Probably a somewhat whacky way to start a topic, and my absolute apologies to guys who had probably experienced hearing loss or impediment at some point, but I frequently find myself thinking about this: how come that we still haven't come up with a way to provide complete silence via some gadget or something?
I mean hear me out. To me it looks like something that should be as standard as medicines sold in pharmacies. Imagine a gadget or liquid or whatever, that would give you complete silence, and complete rest. I don't have a newborn baby, that is not why I'm writing this :D but I often am in a situation where I would just love to be able to completely tune out without putting a restraint to someone's freedom, for example, when I get home from work I want to be able to rest and my GF wants to crank some music, and we live in a small apartment, so it's impossible for me to have some rest without reducing her freedom to crank the music up (she relaxes like that, I relax by...well relaxing, in a horizontal position haha). Then there's traffic, of course, then loudness coming from the neighbours (sometimes at 1 or 2 a.m. in an apartment above mine, right) so that frustrates me... and so on and so on. So many situations. So without having to reduce the freedom of others, without smashing the head of my inconsiderate neighbour with a sledgehammer, without...getting frustrated, wouldn't it be easier just to tune out and enjoy your peace?
This took a ranting route although my motivation for writing this hadn't been related to that haha. But seriously, wouldn't that be like the prefect product for a modern day man (and woman, obviously)?
What are the obstacles? I know there are so many smart people here, scientists even, so I would like your take on it. I posted a similar thing to Quora but got nowhere with it. I know that sound is about waves right, and a simple earbud is simply not gonna stop those, reduce maybe, but never entirely. And they can be uncomfortable to wear.
A silly topic if you will, but I'd love your take on it and whether or not you feel your life would be in any way bettered by being able to tune out completely whenever you want. Cheers! :)
We don't hear just by receiving sound waves through the ear canal: We also hear via bone conduction. Your whole body, including your feat, will transmit low frequencies, and your head also resonates well at fairly high frequencies (which I think is one reason we're so sensitive to frquencies in the 2KHz range, but don't quote me on that).
Also, the only thing that produces actual sound proofing is MASS. You need a lot of it to stop low frequencies; less to stop high frequencies, but still some. Ear plugs are better at stopping high frequencies and midrange frequencies than bass frequencies. We continue to hear low frequencies better, though, not just because ear plugs are insufficiently massive but again because the low frequencies are more easily conducted through the bony parts of your body.
Shutting out sound completely, then, isn't simple a matter of blocking sound from reaching your ear drums. You have to either physically isolate yourself from the sound source (whether through distance or blocking mass) or prevent your brain from receiving signals. Most people probably would not want to sever the nerve connections in their heads to make themselves deaf and rely on an electronic device staying on, so the latter is out. Distance is simply impractical in the real world. Isolation chambers are a real thing, but the quiestest one in the world -- quiet enough to drive you insane -- probably still has an ambient sound level of a few decibels. Your own heartbeat will be audible in that space. Also, again, it would drive you insane. You actually don't want complete silence ...
I get where you're coming from but I'm pretty sure it would be very disorienting and uncomfortable for most people. There might be side effects that would also make this unpleasant. For example balance is also closely tied to your heating and inner ear, so it could cause things like severe motion sickness in many people.
To be fair though, I find random background noise pretty relaxing.
Aren't there special headsets you can use to cancel out outside noise via grey noise? Or something?
A better way around it may be to learn some meditation techniques.
From limited experience these kind of techniques can be very powerful for blocking the outside world out and getting some rest.
I was on holiday last week, and waiting in the Airport departure lounge I see (time and time again) how stressed in general people get in airports, and with flying in general. Part of that stress I believe is the sensory overload of being surrounded by a lot of people in close proximity, a lot of noise, and a lot of sh*t going on.
When me and my wife went traveling (with a lot of hanging around at airports and train stations) we both learned how to just 'tune out', block all the noise out, and just relax.
A hammock suspended by bungie cords in a vacuum chamber should work. :)
As I understand it, a white noise generator will do just that. As I am deaf, removing my hearing aides makes it all go away. On the downside, I can't hear anything if I'm asleep, and my alarm clock has to be annoyingly loud.
