of that small stuff
I'll be putting the spare ones up for sale, don't worry. Just want to check that they fully work first. I've got several others, a couple of boosts, 2 buffers, and a few others already verified though.
Quote from: wgc on February 20, 2016, 04:27:27 PM
Stevie
These are great, quite a nice run! Two of my favorite things, smd and 1590a. 👍🏼
FYI you do have to watch the vias in the pads a bit, the hole can make it hard to create even surface tensions between pads during reflow. An imbalance often leads to skewed or tombstoned parts.
It gets even weirder when the via does/doesn't have soldermask over the top on the other side, goes into another pad, ground planes, stops at an internal layer, etc.
In production it can cause a lot of havoc (especially when they buy 100k pcb at a time) but for what we're doing here I wouldn't worry too much. Props for creative problem solving.
Also, you can probably use smaller via diameters without issue, and that should help avoid a lot of problems too. Check the design guidelines for the fabber, I think it's something like 13mil at oshpark.
Thanks for the advice! I've got my vias set to the lowest that is preset in Eagle, which seems OK, I'll see if I can lower it more though. I've found that, especially on the more complicated boards, vias are a necessary evil and can't be avoided unless you make a board the size of a small car, so it's more for hiding them to make the board look neater.
I've always had an issue with components skewing off of 1 pad, and it happens with or without vias. I'm assuming it's because I use different amounts of solder paste on each pad, and the surface tension is higher on one side then the other, but using a stencil seemed to mostly solve that issue.
I've got 2 guitars on order, when they arrive and are payed off I'm thinking of investing in a reflow oven, so it will be interesting to see if the vias affect the pads then. Reflow ovens seem pretty cheap on eBay at the moment as well.
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Agree on all points. Some of the desktop ovens are pretty nice for the money. It might help but imho it's really about how much paste flows into the via and how much stays on the pad. A lot of that can vary based on other factors but regardless a good heat profile goes a long way.
You can manually change the drill diameter in the Drill drop down menu when you open the Vias tool. Just highlight the existing size and enter the size you need. I usually use .0156" and leave the Diameter set to Auto which gives me a pad diameter of .0296".
As far as them being a necessary evil I say they are your friends. If you can do an SMD layout without vias then you essentially have an etchable, single-sided layout. For some reason some people seem to think they are bad things. I started out doing SMD designs. When I started doing through hole layouts it occurred to me that every pin is a via. If you do an SMD layout that uses 40 of the usual stompbox components and have to use 10 or so vias, the guy doing the same circuit in thru hole is starting with at least 80. But realistically more when you consider some will be multi-pin tranny's and IC's.
Having said that I take a lot of time with placement of parts and routing to avoid them. But that is purely for aesthetic reasons. If I can't avoid using vias I don't feel like the layout is compromised.
End of via rant.
Quote from: chuckbuick on February 21, 2016, 06:08:07 PM
Having said that I take a lot of time with placement of parts and routing to avoid them. But that is purely for aesthetic reasons. If I can't avoid using vias I don't feel like the layout is compromised.
At audio signal frequencies and voltages I'm not sure why it's a concern, either.
Quote from: wgc on February 21, 2016, 02:56:06 AM
Agree on all points. Some of the desktop ovens are pretty nice for the money. It might help but imho it's really about how much paste flows into the via and how much stays on the pad. A lot of that can vary based on other factors but regardless a good heat profile goes a long way.
TBH, the main reason that I want a reflow oven is because it's another gadget for me to play with, and not really anything to do with trying to solder the boards better. I'm just a big kid when it comes to getting new toys!
Quote from: chuckbuick on February 21, 2016, 06:08:07 PM
You can manually change the drill diameter in the Drill drop down menu when you open the Vias tool. Just highlight the existing size and enter the size you need. I usually use .0156" and leave the Diameter set to Auto which gives me a pad diameter of .0296".
