(https://i.imgur.com/m9M6QQm.jpg)
My son asked for some juice, I promptly got it for him put my wife on speaker phone and set the phone down. Little guy wanted to ask mom something and knocked my guitar over, headstock shot off like a rocket! what a great way to start my birthday.
Any one ever fix something like this? Should I take it to a luthier or diy it.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 03:24:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/m9M6QQm.jpg)
My son asked for some juice, I promptly got it for him put my wife on speaker phone and set the phone down. Little guy wanted to ask mom something and knocked my guitar over, headstock shot off like a rocket! what a great way to start my birthday.
Any one ever fix something like this? Should I take it to a luthier or diy it.
Ouch, I'm really sorry that happened.
Personally, I would take it to a luthier. You might be able to fix it yourself, but they will likely be able to make it stronger and look nicer. The better ones I've seen used splines for a complete break like that.
I know when Feline fix breaks they put carbon fibre rods in there... Reckon it's s luthier job to do it properly.
I watched THIS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owbEThXSACE) the other day. Your break seems easier to fix because its longer and hopefully has no pieces missing. Still very annoying and sad, you have my sympathies :'(.
Thank you for the sympathy! I am still shocked, I feel bad as the little guy started crying and told me to fix it right now.
The break is clean, nothing is missing and after removing all of the tuners the head stock fits back on like a glove. I have not used any luthiers in my area and am also tentative letting anyone touch my babies.
In that case I would probably try to fix it myself. What a luthier will probably do better though is fix it cosmetically. Also, happy birthday!
Oh man, that hurts a LOT!!!
Looks like you have a lot of surface for gluing, so that's good. A good glue joint can be stronger than the wood itself, so hopefully you'll be fine in the long run. If you're going to do it yourself, make sure you do a solid dry run with your clamping before you start putting glue on it.
Good luck!
If you're uncertain, take to a luthier. If you glue it and mess it up, you're then screwed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I feel bad for your son too. It can be quite traumatic for a small kid to see that their parent isn't able to fully control the world around them all the time and is, in fact, vulnerable to sudden harm. Doubly traumatic to realize that they caused the harm. At least no people were physically injured (I assume).
I feel terrible for him, I just hung up the phone and went "uggh that happened". I just picked him up and told him it was an accident, no big deal.
I found a luthier by me i am going to send pictures to and get a quote if its a reasonable price i may got that route. What i am leaning more towards is saving myself some cash and doing it myself, film the whole process and with the money saved get an airbrush to use to paint my pedals.
Decisions decisions
Happy birthday, by the way. ;)
Quote from: EBK on April 03, 2019, 07:43:14 PM
Happy birthday, by the way. ;)
Thank you! The mighty 35, let loose the gray hair and bald spot!
That spot is really weak on Gibsons, and they frequently break there so I'm sure most luthier's have fixed tons of them.
If you want to diy it then hop on a guitar building or repairing forum and post some picks and talk to guys with a lot of experience doing that stuff. They might be able to help you decide what to do.
I know the Tele Home Depot over at tdpri.com is an amazing group, and can be really helpful. I might start there if I were you. I made a (bad) guitar a few years ago and it would have been much worse without those guys.
I think the gold standard is to use hot Hyde glue for those repairs. it can be a very strong (as mentioned above, stronger than the wood) joint when done. But the glue is heated and needs to be worked with pretty quickly before it cools down, and if you mess it up it will be much worse to fix at that point.
Happy Birthday BTW
I've used poly urethane glue when building guitars in the past. It's stronger than the wood, but you do need to clamp it while it dries, as it foams and expands. You will need to wipe it as it bubbles out of the gaps, and you can end up with a mess if you leave it alone for too long.
If you do decide to diy, I would suggest you get a few bits of cheap pine off cuts and try whatever glue you use first, to get an idea for how it works.
Ohhh bummer! :(
Damn, that sucks!
If it were me, I'd go to a luthier. But I don't know what your woodworking skill level is. Mine level is "the suck".
