I'm genuinely shocked and stunned. I expected it to be close, but not to go the way it's gone.
Bit dumbstruck at this and what it might mean for the future.
It's sad & scary Juan. And I don't speak only as a European living in UK.
If the Parliament finally decides to agree with the referendum (which is not legally binding), there are going to be major consequences (research programs, NHS, banking...).
David Cameron just resigned, let's see who is brave enough to trigger article 50.
One thing that bugs me is the kind of people that are gaining power with the referendum. Mr. Nigel Farage is asking now for a 'domino effect' in Europe...
My guess is that the EU is going to be preaching hard, in it's remaining member states.
If the new PM (or PM's, if it drags) refuses or drags his heels on Article 50, then I can see UKIP making hay of this.
Change is scary. What I always found hardest to believe in Star Trek or Mass Effect wasn't space magic like FTL travel or aliens, it was the base concept that humanity could agree on bloody ANYTHING long enough to form a parliament governing ALL of humanity!
I mean, the only reason the Imperium of Man could pull it off was firstly because of the constant xeno threat, and two, their military, commissars, and the Imperial Cult. And even then, I seem to recall mentions of worlds constantly trying to break away.
Farage is already back pedalling on the 'we could spend £350m a week on the NHS' bullshit and we'll have an unelected right winger in no 10 by October, dark times ahead >:(
A sad day, my friends. And this is why referendums are bad. And why direct democracy had a bad rep for 2000 years after what happened in classical Athens. People are swayed by emotions first, actual arguments somewhere last.
Edit:
I just read that Scotland voted in favor of remaining, I wouldn't be surprised if the SNP would seize upon this to hold another independence referendum.
Quote from: alanp on June 24, 2016, 08:57:00 AMChange is scary. What I always found hardest to believe in Star Trek or Mass Effect wasn't space magic like FTL travel or aliens, it was the base concept that humanity could agree on bloody ANYTHING long enough to form a parliament governing ALL of humanity!
I mean, the only reason the Imperium of Man could pull it off was firstly because of the constant xeno threat, and two, their military, commissars, and the Imperial Cult. And even then, I seem to recall mentions of worlds constantly trying to break away.
I put that down, and indeed most decisions down to most human's propensity towards greed and power. Willing to lie and connive to further their own agendas at the expense of others. Which pretty much describes all the bullshit that's surrounded the 'facts' in this referendum.
That said, ill advised or not, the people have spoken, this is a democracy, and we'll now have to live with the decision. Interesting times ahead!
It'll be very interesting to see what happens but as I'm originally from N Ireland I've applied for an Irish passport just in case. I'll admit I'm very concerned by Nigel Farage's policies I really don't think they stand up to close scrutiny. As Juan said though it's a democracy and all we can do is hope it doesn't negatively affect the pound long term.
:(
I am also shocked. The E.U. gives me hope that many different cultures can set aside their differences and work together. I know no one really knows exactly what will happen, but a conscious decision to stop working together with one's neighbors rarely has a good outcome.
EDIT: I just saw in the BBC summary that it has to be ratified by Parliament. Looks like referendums aren't actually legally binding. This may end up being a pointless exercise in polling.
Agree with you guys here. It's going to be interesting to see what happens now.
Coincidently, with Cameron stepping down we've got a guy that we'd be happy to send your way. Last I heard he was already in Scotland trying to drum up support for his golf course there. Maybe he'll come over to take charge for a while and help out. God knows he's done more than enough here in the states.
Actually, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
What is going on these days.
I was quite surprised too. Not only is change scary, but the thought of actually having to choose to change is scary.
Last year I thought we had it bad here when JT got elected, but with the pending division of the EU, either Hilary or the Don in the US, maybe we don't have it that bad (he says while gnashing his teeth).
Quote from: midwayfair on June 24, 2016, 01:06:31 PM
:(
I am also shocked. The E.U. gives me hope that many different cultures can set aside their differences and work together. I know no one really knows exactly what will happen, but a conscious decision to stop working together with one's neighbors rarely has a good outcome.
EDIT: I just saw in the BBC summary that it has to be ratified by Parliament. Looks like referendums aren't actually legally binding. This may end up being a pointless exercise in polling.
