Has anybody out there ever had weird vibes from pedal haters in the music scene?
It's never been my experience before recently. But wow, some people really don't like guitar pedals.
I went to see a friends band play last week. It was a punk gig. The subject of guitar pedals came up, (not instigated by me), and a couple of people chimed in with their 2 cents worth of pedals are a wank cliche's.
My friend then kindly pointed out that I made pedals, which was followed by a pedal board tap dancing joke and comments about how you don't need pedals if you can play well, etcetera, etcetera.
I kept my mouth shut and laughed it off.
Later on, the last band were setting up. Another freind was in the band. They were a 2 piece, and he had a sweet looking mint condition Super Fuzz pedal hooked up to a bass and guitar amp.
A couple of people from the previous bands were writing off my friend for his 2 amp set up, fancy fuzz pedal, and how 2 piece bands were a 'Hipster' thing.
Again I kept my mouth shut, but by that point I was wondering why do I bother going to my punk friends gigs?
So many haters, hating on each others bands, music, gear, whatever, and so many posers that I felt like I'd forgotten to get dressed up for a costume party.
But the worst thing was, I'm there to support friends band who plays music I otherwise wouldn't listen to.
I'm politely pretending I like the music, and being written off by them just because I like and make pedals.
I don't like to stereotype, but it seems to be a vibe you only hear from metal and punk scenes.
My rock band and accoustic music freinds are supportive and interested, or at least polite about what I do.
Has anybody else had similar 'hipster' hater vibes for being into guitar pedals?
The worst you get in the rock scene is the occasional gentle ribbing from AC/DC fans. Everyone I've met at gearfests were always quite admiring of my DIY jobbies. (One delay fan especially raved about the Multiplex, and how it was one of the best sounding tape-y delays he'd heard.)
Next time you see them, point out that one of the virtuoso performers of the past didn't even like ELECTRIC guitar, let alone pedals! (Segovia, specifically.)
Is there any truth to an old story I heard that Johnny Cash threaded an American money note through his guitar strings to get a certain sound? If so, ask them if that is black heresy too :)
Or taking razor blades to your speaker cones.
Actually, now that I think about it, the attitude from the punks is starting to remind me about a recent thread that mentioned how reactionary and conservative some flamenco players were.
Quote from: alanp on March 22, 2016, 08:05:34 AM
The worst you get in the rock scene is the occasional gentle ribbing from AC/DC fans. Everyone I've met at gearfests were always quite admiring of my DIY jobbies. (One delay fan especially raved about the Multiplex, and how it was one of the best sounding tape-y delays he'd heard.)
Actually, now that I think about it, the attitude from the punks is starting to remind me about a recent thread that mentioned how reactionary and conservative some flamenco players were.
Yeah I've seen your work Alan and it is impressively techy and complicated. It's amazing that you even fit it all in let alone get them working.
And yeah it's funny that Flamenco 'Jazz' or Punk musicians, who see themselves as progressive or non conformist, can be so stunted by tradition.
There's usually no mind more closed off then the one that thinks of itself as progressive or non conformist. If you think you know the truth it doesn't tend to make you very open minded to hear the view points of those who think differently. It's also freaking hilarious to hear punk musicians talk about playing instruments very well. Isn't the very epitome of punk rock the idea that you don't need to play your instrument very well?
I like how they are pigeon holing what punk is. I think it makes them sound like fools. Punk started out as being about individuality, about things not having to be done specific ways. There is some really fantastic punk, but I just can't get into a lot of it.
It seems like some folks put everything down that's not what they perceive themselves to be because it makes them feel superior. Probably not worth stressing over.
Quote from: pickdropper on March 22, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
It seems like some folks put everything down that's not what they perceive themselves to be because it makes them feel superior. Probably not worth stressing over.
Yeah! Down with the haters! ;)
I've certainly gone through many different phases in my ideas about gear. Most of them based on ignorance. They probably don't understand what happens in those magic boxes they plug into. They should really go punk and remove the gain stages and eq circuits in their amps, since that is essentially what most common pedals are doing.
Generally people fear and hate on what they do not understand. There is a deeper more rooted cause if you want to delve in to it. Generally I've found that people that can't afford off the shelf pedals will diss them, because they can't afford them. When you get in to a group of like minded individuals, it feeds the monster. I constantly tell my youngest son that just because you don't have or come from money, you don't have to act like it, your just every bit as good as those people. You don't need pedals, but it opens up an new world of creativity if you have access to them. Just my two ohms.
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I've found myself being that guy when I go to shows ... you get that ear where you're used to hearing analog effects through quality tube amps and to hear some guy plug in the multi-fx unit into his solid state amp (added to some drinking) and I'll slip up and hate for no good reason. I know my truth.