As far as them being a necessary evil I say they are your friends. If you can do an SMD layout without vias then you essentially have an etchable, single-sided layout. For some reason some people seem to think they are bad things. I started out doing SMD designs. When I started doing through hole layouts it occurred to me that every pin is a via. If you do an SMD layout that uses 40 of the usual stompbox components and have to use 10 or so vias, the guy doing the same circuit in thru hole is starting with at least 80. But realistically more when you consider some will be multi-pin tranny's and IC's.
Having said that I take a lot of time with placement of parts and routing to avoid them. But that is purely for aesthetic reasons. If I can't avoid using vias I don't feel like the layout is compromised.
End of via rant.
I wasn't saying vias are bad, quite the opposite really. When I first starting trying SMD I read that vias are a necessary evil, and that's just how I've always referred to them in my head. I googled 0.0156" and it works out at 0.39mm, and I use 0.5mm for my vias, so I'll try a smaller size on the next board design.
I've always had the same outlook as you in the fact that the TH boards always use lots of vias, which I think inherently makes the parts easier to place up to a certain extent. I used to try and avoid vias when i first started, purely for looks reasons, but when I found I can hide them in pads, I started to use them a lot more
I've had a bit of time on my hands tonight, and did all 3 boosts from EP in SMD. I'll probably send them off to be made next week as it also means ordering extra SMD parts that I don't currently have.
Quite looking forward to trying these as I do enjoy using a good boost. I may try the Leviathan at some point this week, it will be a challenge but I think I have a work around for the sizing issue.
Little Chubby - Husky Boy
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/5fafd6d94276e814c5ccbdcc4d33afe9.jpg)
Thunder Buddy (from Ted) - Thunderpuss
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/4e4ad790d787f472f66ec045740c908c.jpg)
Fat Boosted - Spackler
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/f889c9a3ef0904638522ca5c0bc70530.jpg)
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I suspect that via's being bad dates back to when fabbed PCBs were expensive, and fabbed PCBs with reliably plated through holes were even MORE spendy. (This is two or three decades ago!)
Quote from: alanp on February 22, 2016, 12:04:59 AM
I suspect that via's being bad dates back to when fabbed PCBs were expensive, and fabbed PCBs with reliably plated through holes were even MORE spendy. (This is two or three decades ago!)
That definitely makes sense, especially as the technology has massively improved in that time.
I've just knocked up another layout from EP. It's the Leviathan and I've called it the Faux Paux. It was much easier then I anticipated to create, and I decided to split it into 2 sections, with the main signal section of the schematic and the power section on board one, and the PT2399 on board 2. The main reason is because I'm worried that the length of the board would be too long and not fit in the enclosure.
I can't decide if it's better to use those double sided sticky pads to attach the boards together, or to modify the boards and have double header pins holder them together. I'm looking forward to trying this one out, I'll get the boards ordered next week along with some others.
Anyway, here is the layout, it may change slightly if I use the double header pins.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/092cecb5506db75ed52fce752e76a4ff.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/1be5ea1da1fa49b88ec16b6cc13905e3.jpg)
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Yet another one, most likely the last one today. It's the 424 Demo Tape Fuzz, with the absolutely genius and inventive name of 828. Naming boards is definitely the hardest bit!
Already got this one for a 1590A, so thought a smaller version would be nice for my pedal board.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/7c55014f681504424d40e7a8f2e9635e.jpg)
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looking good! I was wondering where you get your parts from, especially tantalums, diodes and other actives. tantalums can be rather expensive, but they are way smaller than regular electrolytics..
I started using tantalums as I couldn't work out what the right footprints were in EagleCAD for the electrolytics. I get some tantalums from Rapid Electronics, but I mainly use Aliexpress. Most of my semi conductor stuff comes from there (ICs, Diodes, etc). Mouser has a lot of the parts, but they are more expensive and I point blank refuse to pay Mouser £12 for postage. FWIW, I've never received dodgy parts from Aliexpress, and the advantage is I've found some parts that aren't listed as SMD on the datasheets.