Referendums aren't legally binding in most places where there's Parliamentary sovereignty as far as I understand. There was a referendum in Spain in 1986 to leave the NATO and it went on with 52.5% of the votes (actually a little bit more, 52.5% of the population voted to leave, 39% to leave and the rest either null vote or abstention).
Guess what: we never left.
not going to lie, my first thought was the much more favorable exchange rate ... sorry not sorry
Quote from: micromegas on June 24, 2016, 07:42:28 AM
It's sad & scary Juan. And I don't speak only as a European living in UK.
If the Parliament finally decides to agree with the referendum (which is not legally binding), there are going to be major consequences (research programs, NHS, banking...).
David Cameron just resigned, let's see who is brave enough to trigger article 50.
One thing that bugs me is the kind of people that are gaining power with the referendum. Mr. Nigel Farage is asking now for a 'domino effect' in Europe...
Yep, as an outsider, it seemed to me that those campaigning hardest to leave were those that stood to gain political power if the vote went their way (e.g. Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage). Worse yet, they carried the day by playing to the basest emotions of the electorate (jingoism, xenophobia, faux libertarianism) rather than believable arguments of post-Brexit impacts on the lives of voters.
Poor pro-Remain Scotland is now in a real damned-if-you-do, etc. scenario re: triggering another independence referendum that could see them choosing between the UK and EU.
The only positive thing that I've seen so far were some very nice shots of SamCam at the PM's resignation! ;)
This is causing my stocks to fall damnit.
Quote from: thesmokingman on June 24, 2016, 03:15:04 PM
not going to lie, my first thought was the much more favorable exchange rate ... sorry not sorry
Fuzz Dog & Peak Electronics here I come...
Quote from: jtaormina on June 24, 2016, 05:32:09 PM
This is causing my stocks to fall damnit.
It's pretty much making all stocks fall, and Europe was supposed to be the safe place to invest. I'm sure it'll bounce back at some point but it looks like it could be a while depending on what happens next and how this whole thing is managed. Oh well, thats all a long game anyway, not much we can do right now other than wait.
Quote from: thesmokingman on June 24, 2016, 03:15:04 PM
not going to lie, my first thought was the much more favorable exchange rate
I have to admit that it almost made me wish we had booked a vacation in the UK instead of Montreal for next week. Europe just looked to expensive when we were planning.
Not to mention that there will probably be much more serious repercussions from this for people who in the UK or the UN in general than just stock market fluctuations.
UK is no longer the world's 5th largest (probably) economy after the pound plunges.
Congratulations France.
Sheesh the freaking world is going nuts. So the EU crumbles and Donald is president of the united states.... Or Hillary is president of the united states and the EU doesn't crumble or it does. How hard is it to get a passport to Mars?
Or is this really Mars and the Vapor Trails contain drugs that make us think it's Earth?
https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/calling-parliament-take-second-look-eu-referendum#.V3EXA_wLWDM.facebook
Devastating read.
Quote from: Cortexturizer on June 27, 2016, 12:16:29 PM
https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/calling-parliament-take-second-look-eu-referendum#.V3EXA_wLWDM.facebook
Devastating read.
Politicians to show a cool level head and real leadership? Why not ask for end to world hunger and for world peace as well? The whole reason we had to go through this referendum (or any other for that matter) is because politicians lacked the balls to do what they were elected to do and instead passed the buck on to the electorate. Made worse because there are a bunch of political arsonists running amok. Sadly enough here on the continent as well.
As usual we are failing to head the lessons of the past. Like the former Yugoslavia, where political opportunists were also way too willing to throw a burning torch into the political powderkeg for their own lust for power and where the former parts are nowadays nowhere near what they could have been as a whole.
Well color / colour me stunned. I was soooooo close to trading long on the Euro because I thought for sure they would vote to stay. Glad I didn't.
Quote from: Muadzin on June 27, 2016, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Cortexturizer on June 27, 2016, 12:16:29 PM
https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/calling-parliament-take-second-look-eu-referendum#.V3EXA_wLWDM.facebook
Devastating read.