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You need an isolation tank
(http://therockspa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Floatation-Befloat.jpg)
One of the things on my bucket list is to visit an anechoic chamber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber), which are the quietest places that exist on the planet. Supposedly, the silence is enough to literally drive a person mad. Not sure I believe that but interesting anecdote nonetheless.
A problem is that if the room you are in is quiet enough, you will start to hear the noises your body makes. Not just stuff like a gurgling belly or a heartbeat either but stuff like your bones and muscles creaking and your blood flowing.
Still, pretty cool stuff.
As mentioned above sensory deprivation tanks are becoming more common and some valid research is suggesting positive health benefits.
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Quote from: kgull on February 23, 2016, 12:03:02 AM
One of the things on my bucket list is to visit an anechoic chamber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber), which are the quietest places that exist on the planet. Supposedly, the silence is enough to literally drive a person mad. Not sure I believe that but interesting anecdote nonetheless.
A problem is that if the room you are in is quiet enough, you will start to hear the noises your body makes. Not just stuff like a gurgling belly or a heartbeat either but stuff like your bones and muscles creaking and your blood flowing.
Still, pretty cool stuff.
I suppose it could drive somebody mad, but I don't think it affects most people that way. I regularly work in an anechoic chamber and I can stay in there for hours without issue.
You can hear various bits of your body, though. As well as every bit of tinnitus that you didn't realize you had when masked by normal environmental noise.
Quote from: pickdropper on February 23, 2016, 04:26:35 AM
You can hear various bits of your body, though. As well as every bit of tinnitus that you didn't realize you had when masked by normal environmental noise.
I don't know if this is actually true, but I've been told that some of that sound is actually generated by your nervous system as well.
awesome responses people, enjoying reading through the thread :D
I heard my hair growing once....
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100% deaf in the right ear, collateral damage, along with severing of the nerve responsible for the right side of my face, brain tumor excavation in 2011. (Then nerve reassignment surgery a couple weeks later, Frankenstein hack, on paper i'm a mess but i'm not.)
Apparently being stone deaf on one side results in a real loss of 60-65% hearing... you go a bit mad not hearing well, what was that sound, where'd it come from, strategically place yourself so the good ear's in the conversation or conveniently not. I'd hear something and always needed to identify it and where, now that's a constant struggle. I use a foam earplug in my good ear at night so i can sleep otherwise random noises are going keep awake all night.
You can't really tell where the sounds originate, your brain starts to adapt strategies to sort it out but it comes nowhere near what binaural hearing so easily gives you.
Similarly in the day if i need to focus hard, an Etymotic ear bud with the foam earpiece, an ipod and music, doesn't take much volume to block out the noise distractions.
How 'bout a pair or really nice sealed headphones for your girlfriend?
And protect your hearing!
dave
Quote from: davent on February 23, 2016, 09:40:56 PM
100% deaf in the right ear, collateral damage, along with severing of the nerve responsible for the right side of my face, brain tumor excavation in 2011. (Then nerve reassignment surgery a couple weeks later, Frankenstein hack, on paper i'm a mess but i'm not.)
Apparently being stone deaf on one side results in a real loss of 60-65% hearing... you go a bit mad not hearing well, what was that sound, where'd it come from, strategically place yourself so the good ear's in the conversation or conveniently not. I'd hear something and always needed to identify it and where, now that's a constant struggle. I use a foam earplug in my good ear at night so i can sleep otherwise random noises are going keep awake all night.
You can't really tell where the sounds originate, your brain starts to adapt strategies to sort it out but it comes nowhere near what binaural hearing so easily gives you.
Similarly in the day if i need to focus hard, an Etymotic ear bud with the foam earpiece, an ipod and music, doesn't take much volume to block out the noise distractions.
How 'bout a pair or really nice sealed headphones for your girlfriend?
And protect your hearing!
dave
I have a co-worked with unilateral hearing that can actually localize surprisingly well. He had the loss since birth, so his brain adapted to having only one functioning ear. You may find that localization improves with time.
