Hi to all!
I'm Mickey and I've got problems with my Aquaboy.
I've built a lot of pedals so I'm not a newbie. I also done a Deluxe Memory Man delay clone so this isn't the first time I build an analog delay.
The problem is that I got no delay! In bypass mode I get dry sound, when the pedal is engaged I'v got dry sound too. If I turn the knobs no results at all.
If I use a probe to test pin 3/4 of IC3 I only listen a "whii" sound.
I built it yesterday and today I've made some measurement.
Here's the results:
IC1
-----
PIN1 - 4.5
PIN2 - 4.5
PIN3 - 4.5
PIN4 - 0
PIN5 - 4.5
PIN6 - 4.5
PIN7 - 4.5
PIN8 - 9
IC2
-----
PIN1 - 0.85
PIN2 - 1.8
PIN3 - 1.8
PIN4 - 0
PIN5 - 1.8
PIN6 - 1.8
PIN7 - 2.8
PIN8 - 1.8
PIN9 - 1.8
PIN10 - 3
PIN11 - 3
PIN12 - 1.8
PIN13 - 9
PIN14 - 1.8
PIN15 - 1.8
PIN16 - 0.08
IC3
-----
PIN1 - 8.9
PIN2 - 3.99
PIN3 - 6.77
PIN4 - 6.77
PIN5 - 0
PIN6 - 3.95
PIN7 - 4.26
PIN8 - 7.77
IC5
-----
PIN1 - 8.33
PIN2 - 3.95
PIN3 - 0
PIN4 - 3.99
PIN5 - 4.09
PIN6 - 4.15
PIN7 - 4.12
PIN8 - 7.77
The delay chip is an Xvive 3005
The Clock is an MN3101
The Compander is a CoolAudio V571D (I also tried a genuine Panasonic NE570, same results)
As You see I have some very wrong Voltage (I marked the most extreme in red)...
Can someone help me please?
Thanks So Much!
Did you audio probe your compander output? It's biased too low, probably the problem.
Thanks for Your reply!
I just probe the compander pin7 (OUT1) and I've got signal.
Which parts of the circuits do I check? I'm afraid of PIN8 on both IC3 and IC5. As reference the v must be 0.59, I've got 7.77 on both.
Right you are, for some reason I was thinking you'd built the 3205 version.
Where did you get the 3101? I wonder if it's a relabelled 3102.
Don't know that there are also a 3205 version.
I bought the pcb directly from Madbean. For the building info I refer to the suggested manual. The Pcb is the blue one, the 2016 version I think.
The 3101 has been bought from Musikding.de site and I don't think it's a fake.. all components came from musikding/banzai so I believe they're genuine..
Are there anything I can do to make it works?
Here's a picture of the board:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jmwVYz/IMG_8515.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dVa2fe)
In case of it would helps...
Hi there.
What I see is that IC5 doesn't produce the good Vgg. And as it get the right voltage on pin 1, I'll check every components attached to IC5: C29 first, R40/41/42, C30, Trimmer and Delay Pot. maybe D2 too?
I guess you don't have any other mn3101 for testing?
Hi!
Following your instruction I replaced c30 and c29 with new cap. r40/41/42 are the right value.
Trimmers seem to work. The delay pot is brand new Alpha so I think the problem isn't in it.
I haven't checked D2.
I make a check and the situation is the same. Unfortunately I have only one MN3101.
Do you suggest me to directly buy another one or the problem can be in some other areas of the circuit? Thanks So!
Scruffie is the real guy about BDD circuit so I'll wait his input.
To the limit of my knowledge, I see that IC5 have only one input (pin 1 - Vdd) and it gives 2 important signals: CP1/2 & Vgg.
IC3 cannot works with a bad Vgg and yours his way too high. And it seems that IC5 have a good input Vdd so I guess the problem is with it.
It happen to simply have bad mn3101 even with a good source like banzai or musikding, it happened to me.
If you can't buy another one, and if you are in Europe, I can send you one for test purpose.
You MN3101 is actually an MN3102. How do I know? MN3102 produces the correct Vgg voltage for the MN3205 without any external circuitry. The correct Vgg voltage for an MN3205 is 14/15 of Vd.
Your voltages: 8.33Vd, 7.77Vgg
8.33 * 14/15 is 7.77!
This trick might work or it might not: ground pin 8 of your fake MN3101 to see if you can get delay out of the MN3005. If not, get yourself an genuine MN3101 and your problem should be solved.
Quote from: madbean on August 05, 2018, 01:09:17 PM
You MN3101 is actually and MN3102. How do I know? MN3102 produces the correct Vgg voltage for the MN3205 without any external circuitry. The correct Vgg voltage for an MN3205 is 14/15 of Vd.
Your voltages: 8.33Vd, 7.77Vgg
8.33 * 14/15 is 7.77!
This trick might work or it might not: ground pin 8 of your fake MN3101 to see if you can get delay out of the MN3005. If not, get yourself an genuine MN3101 and your problem should be solved.
BTW: the correct Vgg voltage for the MN3101 in this case should be Vd*(1-14/15) = 8.33*0.067 = 0.56v
Thanks so much!!!
I never thought that a serious supplier can have fake goods.
I've ordered from another supplier a new mn chip. It will arrive mid week.
I'll try it with it and I'll tell You.
Zombiesonore I really appreciate your offer. I'll try the new chip and I'll tell you if your chip is needed. I live in Italy (Europe). And thanks so much again
I just grabbed a MN3101 from my parts box and the voltage divider is made from a 14.5k & 1.2k resistor... so you could put a 100R resistor from pin 8 to pin 3 of the '3101' to get the right voltage.