Politicians to show a cool level head and real leadership? Why not ask for end to world hunger and for world peace as well? The whole reason we had to go through this referendum (or any other for that matter) is because politicians lacked the balls to do what they were elected to do and instead passed the buck on to the electorate. Made worse because there are a bunch of political arsonists running amok. Sadly enough here on the continent as well.
As usual we are failing to head the lessons of the past. Like the former Yugoslavia, where political opportunists were also way too willing to throw a burning torch into the political powderkeg for their own lust for power and where the former parts are nowadays nowhere near what they could have been as a whole.
They're all doing a runner, but it's ok, they all have their off-shore tax-free savings to rely on.
It's a fucking bloodbath.
It was all points scoring and political manoeuvring. The 'winners', now suddenly surprised they've won and within days been shown that they made up most of the reasons people voted out for. They look like rabbits caught in the headlights. Our fearless elected leader, having initiated this process in the first place has decided, fuck this, I'm out and left us in the shit. The opposition party has been decimated. We have no leadership at all right now.
All the while we have an uncertain future, a decision has been made and no-one dares act on it and be known as the person who fucked the EU and divided Great Britain (There will be a Scottish referendum at the very least and it might even kick off things in Northern Ireland once again). Which is Cameron, lets face it. But the coward doesn't have the balls to pull the pin on the grenade he's left in his wake.
We're fucked... ...and they'll have trouble blaming the migrants and the EU from this point forth given that's what both their campaigns were based on. Lies and more lies. Who's going to be the scapegoat now when it all goes to shit after their bluff was not only called, they've been left looking like the cowardly lying manipulative bastards they really are.
America learn from this, pay attention and DO NOT let that psycho Trump in. If you want to see what you'd be letting yourself in for, take a look at Britain. It ain't pretty that's for sure.
FWIW I voted remain for reasons I've said before. However it was put to a vote and the majority who were arsed to vote, voted out. This is the essence of a democracy and I accept that. We just need to get on with it for better or for worse. There has to be consequences or no one learns. I think Britain is pretty fucked for the near future at least, but what's done is done.
Quote from: juansolo on June 27, 2016, 09:12:48 PM
They're all doing a runner, but it's ok, they all have their off-shore tax-free savings to rely on.
It's a fucking bloodbath.
It was all points scoring and political manoeuvring. The 'winners', now suddenly surprised they've won and within days been shown that they made up most of the reasons people voted out for. They look like rabbits caught in the headlights. Our fearless elected leader, having initiated this process in the first place has decided, fuck this, I'm out and left us in the shit. The opposition party has been decimated. We have no leadership at all right now.
All the while we have an uncertain future, a decision has been made and no-one dares act on it and be known as the person who fucked the EU and divided Great Britain (There will be a Scottish referendum at the very least and it might even kick off things in Northern Ireland once again). Which is Cameron, lets face it. But the coward doesn't have the balls to pull the pin on the grenade he's left in his wake.
We're fucked... ...and they'll have trouble blaming the migrants and the EU from this point forth given that's what both their campaigns were based on. Lies and more lies. Who's going to be the scapegoat now when it all goes to shit after their bluff was not only called, they've been left looking like the cowardly lying manipulative bastards they really are.
America learn from this, pay attention and DO NOT let that psycho Trump in. If you want to see what you'd be letting yourself in for, take a look at Britain. It ain't pretty that's for sure.
FWIW I voted remain for reasons I've said before. However it was put to a vote and the majority who were arsed to vote, voted out. This is the essence of a democracy and I accept that. We just need to get on with it for better or for worse. There has to be consequences or no one learns. I think Britain is pretty fucked for the near future at least, but what's done is done.
I agree with every single word of this I just want the whole thing to be over. England is not a very nice to place to be right now. My wife was asked yesterday where she was from because 'she looks foreign'! I mean WTF! She's lived in the UK for 11 years now and we've never had any trouble until now the whole thing has brought all the crazy bastards out of the woodwork.
Hopefully we won't have to worry much about Trump. He's really his own worst enemy at this point. Every time he opens his mouth he just gets himself in more trouble. He has shown recently that he is completely out of his depth trying to ruin a political campaign. All the polling shows him losing to Clinton. To top everything off most of the party officials say they support him, but are very uncomfortable with a lot of what he says.
