We have reserve seating already purchased for opening night thanks to my kid. I'm not as pumped for this as I feel like I should be. I feel like TFA is still holding up well for me. I hope this can live up.
https://youtu.be/GgBH_UoTu_U
looks good so far. Not sure what is up with that penguin-like thing next to Chewbacca though. I guess they needed something cute and cuddly as a counterpole for the rage and anger that seems to dominate
Quote from: m-Kresol on October 10, 2017, 06:05:58 AM
looks good so far. Not sure what is up with that penguin-like thing next to Chewbacca though. I guess they needed something cute and cuddly as a counterpole for the rage and anger that seems to dominate
The story I heard is that Puffins kept wandering into frame when they were filming on Skellig Michael (the island Luke is on). Since its a nature preserve, they couldn't bother the puffins, so to deal with them they created a cuddly creature to digitally cover them up with. And the artists and writers loved the little things so much that they decided to actually write them into the plot in some way. (Plus, toy market, always a plus to the Star Wars/Disney PR people).
I'd believe they were put in as a toy/marketing thing before the story about puffins. But I have worked in marketing before so maybe I'm just too cynical. :P
My 10 year old was screaming with delight about the little penguin, so regardless of the reason behind it, yep, it's going to be on shelves near you soon.
The new trailer does look good though. :)
Quote from: mjg on October 10, 2017, 07:20:52 AM
it's going to be on shelves near you soon.
Mate, they've been on the shelves since the first trailer, ages ago. They even have an animatronic one that flaps and squawks.
And hell, its probably the first creature ever who's "Funko PoP!" figurine is photoaccurate...
Kill all Porgs...Other than that, I suspect this trailer to be misleading as hell haha. It has you guessing at the story it suggests and I hope it's all done clever enough to not actually give away anything of the story we're gonna see.
For me the bird thing wasn't the sticking point, but Rey's saber moving with the music felt like a bit o' cheese.
(https://i.redd.it/gbxfep09lwoy.jpg)
Quote from: Rockhorst on October 10, 2017, 11:15:57 AM
.... I suspect this trailer to be misleading as hell haha. It has you guessing at the story it suggests and I hope it's all done clever enough to not actually give away anything of the story we're gonna see.
I hope so, otherwise they've just given away how Leia dies...
Got my tickets
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've not even seen the last Star Wars movie, Rogue One. TFA managed to kill off whatever enthusiasm I still might have had for the franchise after the prequels. But I reckon JJ Abrams is to blame here. I've finally figured him out. He takes a crap story, a real turd, dresses it up and polishes it to a fine shine (in the case of Nu Trek to a fine lens flare) so it looks spectacular, and then afterwards, after I've watched it I go hang on, something's not right here. Cause its still a turd underneath. He did it with Lost, Cloverfield, the Star Trek reboot, and now Star Wars. It looks good, it looks spectacular, but every time I watch one of his productions I go hang on, something's not right here.
Quote from: Muadzin on October 10, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
I've not even seen the last Star Wars movie, Rogue One. TFA managed to kill off whatever enthusiasm I still might have had for the franchise after the prequels.
I thought Rogue One was waaaaay better than TFA. I encourage you to give it a try. Hell, just watch the first 30 minutes, and if you don't feel like it's radically different/better than TFA, shut it off.
I personally felt the opposite. Rouge one was a poorly edited mess, with orphaned plot threads and confused characterizations. It turned around in the last third, and had an amazing final few minutes, but it was just "Ok" to me. Too many re-writes, too few drafts, don't know precisely what happened, but the final product was the same sorta dull that you get from mixing all the paint pots together.
TFA on the other hand, while a bit derivative, was fun. Likeable characters, a cohesive narrative flow, and constructed such that everything more or less "fit".
I enjoyed both movies, but I've never had an urge to re-watch Rogue One, while I pop in TFA every few months.
(These are opinions, obviously, so feel free to disagree)
I liked 'em both
I liked Rogue One maybe because it wasn't yet another "let's blow up the Death Star" plot. Two was plenty, the third (TFA) was too much.
I liked TFA overall, but I recall sitting in the theater thinking, "Again? Really?" They had a decade to come up with a compelling story and all we got was a rehash of the first three films. I'll take a new, if imperfect, plot over the same-old-shit any day.
I just want to see a SW film directed by Kevin Smith that's only about Stormtroopers. Gimmie that and I will die a happy man.
Quote from: madbean on October 11, 2017, 12:37:56 AM
I just want to see a SW film directed by Kevin Smith that's only about Stormtroopers. Gimmie that and I will die a happy man.
This would be a truly amazing thing.
The Lasr Jedi looks promising. I'm very excited about it. Love both of the two new movies. TFA had to many throwbacks, hoping the new one doesn't lean on that as much. Though it being the middle movie and seeing those AT-AT's in the trailer makes me think it'll be more throwback plot.
If they keep this up I'm going to start worrying that Han didn't really die. He was just frozen in carbonite again.
To be fair though, whatever they do I'm sure I'll watch it over and over and think it's great.
>> TFA had to many throwbacks, hoping the new one doesn't lean on that as much. Though it being the middle movie and seeing those AT-AT's in the trailer makes me think it'll be more throwback plot.
These were my exact thoughts. TFA had enough great things in it to stand on its own, but it didn't let itself stand on its own. Most of the ships in this trailer look like updated versions of things we've seen before. That makes me worry that it'll have the same issue TFA did.
All I can hear in the opening of the trailer is, "Long live the king!"
Muadzin hit the nail right on the head!
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Quote from: madbean on October 11, 2017, 12:37:56 AM
I just want to see a SW film directed by Kevin Smith that's only about Stormtroopers. Gimmie that and I will die a happy man.
YES PLEASE!!
Quote from: culturejam on October 11, 2017, 12:10:47 AM
... I recall sitting in the theater thinking, "Again? Really?" They had a decade to come up with a compelling story and all we got was a rehash of the first three films. I'll take a new, if imperfect, plot over the same-old-shit any day.
^^^This! Except that I didn't much like The Force Awakens as a result. Rogue One was better, for sure, but there have GOT to be some Republic/Empire/Jedi/Sith tales that DON'T involve a Death Star, no?
Right now I've a horrible feeling that The Last Jedi is just going to be Luke Skywalker mentoring Rey like Yoda did him - with the same "only once before" reflections on a powerful apprentice gone wrong - that inevitably results in another light/jedi vs dark/sith confrontation and happy-ish/melancholy reconciliation/ending ... with some painfully obvious marketing plants (e.g. ready for video game scenes and destined for cuddly toy species) thrown in along the way.
I'd love to be wrong, mind!
want to know the difference between TFA and ANH? Rey wasn't a whiney little bitch like Luke ...
I have somewhere, a tv or webseries, called "troopers", which is very much like "Cops", but... with stormtroopers on tatooine...
Thanks for the reminder Willybomb! How could I have forgotten about this?!
Quote from: Willybomb on October 18, 2017, 02:47:04 AM
I have somewhere, a tv or webseries, called "troopers", which is very much like "Cops", but... with stormtroopers on tatooine...
I love how they all had Wisconsin accents.
"If we have to come back, we're gonna have to shoot ya."
No! I've got a different one somewhere!
Sorry, yeah, Pickdropper was right (I thought he was referring to the Clerks one), this is the one I was talking about:
Quote from: culturejam on October 11, 2017, 12:10:47 AM
I liked Rogue One maybe because it wasn't yet another "let's blow up the Death Star" plot. Two was plenty, the third (TFA) was too much.
I liked TFA overall, but I recall sitting in the theater thinking, "Again? Really?" They had a decade to come up with a compelling story and all we got was a rehash of the first three films. I'll take a new, if imperfect, plot over the same-old-shit any day.