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 04:26:57 PM
The break is clean, nothing is missing and after removing all of the tuners the head stock fits back on like a glove. I have not used any luthiers in my area and am also tentative letting anyone touch my babies.
From what I've heard, it's best to get this professionally fixed by someone who genuinely groks what to do.
Also, not good to touch the bare wood -- if your finger oils get worked in, pre-glue, or the wood grains get bent or damaged, I've been told that it adversely affects the strength of the fixed headstock.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 03:24:56 PM
Any one ever fix something like this?
Probably just about every luthier ever? I reckon that luthiers are able to put their kids into college from repairing broken Gibson headstocks alone. ;D
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 03, 2019, 07:53:20 PM
That spot is really weak on Gibsons, and they frequently break there so I'm sure most luthier's have fixed tons of them.
Ye olde broken Gibson headstock. That's what you get for making the whole neck out of a single piece of wood. Broken headstocks and incredible waste of wood. Bad for the customer, bad for the environment. But, that's how it was done in the 1950's, and as everyone knows that's how they got it right the first time so that is how it should be done for ever and ever. As Gibson learned the hard way with their last models. Any deviation from the original design and guitarists start to whine.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 06:56:07 PM
I feel terrible for him, I just hung up the phone and went "uggh that happened". I just picked him up and told him it was an accident, no big deal.
Guitars get broken and get fixed. A Gibson headstock popping off is nothing too exciting despite the gore; however, keeping cool and caring more about your boy, that is solid parenting. Great job man!
Quote from: timbo_93631 on April 04, 2019, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 06:56:07 PM
I feel terrible for him, I just hung up the phone and went "uggh that happened". I just picked him up and told him it was an accident, no big deal.
Guitars get broken and get fixed. A Gibson headstock popping off is nothing too exciting despite the gore; however, keeping cool and caring more about your boy, that is solid parenting. Great job man!
Yeah, no kidding. I'd be terribly bummed out if that happened to one of my Gibsons. Good for you for putting your son's feelings above the disappointment.
Quote from: Muadzin on April 04, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 03:24:56 PM
Any one ever fix something like this?
Probably just about every luthier ever? I reckon that luthiers are able to put their kids into college from repairing broken Gibson headstocks alone. ;D
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 03, 2019, 07:53:20 PM
That spot is really weak on Gibsons, and they frequently break there so I'm sure most luthier's have fixed tons of them.
Ye olde broken Gibson headstock. That's what you get for making the whole neck out of a single piece of wood. Broken headstocks and incredible waste of wood. Bad for the customer, bad for the environment. But, that's how it was done in the 1950's, and as everyone knows that's how they got it right the first time so that is how it should be done for ever and ever. As Gibson learned the hard way with their last models. Any deviation from the original design and guitarists start to whine.
The part that is really ironic to me is that epiphones have 2 piece necks. So Gibson addressed the problem for their cheap guitars but not for the 3-4K ones.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: timbo_93631 on April 04, 2019, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 03, 2019, 06:56:07 PM
I feel terrible for him, I just hung up the phone and went "uggh that happened". I just picked him up and told him it was an accident, no big deal.
Guitars get broken and get fixed. A Gibson headstock popping off is nothing too exciting despite the gore; however, keeping cool and caring more about your boy, that is solid parenting. Great job man!
Yeah, no kidding. I'd be terribly bummed out if that happened to one of my Gibsons. Good for you for putting your son's feelings above the disappointment.
Wow thank you! Being a father is super important to me and how can I get mad, shit happens. As I looked more into this (and as others have noted) it is so common and above my fine woodworking skills. I stripped the guitar down to just the wood, bagged and tagged everything and called a luthier. I am bringing it in today and going to see what he can do. I am also considering swapping this over to p-90s and taking a look at the collectiin of eastman guitars they have in stock.
Although this may be a little expensive, maybe I find the 335 style guitar I have been saving for.
I'll keep you all posted.