That's not to say he has no support, but it's going to be very difficult for him to find much new support if he doesn't change his tone quiet a bit. Basically he'd have to stop acting at all like Donald Trump, and I don't think that's possible for him. There are several Republican senators who are very openly against him. I doubt anyone with any credibility will run as his vice presidential candidate.
I think the Republican party leadership is silently waiting for him to loose so they can try top pick up the pieces as best they can. The Republican party was already in rough shape and this just makes it look worse. I'm pretty sure that Trump winning, while it would be bad news all around, would be a disaster for the Republican party that would take decades to recover from. And I'm pretty sure the party leadership knows it.
From what I've heard, people voting for either Trump or Clinton, are chiefly voting to stop the other candidate, not because they LIKE Trump or Clinton.
In their position, I'd vote for the USAian equivalent of the Monster Raging Loony Party.
There are plenty of people that like Clinton just fine. Just doesn't make a good headline, "people think candidate is pretty solid" doesn't make good copy.
Quote from: Adam_MD on June 27, 2016, 10:20:50 PMI agree with every single word of this I just want the whole thing to be over. England is not a very nice to place to be right now. My wife was asked yesterday where she was from because 'she looks foreign'! I mean WTF! She's lived in the UK for 11 years now and we've never had any trouble until now the whole thing has brought all the crazy bastards out of the woodwork.
This is probably the most insidious part of the whole affair. Every country has bigoted, narrow-minded fools in it. Ours have just been empowered into thinking that they're now the majority. I'm not particularly proud to be British right now.
Quote from: Matmosphere on June 27, 2016, 11:42:29 PMAll the polling shows him losing to Clinton.
All our polls said we'd remain in the UK. Polls are just a prediction and can lead to complacency.
I'm also now surprised there is no serious talk of a "do-over" vote. I would have thought cooler heads would have come to the front by now and made the case for rethinking the vote.
Quote from: culturejam on June 28, 2016, 02:59:08 PM
I'm also now surprised there is no serious talk of a "do-over" vote. I would have thought cooler heads would have come to the front by now and made the case for rethinking the vote.
You massively overestimate our politicians. They're all in damage limitation mode, ie, their own damage limitation. The Conservatives are essentially leaderless and directionless, the labour party have decided to use this as an opportunity to get rid of their leader (they mostly don't like him) by petty in-fighting.
Leaving the 'leave campaign' that consists of some of the vilest most hated politicians in the system. Gove did his level best to destroy education with a view to privatising it (ie break it so bad he can sell it to his mates or companies that he has a vested interest in). Hunt who tried to do the same with the NHS. Farage who's possibly the biggest racist on the planet and only slightly more level headed (slightly) than Trump. Finally Boris Johnson, who's an utter buffoon. All of them have been proven to be liars and manipulators that have purely been out to further their own agenda's rather than working for the good of the country.
Nope, the leave vote has left us in more than a bit of a state. No one is calming it, hence our economy will likely collapse as the notoriously twitchy business world reacts to the lack of control.
The losers will of course be the people without off-shore savings funds. The ones who do pay their taxes. Sadly people were swung by big sweeping statements like 'let's invest the 350m a week from the EU back in the NHS' which was pure fiction. Or the one about stopping immigration which is I suspect the same issue as in the states, as in it isn't one and they're just being scapegoated, because we need to create a scapegoat to blame everything on, because politicians don't take the blame...
So where I could work/live anywhere in Europe, that'll go. My sister-in-law, who's Belgian and who's lived here longer than she lived in Belgium is now genuinely concerned for her future.
People just didn't think... Had they been told that leaving was likely to fuck them up financially, they'd probably have voted differently. Had this campaign of xenophobia from politicians and the media not been so comprehensive, maybe people would have voted differently.
FFS have we learned nothing that we're going to go back to hating people purely based on where they're from. Really?! Because if that's the case, I don't want to live here any more. I thought Britain was over that sort of shit. We've been multi-cultural pretty much since WW2, now we want to reverse all that?
The more I think about it, the more utterly depressed I get.