Totally agree with this. It's just a reboot of the first 3 films designed particularly to tug hard on the nostalgia strings. Rogue One I thought did a good job of basically being a prequel. It turned the opening crawl of Star Wars into a movie. A war movie... Which is part of the name, so that's ok.
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 17, 2017, 10:19:31 PM
want to know the difference between TFA and ANH? Rey wasn't a whiney little bitch like Luke ...
Ever met a teenager?
I'll take a whiney little bitch over the biggest Mary Sue in Hollywood movie history ANY day. Not even fan fiction writers dare to make their mary sues that perfect as Rey was. And I've read a LOT of fan fiction.
As for Rogue One, I've not seen it, but I've read the synopsis, and what struck me as a huge failing was that they tried to explain the exhaust port weakness from ANH. It's like how Star Trek Enterprise tried to explain how Klingons went from smooth foreheads in TOS to ridged foreheads in the movies and other series. Everybody knows it was because of new makeup designs and budgets. Just leave it at that, but no, they had to come up with some complicated Augment storyline. Similarly with the exhaust port. There had to be a backdoor, otherwise there would be no boom for the Death Star. Every hidden fortress has a secret backdoor that leads to the Evil Tyrant's demise. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point to the movie. And its not like it was easy for the rebels because they got slaughtered out there. 2 out of 3 trench runs got decimated, Luke's wingmen either got smoked or bowed out, and if it weren't for him using the Force he would have missed as well. But, nerds being nerds, they have to explain away every little plot detail. For everything has to make sense to a nerd (to which I count myself as well). And since everyone working at SW these days is basically a fanboy, they felt they just had to explain away this plot detail.
I've never understood comparisons between Star Wars and Star Trek. To me that would be like comparing a Fender Mustang to the fender off of an old Mustang.
Quote from: Muadzin on October 23, 2017, 10:54:46 AM
and what struck me as a huge failing was that they tried to explain the exhaust port weakness from ANH.
I actually liked this. I think it's better delivered on screen than read in a summary.
Why don't you watch Rogue One and find out? It won't take that much time out your life, and if you hate it then you'll actually be justified in shit-talking. ;)
looking solely on TFA for explanation of ability, I'm not really seeing the mary sue. not a particularly successful scavenger(barely getting by), not particularly good at piloting the falcon, managed to make the freighter situation worse by letting the monsters loose, freaked out by the force visions, barely fought off a very injured kylo ren to escape.
I'm surprised that people get so caught up in this stuff. I love me some Star Wars, but but high art it is not. These are popcorn movies, there for a good time.
On a spectrum with the extremes of entertainment and fine art, Star Wars would be much closer to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure than it would be to Cinema Paradiso. That's not a bad thing at all, but i find it helpful to set my expectations lower for the entertainment end of things.
Like with most things in life, I do have standards, but they're pretty low ;D
unfortunately nobody is discussing blade runner ...
I haven't had a chance to see it yet. Does the new one still have the heavy Noir influence. I've always liked the style of the first one more than the movie itself. From a visual standpoint it's very well done.
I enjoyed the source material more than the film itself. PK Dick is one of my favorite authors. The movie is more inspired by the book, not actually based on the book, which always bugged me when I was younger.
Quote from: Leevibe on October 23, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
I've never understood comparisons between Star Wars and Star Trek. To me that would be like comparing a Fender Mustang to the fender off of an old Mustang.
The debate is as old as the first Star Wars movie itself. As I said, nerds get passionate over the things they like and really serious too. Both fandoms have been at each others throats for decades and the internet made it easier to fight it out online. There are whole webcommunities devoted to that. I used to be a member at spacebattles.com and people could debate endlessly which would win, a Galaxy class starship vs. an Imperial Star Destroyer. They would actually calculate how destructive each side's weapons were based on onscreen evidence and tech manuals. Closest analogy I can think of would be people who prefer Fender guitars and those who prefer Gibson's. Or sports fans and their favorite teams. But don't diss this as stupid, because A: it means something to these people, B: its still leagues above the retardation of football fans of different teams bashing each other's skulls in, and C: we all have something that we get passionate about that other people find stupid as well.
Anyway, in this context its not about which franchise is better because it's JJ Abrams which is the common link, having directed both Star Trek and Star Wars. With the same result. Lots of glossy spin obfuscating that underneath it all the movie is still a turd.
Quote from: culturejam on October 23, 2017, 02:17:23 PMI actually liked this. I think it's better delivered on screen than read in a summary.
Why don't you watch Rogue One and find out? It won't take that much time out your life, and if you hate it then you'll actually be justified in shit-talking. ;)
I'll watch it if it ever makes it on television. Not that I want to be pedantic, and if I come across I apologize, but.... after TFA I just can't be arsed to make the effort to watch a Star Wars movie anymore.
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 23, 2017, 10:19:07 PM
looking solely on TFA for explanation of ability, I'm not really seeing the mary sue. not a particularly successful scavenger(barely getting by), not particularly good at piloting the falcon, managed to make the freighter situation worse by letting the monsters loose, freaked out by the force visions, barely fought off a very injured kylo ren to escape.
Dude, she takes on a trained Sith warrior and suddenly has Jedi powers? Even Luke could barely do anything before going to Jedi College on Dagobah. Have you ever fought against a trained martial artist with no training yourself? You'll quickly become an object lesson. I've sparred against a few and it was that they were taking things easy on me, or otherwise it would be over very quickly. And I had at least been taught a few of the basic things. Rey knew Jack Shit! And she still flies the damn Falcon into space, having no prior experience. Maybe if she had been playing Wing Commander for all of her life I could have bought some of that, or the thing was flying on auto pilot (like in TPM (and that was already pretty bad)), but it would be akin to the two dudes from Tremors finding a jet fighter and suddenly being able to pilot it. I don't buy it. I've read enough bad fan fiction to notice a Mary Sue when I see one.
Like I said, Abrams is VERY adept at polishing up a turd and make it look good. That is all he's good at. Coming up with a good original story and characters, not at all. He's like Michael Bay, only Bay's movies are a physical assault on your senses.
Quote from: Matmosphere on October 24, 2017, 04:13:00 AM
I haven't had a chance to see it yet. Does the new one still have the heavy Noir influence. I've always liked the style of the first one more than the movie itself. From a visual standpoint it's very well done.
I enjoyed the source material more than the film itself. PK Dick is one of my favorite authors. The movie is more inspired by the book, not actually based on the book, which always bugged me when I was younger.
the heavy noir is still there, it is visually stunning, presents even better philosophical issues regarding AI, and the only people I've caught complaining either hate everything anyways or didn't see the original and so they don't get it.
back to the star wars crap ... probably time to dial this back about 25% considering the ewoks defeated a mechanized army and they're little more than angry teddy bears. Singling out a particular female character in an entire series of films that are seemingly based around youthful protagonists improbably failing upwards seems misogynistic, which is where I felt like retorting ... it is a serial western set in space with eastern religion overtones, not exactly hardcore literature(the fat guy is named Porkins for crying out loud). my original comment was more a sarcastic admission that I just watched a new hope over again, not some invite into whatever this argument is.
Quote from: Matmosphere on October 24, 2017, 04:13:00 AM
I haven't had a chance to see it yet. Does the new one still have the heavy Noir influence. I've always liked the style of the first one more than the movie itself. From a visual standpoint it's very well done.
I enjoyed the source material more than the film itself. PK Dick is one of my favorite authors. The movie is more inspired by the book, not actually based on the book, which always bugged me when I was younger.