Knowing my boy, he probably would have felt worse about it than me! Way to go keeping whats important important! And if anything, when it gets fixed and he gets older, it will be a fun story to tell him (and maybe have him bring back up when he does worse to the car ;) )
Quote from: timbo_93631 on April 04, 2019, 12:15:11 PM
Guitars get broken and get fixed. A Gibson headstock popping off is nothing too exciting despite the gore
Chances are it might come out even stronger then before, as the right glue can be even stronger then the original wood. And some luthiers have become really good at fixing Gibson necks, to the point that you can't even see where it broke. Practice makes perfect. ;D
It could even be a good thing, now you know it already happened. No more having to worry when it will happen.
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 04, 2019, 01:31:42 PM
The part that is really ironic to me is that epiphones have 2 piece necks. So Gibson addressed the problem for their cheap guitars but not for the 3-4K ones.
Could be a question of money? A large piece of quality wood to rout a complete neck out costing more then making a 2 piece neck out of less wood?
I have a 70's era LP and it had this happen twice. This all happened before I got the guitar. The first time it was repaired poorly and I think was the main contributor to the second break. Anybody have a ballpark idea of what this repair generally runs?
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2019, 03:46:42 PM
I have a 70's era LP and it had this happen twice. This all happened before I got the guitar. The first time it was repaired poorly and I think was the main contributor to the second break. Anybody have a ballpark idea of what this repair generally runs?
The qoute i was given was 75 dollars just to get it playable again. If I wanted more cosmetic work it could get into the 150 range. If the break is bad enough where rods are needed for support it could be up to 250.
Quote from: dan.schumaker on April 04, 2019, 02:11:14 PM
Knowing my boy, he probably would have felt worse about it than me! Way to go keeping whats important important! And if anything, when it gets fixed and he gets older, it will be a fun story to tell him (and maybe have him bring back up when he does worse to the car ;) )
There is a long story about this guitar but it was purchased when my son was born and was/is played when he was a little baby. I look forward to telling him the whole thing when he gets older.
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2019, 03:46:42 PM
I have a 70's era LP and it had this happen twice. This all happened before I got the guitar. The first time it was repaired poorly and I think was the main contributor to the second break. Anybody have a ballpark idea of what this repair generally runs?
The qoute i was given was 75 dollars just to get it playable again. If I wanted more cosmetic work it could get into the 150 range. If the break is bad enough where rods are needed for support it could be up to 250.
[/quote]
Damn! That is way cheaper than I would have ever expected. I guess I'm going to have a Les Paul in my arsenal!
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 04, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 04, 2019, 03:46:42 PM
I have a 70's era LP and it had this happen twice. This all happened before I got the guitar. The first time it was repaired poorly and I think was the main contributor to the second break. Anybody have a ballpark idea of what this repair generally runs?
The qoute i was given was 75 dollars just to get it playable again. If I wanted more cosmetic work it could get into the 150 range. If the break is bad enough where rods are needed for support it could be up to 250.
Quote from: dan.schumaker on April 04, 2019, 02:11:14 PM
Knowing my boy, he probably would have felt worse about it than me! Way to go keeping whats important important! And if anything, when it gets fixed and he gets older, it will be a fun story to tell him (and maybe have him bring back up when he does worse to the car ;) )
There is a long story about this guitar but it was purchased when my son was born and was/is played when he was a little baby. I look forward to telling him the whole thing when he gets older.
Pricing sounds about right based on what I've heard. Gluing/clamping isn't too hard for a seasoned vet, but it does take more work to make it invisible.
If it were mine, I'd probably spend more and make it visually unobtrusive, but I can understand why many wouldn't care about that.
Quote from: Muadzin on April 04, 2019, 02:32:17 PM
Quote from: timbo_93631 on April 04, 2019, 12:15:11 PM
Guitars get broken and get fixed. A Gibson headstock popping off is nothing too exciting despite the gore
Chances are it might come out even stronger then before, as the right glue can be even stronger then the original wood. And some luthiers have become really good at fixing Gibson necks, to the point that you can't even see where it broke. Practice makes perfect. ;D
It could even be a good thing, now you know it already happened. No more having to worry when it will happen.