I have to say, I've had the opposite. I've been at parties before where friends are talking and they will mention to someone I haven't meet before "Paul makes Pedals". And then the questions start...They are enthusiastic to learn more, but i just want to chat and let my hair (or lack of) down.
I think Jimilee might be on to something. Never thought to much about "I can't afford it, so I will hate it" theory but I think it has merit. I really don't understand why some people are so critical of pedal users. I believe they bring a great deal of musical initiative and creativity into your playing. If you actually think about the time you spend getting everything set up to make that "sweet sound" it adds up. It's not just throwing a couple of pedals on a board and stomping them. It's really an art to get them to sound right IMO.
A lot of musicians I know have very rigid ideas about how things should be done or what sounds good. I think things are dismissed by a lot of people not because of quality, but because so many people think that if it doesn't sound like the music they already love then it automatically has no merit. I know I've been guilty of this myself.
I know a few guys that are downright wizards with pedals. Likewise there are plenty of guys that just don't need or want them for what they do. It's all just about picking your tools and learning how to use them to make what you want.
To me its all about self expression. If you suck and like it who cares? If your awesome and you like it and others dont, who cares? Everyone has there own opinions and thats fine but all that really matters is what you think. I love building pedals and using them and could care less what anyone thinks. To me use whatever pedals you want in tandom to get your sound go for it.
I will say the only thing that irks me is the damn people who say they can hear a diff using an energizer or a copper top. If you say can here that I'm calling bullsh@&. Either I'm a deaf idiot (maybe?) or I just need to quit, lol.
Wait, you went to a punk gig and they said, "you don't need pedals if you can play well".
Since when was the prime focus of punk music playing well? Maybe they should switch to progressive jazz.
Yeah, punk rockers talking about playing well does seem a little funny to me.
Playing well and using effects aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, there are plenty of crappy guitarists that rely on the wooshes and crunches and bleep-bloops of effects to cover bad playing, just as there are bad players that don't use effects and good players who use effects poorly.
I would love to be considered a guitarist that is good enough to not use pedals, but I would still use pedals to fully express the sonic palette founded by general guitar aptitude. I have a friend who is a stellar musician; he has chops for days on the guitar, AND he has a couple massive pedal boards with several of the freaky Electro-Harmonix and Earthquaker Devices pedals and his guitar synth pickup at his disposal. He routes those pedals in all sorts of crazy ways to build ambient soundscapes and otherworldly solo tones. Using pedals effectively is as much of an art as guitar licks.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.
Quote from: Muadzin on March 22, 2016, 11:06:39 AM
There's usually no mind more closed off then the one that thinks of itself as progressive or non conformist. If you think you know the truth it doesn't tend to make you very open minded to hear the view points of those who think differently.
Yep, some people are just way too set in their ways and too concerned with fitting in with all of the other individuals.
Quote from: Martan on March 22, 2016, 02:37:25 PM
They should really go punk and remove the gain stages and eq circuits in their amps, since that is essentially what most common pedals are doing.
Spot on. Is distortion not a guitar effect if you don't put it in a box with a footswitch?
Actually, forget guitar amps and all that hipster electricity stuff, lets sing Kumbaya.
Quote from: lars on March 23, 2016, 05:20:31 AM
Since when was the prime focus of punk music playing well?
As much as I love some punk music, if you're a punk who's concerned with playing well, you're missing the point. In fact I think you've discovered exactly where punk went wrong. Ever since 'Pop Punk', or what I prefer to think of as Brat Rock, they've been way too concerned with melody and catchy power chord progressions. You might as well just play One Direction albums through a distortion pedal.
Quote from: Matmosphere on March 22, 2016, 11:48:41 AM
There is some really fantastic punk, but I just can't get into a lot of it.
I couldn't agree more. I still love cranking Fugazi and Crass every now and then. They're both great examples of how progressive punk music can be.
It's not punk, but the Metal Evolution episode on Grunge had an interesting quote from an interview -- "The musicianship was... rudimentary is the wrong term, it was /functional./"
Mind you, in the NWOBHM interviews, pretty much all of the metal musos were VERY emphatic that they were nothing to do with punk, THEY could play!
What bothers me most about the OP is that these wankers were putting you down for what you do. They can think what they want about pedals and it's cool. But to attempt to embarrass you and put down what you do is a different discussion altogether. You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.
Personal fav's of guitarists who apparently aren't very good according to their standards. We all should be so shitty 8)
Gilmour
Hendrix
Trower
Bonamassa
Haynes
Recently I heard an interview with Gilmour from the live at Pompeii soundtrack. He kinda addressed this specifically. He said you still have to hear it in your head first. Effects are just tools to make it happen just like your guitar.