Hi Dave,
I can remember clearly the date, time, where i was, the first time months after the surgery where a sudden crash, as i walked along the Queen St. East in Toronto, spun me back over my right shoulder and i immediately located the source, a 'wow, how'd i do that?' moment. (I was coming from buying replacement foam earpieces for my Grado's)
Just so many factors in play, how much competing noise, echo'y environment, how familiar am i with where i am, do i recognize what the sound is and where is it most likely that that sound would originate from? The brain's pretty plastic and adaptable, just have to never stop working at it, WIP!
Take care!
dave
Quote from: davent on February 24, 2016, 04:20:30 AM
Hi Dave,
I can remember clearly the date, time, where i was, the first time months after the surgery where a sudden crash, as i walked along the Queen St. East in Toronto, spun me back over my right shoulder and i immediately located the source, a 'wow, how'd i do that?' moment. (I was coming from buying replacement foam earpieces for my Grado's)
Just so many factors in play, how much competing noise, echo'y environment, how familiar am i with where i am, do i recognize what the sound is and where is it most likely that that sound would originate from? The brain's pretty plastic and adaptable, just have to never stop working at it, WIP!
Take care!
dave
Your attitude towards learning will help a lot. The plasticity of the brain is indeed an amazing thing. Best of luck.
If you decide you want technical help, they do make hearing aids that mount in your good ear and pass signals to the non-functioning ear. Some people like them, others don't feel they need them, but it is an option.
Quote from: pickdropper on February 24, 2016, 04:37:36 AMIf you decide you want technical help, they do make hearing aids that mount in your good ear and pass signals to the non-functioning ear.
I actually worked with a guy that used one of these devices. Seemed to work well for him and I honestly didn't notice it for the first couple of months working with him. It was a warehouse job and he was management so I can only assume his ability to localize the source of a noise was pretty good :P
Quote from: kgull on February 24, 2016, 04:44:58 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on February 24, 2016, 04:37:36 AMIf you decide you want technical help, they do make hearing aids that mount in your good ear and pass signals to the non-functioning ear.
I actually worked with a guy that used one of these devices. Seemed to work well for him and I honestly didn't notice it for the first couple of months working with him. It was a warehouse job and he was management so I can only assume his ability to localize the source of a noise was pretty good :P
I'm really curious how localization would work since it's effectively a mono signal. With unilateral hearing, you still get cues from the pinna, but with both ears getting the same clues, I am not sure how the brain would interpret location.
I'm not saying anything definite here. More curious than anything.
I did take part in a localization test a number of years ago where you put foam tips in your ears that had tubes in them. The tubes moved the sound pickup outside the pinna of the ear. Side to side localization was OK, but front back could get screwed up.
Thanks for the offer and info Dave and Kyle, I wasn't aware such technology was out there so have no idea how it might work and whether i even have the necessary leftover bits for it to work with. All in all it's been a far far more fascinating journey then frustrating.
dave
Quote from: pickdropper on February 24, 2016, 05:03:50 AM
Quote from: kgull on February 24, 2016, 04:44:58 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on February 24, 2016, 04:37:36 AMIf you decide you want technical help, they do make hearing aids that mount in your good ear and pass signals to the non-functioning ear.
I actually worked with a guy that used one of these devices. Seemed to work well for him and I honestly didn't notice it for the first couple of months working with him. It was a warehouse job and he was management so I can only assume his ability to localize the source of a noise was pretty good :P
I'm really curious how localization would work since it's effectively a mono signal. With unilateral hearing, you still get cues from the pinna, but with both ears getting the same clues, I am not sure how the brain would interpret location.
I'm not saying anything definite here. More curious than anything.
I did take part in a localization test a number of years ago where you put foam tips in your ears that had tubes in them. The tubes moved the sound pickup outside the pinna of the ear. Side to side localization was OK, but front back could get screwed up.
It was probably more of a result of how long he had worked there TBH. It wasn't really ever something he brought up so IDK. I'm not up on how the tech works, just figured I'd throw in an anecdote.