OK, this is definitely the last one for tonight, as I've got a long list of stuff that I need to get done. It's a DAM Meathead, I can't find a SMD version of the BC182L so I've had to use a TH one.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/2b0192be430fbc6eac8afa85781c7a8c.jpg)
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You're on fire, Stevie. Same some SMD components for the rest of us :)
Quote from: alanp on February 22, 2016, 12:04:59 AM
I suspect that via's being bad dates back to when fabbed PCBs were expensive, and fabbed PCBs with reliably plated through holes were even MORE spendy. (This is two or three decades ago!)
This is pretty accurate I think. The other thing is in the early days of multilayer boards, a bad lamination could cause a via to split and then an open connection that couldn't easily be fixed. And then one would usually lead to more over time.
I use bias without shame but always feel like I did a better job if I can figure out a more direct path.
Quote from: chuckbuick on February 22, 2016, 11:30:38 PM
You're on fire, Stevie. Same some SMD components for the rest of us :)
Cheers buddy! I haven't sent the majority of the boards off yet so there is still some components about!
I've just had an email to say that Unicorn Slaying (Klon) has been shipped, so need to order the missing bits for that today.
Quote from: wgc on February 22, 2016, 11:38:33 PM
This is pretty accurate I think. The other thing is in the early days of multilayer boards, a bad lamination could cause a via to split and then an open connection that couldn't easily be fixed. And then one would usually lead to more over time.
I use bias without shame but always feel like I did a better job if I can figure out a more direct path.
Totally makes sense. I remember back in the mid 90's my school tried having multilayer boards with vias made, over half didn't work and the rest failed within a short space of time. This was back when the school just bought their first heated etching tank for the electronics classes.
I really shouldn't have done this one today as I've got so much to do, but I've done another layout! It's for the Sweet Honey in the extra projects section, and I've called this one Honey Jar. Definitely won't have any time today to do anymore as I'm going to the running club this evening and the rest of the day I'm going to be pretty busy.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/89caf7f52b885e00886df4559358be5e.jpg)
I've wanted to try out the Xotic EP Booster for quite some time now as I've always heard how good it is. It's just appeared in Etchers Paradise, so I've knocked up a quick SMD layout for it. It's going straight to the top of the pile of boards that I want made on payday.
It took about an hour for the schematic and layout, and creating a new part in Eagle (for the 2nd transistor). I've also got placement for a TH transistor for Q2 so I can have more transistors to experiment with).
More then likely the only layout I'm going to get today, gotta sort my car out as I hit a 4 foot crowbar a couple of weeks ago that trashed my tyre and alloy, and now the battery is flat. I used my car for 3 journeys on Sunday and each time is started ok, went to use it last night and the battery is flat. I'm hoping the crowbar didn't do any damage to the alternator or wiring. Got a battery charger hooked up to it so seeing if that does the trick.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160224/e090764ff7f8620c7d741bafcd8eec94.jpg)
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A friend of mind absolutely loves his Sweet Honey OD, but wants it in a 1590A to save space on his gigging board. I've knocked up a quick layout for it, going to send the boards off to the fab house tomorrow. Quite looking forward to building this one.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/601bd6bc099b31133b100fc74ecefd67.jpg)
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Wow, very prolific indeed. I like your energy and drive, makes me want to miniaturize things lol. I'm curious, it appears that you have done a copper pour on the top plane, but left the bottom unpoured. Is there any reason for this? In my day job of medical device instrumentation, the PCB guys work very hard at what we call "copper balance". Besides the "ground plane" effect, as the boards become larger they try to balance the copper on the layers to avoid warping during processing or post processing environmental humidity / temperature changes which can be hell on smt boards with lead free solder.
Regarding reflow ovens, hot air etc, we don't use any in engineering for proto builds or debugging. All hand placed down to 0402 size under a microscope using Metcal stations - of course the 200+ ball BGAs are usually placed at a board house and x rayed and inductors with bottom pads will get hot air. To give you an idea of size and density, the last 6 layer board that I did a mechanical check on, approximately 4 in x 4 in, had over 2300 vias and took more than 5 minutes to load the EMN IDF 3D model in Pro-E!