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Musicians shouldn't diss each other for using X brand of guitar, or Y brand of amps, for using pedals, for not using pedals, for playing whatever kinds of music, or not. Musicians should stick together, for the enemy is not each other, it's the DJ. DJ's are taking away good paying gigs from musicians and DJ's have convinced the general public that they are musicians as well. That going to a venue where some DJ Is playing music is akin to going to an actual concert. The DJ, not each other, that is our common enemy!
Quote from: Muadzin on March 23, 2016, 03:51:18 PM
Musicians shouldn't diss each other for using X brand of guitar, or Y brand of amps, for using pedals, for not using pedals, for playing whatever kinds of music, or not. Musicians should stick together, for the enemy is not each other, it's the DJ. DJ's are taking away good paying gigs from musicians and DJ's have convinced the general public that they are musicians as well. That going to a venue where some DJ Is playing music is akin to going to an actual concert. The DJ, not each other, that is our common enemy!
Truth, we lost a few regular gigs because of this.
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http://inthemix.junkee.com/deadmau5-takes-aim-at-fcking-cd-playing-dipshit-djs/28906 (http://inthemix.junkee.com/deadmau5-takes-aim-at-fcking-cd-playing-dipshit-djs/28906)
Even Deadmau5 (a nonguitarist electronic music dude, although Reznor was on one of his newer albums) has ranted about morons who just play CDs.
My take on it is that a good entertainer is a good entertainer, regardless of whether he's using 303's and SH-1's, a Gibson and a Fender, or whether he's just making animals out of balloons (and holding captive the attention of everyone in the room.)
Not to go off topic but, is there any 303 and 606 DIY projects out there? I've always wanted a drumatrix. I can't program non step drum machines to save my life.
Quote from: TNblueshawk on March 23, 2016, 02:45:14 PM
You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.
Yep. Unfortunately I wont be supporting my friends band again. It's a shame because my friend is supportive of what I do but his bandmates are dicks. I was one of about 10 people watching the band. There was me, the 2 friends I brought, and about 7 wag's and guys from the next band.
Their next audience will be about 30% smaller.
Quote from: Mojo Fandangle on March 24, 2016, 02:49:22 AM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on March 23, 2016, 02:45:14 PM
You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.
Yep. Unfortunately I wont be supporting my friends band again. It's a shame because my friend is supportive of what I do but his bandmates are dicks. I was one of about 10 people watching the band. There was me, the 2 friends I brought, and about 7 wag's and guys from the next band.
Their next audience will be about 30% smaller.
I remember playing those gigs when I was in a punk band. It was more of a friends gathering then anything. Still had a lot of fun, good practice too. We'd play a gig with 200+ people and we would get stage freight "these people are here to see...us...?" Didn't happen very often though lol
Technique also wasn't necessarily the order of the day. We were more focused on speed and rhythm. But that was a long time ago, mid to late 90's...I have no idea what modern punk sounds like...
Putting down somebody else for using a tool to achieve a given goal is very strange. I have respect for minimalist guitar playing, I do it sometimes myself, guitar into amp, focus on my playing, its a nice break from effects. I also have respect for players that use a lot of effects. Concentrating on your playing and controlling an array of effects and effect timing etc would be tricky.
I think thats the missing ingredient here fandangle, respect :)
Quote from: chromesphere on March 24, 2016, 03:12:01 AM
Quote from: Mojo Fandangle on March 24, 2016, 02:49:22 AM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on March 23, 2016, 02:45:14 PM
You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.
I think thats the missing ingredient here fandangle, respect :)
Agreed. Mutual respect insn't much to expect from people who's music you've gone out of you way to support.
I used to play in a semi-punk band when I was younger too, but I think I just ran out of angst by the time I was 20.
I agree that non technical playing is just as entertaining as the techy stuff, probably more so. Most of my favourite guitarists are rough and raw players like Cobain, Jamie Hince, and Omar Rodriguez
Slightly off-topic, but, like, has everyone implying that playing badly is an integral part of punk never listened to the Dead Kennedys or the Damned or the Buzzcocks, or what?
Saying "this kind of music is always played badly" isn't any different from saying "anyone who uses pedals can't play well". Respect is a two-way street, and we can't rail against one false stereotype while propping up another one. The dudes Mojo Fandangle ran into at his friends' gig were undoubtedly jerks, but don't let a few jerks make you write off an entire genre of music.
That's a good point Lincoln, I agree. There is no way I could play the stuff I used to when I was sub 20. It was fast and energetic. I don't think I could last 45 mins these days playing stuff like that. I also seemed to have had palm muting patterns done to a fine art, which I have forgotten in my old age. Anyway, "technical" for me doesn't mean enjoyable. In fact, quite the opposite. That's just my personal preference though.
There are indeed some fine musicians from the punk and post-punk era... This Heat, Wire, Joy Division, Public Image Ltd, Crass... These bands also knew what they were doing with effects and studio technology. Sounds like the jerks in the band need to broaden their horizons