My wife saw it Sunday, she said it was at least as good as the original. She also said that the cinematography and especially lighting and sound were fantastic, and she rarely comments on that stuff.
Also, she didn't complain about the ending, so the ending must have been, like, the best ending to any movie ever.
/highjack
I'm pretty excited to see it. Just watched the original again last week. It would be really wrong if they ditched the noir feel. It's my favorite bing about the original.
Quote from: Muadzin on October 24, 2017, 09:06:47 AM
Anyway, in this context its not about which franchise is better because it's JJ Abrams which is the common link, having directed both Star Trek and Star Wars. With the same result. Lots of glossy spin obfuscating that underneath it all the movie is still a turd.
It's obvious, of course.
Both of them would lose -- to the Imperium of Man and the God-Emperor of Mankind.
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 24, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
back to the star wars crap ... probably time to dial this back about 25% considering the ewoks defeated a mechanized army and they're little more than angry teddy bears. Singling out a particular female character in an entire series of films that are seemingly based around youthful protagonists improbably failing upwards seems misogynistic, which is where I felt like retorting ... it is a serial western set in space with eastern religion overtones, not exactly hardcore literature(the fat guy is named Porkins for crying out loud). my original comment was more a sarcastic admission that I just watched a new hope over again, not some invite into whatever this argument is.
So this is what PC has become then? Any criticism of a female character is now misogyny? Shall I add racism then by saying that I though that the black renegade Stormtrooper had even less character depth then Jar Jar Binks? Mary Sue or Gary Sue, it doesn't matter what they have between their legs, either is bad. And Rey happens to be the biggest Mary Sue in Hollywood movie history. Even the Ewoks pale in comparison. And they were Teddy Sues already. And I don't care if Star Wars is movie art, or just some dumb ass pop corn movie, I want to be entertained by a movie with a good story. One that doesn't make me sit up and say hang on....., something is not right here. Each Star Wars movie costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make, and this was the best script and characters they could come up with? I've read fanfiction that was better written then this.
Quote from: alanp on October 25, 2017, 04:08:39 AMIt's obvious, of course.
Both of them would lose -- to the Imperium of Man and the God-Emperor of Mankind.
That goes without saying. The Emperor protects!
Which reminds me, I have to take some pics of my last guitar build.
No more rhyming now. I mean it!!
Does anybody want a peanut?
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 24, 2017, 01:03:20 AM
unfortunately nobody is discussing blade runner ...
...and barely anyone went to see it judging by my showing.
Quote from: juansolo on October 25, 2017, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 24, 2017, 01:03:20 AM
unfortunately nobody is discussing blade runner ...
...and barely anyone went to see it judging by my showing.
I'm going soon. Pretty excited about it.
Looks goo, I like the movie
Bladerunner 2049 was sublime in all ways
A worthy sequel to one of my favourites, and more than did justice to the visuals, cinematography and soundtrack of the original.
Higher praise I cannot provide. Everyone should see it if only for the absolutely astonishing aesthetics.
Yep I agree about Blade Runner 2049.
I thought it was absolutely fantastic. It was made to be seen on a big screen with a good sound system.
The sound, the visuals, the existential plot and themes, the bowel moving synths ( ;))... everything.
If I had to change one thing I would have just asked for a few more Vangelis nods in the score. There were a few, but I could always do with more (the original soundtrack is a classic).
I still can't get the film out of my head (couple of weeks now since I watched it).
p.s. People walked out of the screening I went too. It was hardly jam packed either. No accounting for taste I guess!
I was listening to the score yesterday. Awesome.
my theory is that there are a lot more "people who have seen blade runner" and are "fans" than there are people who have actually seen blade runner and are fans of it. this one was worth the extra coin for the 3-D showing
Reviews are online.
Now I just have to keep myself from reading them.
Gotta say the trailers make it look promising.
Quote from: brucer on October 17, 2017, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: culturejam on October 11, 2017, 12:10:47 AM
... I recall sitting in the theater thinking, "Again? Really?" They had a decade to come up with a compelling story and all we got was a rehash of the first three films. I'll take a new, if imperfect, plot over the same-old-shit any day.
^^^This! Except that I didn't much like The Force Awakens as a result. Rogue One was better, for sure, but there have GOT to be some Republic/Empire/Jedi/Sith tales that DON'T involve a Death Star, no?
Right now I've a horrible feeling that The Last Jedi is just going to be Luke Skywalker mentoring Rey like Yoda did him - with the same "only once before" reflections on a powerful apprentice gone wrong - that inevitably results in another light/jedi vs dark/sith confrontation and happy-ish/melancholy reconciliation/ending ... with some painfully obvious marketing plants (e.g. ready for video game scenes and destined for cuddly toy species) thrown in along the way.
I'd love to be wrong, mind!
The whole problem with Star Wars and Hollywood as a whole is that they will always go with what is safe. Which is why so many films are re-hashes and sequels of things that have been previously successful. Well they liked that, do that again. It's why Marvel stuff is starting to get stale, when you've saved the planet 5 times already there's just no tension there.
This is why I liked Logan and, even though it has serious flaws, Rogue One. Logan is a road movie, the villain isn't actually critical to the plot, they're just a reason for the journey. The film is about the reluctant family and that journey. Rogue One being about a smaller conflict in a bigger war. There are lots of stories that could be told within that narrative universe. Something the games used to do really well (in the past), where you'd take on the role of rebel spies, or indeed someone in the Empire. It blurs lines, and makes things interesting.
The inevitable problem is that Star Wars was a big popcorn action movie that appealed to kids and the fans of it, myself included, are not kids any more. So we want something different. However TFA will do EXACTLY what Star Wars did for 5 year old me in 1977 for kids now. They don't know about any of the previous films, they've just got an updated version of the first three so Disney can try and re-capture that magic that the first three films had for a new audience. In that respect Disney are nailed on in their approach.
The thing is, they want to turn out tonnes of films to re-coup their gigantic investment, so why not have some more interesting, more mature films also? That's where I'd be going with it. I think Rogue One was a messy step in the right direction for that. We shall see what else they do.
Quote from: LaceSensor on October 25, 2017, 10:25:14 PM
Bladerunner 2049 was sublime in all ways
A worthy sequel to one of my favourites, and more than did justice to the visuals, cinematography and soundtrack of the original.
Higher praise I cannot provide. Everyone should see it if only for the absolutely astonishing aesthetics.
*mild spoiler*
I would make one change to the film. The film was about K, so IMO the film should have ended on the steps. What happened afterwards we didn't need to see as we and he are fully aware by this point. It would have just made a much more poignant ending to that moment... and indeed the narrative of the film. But given all the brilliance that went before it, I'll let it slide.
Quote from: raulduke on October 26, 2017, 02:21:53 PM
p.s. People walked out of the screening I went too. It was hardly jam packed either. No accounting for taste I guess!
Same experience here. Probably about 5 groups in the cinema and one left about an hour in. Which goes on to reinforce Hollywood's stance when it comes to blockbusters vs actual films.
Quote from: thesmokingman on October 24, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
the ewoks defeated a mechanized army and they're little more than angry teddy bears.
In actual military history, the number of times a vastly technologically superior force has taken on a comparatively 3rd world guerilla opposition and it didn't go well for the former is startling... Just saying ;) The choice of psychotic teddy bears I'll agree makes the whole idea of that a bit more challenging.
Quote from: mremic01 on October 11, 2017, 02:58:57 PM
>> TFA had to many throwbacks, hoping the new one doesn't lean on that as much. Though it being the middle movie and seeing those AT-AT's in the trailer makes me think it'll be more throwback plot.