If I had to guess, the brain probably builds a 'reverb map' of its surrounds and when it gets a 'known signal' it can still somewhat pinpoint where the sound came from. In addition, the structure of the ear acts like a filter and has a pretty big effect on deciding front or back with a normal binaural signal (probably why the tube test came out like it did) so I could see the brain adapting that to an extend. I'm mostly talking out my ass from some random wiki-walks over the years but brain plasticity is a really interesting thing.
Quote from: kgull on February 24, 2016, 05:57:17 AM
brain plasticity is a really interesting thing.
Totally agree.
I have a good book on the subject that I need to re-read as it's been a long time:
http://www.amazon.com/Brain-That-Changes-Itself-Frontiers/dp/0143113100/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1456320134&sr=8-3&keywords=brain+plasticity
The plastic brain indeed.
Davent sorry about your hearing issue but glad things are in a better spot than before.
On a similar note, I am legally blind in my right eye from a retina/macula detachment about 4 years ago. After several eye surgeries to restore, I am left with only some peripheral vision (all central vision is washed out/gone on the eye)
When this first happened the lack of depth perception was really challenging. I felt disoriented and had trouble even walking without tripping over my own feet. Needless to say I was really frustrated, sad, and angry about the whole mess. Being an avid cyclist and outdoor guy, along with a family and the thought of being blind was an emotional torrent.
Because of our great plastic brain, my uni-vision has since adapted very well with the left eye taking over full duty and I can do most things without too much struggle these days (except SMD soldering ::)). I also am not very good at catching a baseball coming at me. Good luck if there are devices that can help you with your hearing.
Wow, the things I take for granted. Sorry to hear about your experiences with hearing and vision loss guys, what a challenge it must be.
I'm blessed to have good eyes and ears, but I can relate to Cortexturizer's first post. Over the last couple years I have (finally) discovered I'm an aural learner, and that sounds are a huge stimulus and often unwanted distraction for me. I live on a noisy busy road with my wife and 2 teenagers in a small house... My eureka personal discovery is... Foam earplugs!
I now have dozens of pairs, I stash them everywhere. I sleep with them, I read with them, I study with them. For years I had all but given up on reading and study, never having a quiet space at home, I could never concentrate for more than a few minutes at a time. I remember being a bonafide grumpy-monster trying to get get everyone to shaddup already while I was studying full-time in 2012.
The biggest win however, is that my sleep is now far more consistent. (He says surfing the net at 4am). My family has gotten used to Dad wearing earplugs sometimes, and I no longer find them uncomfortable like I did at first. Silly as it sounds, I feel like I'm getting a big part my life back since discovering foam earplugs... :-[ :P ;D
Just do what my Dad does and learn selective hearing.
My Mum asks 'John have you put that shelf up yet'.... no answer, doesn't hear.
She asks 'John would you like steak tonight for tea' and he responds rightaway, message received loud and clear.
Quote from: raulduke on February 24, 2016, 03:19:36 PM
Just do what my Dad does and learn selective hearing.
My Mum asks 'John have you put that shelf up yet'.... no answer, doesn't hear.
She asks 'John would you like steak tonight for tea' and he responds rightaway, message received loud and clear.
When Dad was diagnosed with early-onset memory problems, he didn't mind too much. Early retirement, and, in addition to industrial deafness (wear earplugs in engine rooms for supermarket freezers, kids), had the perfect excuse for stuff like this.
"Did you do x?
"I don't know, did you tell me to?"
"Yes, and I know you heard THAT time."
"Well, I didn't remember!"
Pryde thanks and can relate to the mono-vision issues.
The nerve severed during my surgery also carried the signal to the eye which was responsible for the blink reflex which happens every six seconds or so. Mine doesn't blink so to protect the eye have to keep a gel, think vaseline, in it at all times, you can't see through vaseline very well. For soldering, no close up depth perception but i've found that if i find the joint first with the solder there's no problem bringing the iron to the joint, with the tactile feedback you zero right in. Have to wear hats and glasses to protect the eye. an eye patch at night but i can close the eye a year of practice and brain plasticity, close it with my tongue.