I watched John Oliver's take on it last night, and as usual he was pretty spot on. Definitely going to be a rough patch.
Quote from: GermanCdn on June 28, 2016, 04:57:20 PM
I watched John Oliver's take on it last night, and as usual he was pretty spot on. Definitely going to be a rough patch.
That's how I caught up also... I have no comments at all since I am still wrapping my head around it.
Quote from: juansolo on June 28, 2016, 03:56:37 PM
You massively overestimate our politicians. They're all in damage limitation mode, ie, their own damage limitation. The Conservatives are essentially leaderless and directionless, the labour party have decided to use this as an opportunity to get rid of their leader (they mostly don't like him) by petty in-fighting.
Leaving the 'leave campaign' that consists of some of the vilest most hated politicians in the system. Gove did his level best to destroy education with a view to privatising it (ie break it so bad he can sell it to his mates or companies that he has a vested interest in). Hunt who tried to do the same with the NHS. Farage who's possibly the biggest racist on the planet and only slightly more level headed (slightly) than Trump. Finally Boris Johnson, who's an utter buffoon.
I don't think Boris is a buffoon. He plays one very well though. No doubt because it charms people into liking him and it makes those who dislike him underestimate him. Farage on the other hand, every time he's on my TV screen he makes me want to smash the screen. I wouldn't let my cat take a shit on a newspaper he's in.
QuoteAll of them have been proven to be liars and manipulators that have purely been out to further their own agenda's rather than working for the good of the country.
I think that describes Boris more then anything. Farage I can believe he just genuinely hates the EU. If he wanted actual power he would have joined one of the big parties as the chance of UKIP getting any actual power are slim to none. He seems like one of those people who just wants to blow up the system. Even if that means torching everything and everyone around him. Nero playing the violin as Rome burns. But Boris wanted to become PM, no matter what the cost to himself, the party or the country. If Cameron had headed the leave campaign he would have gleefully headed the stay campaign.
QuoteNope, the leave vote has left us in more than a bit of a state. No one is calming it, hence our economy will likely collapse as the notoriously twitchy business world reacts to the lack of control.
The losers will of course be the people without off-shore savings funds. The ones who do pay their taxes. Sadly people were swung by big sweeping statements like 'let's invest the 350m a week from the EU back in the NHS' which was pure fiction. Or the one about stopping immigration which is I suspect the same issue as in the states, as in it isn't one and they're just being scapegoated, because we need to create a scapegoat to blame everything on, because politicians don't take the blame...
So where I could work/live anywhere in Europe, that'll go. My sister-in-law, who's Belgian and who's lived here longer than she lived in Belgium is now genuinely concerned for her future.
You're welcome to join us on the continent while you still can though. ;)
QuotePeople just didn't think... Had they been told that leaving was likely to fuck them up financially, they'd probably have voted differently.
They weren't? ??? Didn't the Stay campaign basically unleash one doom scenario after the other to scare people into not voting to leave?
Maybe that was the problem. Politicians have become lazy and all they can do is scare us. Of the doom and gloom of a Brexit. Of the scary foreigners and EU bureaucracy. Of the evil terrorists. They've lost the art to inspire us with an uplifting message. Why the EU is a good thing. How it has made nations who went to war with each other once every few decades into friends and allies. How we are always stronger together then on our own.
QuoteHad this campaign of xenophobia from politicians and the media not been so comprehensive, maybe people would have voted differently.
FFS have we learned nothing that we're going to go back to hating people purely based on where they're from. Really?! Because if that's the case, I don't want to live here any more. I thought Britain was over that sort of shit. We've been multi-cultural pretty much since WW2, now we want to reverse all that?
Maybe that is the lesson we should take at heart. That everything we take for granted can be taken away from us. Because politicians like Cameron don't know how to inspire and lead their nations, because there are political arsonists like Nigel Farage who delight in blowing up the system, and because there are those like Boris Johnson who crave power above all things that they are also willing to blow up the system.
QuoteThe more I think about it, the more utterly depressed I get.
Well, you could always do what they did in the Ukraine, start your own orange revolution. Every country gets the politicians its deserves. Either by agreeing with them, or by not bothering to do anything about them.