These were my exact thoughts. TFA had enough great things in it to stand on its own, but it didn't let itself stand on its own. Most of the ships in this trailer look like updated versions of things we've seen before. That makes me worry that it'll have the same issue TFA did.
No no, there's red under the snow now, see! ;) Definitely not Hoth, and the land speeders are totally different ;)
Quote from: juansolo on December 13, 2017, 10:20:07 AMIn actual military history, the number of times a vastly technologically superior force has taken on a comparatively 3rd world guerilla opposition and it didn't go well for the former is startling... Just saying ;) The choice of psychotic teddy bears I'll agree makes the whole idea of that a bit more challenging.
Thing is though, I'ma bit of a student of military history, while guerillas have defeated a vastly superior force in a war, they hardly ever seem to do so in individual battles. When they take on the superior force in pitched battle guerillas almost always get their asses kicked. The battles are almost always won by the superior force, how they win is by avoiding those battles, picking those that favor them instead and above all by staying alive as a force in the field. Outlasting the enemy, until they sense that the enemy is either weakening, or losing the will to fight. Plus you got to have some firepower on your own. Bow and arrows against rifles and machine guns did not cut it, let alone against modern firepower. By that logic the Ewoks should never have stood a chance, other then act of plot. Which is the most stupid way to win. And why the friggin' teddybears are so hated.
But then again Lucas seems clueless in regards to military tactics in general. Hollywood in general is bad in that regard but Lucas in particular. Just look at the land battles in the prequels. Napoleonic armies marching in formation against each other. Not even World War I trench warfare battles were handled that incompetently. Star Wars makes General Melchett look competent by comparison. But hey, it looks good on screen. At least, that was the intention.
As for the Blade Runner film, didn't the original also bombed at the box office? It may have gotten a lot of cult status, but if you want to have a successful box office hit movie you need more then just cult fans and art movie viewers. You need casual viewers. And lots of them.
Pretty much yup to all of that.
Bladerunner tanked on release and I don't think that was down to the producers interference when it came to the voice over and ending either. I was very young when I saw it, but I loved sci-fi (used to watch all the old ones also), and I recognised it was something special. Just the world building alone was unlike anything we'd seen before. A far more realistic future from the likes of Star Wars and 2001. No pristine whites, this was grimy, oppressive and utterly amazing. Same could be said for Ridley's other outing with Alien, where the crew of the Nostromo were the best realised space truckers there has ever been. I think 2049 will be remembered as a sequel to a cult classic done right. Much like Aliens.
You are of course right, a guerilla force cannot take on a technologically superior force head on, hence they have to pick their battles where they can get in, do damage and get out before they can respond. Which of course is not what happens in ROTJ, it's head-to-head (or head to crotch as it would be) and of course the whole reason behind the teddy bears was to sell toys. It also being a ridiculous film with no attempts at making the science part of it make sense, it's fair enough. I don't mind ROTJ to be honest. I do think the Ewoks ruin it, but I still like the rest of the film so I can overlook it.
Going to see TLJ tonight. I'm pretty excited about it. I fully expect there to be disappointments but I tend to watch Star Wars with more of the child-like eye. And I'm always (maybe a little over) optimistic about each new film. Even the ones I don't like much, I tend to like when I first see them in the theater.
I am a little nervous that Star Wars could be ruined if Disney starts cranking them out at the same rate as all the comic book movies. It's why I was kind of nervous about Rogue One. I'm so glad that movie came out though! I think it was excellent. I find the comic book movies to be a yawn these days. I watched Wonder Woman about a month ago and I couldn't believe how formulaic and predicable it was. Ragnaroc was meh except that I really loved the Hulk in it.
Anyway, I'm pretty excited to see Star Wars tonight with the family. I know we're going to have a good time. And we should all be thankful to still have the treasure that is John Williams. He is such a huge part of the essence of Star Wars. I thought Michael Giacchino did a great job on Rogue One too, but excited to hear the new score!
Quote from: Leevibe on December 14, 2017, 04:33:06 PM
I fully expect there to be disappointments
It's getting _very_ good reviews so far. I'm nervous, but it sounds like it's not going to disappoint.
I have read in the past that Lucas had originally intended the whole thing with the ewoks to be with wookies instead and changed his mind at the last second because he worried that people wouldn't buy the idea that wookies were an undeveloped tribe of savages because Chewwie could fly the Falcon and use a Bowcaster.
Personally I have no problem with the Ewoks, but I agree that they don't fit with the tone of the first half of the film (I mean the Rancor and ewoks!). Ultimately I don't tend to think too hard about this type of movie because I find that the more I start picking them apart the less I enjoy them.
Is a savage race of little bears figthing stormtroopers entertaining to watch, yes.
Does it hold up to military scrutiny, I'm not sure I care.
Would it have been WAY cooler if it were wookies instead of ewoks, Definately! (and I don't think anyone would worry about if the wookies could have won or not.)
Quote from: Matmosphere on December 14, 2017, 08:57:36 PM
I have read in the past that Lucas had originally intended the whole thing with the ewoks to be with wookies instead and changed his mind at the last second because he worried that people wouldn't buy the idea that wookies were an undeveloped tribe of savages because Chewwie could fly the Falcon and use a Bowcaster.
It was really about money. Lucas had just gone through a divorce and lost a lot of what he had made on IV and V. So the wookies became ewoks so he could he could sell cuddly little Wicket plushies to little kids.
People talk about Lucas as if he's some sort of sci-fi geek with a vision. If you read his original drafts for what eventually became Episode IV, they mostly suck. The people around him helped him cut out the stupid and condense it all into one brilliant film. The planned sequel, Splinter of the Min's Eye, is pretty abysmal. His "saga", that extended to Empire and Jedi, wasn't even conceived until after A New Hope made tons of cash and they had the budget to do more. If you watch the making-of footage from the prequels, he seems unenthusiastic about them through the entire production. It's all about money.
I feel like a couple baby Wookiees in the movie could've served the same purpose.
Who knows, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
Watched it tonight and really enjoyed it! I didn't like everything about it, but as a whole I thought it was great. I'm looking forward to seeing it again. My advice is to watch it and try to let yourself have a little fun. Don't overthink it. I won't say anything else since this isn't a spoiler thread.
QuoteThe thing is, they want to turn out tonnes of films to re-coup their gigantic investment, so why not have some more interesting, more mature films also?
It will be very interesting to see what Disney will do with Deadpool.... but there is hope, given that they did Dragonslayer way back in the 80s - and that has a surprising amount of gore in one scene in particular.
I'm really over Finn and Poe. I feel like we could do without them. As a while, it was good though. The actual story line scenes were way better than the other scenes that get things in to place, and the comedy relief was more than I thought there should have been.
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Didn't like Poe in TFA either, or Finn's fanboying over him. Poe just comes across like the popular smarmy school jock.
In the original script the first order apparently killed Poe before he could escape.
They don't bug me. The movies need characters that aren't Luke, Han and Leia
I went and saw it this morning at 10 am. It was old geezer time for sure and the place was full. It was pretty good. My rating system is probably way off from everyone else's, ie, if I stay awake the whole movie it's damn good. And I did. I find I get really good sleep (better than in bed) at movie theaters. And as Leevibe said just go watch it and have some fun.
I haven't seen the new one yet but I am looking forward to it. On TFA, the characters Poe and Ki LoRen didn't bug me...it was the actors. They IMO were bad. Other than that I really enjoyed TFA (Rouge one was boring and didn't seem like a SW movie to me) and liked the direction everything was headed.
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Okay, i saw it, there was some great stuff. Overall though I'm kinda meh about it, have to give it another chance at some point.
I think it was the best looking flick in the series so far. Some shots were downright jaw droppingly gorgeous (the silent shot, for example). And, by a vast margin the best fight choreography.