Cheers. I've got 2 basic layout plan rules for them now which definitely makes them quicker and easier to layout. There isn't any main reason why I use the copper pour on just the top layer, it's just the way I've always done it since I started learning Eagle 4-5 years ago. I can understand the concept of balanced copper pours, and never even considered it with mine. However, having said that, I've never had an issue with warping or failed boards out of all the SMD builds that I have done. I'll have a look into it though as it does sound interesting.
That's a hell of a lot of vias on that size board! I always assumed that 0402 and smaller parts were mainly done by pick and place machines, I don't think that I would want to hand place them. Whoever does that must have very very very steady hands!
I've just sent off the designs for Sweetness Driver (MP Sweet Honey OD), Swampy (Wampler Plexitone), 828 Fuzz (Demo Tape Fuzz) and Exotic Boosting (EP Booster). About to make a parts list to order the parts so i can build them up as soon as they arrive. I've just realised that I do actually have the diodes for Snitch, so as soon as the pots turn up I can get that verified (hopefully tomorrow). I tried getting away with using the 3mm pilot hole for the 3mm LED for the Green Envy pedal, but the LED doesn't fit snugly, so I need to drill the hole bigger for the holder then I can verify that one (hoping later today). Haven't done the rock it before you box it, so touch wood there won't be any issues.
Again, as a guy in my 50's, I applaud your enthusiasm for smd conversion. Keep us posted!
I'm finding that I am slowly converting to smd for a lot of amp build stuff, albeit a mixed bag of through hole and smt.
John
When I put a via on top of a SMD pad I'm getting an "Overlap" error in Eagle using the DRU file from OSHPARK. How did you get around it?
John, thanks :) I would also love to see pictures of the amps in SMD/TH hybrids!
EBRA, I posted in your thread about the vias. I create the trace as normal with the vias, then just manually move them into the pads.
Just a little update on a few board designs. First is Blue Lagoon aka Zen drive. I've been up since 5am for work with 3 hours sleep and a 5 mile run when I got home, it's now 2050 so considering how tired I am it's quite an achievement that I've managed it. Gonna tidy the layout up a bit before I send them off to be made.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/e3505981b2f9ba3ae5ad8dc482490e69.jpg)
Next is the AM Radio aka LofoMofo. Love the pedal, it's great for the intro of I Believe In A Thing Called Love, and, err, that's about it. Got it in a 1590B so just a miniaturised version.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/5fdcc30c07e5b5412153d32590531064.jpg)
Goto an issue with Green Envy, I've built 2, the power LEDs don't seem to want to work, and the mix pot doesn't do anything. Gotta play around with them to see what's happening, or should I say what's not happening.
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Just a little update today, the Unicorn Slaying PCBs have just turned up, going to build up as much as I can if I get time today. Already got a paste stencil done for them. Got some bits ordered from Smallbear, but they probably won't be here for the better part of 2 weeks as they need to come across the pond. I'm also missing some of the resistors and caps, they have been ordered so it's just a waiting game now.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160304/11d7ee967c9c789ff68bc0ed33e501a1.jpg)
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Little update, I was getting ready to populate the boards for Unicorn Slaying and noticed that the build doc I used says that the min voltage for the caps is 35V. I always thought it ran at 12V for some reason, so my 16V tantalum caps are no good. The problem with the higher voltage tantalums is that the footprint of them is bigger and won't fit the pads on the board, but I've managed to find some 25V ones that are in the same package size so I'll get them ordered. There isn't any point in populating the boards until they turn up, so this one is now in the ever growing list of on-hold projects.
On the plus side, I've got the enclosures for Snitch and Unicorn Slayed drilled and painted, just need to design some labels for them now, but due to work it's going to probably be next weekend when I get time to do them.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160305/868d131ba237ea29536bd12d266049e0.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160305/13a3007b1578324483b41e1cc44d6128.jpg)
its that powdercoat??, it really looks nice
Thanks! Yep, both powder coated. The red one is one that I got from eBay, and the black one is one that I created myself with the orange flakes. I'm in the process of making all my powders sparkle, just to make them a bit different.
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can you post the link of the red one??, i really dig that one