Quote from: Muadzin on June 28, 2016, 07:59:45 PMThey weren't? ??? Didn't the Stay campaign basically unleash one doom scenario after the other to scare people into not voting to leave?
The remain camp said it'd all go to shit if we left, the leave camp said we'd have less and less control if we stayed and this was the only option. Remain wheeled out experts, leave said, and I quote "people have had quite enough of 'experts'". Remain said it'd be doom and gloom if we left, leave said it was fear mongering (oh the irony)...
There were little to no actual facts. Indeed the only person to accurately predict the outcome was the leader of the liberal democrats, who utterly nailed it. But no one listens to him...
This news....HUGE!!!
(https://s26.postimg.org/djndu5f89/image.jpg)
Another quite well written article on the current state of affairs. I don't necessarily agree with all of it. But she certainly seems to be like me in thinking that we're pretty fucked unless someone actually does something now: https://katyboo1.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/happy-now/
The comments section then devolves into shouting at each other... So maybe the government it just reflecting the mood of the people...?
I was the only member of my family who voted to stay... Maybe it's me that's got it all wrong?
Quote from: juansolo on June 28, 2016, 08:48:17 PM
The remain camp said it'd all go to shit if we left, the leave camp said we'd have less and less control if we stayed and this was the only option. Remain wheeled out experts, leave said, and I quote "people have had quite enough of 'experts'".
Yes, damn those pesky experts! How dare they confuse us with their expert knowledge. And wisdom. And general all round better knowledge of things we don't have.
Remain said it'd be doom and gloom if we left, leave said it was fear mongering (oh the irony)...
There were little to no actual facts. Indeed the only person to accurately predict the outcome was the leader of the liberal democrats, who utterly nailed it. But no one listens to him...
[/quote]
Quote from: juansolo on June 29, 2016, 07:16:46 AMQuoteI was the only member of my family who voted to stay... Maybe it's me that's got it all wrong?
You got to remember that people do not make logical informed decisions. It's emotional driven decisions. All the logic and reasoning only comes afterwards to justify their decisions. The leave camp understood this better then the remain camp. In any given discussion emotions and identity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logic. And Go Team UK and Scary Foreigners make for far better persuasion then boring Europe and cold hard facts.
Quote from: juansolo on June 29, 2016, 07:16:46 AM
Another quite well written article on the current state of affairs. I don't necessarily agree with all of it. But she certainly seems to be like me in thinking that we're pretty fucked unless someone actually does something now: https://katyboo1.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/happy-now/
The comments section then devolves into shouting at each other... So maybe the government it just reflecting the mood of the people...?
I was the only member of my family who voted to stay... Maybe it's me that's got it all wrong?
Geez, the idea of trying to get rid of Mark Carney is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Mark managed to keep the Canadian economy in relatively good condition from 2008 - 2010, if the UK is going into recession (which seems like a foregone conclusion at this point), he's the guy you want. But by all means, if you don't want him, we'll take him back, no questions asked.
Quote from: GermanCdn on June 29, 2016, 02:53:30 PM
Mark Carney
Totally read that as Art Carney.
;D
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6c/67/a8/6c67a8569436e30a27fe285d29d2cf70.jpg)
A very long read, but one of the most balanced considerations of how we got into the situation I've read. I encourage reading it if you've any interest in how countries end up in this predicament.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making?CMP=share_btn_fb
In a way, reading that makes me think that we were heading here regardless and because of that, it makes me much more accepting of the situation. He's absolutely right on many issues that led to this that I noticed and I'm sure many others have too. We've just ignored it. This will at least force some sort of response from the ruling class. Indeed, it's sent them into disarray. But they'll have to address these issues now or watch the country implode on itself.
Interesting analysis. And I think it applies just as much for us on the continent. The integration of the white working class into the economy on the continent has just as much been neglected. The old socialist and christian democrat parties that looked out for them in the past have all become one neo-liberal gestalt which are all interchangeable. With leftwing parties more concerned with looking after refugees, minorities and gay rights, while cheerfully willing to vote in favor of doing away with old securites that the white working class held dear, and multinationals outsourcing jobs to countries with cheap labor it has left them vulnerable to the populist demagogues who are now raking in their votes.