However the pacing was a bit uneven, and if we get down to it, the whole "kanto bite" sequence probably could've been excised with little more than a 2 line re-write. I know it sets up Poe's arc, but it really felt a bit... unnecessary.
(I enjoyed the sequence, don't get me wrong, but in film-making terms it may have needed another edit or three).
But man, I can't imagine how Rian Johnson feels about Carrie Fisher's passing. There are so many little (and not so little) things they could have done to make her leaving the series cleaner. A bit macabre perhaps, but I do wonder if some sequences were edited differently once she had died.
Overall I enjoyed the hell out of it. Felt maybe 20 minutes longer than it needed to be, but I enjoyed it all. And bloody hell Luke, Bad Ass is too small a statement for ya.
Quote from: mremic01 on December 14, 2017, 09:27:47 PMIt was really about money. Lucas had just gone through a divorce and lost a lot of what he had made on IV and V. So the wookies became ewoks so he could he could sell cuddly little Wicket plushies to little kids.
People talk about Lucas as if he's some sort of sci-fi geek with a vision. If you read his original drafts for what eventually became Episode IV, they mostly suck. The people around him helped him cut out the stupid and condense it all into one brilliant film. The planned sequel, Splinter of the Min's Eye, is pretty abysmal. His "saga", that extended to Empire and Jedi, wasn't even conceived until after A New Hope made tons of cash and they had the budget to do more. If you watch the making-of footage from the prequels, he seems unenthusiastic about them through the entire production. It's all about money.
I saw those making off scenes. He was going all enthusiastic about the new CGI model designs, and then said off handed that he had to finish the writing for the movie (Phantom Menace) that afternoon. That told me everything I needed to know why the prequels sucked. Like you said, for ANH he had feedback from friends and family telling him what sucked, what not, tips on how to improve. For the prequels he had 20 years of being secluded on his ranch, always hearing how great he was, what a visionary he was, then working on the new movies, surrounded by yes men, or worst of all, ascended fanboys. No wonder the prequels couldn't do anything but disappoint. Hype aside, under those conditions how could do anything but do that?
As for TLJ, I'm sure it will turn out like all other movies from JJ Abrams, looking nice and spiffy, but look deeper and it will still be a well polished turd. If I get proven wrong I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'd rather lower my expectations when it comes to JJ. I'll see it when I get to see it.
Quote from: somnif on December 16, 2017, 06:32:55 AM
I think it was the best looking flick in the series so far. Some shots were downright jaw droppingly gorgeous (the silent shot, for example). And, by a vast margin the best fight choreography.
I agree. There were definitely some incredible visuals, although some depart from the tone of the originals a little more than I'd like. The particular shot you mention is incredible but I can't help but feel like it would have been more powerful with a little better writing and narrative. And the greatness of that visual was kinda diminished by another shot in the movie that was so Disney.
I think it's pretty clear where the main narrative is headed now.
Let me just say that going into light speed and through another ship was what every sci-fi space flick needs, that was so cool.
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Quote from: jimilee on December 16, 2017, 05:10:07 PM
Let me just say that going into light speed and through another ship was what every sci-fi space flick needs, that was so cool.
I agree. Was a very cool effect. Even better than the seismic bombs in Epi. 1
Also, I liked that just shorting out everything in a circuit board will make it work. also, resistors look quite similar to ours in the galaxy far far away...
Saw movie. I'm not mad, just disappointed.
Saw it finally. Didn't like it for lots of reasons. I think I must be over Star Wars since I didn't like Rogue One either. The light-speed ram was awesome, though. That was a true "hold your breath" moment. There was another moment with Kylo and Rey where I thought "oh this is about to go in a very cool direction...I want to see THAT movie" but, no. Reset everything back to where it started and played it safe. Bleh. I'll stick to TNG and the next season of The Orville. :D
Nothing can really compare to the original 3
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I thought the whole thing felt like a merchandising cash grab. The attempt at comedy was not very good at all. Certain characters (you know who) died off fairly easily while others (you know who) should have and made absolutely no sense to me.
Some of the parts of the movie seemed like they were just stuffed in there to kill time and offered no value to the story.
I would go in more detail but, I don't want to spoil for those who have not seen it.
I also agree with Brian that the light speed jump scene was probably the best scene in the entire film!
I feel like everything will come together in the next one just like every third move in the series. Well pretty much watch the last one because we're OCD and have to complete the set.
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I watched it twice and enjoyed it both times. I'm a sap.
I'd like to say there was nothin as boring as a trade federation dispute, but unfortunately don't think I can
I liked it. I saw it once. I think I'll enjoy it more in context with the final film. I also liked TFA, too, even though I think Abrams is an overrated hack.
A filmmaker can have too much misdirection and too many mcguffins.
The only thing Star Wars I am looking forward to is the Obi-Wan movie. Mostly because I like Ewan McWhatshisname and I think he was the best part of the prequels. A grizzled OWK who doesn't give a crap about lightsabers or the Force would be a great movie.
Quote from: madbean on December 25, 2017, 12:19:20 AM
The only thing Star Wars I am looking forward to is the Obi-Wan movie. Mostly because I like Ewan McWhatshisname and I think he was the best part of the prequels. A grizzled OWK who doesn't give a crap about lightsabers or the Force would be a great movie.
Na, what they need is a movie full of ship chases and shootouts.
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What we need is a movie that has Imperials as the good side, fighting the evil rebel terrorists. Invert the whole dynamic. Instead of a plucky band of rebels, a band of Imperial brothers who fight to maintain order and who try to prevent the universe from falling into the chaos that used to be the Old Republic. Show us why Imperials fight, rather then just be faceless mooks.
Biggest problem with TLJ (and TFA) is...
Where for the love of Yoda does all this crap COME from?
Legions of men, enough resources to convert a bloody PLANET to a Mega-Deathstar, etc etc etc, ad nauseum, when post Ep6, what were the Imperials known as again... oh yeah, the Remnant. As in, bugger all of them actually LEFT.
Quote from: alanp on December 25, 2017, 08:01:00 PM
Biggest problem with TLJ (and TFA) is...
Where for the love of Yoda does all this crap COME from?
Legions of men, enough resources to convert a bloody PLANET to a Mega-Deathstar, etc etc etc, ad nauseum, when post Ep6, what were the Imperials known as again... oh yeah, the Remnant. As in, bugger all of them actually LEFT.
Yeah, but you got to remember, that stuff all happened in the books. And for as long as there were no new movies the books were pretty much canon. But now new movies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books. So unless those books still fit in with the new movies all that stuff, Imperial Remnant, Fell Empire, that's all pretty much out of the window. Either that or you have to remember what JJ did to Trek and imagine that the new movies are happening in an alternate universe as well.
Personally I think you're lucky if you get a decent story at all. You want it to make sense as well? Fit in with established lore? Come on! Be real! Disney wants to recoup its investment and milk you suckers until there's nothing left to milk. I pray to the God-Emperor that Disney never gets its hands on Games Workshop. 40K's lore is already pretty much FUBAR. I can't imagine what would happen if Disney were to get its hands on that as well.
Quote from: Muadzin on December 26, 2017, 11:45:43 AM
Disney wants to recoup its investment and milk you suckers until there's nothing left to milk.
They can still do that and have a story that makes sense. The state of the galaxy post-RotJ lets the stories write themselves. The Force Awakens went out of its way to create a situation where the First Order and Resistance have the same dynamic as the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, which is jarring because it doesn't make sense for them to be in similar positions without some serious story going on between RotJ and TFA. It all feels very forced.
