madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => Tech Help - Projects Page => Topic started by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 03:41:07 AM

Title: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 03:41:07 AM
I just fired up my Naught Fish for the first time and sadly, there is only a loud motorboating sound when the pedal is engaged. The sound seems to change a bit if I turn the knobs or flip the switches, but there isn't any guitar sounds. I put the socket in backwards for IC1, but the chip is in the correct way. I didn't think that mattered- does it? 
Thanks,
Brad
Here are the IC numbers:
IC 1
1) 0
2) 0
3) 0
4)8.41
5)0
6)0
7)0
8)8.83

IC 2
1).49
2)0
3)0
4)8.41
5)3.31
6)3.55
7)3.47
8)8.83

IC 3
1)0
2)0
3)0
4)8.41
5)0
6)0
7)0
8)8.83

IC 4
1)1.35
2)4.80
3)0
4)3.79
5)8.40
6)2.56
7)1.44
8)8.83
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/bscur/cfedda79-2c99-4852-a3ec-491f822f795a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bscur/media/cfedda79-2c99-4852-a3ec-491f822f795a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 18, 2016, 04:38:23 AM
are IC4 pins 4 and 5 positive or negative?
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 18, 2016, 04:40:26 AM
also, if you are testing outside a box, make sure your input and output jacks are grounded.  if you follow the build doc, your output may need to be grounded
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 04:46:32 AM
Thanks. I have a little test box that I screw the jacks into for grounding. Both IC4 4 and 5 are positive.
Thanks
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: drolo on April 18, 2016, 09:15:48 AM
IC4 pin 5 should be negative.
(if we are referring to the schematic on this build doc: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/NaughtyFish/NaughtyFish2015.pdf)
This is also the negative voltage that should be on pin 4 of the other IC's
Could you double check if you have measured the voltage correctly? Otherwise check if you have the correct IC in there.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 02:01:06 PM
Hi,
I have a LT1054CP chip in at number 4.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
I have a 1n5242 as the 12v zener diode. Just checking that that is correct. The motorboat sound speeds up and slows down turning the knobs and goes away momentarily when I strum the guitar (although no guitar sounds come through).
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 18, 2016, 04:44:43 PM
If using LT1054, you need to lift pin 1.  It can't be connected to pin 8 like the others.  Did you lift pin 1?
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 06:41:30 PM
Hi,
No, I didn't lift any pins. I haven't done that before. Do I just clip off the first pin of the IC? I don't think the docs mentioned that. Thanks for the advice and let me know the best way to lift the pin.
Thanks,
Brad
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 06:45:13 PM
Also, is there a different IC that would work instead of LT1054 for IC4 and wouldn't require lifting any pins?
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on April 18, 2016, 10:12:12 PM
Did you ground the sleeve of the output jack? For some reason Madbean never puts it in the wiring but I've had to do it every time or I just get a lot of noise.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 10:20:15 PM
I added the extra ground in and I tried lifting the trace of pin #1 and it had the same sound.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on April 18, 2016, 10:35:39 PM
There is definitely something wrong with IC1 and IC3. You should have some type of voltage on those other pins (if I'm looking at the schematic right).

Edit: except for pin 3 and 5 on ic3, which are going to ground
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Well, now I've got guitar sounds coming through and when I play it there is some effect. However, if I stop and let it sit there is a loud buzzing. I play and the buzzing stops. The effect is fairly erratic. sometimes there is an extended high pitched declining whining sound kind of like the old funky song "You Dropped the Bomb on Me". Could the vactrols be bad? Is it a grounding issue? I'll re-check the IC1 and IC3. Maybe they are different with the sound coming through.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 18, 2016, 11:03:25 PM
IC1 and IC3 are the same
1)0
2)0
3)0
4)8.4
5)0
6)0
7)0 (-.01 IC3)
8 ) -8.82
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: Martan on April 19, 2016, 12:59:14 AM
Make sure you are reading the pins in  the right order. Your  voltages are flipped on ic 1 and 3 compared to the build doc. Either you are reading the pins in the wrong order, your ic is in backwards, or something in your power section is backwards . The other pins measure a few mV on mine and in the build doc, but not zero
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 19, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Hi,
The build doc has the wiring for the ground different than most of the Madbean pedals. It shows the ground on the middle left lug instead of the bottom left lug. I wired it like this, is that correct? I've double checked and everything seems to be put in with the correct polarity.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/bscur/Capture.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bscur/media/Capture.png.html)

Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 19, 2016, 02:29:31 AM
IC4 Pin 1 is the pad that is square.  If you socketed it, just remove the IC and bend that pin upwards so it will not go in the socket, then put the IC back in.  IC numbering goes from the end of hte IC that has the half moon indention, when that is the top, pin 1 is on the left, pin 2 below that, then wehen you get to the bottom, you keep going around counterclockwise so the bottom right most pin is pin 5, 6, and 7 going up the right side.  If there is no half mood indention, then it is marked with a circle.

No need to break any traces on the board.  Did you do that?  If so, tell us where you did that, if you had the numbering off, this could be an issue.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 19, 2016, 02:35:09 AM
Thanks. I got the correct numbering and lifted the #1 pin on IC#4. I get guitar sounds and sometimes an effect. If I play around with the switches there is at times a huge low zipper sound. Sometimes there is an envelope filter effect. Hitting the deepest e note induces the buzzing. The chips are Texas Instruments from Mouser, so I think they are good.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 19, 2016, 02:44:03 AM
OK, cool.  I didn't read all the previous.  Not sure what to look for next, but reflow all the joints, check for reversed component positions, etc.....   
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: bscur on April 19, 2016, 03:33:53 AM
Oops. Okay, I noticed the trimpot seemed off, so I extended the leads on the trimpot so it could fit the 1 to the 1 and not just fit the triangle shape. That seems to have been the biggest problem. Do the vactrols control different settings? I still get a low buzz on one of the Lp/HP/BP settings. Otherwise, things seem much better. Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 19, 2016, 03:53:15 AM
vactrols are always engaged.  they effect the filter, so the envelope modulation is running through them.  did you get a DPDT on on on switch for the hp/bp/lp filter?  Three position, right?  If it is on off on, then that could be an issue.  just thinking out loud.  i think there are two types of on on on.  is it the center position that buzzes?  that info may help trace to your problem. 
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: mcasemo on April 19, 2016, 03:56:33 AM
well i guess on vac vs the other could be engaged based on hp/bp/lp, actually.  i'm mucking with this circuit as well, but have not traced the hp/bp/lp thorugh the filters to understand it yet.  glads its improving otherwise.
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: fredwreck on April 23, 2016, 06:48:36 PM
I was having similar problems with my Naughty Fish... this is the on-on-on switch I ordered from mouser.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/7211SYCQE/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujRiaoO1EQ%2fAGeNxHWzQ1rYgv2OL3oJPxZUA623XR5GMg%3d%3d

everyones been saying there are two different types of ON On ON switches, but I havent figured out what the two types are.  Anyone have any idea?
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: FuzzTony on May 05, 2016, 04:31:31 AM
The DPDT on-on-on difference is in the middle position, which pins are connected.  This has been driving me crazy as well.   Most vendors do not specify, and the ones that do include a diagram (except SB) are almost impossible to tell if the POV are the pins looking down at the switch from above, or looking up at the pins/lugs from below, know what I mean?

I like to support SmallBear, but all I need right now is the switch, and ordering just that will wind up costing me about $20 Canadian after shipping.

Anyone have a verified alternate source that might be a little more reasonable?
Title: Re: Naughty Fish makes a motorboating sound
Post by: okeephoss on May 21, 2016, 04:55:10 PM
hi... just wondrering if you found a cure.  I'm experiencing the same issues.  thanks.