Thanks So Much Scruffie! I've just soldered a 100R between pin 3 and 8 of the mn3101.
This evening I'll give a test. ;)
Here I am!
I tried soldering the 100R. The check at pin 8 is +-0.6V.
I tried to probe the mn3005 output but there are the same wiiii sound.
By the end of the week I'll receive a genuine mn 3101 ( I asked to the supplier and it has confirmed that is genuine.Let' hope!).
I'll update You soon and thanks again for support!
Here I am!
The MN3101 is arrived! The pedal now works!
I've got some further questions.
1)I haven't got a frequency measurement on my DMM. Using a probe attached to pin 3 of the MN3005 Turning the clock trim I hear that the wiii sound at a certain point disappear and I have reps. Is it the "sweet spot" point? Or are there other ways to calibrate the clock?
2)I socketed c14 (82nf) and c30 (100pf). Do I get big differences using a 100nf instead of the 82nf in c14? And increasing c30 do I get more delay time?
Thanks So Much
Quote from: mickey.bellinello on August 07, 2018, 01:40:30 PM
Here I am!
The MN3101 is arrived! The pedal now works!
I've got some further questions.
1)I haven't got a frequency measurement on my DMM. Using a probe attached to pin 3 of the MN3005 Turning the clock trim I hear that the wiii sound at a certain point disappear and I have reps. Is it the "sweet spot" point? Or are there other ways to calibrate the clock?
2)I socketed c14 (82nf) and c30 (100pf). Do I get big differences using a 100nf instead of the 82nf in c14? And increasing c30 do I get more delay time?
Thanks So Much
Where did you get your MN3101? I'm having similar issues with my Aqua Boy and I'm getting back around to it now.
Hi!
I bought the fake ones from Musikding site.
The good one comes from eBay. The supplier is italian (I live in Italy) and his name is ipertronica-it
Hope it helps
Quote from: mickey.bellinello on August 15, 2018, 04:58:39 PM
I bought the fake ones from Musikding site.
m
You should let the guy from Musikding know, I find him pretty responsive and helpful.
Glad you got it working!! :)
QuoteYou should let the guy from Musikding know, I find him pretty responsive and helpful.
Yes, I insist. I think the Musikding team will be interested in the fact that some of their mn3101 are really 3102.
Mind the fact that he's in vacation right know.
I'm just saying: I have bought good mn3101 from musikding and banzaimusic.
Here I am.
I'm not criticizing Musikding. It's my main suppliers and this is the first time I had a problem.
Thanks for the comments, when I wrote it I didn't think that in the way it's written the post could "damage" this supplier.
Probably an edit is needed? Please tell me.
In any way..I say it again.. Musikding is my primary supplier.. It's a lot of year I order from them and no problems at all.
XVIVE should probably make a repro of the MN3101 since they are already doing the MN3005. I guess the demand is smaller for it, though. I'm sure EHX is a big customer and the DMM doesn't use the MN3101.
Quote from: madbean on August 16, 2018, 09:44:58 AM
XVIVE should probably make a repro of the MN3101 since they are already doing the MN3005. I guess the demand is smaller for it, though. I'm sure EHX is a big customer and the DMM doesn't use the MN3101.
Oddly, they do make a 3102 even though they don't make any 32XX chips.
I recently ordered four of the "nos" mn3101 from Banzai and they appear to be mn3102 as well. The were cheap so I suspected that it may be 2good2btrue, but I took a shot anyway. I just built an aquababy and couldn't get it to work until I tried Scruffie's 100r trick. It still doesn't give much feedback but at least I can hear the delayed signal.
Quote from: Aentons on March 31, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
I recently ordered four of the "nos" mn3101 from Banzai and they appear to be mn3102 as well.
Hi have you tried buying it from Musikding? I see that they have several kits of pedals that include MN3101 chips. ;)
Quote from: mickey.bellinello on March 31, 2021, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: Aentons on March 31, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
I recently ordered four of the "nos" mn3101 from Banzai and they appear to be mn3102 as well.
Hi have you tried buying it from Musikding? I see that they have several kits of pedals that include MN3101 chips. ;)
No, I'm in the US so it was a long shot.
I have successfully bought BBDs and clocks from UTsource (including 3101s), that were all real and functioning. I tried to get some more rare stuff like BA6110 and TA7136P but those were duds. I get the impression that they are pulling parts from old gear, but I've been satisfied with most of my purchases.
I have successful bought bbds from cabintech and synthcube.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I got my mn3005s from synthcube so I know they are good. I wish they had some 3101s but they don't. I almost tried utsource but I didn't feel like dealing with them. I have a few from a positively rated ebay seller on the way. I'll report back once I test them. Thanks for the tips guys
Doesn't small bear stock MN3101s?
Quote from: benny_profane on April 01, 2021, 03:06:50 AM
Doesn't small bear stock MN3101s?
Yep. That's where I got mine.
Quote from: PapaKev on April 01, 2021, 03:24:07 AM
Quote from: benny_profane on April 01, 2021, 03:06:50 AM
Doesn't small bear stock MN3101s?
Yep. That's where I got mine.
Yep, they are $8 a pop... plus shipping. Nothing against SB... I was just playing my hand at getting a few on the cheap.
I tested 2 of the five ebay chips and they appear to be legit. Voltages are correct and they produce long delay times. It worked out to about $3.40 each
Seller name:
Dmjm5901
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MN3101-IC-CLOCK-GEN-DRIVER-BBD-AUDIO-AMP-DELAY-EFFECT-8-PIN-DIP-5-PER-LOT-/152943710463?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286