As much as the new movies don't make any narrative sense, I think The Last Jedi really failed with its tone and constant attempts to undermine audience expectations. TFA tried so hard to ape ANH that it falls apart as a story, but it also succeeded in capturing the tone and sense of adventure of the original trilogy (something the prequels never did). The Last Jedi keeps trying to build up a darker ESB-like tone, but
consistently defuses that tone with humor throughout its entire runtime. When the OT was funny, it didn't break the tension or pace of any given scene. TLJ stops its own pacing dead in its tracks to deliver one-liners, and this makes it hard to get invested in the dramatic tension.
It would have been so much easier to just write a tight story that flowed logically from RotJ. No Star Killer Base, no stupid jokes. All they had to do was capture the feels of the OT, and Abrams did that part well with TFA. But TFA put actual
effort into making no sense just so it could mirror ANH, and TLJ put even more effort into moving Star Wars into jokesy Marvel territory while also failing to explain any of the things from TFA that begged explanation. All we want is something that feels like Star Wars and doesn't insult us with dumb BS. That's not hard to do.
It says Star Wars on it, so people will go see it and buy the toys. But better movies could have been made with the same amount of effort, which is the reason these movies are so frustrating.
the novilization of TFA does a decent job of explaining the reisistance/ First Order dynamic.
I'm curious what got changed in TLJ after Carrie Fisher died. I feel like the whole beginning battle would have fit better at the end of the movie. A lot of it felt like a climax not an intro. And being at the end of the movie they could have avoided giving a new crazy force power to somebody who hasn't been trained as a Jedi.
mremic01 and matmosphere are right on the money, as far as I'm concerned. I will go see it a second time (never done that with any movie), because I want to go see it in 2D, as not to be stupified by IMAX 3D...
Quote from: mremic01 on December 26, 2017, 03:37:02 PM
They can still do that and have a story that makes sense.
It says Star Wars on it, so people will go see it and buy the toys. But better movies could have been made with the same amount of effort, which is the reason these movies are so frustrating.
Of course they could have done so. I've read fan fiction that was better written then TFA.
I've written better fan fiction then the last Star Wars movies. Thing is though, a fan fic writer generally works alone. The failing or success of his or her story is theirs alone. With SW there are an infinite number of drafts of the script, with an infinite number of people getting involved with the rewrites. For various reasons. In the end maybe the biggest surprise is not why most movies have bland mediocre stories, but why occasionally a movie with a good story manages to sneak past the system.
Quote from: Matmosphere on December 26, 2017, 04:03:48 PM
the novilization of TFA does a decent job of explaining the reisistance/ First Order dynamic.
Novilizations always tend to do a better job at explaining things that movies left unanswered. Probably because the writers themselves feel the need to make sense of the plotholes. And unlike with movie scripts there's not a whole lot of interference of movie execs to muck things up.
QuoteI'm curious what got changed in TLJ after Carrie Fisher died. I feel like the whole beginning battle would have fit better at the end of the movie. A lot of it felt like a climax not an intro. And being at the end of the movie they could have avoided giving a new crazy force power to somebody who hasn't been trained as a Jedi.
Considering TFA that seems to be a theme with these movies. Crazy Force powers for everyone! No need to go to Dagobah and collect 200 Jedi points!
Quote from: Muadzin on December 27, 2017, 07:49:40 PM
Considering TFA that seems to be a theme with these movies. Crazy Force powers for everyone! No need to go to Dagobah and collect 200 Jedi points!
I imagine this is an issue with how the writers want to present the Force to the audience. If you're the writer, and you know that the audience has seen what's possible with the Force by watching Luke develop, you have two basic choices: show the audience yet another character starting from nothing and learning about Force over time (something they've already seen), or supercharge the new character so that you can show new things being done right away, even if it doesn't make sense within the story. This picks up where we left off with the Force so we don't have to retread narrative ground. For TFA and TLJ, they chose the latter.
Could they have done something more nuanced that accomplishes both? Definitely. We could have seen Rey learning from scratch, but beginner-level Force skills that we haven't seen before. But that would take some thought. Thought that distracts from X-Wings going pew pew.
You get the force, you get the force, you get the force, everyone gets the force!!!!
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Can I have the sword skills of Inigo Montoya, instead? (Inigo because a touch of alcoholism is probably more acceptable, socially, than becoming a pirate (aka seafaring-murderous-thief.))
We saw it last night. I liked it, had fun watching it, and would watch it again if it was on, which is how I feel about everything so far but the prequels.
Lexa commented that she thought it was too funny and the new movies lack some gravitas. I do agree with that criticism to some extent, but I laughed at the one-liners and clapped during the last light saber battle.
My only real criticism is a structural one. One of the neat things about Lucas's original trilogies for Star Wars and Indiana Jones was that in addition to paying homage to old series -- which, by the way, are literally nothing but the equivalent of X-wings going pew-pew -- they used the structure of the serials as well. Pay attention to how much time is spent on, essentially, the same location. Modern narrative structure had already eschewed this by the time those movies were released, but it's actually (I think) an important part of their charm. So despite the new movies doing their best attempt to manipulate or rehash the older plots, they feel like watching a different type of movie.
What I really don't understand is everyone arguing about the logic of space wizards using space magic in any of the movies. The force has never been anything but a plot device for any character, so IMO unless you're specifically told in-universe by scrolling text that something is impossible, it's fair game, just like each new Harry Potter book was allowed to get a new spell or two that may have neatly solved some other problem the characters had in a previous novel. It's magic. You can either be sour about not getting what you personally want the story to be, or you can turn off your brain and have fun. And it might do to remember that it doesn't matter how much eastern philosophy and Joseph Campbell people want to project on them, that's all the movies were ever supposed to be: a love letter to watching star ships go pew pew pew. I think Abrams actually gets that, even if he decided to present the stories in a structure that I wouldn't have preferred if I had my druthers.
It's interesting watching the progression of the lightsabre fights. ANH was really just a kendo fight with glowing sticks and an old man trying to spin. Luke's beatdown of Vader in ROTJ is probably a favourite. The prequel trilogy are too flashy, imo.
The Vader corridor rampage in Rogue One was worth the price of admission, and the fight in TLJ was great.
I really enjoyed TLJ. Watched it twice already :P
IMO a better movie than the Force Awakens, which was too much of a rehash of A New Hope (which I didn't mind that much being the first movie to reboot the franchise and all, but a new death star? come on...).
TLJ has many similarities to The Empire Strikes Back aswell, but at least it's much more subtle, and the storyline is somewhat original. It could have been better. I didn't like the whole casino-world scene(s) and some of the comic relief didn't work for me, but overall I think it's a good movie.
I loved the lightsaber fights. Great choreography without being over the top.
*NERD ALERT!* Me and a couple of friends made a couple of fan films many years ago for the annual theforce.net lightsaber choreography contest. I was behind the camera. We ended up first place in 2007 and second place in 2005 (out of 10-15 groups of contestants from all over the world) ;D 8) :P
Quote from: Freppo on December 28, 2017, 05:15:40 PM
I really enjoyed TLJ. Watched it twice already :P
IMO a better movie than the Force Awakens, which was too much of a rehash of A New Hope (which I didn't mind that much being the first movie to reboot the franchise and all, but a new death star? come on...).
TLJ has many similarities to The Empire Strikes Back aswell, but at least it's much more subtle, and the storyline is somewhat original. It could have been better. I didn't like the whole casino-world scene(s) and some of the comic relief didn't work for me, but overall I think it's a good movie.
I pretty much agree with all of this.
I thought it was a very good movie overall. There was maybe a little too much humor, but all of it was actually funny, so it's excusable. I also agree it had several echoes of Empire, but they weren't overkill. Empire was the best movie of the bunch, so there are worse films to reference. And the plot went places I didn't expect, which is a major improvement from the last 4 Episode films (excluding Rogue One).