...and IT is the new manufacturing. My job went to India and I'm pretty much unemployable in that role now due to 'globalising' (they stopped calling it off-shoring). I need to get myself back into work soon, but my skills are no longer relevant in this country. Just the latest casualties of businesses out sourcing.
Nothing changes without something this extreme coming along and shaking things up. I could just do without it empowering all the bigots and those with fascistic tendencies. That's very much the wrong solution to the situation.
Hopefully (hope, now there's a thing), things might change for the better. I'm gonna try and be more positive about it.
Somebody on a different forum called it a bloodless revolution. Still, you can ask the French, the Russians, the Iranians, the Egyptians and the Syrians how their revolutions worked out for them. The general modus operandi for revolutions seems to be: shit goes bad -> people blame old elite-> revolution deposes old elite -> ....? -> shit goes a lot worse -> new elite takes over -> if lucky shit goes back just to what it used to be or stabilizes at an lower point.
So I predict the UK will leave the EU and end up like Norway and Switserland. Still part of the common market and all its programs, still paying to be part of all it, but no longer having any say in the matter. Which still leaves the question what Scotland will do.
I feel for you guys in the U.K., and also for the guys in the US.
What a mess. At least the discussion here is reasonable and carefully expressed. Nothing makes me want to face palm more than reading the comments on a Facebook thread.
In slightly similar but different news, Australia has a federal election this Saturday. I've already done an absent vote for whatever reason, but there isn't a single party or candidate that is worth voting for in the lower house. The senate has a couple, but it's chockablock with racists, anti vaxxers, and special interest groups with an extremely narrow set of interests.
Quote from: juansolo on June 30, 2016, 08:14:54 AM
A very long read, but one of the most balanced considerations of how we got into the situation I've read. I encourage reading it if you've any interest in how countries end up in this predicament.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making?CMP=share_btn_fb
In a way, reading that makes me think that we were heading here regardless and because of that, it makes me much more accepting of the situation. He's absolutely right on many issues that led to this that I noticed and I'm sure many others have too. We've just ignored it. This will at least force some sort of response from the ruling class. Indeed, it's sent them into disarray. But they'll have to address these issues now or watch the country implode on itself.
Very interesting read.
Worth it just for the replies.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/michael-gove-twitter-insults_uk_577b8963e4b073366f0faf62?vz83dnfp1njkmx6r
It would appear that the strategic thinking behind the Brexit camp was similar to the one behind the invasion of Iraq.
1:Leave the EU
2: -
3: A new golden age for the UK?
I had never realized people in the UK had such creative insults:
you are one confused bag of mince
you boil-in-the-bag rent-a-clown
YOU ARSE-CHEEKED BOLLOCK-WAGON
you incompetent ventriloquist-dummy-faced spunktrumpet
you reprehensible spam faced tool bag
you back stabbing cockwomble
You're an absolute wankcrumpet
you haunted pork mannequin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting)
There's an ancient tradition in Scotland and England of competitive insults.
I just realized something even more depressing. I can excuse the average Joe for making an emotionally driven decision that will far reaching consequences for his own future, for the average Joe may not know everything that is at stake. But we expect a little more from our politicians, whom we in theory elect to make this hard decisions for us. But some of these Eurosceptics have been at it like since forever and the Tories have been tearing themselves apart over EU membership since like forever. At least since the Major years in the 90's. You'd think that by now the Eurosceptics would at least have developed a strategy as to what would happen and what they would do if they would get their way. Since it appears that they haven't it kind of defeats the purpose of electing these smegheads.
Quote from: drolo on July 06, 2016, 08:39:37 AM
I had never realized people in the UK had such creative insults:
you are one confused bag of mince
you boil-in-the-bag rent-a-clown
YOU ARSE-CHEEKED BOLLOCK-WAGON
you incompetent ventriloquist-dummy-faced spunktrumpet
you reprehensible spam faced tool bag
you back stabbing cockwomble
You're an absolute wankcrumpet
you haunted pork mannequin
Haunted pork mannequin is my favourite, not only for creativity, but because it's a perfect description of the man.