So, it's here for those of us in TN. "Shelter in Place" or "Papers!"
It's a good thing, IMO. A country-wide order might get this thing under control in a few weeks instead of months. We're trending toward 1k deaths per day in the US.
I agree Brian. It is time for people to step up and make this work. I worry that 100 deaths a day might look like a pretty small number by the time we get through this. It's incredibly sad, and mildly terrifying.
My family has the unfortunate circumstance of being displaced and bouncing from place to place right now. Not that we have it too bad, we're healthy and will be able to manage money wise, but not having a home base during a global pandemic is a little scary at times. Sorry, to tie it back to the original point: we decided last night that we should go to Ohio, where all our family is. Not because we want to see them, we won't be seeing them much if at all for the time being. Because the governor there is not messing around at all. They have had pretty firm lockdown orders in place for longer than a lot of other places and I think he intends to make them a little more firm.
Oh, and maybe I can borrow my brother's soldering iron and order some stuff to build while I'm at home ;)
Stay safe, stay healthy and stay home my friends.
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
My sis lives in McKenzie TN and as of 4/1 had to file for unemployment because her beauty shop was told to close.
:-\
Quote from: jalmonsalmon on April 03, 2020, 12:38:03 AM
McKenzie TN
Small world. I live about 12 miles from there as the crow flies.
Quote from: Axldeziak on April 03, 2020, 12:27:05 AM
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I don't think anyone is giving up liberty to stay indoors for a few weeks to cull a pandemic. Anyone who thinks they are impervious to getting infected because of the Constitution is going to find themselves filled with a lot of regret if things keeping trending as they are. I see it as a
temporary safety measure for our collective health and the health of our country.
However, I will agree that we here in the US have a tendency to make "temporary safety measures" ongoing in the last 20 years. So, I do think we have to be vigilant in making this only as short term as necessary.
If someone voluntarily, without being told to, self isolates, no liberty has been lost. When it gets dictated, as if from the seat of heaven itself, and is enforced at the point of a gun, (which it will be) then it IS a loss of Liberty.
That's the big difference, voluntarily, or enforced.
I don't think this will be any sort of short term anything and is going to lead to far more misery than any cold ever has. I've yet to ever see one right given away ever be returned willingly.
Quote from: Axldeziak on April 03, 2020, 01:14:03 AM
If someone voluntarily, without being told to, self isolates, no liberty has been lost. When it gets dictated, as if from the seat of heaven itself, and is enforced at the point of a gun, (which it will be) then it IS a loss of Liberty.
That's the big difference, voluntarily, or enforced.
I don't think this will be any sort of short term anything and is going to lead to far more misery than any cold ever has. I've yet to ever see one right given away ever be returned willingly.
Ah, you're one of those guys.
Quote from: Axldeziak on April 03, 2020, 01:14:03 AM
If someone voluntarily, without being told to, self isolates, no liberty has been lost. When it gets dictated, as if from the seat of heaven itself, and is enforced at the point of a gun, (which it will be) then it IS a loss of Liberty.
That's the big difference, voluntarily, or enforced.
I don't think this will be any sort of short term anything and is going to lead to far more misery than any cold ever has. I've yet to ever see one right given away ever be returned willingly.
We're not there right now man. Nobody is forcing people to stay home at gunpoint and I think the powers that be know that wouldn't fly.
But this ain't just a cold. Have some respect, a lot of people are dying. People are losing their parents, their brothers and sisters, their friends and their children.
The key here is that you and I staying home is what will help keep people safe right now. I respect others rights, but helping keep each other safe should be an honor not a sacrifice. Don't do it because of an order. Do it for you neighbors, your parents, your friends.
Besides the reason we are seeing these orders now are that people don't have the common sense to do it on their own without needing to be told.
Quote from: Axldeziak on April 03, 2020, 01:14:03 AM
If someone voluntarily, without being told to, self isolates, no liberty has been lost. When it gets dictated, as if from the seat of heaven itself, and is enforced at the point of a gun, (which it will be) then it IS a loss of Liberty.
That's the big difference, voluntarily, or enforced.
I don't think this will be any sort of short term anything and is going to lead to far more misery than any cold ever has. I've yet to ever see one right given away ever be returned willingly.
I don't know how to put this other than saying that this might be a naive interpretation of personal liberty. All forms of government, be it federal state or local, have the ability to curtail individual freedom, esp. in the face of a widespread crisis. This is backed up not only by the Constitution itself, but amendments, court interpretations and even individual case law. Most of the time, but not all, this turns out to be for the greater good of communities and society at large. Yes, there is a good reason to remain skeptical whenever there is a blanket order like the ones we are seeing now. But, sometimes we have to sacrifice a bit for for that greater good.
Consider this: The "R" value of the coronavirus is between 2 and 3. That means exponential growth, as we all know. Without somewhat extreme measure we could be looking at as many as a MILLION infections by the end of April. And as many as 100k deaths. Continuing with that scenario, in 3 to 6 months, someone you know or love will DIE from COVID-19. It's not just about you and your freedom. It's about the people you love and come into contact with. You might be willing to take that risk yourself but how about taking it for others on your behalf?
I'm sorry if this is harsh. But, I believe there is a time to argue about liberty in the abstract and then there's now.
I could go point by point through all this but I'm not going to right a book.
I'm not going to be shamed into compliance by emotional appeals to the greater good or by force.
I do things because I want to. Not because I am told to.
Quote from: Axldeziak on April 03, 2020, 02:13:56 AM
I could go point by point through all this but I'm not going to right a book.
I'm not going to be shamed into compliance by emotional appeals to the greater good or by force.
I do things because I want to. Not because I am told to.
I'm trying to engage your reasoning, not shame you. I listed some objective facts why you should comply with "stay at home" orders. Yes, there is an emotional component because realizing your actions have an effect on others is an important part of empathy. It is a valid emotion to recognize when making decisions for ourselves.
I respect that you have a different opinion here and I personally try not to get involved in winning brownie points through internet arguments. But, sometimes we need to do what we are told even if we don't like it. That doesn't stop after we leave home and our parent's authority. It goes on your whole life. Yes, you can be a warrior and say "not me!". But, at least in this time and this circumstance, no one is going to look at you as a freedom fighter. They're just going to see a person engaging in risky and foolish behavior. And, frankly, it concerns me that it could have a very bad outcome for you. If you think that's unnecessary on my part, I will drop it.
I think one of the keys here is that risky and foolish behavior can be dangerous to others as well. If you want to go climb a mountain without ropes and accept that risk then I'd respect your position, but ignoring these guidelines seems much more akin to getting behind the wheel of your car right after you finished a twelve pack. You're doing something that could hurt others, not just yourself.
I think we're in the cold wasteland between the point of slaughter, and the point of, thank god, the docs have a vaccine and medication!
Because make no mistake, the finest minds we have (including somnif and cdog's wife and many others) are all putting in far beyond driven overtime to find these things.
Quote from: madbean on April 02, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
It's a good thing, IMO. A country-wide order might get this thing under control in a few weeks instead of months. We're trending toward 1k deaths per day in the US.
I've been screaming this for weeks. I even wrote our Mayor an email about it. It could have been stopped here a month ago.
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