TLJ was much better than TFA, in my opinion. And how can a Bencio Del Toro cameo be wrong?
Finally saw this on Saturday night... (almost had the theatre to ourselves, it was perfect!)
I liked it, beautiful cinematography and digital effects. Well, the bar is pretty high, but I thought the previous release TLJ was a better film overall (didn't really like Rogue One). However, TLJ was too long for me, the casino planet scene was unnecessary imho. Some of the dialogue (sarcasm) was a little surprising, funny but not what I'd come to expect from Star Wars. The cute critters were cool. Also recurring themes from the original films were an interesting talking point after the movie. Overall a great watch.
Quote from: Freppo on December 28, 2017, 05:15:40 PM
*NERD ALERT!* Me and a couple of friends made a couple of fan films many years ago for the annual theforce.net lightsaber choreography contest. I was behind the camera. We ended up first place in 2007 and second place in 2005 (out of 10-15 groups of contestants from all over the world) ;D 8) :P
This is epic! Great job putting these together Freppo! :)
Quote from: Willybomb on December 28, 2017, 06:14:23 AM
It's interesting watching the progression of the lightsabre fights. ANH was really just a kendo fight with glowing sticks and an old man trying to spin. Luke's beatdown of Vader in ROTJ is probably a favourite. The prequel trilogy are too flashy, imo.
The Vader corridor rampage in Rogue One was worth the price of admission, and the fight in TLJ was great.
The change in fighting styles can be explained by the fact that Kenobi was old and couldn't fight like he used to, and Luke never had anyone to teach him the fancy stuff. It actually makes sense.
Vader in R1 is something I want to see a whole lot of. The fight in TLJ was excellent, but I wish there'd been an actual saber-on-saber fight. But I didn't even realize it was absent from the film until I got home.
[quote ;Dauthor=jposega link=topic=26532.msg262967#msg262967 date=1514914121]
Vader in R1 is something I want to see a whole lot of.[/quote]
Watching him wreck shop on that rebel ship was mind-blowing.
That's the first time I've ever thought the Jedi were more than just laser sword wielding magicians. Vader in that scene was just plain terrifying. As he should be to non force users.
Quote from: juansolo on January 02, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
That's the first time I've ever thought the Jedi were more than just laser sword wielding magicians. Vader in that scene was just plain terrifying. As he should be to non force users.
As he should be to the movie going public in general. But then nobody wants to buy the toy of the bad guy.
Quote from: jposega on January 02, 2018, 05:28:41 PM
The fight in TLJ was excellent, but I wish there'd been an actual saber-on-saber fight. But I didn't even realize it was absent from the film until I got home.
I actually thought the closest thing to a lightsaber battle was the fight between Finn and Phasma, and I think that was intentionally done.
The throne room thing was a great scene but wasn't very Star Wars. It was a fight from a Kirosawa movie that they put in the middle of a Star Wars movie. No complaints from me though, it was fun to watch and I want to watch it again.
That Vader hallway scene in TFA was amazingly tense even though I knew how it was going to pan out.
Quote from: nzCdog on January 01, 2018, 10:09:26 PM
This is epic! Great job putting these together Freppo! :)
Thanks :)
It was fun making them, but a huga PITA to draw the lightsaber effects (frame by frame). :P
Regarding fight style and choreography, the original triology was mainly western swordplay influenced.
Then kung fu in the prequels. Ray Park (the actor playing Darth Maul) is a wushu practicioner (not much of an actor).
I think they have hit a good balance between different styles of martial arts in TLJ. Good choreography, but noting too over the top.
I also loved the Vader scene in R1.. But I loved the whole movie. I think Rogue One is better than both TFA and TLJ.
I'm with Freppo on this, I really enjoyed Rogue One (It'll always be Rouge One to me). It's not perfect, I think I could edit some of the slack from it quite easily, and I think some of their demises were a bit throwaway. That said, I still like it because it was an adventure. You knew the group were doomed as soon as you realised that the whole plot was the opening crawl to Star Wars. But, it made me want to watch the original trilogy again straight afterwards. I see it as part of them now.
The prequels concentrated too much on trying to explain EVERYTHING. The senate, the clone wars, the origin of Vader, the downfall of the republic, the rise of the empire/emperor. Hell it even tried to explain how the force worked. That just doesn't make an interesting film. The original trilogy just glossed over things and left them a mystery. You knew from the moment Vader walks on the ship, he's completely bad ass, and he does nothing really. You know the force is essentially magic that maintains the balance of good and evil in the galaxy (for want of a better description) and people who learn to channel it are more powerful because of this. You know the Millenium Falcon is both a piece of junk and really fast. You don't need to see or even know what the kessel run is to know that. It's just a throwaway line. Everyone's reaction to the ship tells you all about it. Han straight up kills a bounty hunter the moment you meet him, you know he's a rogue. It goes on.
Star Wars is actually a tight film. But it's also a fairy tale in a sci-fi wrapper with old serial trappings. It works really well as that. As soon as you start explaining things it goes off the rails. Mystical things like the clone wars become a dull battle between loads of identical droids and loads of disposable Kiwis. The force becomes a blood disorder. The Empire, a bit of clever politics by a politician. Vader, a petulant child.
The Force Awakens I understand what they were doing with it. It was, in essence, a Star Wars reboot for the next generation. It was the first 3 films wrapped into one, and where it's enjoyable in the moment, it's disappointing afterwards when you realise it. I think it's biggest failure was putting the original cast anywhere in there. They shouldn't have done that at all. The Skywalker arc was done with ROTJ, move on. It's the universe that's interesting. The games are more interesting when they tackle other things, even when you play from the Empire's POV it can be interesting as, let's face it, it's easy to see them as the good guys just trying to bring piece in the galaxy and the rebels as terrorists trying to overthrow a government.
But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already. From TFA, you've got a really layered and by far the most interesting character in Kylo Ren. His inner conflict is awesome to watch. Rey is likable enough. Finn and Poe are a bit one dimensional, but again, likeable enough.
I'll get around to watching TLJ eventually, but in all honesty as a lifelong Star Wars fan, I'm just not bothered for it.
Quote from: Matmosphere on January 02, 2018, 09:05:17 PM
As he should be to the movie going public in general. But then nobody wants to buy the toy of the bad guy.
All those guys who love to dress up as storm troopers beg to differ. If anything I'd say the Imperials are way cooler then the rebels to the fanbase. I'd say when it comes to merchandise its lightsabers, imperial uniforms, imperial walkers, jedi stuff, droids and X-wings. Somewhat in that order.
QuoteI actually thought the closest thing to a lightsaber battle was the fight between Finn and Phasma, and I think that was intentionally done.
The throne room thing was a great scene but wasn't very Star Wars. It was a fight from a Kirosawa movie that they put in the middle of a Star Wars movie. No complaints from me though, it was fun to watch and I want to watch it again.
Considering that Star Wars is a rip off (or hommage) of a Kirosawa movie (The Hidden Fortress), I'd say that fight
is Star Wars.
Quote from: juansolo on January 03, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already.
You'll probably like it then, because there is not a whole lot of old character screen time. Some, but not a whole lot (don't want to get into detail and spoil it for you). And maybe you'll like that the movie's central theme is "just move on". It's a meme repeated over and over throughout the dialog.
Several friends who are longtime fans said they thought it was much better on the second go around. I'm going to have to find some time and an excuse to see it again.
I have a little theory that makes a big plot hole make sense but I don't know that the movie hints at it or it's just wishful thinking on my part.