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 04, 2019, 01:31:42 PM
The part that is really ironic to me is that epiphones have 2 piece necks. So Gibson addressed the problem for their cheap guitars but not for the 3-4K ones.
Could be a question of money? A large piece of quality wood to rout a complete neck out costing more then making a 2 piece neck out of less wood?
I think it's a reasonable assumption that they use a scarf joint on Epiphones because they are cheaper to implement more so than because they view it as a fix for a long-standing Gibson problem.
Gibson's greatest challenge is that they have to do things a certain way because many of their customers are traditionalists by nature.
There's nothing inherently bad about a scarf joint, though. They are commonly used in classical guitar building, even on extremely expensive designs (Hausers, for ex).
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 05:23:52 PM
Gibson's greatest challenge is that they have to do things a certain way because many of their customers are traditionalists by nature.
And not just in regards to necks. They've got multiple issues what other companies (PRS for example) have eliminated from their designs that make for superior instruments, but Gibson has to keep doing the same old, same old, because every time they've tried to improve, sales have proven that customers don't want that from them.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on April 04, 2019, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 05:23:52 PM
Gibson's greatest challenge is that they have to do things a certain way because many of their customers are traditionalists by nature.
And not just in regards to necks. They've got multiple issues what other companies (PRS for example) have eliminated from their designs that make for superior instruments, but Gibson has to keep doing the same old, same old, because every time they've tried to improve, sales have proven that customers don't want that from them.
Jacob
Indeed. And a significant portion of their customers don't care for PRS because of those changes.
I have a PRS that I think is fantastic, but I love my Gibson's and appreciate that they are different than PRS. Maybe I'm part of the problem. ;-)
I like a lot of Gibson stuff, but playing the part of the devils advocate here, did Gibson declare bankruptcy recently?
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 07:13:28 PM
I have a PRS that I think is fantastic, but I love my Gibson's and appreciate that they are different than PRS. Maybe I'm part of the problem. ;-)
Same here. I like for PRS to break the rules, but I want Gibson to stay in their damn lane. ;D
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 04, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
I like a lot of Gibson stuff, but playing the part of the devils advocate here, did Gibson declare bankruptcy recently?
Yes, but not due to poor guitar sales. Henry was determined to turn Gibson into a lifestyle brand and bought up a bunch of deadweight companies. Gibson is currently divesting themselves of a lot of those companies and they have brought in a new CEO. Time will tell if it's sucessful. So far, they've actually gone more traditional with their designs, which seems to make people happy for the most part.
If I owned the company, I'd offer Epiphones with an open book headstock and watch the money roll in. Squires have the same Fender headstock and that hasn't destroyed Fender.
Met with the luthier and 75 bucks with a 4 day turn around, not bad at all. I will do the refinish work when it gets back and document it for every one. On a really good note, I played a few of his Eastwood guitars and was blown away. He had a 335 type with a bigsby and p90s that was insane. After playing for a few minutes a Matchless DC-30 came in the door and I got to play around with that for a bit, so loud and so good.
As for Gibson, I believe that a company like them has such a rich history and such iconic instruments should stay the course. Like for the Les Paul, make a classic Les Paul that everyone knows and loves and then offer alternatives to that for people who may want something else, like a thicker neck and what not. I personally have a PRS SC-58 and I love it, out of all of the Les Pauls I have played it is easily the best for me. It has a thicker neck, beautiful resonant body and the best humbuckers I have ever heard.
But like any gear out there it is tomato/potato, I have a vox sc-55 that is amazing and yet a buddy of mine hates it.
all the same, I yelled at my kids on your behalf.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on April 04, 2019, 11:27:54 PM
Met with the luthier and 75 bucks with a 4 day turn around, not bad at all. I will do the refinish work when it gets back and document it for every one. On a really good note, I played a few of his Eastwood guitars and was blown away. He had a 335 type with a bigsby and p90s that was insane. After playing for a few minutes a Matchless DC-30 came in the door and I got to play around with that for a bit, so loud and so good.