Took the nerve from the right side of my tongue grafted in somewhere at the base of the right side of my face where it grew meandered upwards with time, a couple years of physio, face is pretty normal rather then Daliesque. Then had to learn how to eat and speak with half a tongue, so i'm half deaf, dumb and blind... The tongue was the worst crushed and mangled by the molars, quite audible crushing sound to those around, over and over again, it's been awhile.
Was back playing hockey without missing a beat when it started up again 10 months after surgery. Like baseball, playing a sport/competing you seem to tap into another level of functioning and focus that's not there in everyday activities.
Weird as it may sound i really enjoyed the recovery period, get up every day see how hard, how far i push myself, new discoveries, new victories, practice,practice, practice... it was good! Still spend a good chunk of time everyday working at it.
dave
Quote from: davent on February 24, 2016, 05:58:42 PM
Pryde thanks and can relate to the mono-vision issues.
The nerve severed during my surgery also carried the signal to the eye which was responsible for the blink reflex which happens every six seconds or so. Mine doesn't blink so to protect the eye have to keep a gel, think vaseline, in it at all times, you can't see through vaseline very well. For soldering, no close up depth perception but i've found that if i find the joint first with the solder there's no problem bringing the iron to the joint, with the tactile feedback you zero right in. Have to wear hats and glasses to protect the eye. an eye patch at night but i can close the eye a year of practice and brain plasticity, close it with my tongue.
Took the nerve from the right side of my tongue grafted in somewhere at the base of the right side of my face where it grew meandered upwards with time, a couple years of physio, face is pretty normal rather then Daliesque. Then had to learn how to eat and speak with half a tongue, so i'm half deaf, dumb and blind... The tongue was the worst crushed and mangled by the molars, quite audible crushing sound to those around, over and over again, it's been awhile.
Was back playing hockey without missing a beat when it started up again 10 months after surgery. Like baseball, playing a sport/competing you seem to tap into another level of functioning and focus that's not there in everyday activities.
Weird as it may sound i really enjoyed the recovery period, get up every day see how hard, how far i push myself, new discoveries, new victories, practice,practice, practice... it was good! Still spend a good chunk of time everyday working at it.
dave
Wow Dave thanks for sharing, you got real grit my friend.
I know the eye gel thing as I have to keep my right eye slathered with goop all day as well as the eye surgeries inflicted nerve and vascular damage to the cornea. I have re-current abrasions (ulcers) on the cornea surface where it wears away from blinking and wont re-generate fast enough.
Hurts like hell and gooping it up is the only thing you can do to protect the corneal surface.
Soldering for me was impossible at first as well but much better now. I still miss the target once in a while bringing in the solder to the tip/component lead :)
When I signed up for this forum almost a year ago i couldnt imagine that apart from pedals i would learn so much about the lives and experiences of people that i havent even met. Thanks for sharing your experiences good or bad, i really respect & appreciate it.
Ditto on that. Just amazing people all around. I am glad I have started this topic.
Pryde have you been able to resume cycling, i've always been pretty leery about getting back on the bike, plus i was pretty gonzo and don't bounce like i used to.
Postscript, i'd been getting MRI'd every year to monitor my brain state but currently biannual, last check up in January all clear but in 2014 showed another tumour, small 1cm blob (they're are benign). This time they tried a Cyberknife to nuke it. Three knives in Canada and one's a short walk down the street. Three half hour sessions over a couple days, walk over, lie down, walk home. A total non-event that has done the trick for now anyways. Cool thing they let me have my mask that's used to bolt my head to the table while nuking, have to make something out of it, bolt it to the wall like a trophy head.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_6934_zpsbedth37v.jpg)
dave
Wow that is the most awesome mask ever. Super hero or villain?
Yes I road and/or mountain bike several times a week now. I am not as fast or daring as I once was but my perspective has totally changed on the bike in that I am just plain grateful to be pedaling, breathing, and grinding on.
As a matter of fact I did my first trail race last year with mono-vision and plan to do more racing this season. I don't care about placing anymore, it is just about pushing yourself with what you have as you said.
That's great to hear! The hunger never goes away, major adrenaline rush to go out there and give it your all, reclaim the joy, push on, push on!
dave