Quote from: juansolo on January 03, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
I'm with Freppo on this, I really enjoyed Rogue One (It'll always be Rouge One to me). It's not perfect, I think I could edit some of the slack from it quite easily, and I think some of their demises were a bit throwaway. That said, I still like it because it was an adventure. You knew the group were doomed as soon as you realised that the whole plot was the opening crawl to Star Wars. But, it made me want to watch the original trilogy again straight afterwards. I see it as part of them now.
Pratchett had a good point in one of his Science of Discworld books -- you know, in a Bond movie, that James Bond is going to win. Duh. Just like, when you're participating in a magic card trick, that you're going to lose.
You're watching in order to see a trick done well, or a story told well.
Quote from: juansolo on January 03, 2018, 09:18:18 AMStar Wars is actually a tight film. But it's also a fairy tale in a sci-fi wrapper with old serial trappings. It works really well as that. As soon as you start explaining things it goes off the rails. Mystical things like the clone wars become a dull battle between loads of identical droids and loads of disposable Kiwis. The force becomes a blood disorder. The Empire, a bit of clever politics by a politician. Vader, a petulant child.
Awww, disposable Kiwis? :(
More seriously, it always felt a bit odd to see that kind of self-discipline from Jake the Muss. Temuera Morrison will always be the abusive, broken, angry man from _Once Were Warriors_, to me. (Just like he'll always be a mildmannered doctor from the serial _Shortland Street_ to others :) )
Quote from: Muadzin on January 03, 2018, 12:06:50 PM
Considering that Star Wars is a rip off (or hommage) of a Kirosawa movie (The Hidden Fortress), I'd say that fight is Star Wars.
Star Wars was originally an homage to a lot of things. If you read old interviews with Lucas, it seems he had different ideas for it at different times and it all kind of coalesced into several different drafts of varying quality that his friends helped him tweak. He was slated to direct Apocalypse Now, but it didn't pan out, so he described it
his Vietnam War movie for awhile. Then he got into Akira Kurosawa's films and toyed with doing a remake of The Hidden Fortress. A lot of the elements from The Hidden Fortress show Up in Star Wars, particularly the idea of having the action come from the perspective of two bumbling peasants/droids. But Star Wars departs from the The Hidden Fortress too much to be just a sci-fi themed westernization of the same story. Then Lucas goes on about the old sci-fi serials like Buck Rogers, usually in the context of how he intended to break things up into multiple episodes. He also pays homage to The Searchers, a pretty great western where John Wayne plays a racist anti-hero. That scene with Owen and Beru's smoking corpses is meant to be a direct reference to that movie. Even a lot of the cinematography on Tatooine is done in a similar style to the desert shots in The Searchers.
Then there's a little bit of Dune in there too, but I think Lucas keeps quite about that. I draw the line between ripoff and homage where the creator admits influence. Lucas is open about most of his influences, but I've never heard him mention Dune. But it's also possible that the similarities between Arakkis and Tatooine weren't intentional, so who knows.
Quote from: culturejam on January 03, 2018, 02:42:32 PM
Quote from: juansolo on January 03, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already.
You'll probably like it then, because there is not a whole lot of old character screen time. Some, but not a whole lot (don't want to get into detail and spoil it for you). And maybe you'll like that the movie's central theme is "just move on". It's a meme repeated over and over throughout the dialog.
Definitely more interested now *thumbs up*
Watching TLJ has had me in a starwars-ish mood. We watched Rogue 1 and then the original trilogy over the last few days. It's really fun having seen Luke in his most mature form and then going back and watching him as the whiny youngster. For me there is really believable continuity. I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise. With Luke it's hook line and sinker for me. I'm looking forward to watching it a third time while it's still in the theater.
I also really enjoy the arc that Kylo's character is taking. His struggle is palpable and his fits of rage are believable and terrifying. And they seem to only be escalating which is kind of fun.
I think the reason the comic relief in TLJ isn't working for a lot of people is because a lot of the comedy isn't really relief. It's just there. But I think it's fitting for the characters in play. What makes Poe funny, for example, can't be what made Han funny. That would be insulting. The first bit of humor felt out of place initially to me because of its juxtaposition against the threatening monologuing that was going on. It felt a bit more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars until I accounted for the personalities of the characters at play. It felt weird in terms of pacing but true to the characters. Speaking of Guardians of the Galaxy, there was a certain part with a certain general that felt like a bit of a ripoff.
Quote from: Leevibe on January 03, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise.
The reason it's hard to buy in to Anakin becoming Vader is because both actors that portrayed Anakin were directed to act terribly and it ruined the whole plot line. As a concept, it's perfectly believable, in my opinion. Leia is believable to me as well. There's nothing that she's done in these last two Episode films that seems out of line with her history as a leader of a rebellion, at least not to me.
Quote from: LeevibeThe first bit of humor felt out of place initially to me because of its juxtaposition against the threatening monologuing that was going on. It felt a bit more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars until I accounted for the personalities of the characters at play.
I agree that the first bit of humor seemed over the top. But really, that's how Poe deals with stress (and if you're about to do something that will likely get you killed, why not joke around?). And General Hux has a stick so far up his ass that he doesn't realize the humor. I know people like that, so it ended up being super funny to me.
Quote from: culturejam on January 04, 2018, 12:42:25 AM
Quote from: Leevibe on January 03, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise.
The reason it's hard to buy in to Anakin becoming Vader is because both actors that portrayed Anakin were directed to act terribly and it ruined the whole plot line. As a concept, it's perfectly believable, in my opinion.
I think it was not just the poor acting, the storyline was unbelievable too. On the one hand we have a character we should root for having a tragic fall, but we don't root for him because we hate his guts. And on the other hand his tragic fall was just plain stupid. Again, I have seen fan fiction with better storylines and execution handle things better then Lucas did with the prequels. It was just badly written. Him going Dark Side over some vision? At the very least show us, the audience his vision. Repeatedly. In all the gore and technicolor. Show us why he was so troubled. But that aside, if it were up to me I'd have him go Dark Side over the death of his mother. Let him find out it was some Sith. And let him go over the course of three movies slowly but surely become consumed by a burning desire for vengeance, until not even the love of his wife and his friendships could save him until he kills the Sith responsible. And by doing so become the very thing he despises. And let him be actually likable. A person that others would willingly follow into battle. And drag with him into his fall.
Freppo, I reckon I saw both those videos back when they were first done. Someone posted them to the overclockers.com.au forums, I think..
I didn't know that Kylo Ren served US Marine previously.
Quote from: Willybomb on January 04, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
Freppo, I reckon I saw both those videos back when they were first done. Someone posted them to the overclockers.com.au forums, I think..
Haha, cool. It's a small world. :)
Quote from: Muadzin on January 04, 2018, 10:08:28 AM
I think it was not just the poor acting, the storyline was unbelievable too. On the one hand we have a character we should root for having a tragic fall, but we don't root for him because we hate his guts. And on the other hand his tragic fall was just plain stupid. Again, I have seen fan fiction with better storylines and execution handle things better then Lucas did with the prequels. It was just badly written. Him going Dark Side over some vision? At the very least show us, the audience his vision. Repeatedly. In all the gore and technicolor. Show us why he was so troubled. But that aside, if it were up to me I'd have him go Dark Side over the death of his mother. Let him find out it was some Sith. And let him go over the course of three movies slowly but surely become consumed by a burning desire for vengeance, until not even the love of his wife and his friendships could save him until he kills the Sith responsible. And by doing so become the very thing he despises. And let him be actually likable. A person that others would willingly follow into battle. And drag with him into his fall.
This. Breaking Bad is a better transition to the dark side.