As for Gibson, I believe that a company like them has such a rich history and such iconic instruments should stay the course. Like for the Les Paul, make a classic Les Paul that everyone knows and loves and then offer alternatives to that for people who may want something else, like a thicker neck and what not. I personally have a PRS SC-58 and I love it, out of all of the Les Pauls I have played it is easily the best for me. It has a thicker neck, beautiful resonant body and the best humbuckers I have ever heard.
But like any gear out there it is tomato/potato, I have a vox sc-55 that is amazing and yet a buddy of mine hates it.
I have an PRS SC245, which is very similar to your SC58 (different pickups). It's a fantastic instrument. It doesn't really sound much like my R7, though. As you say, like any gear, it's in the ear of the beholder. I love them both, for different reasons.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 04, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
I like a lot of Gibson stuff, but playing the part of the devils advocate here, did Gibson declare bankruptcy recently?
Yes, but not due to poor guitar sales. Henry was determined to turn Gibson into a lifestyle brand and bought up a bunch of deadweight companies. Gibson is currently divesting themselves of a lot of those companies and they have brought in a new CEO. Time will tell if it's sucessful. So far, they've actually gone more traditional with their designs, which seems to make people happy for the most part.
If I owned the company, I'd offer Epiphones with an open book headstock and watch the money roll in. Squires have the same Fender headstock and that hasn't destroyed Fender.
I know, I was mostly kidding when I said it. It the last ceo was bad for the company for sure.
The Epiphone idea would certainly make them a ton of money. I actually like the epi headstock better. I think the headstock dates back to before Gibson owned them.
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 05, 2019, 03:10:40 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on April 04, 2019, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: Matmosphere on April 04, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
I like a lot of Gibson stuff, but playing the part of the devils advocate here, did Gibson declare bankruptcy recently?
Yes, but not due to poor guitar sales. Henry was determined to turn Gibson into a lifestyle brand and bought up a bunch of deadweight companies. Gibson is currently divesting themselves of a lot of those companies and they have brought in a new CEO. Time will tell if it's sucessful. So far, they've actually gone more traditional with their designs, which seems to make people happy for the most part.
If I owned the company, I'd offer Epiphones with an open book headstock and watch the money roll in. Squires have the same Fender headstock and that hasn't destroyed Fender.
I know, I was mostly kidding when I said it. It the last ceo was bad for the company for sure.
The Epiphone idea would certainly make them a ton of money. I actually like the epi headstock better. I think the headstock dates back to before Gibson owned them.
The funny thing is that Gibson was nearly dead and buried when Henry bought them from Norlin. He saved the company, got it healthy, and then ran it into the ground.
The TV series Japanology had an interesting episode on centuries-old businesses in Japan that don't really care about making lots of money, so much as continuing to stay in business. I think that the American corporation model of ever-expanding profits stops this from being considered in America, otherwise it might be a good idea for Gibson. I don't know, this is just a throwaway thought.
It's back! I had it at Luthiers Workshop in Green Bay, WI, it took about 3 days to fix it and I got it back on the 11th of April. I have been abusing it quite regularly and it seems like its stays in tune better. I have always had some tuning issues with the G string and so far so good. Here are some pics of the repair job, which was 75 dollars for anyone wondering.
(https://i.imgur.com/FYi7MPv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8vYdIUz.jpg)
Jesus it cost me 60$ just to get the intonation done on my tele here in Tucson, your guru is a wizard.
Quote from: somnif on April 24, 2019, 08:20:44 PM
Jesus it cost me 60$ just to get the intonation done on my tele here in Tucson, your guru is a wizard.
He is a super cool guy, was one of the first four people to work for Taylor Guitars. Did a great job, cannot recommend him enough.