Is it kosher to discuss recent events of Mike Fuller and Fulltone and it's cancellation from Guitar Center?
But but... He is selling killer wah pots now!
I would never buy any of his pedals though and I think he really stuck is foot up his ass into his mouth now :-\
Well known asshole acts like a rich tone-deaf well known asshole.
The world adds a slight correction.
What's to talk about? ;)
Quote from: Scruffie on June 07, 2020, 09:22:16 AM
Well known asshole acts like a rich tone-deaf well known asshole.
The world adds a slight correction.
What's to talk about? ;)
Hahaha!!
Strange. I missed all this. Sounds like the lad might have had a belly full of beer and decided to play with the phone. It's dumb shit like this that is the reason I'm not on any social media. Or beer lately :-)
I think more is being made of this than it deserves. The aptly initialed MF has always been at best tactless, at worst an a-hole of the first order. The rant that he is being attacked for fits neatly into this long-time pattern, and, as noted, was probably helped along by a fair bit of lubrication, but it is no worse. It really shouldn't be twisted into signs of racism or some other uber-sin. He is pissed off about looters and vandals destroying small businesses, and about political leaders, in his view, failing to do anything about it, that's all. He certainly did not say anything untoward or unsupportive about George Floyd or victims of police violence generally or people of color; he also did not express anything but support for those demonstrating for justice. Even if his jabs at politicians were put in misogynistic terms, that was probably just MF being MF. Honestly, I really think this is much ado about not much.
Quote from: gordo on June 07, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
Strange. I missed all this. Sounds like the lad might have had a belly full of beer and decided to play with the phone. It's dumb shit like this that is the reason I'm not on any social media. Or beer lately :-)
Ditto!
Some seem to be going the extra mile.
[youtube width=640 height=480]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgowthBCZLg[/youtube]
There is someone offering to rehouse your OCD in a black painted hammond.
Anyways I always got the vibe he was kinda an asshole, as some youtube guitar tech personalities are as well (we know who they are, no need for more drama) so this was no surprise to me. I've heard people criticise his Harley's and Porsches.. I do think though in today's world if you are trying to reach a broad audience you need to keep your silence unless you really want to take sides and deal with the fallout. It's such a divided country. Even at work with customers I have to be super careful, even with the most basic of sentences.. even weather comments get an angry reply.
I mean ... if you're going to mix it up with your customers, you get what you deserve. What it is about is pretty much immaterial to that.
Quote from: movinginslomo on June 07, 2020, 04:36:52 PM
.. even weather comments get an angry reply.
I know stuff like this would really set me off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0-pHnykC9s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0-pHnykC9s)
Ultimately, much ado about nothing. Everything is a flashpoint these days. I guess my normal troll-under-the-stairs approach isn't so bad after all.
He could have easily made his point without unprofessional and caustic rhetoric, IMO. He did apologize but I guess his outburst cost him many many thousands of dollars from GC now. I like the Fulltone brand but this was probably a long time coming due to his reputation as a hothead.
Wow, he said some pretty terrible shit with about as much tact as a three month old who is overtired. I hate to say it, but unlike some, he's getting what he deserves.
Quote from: Ben N on June 07, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
I think more is being made of this than it deserves. The aptly initialed MF has always been at best tactless, at worst an a-hole of the first order. The rant that he is being attacked for fits neatly into this long-time pattern, and, as noted, was probably helped along by a fair bit of lubrication, but it is no worse. It really shouldn't be twisted into signs of racism or some other uber-sin. He is pissed off about looters and vandals destroying small businesses, and about political leaders, in his view, failing to do anything about it, that's all. He certainly did not say anything untoward or unsupportive about George Floyd or victims of police violence generally or people of color; he also did not express anything but support for those demonstrating for justice. Even if his jabs at politicians were put in misogynistic terms, that was probably just MF being MF. Honestly, I really think this is much ado about not much.
I really, really, really, REALLY don't like Mike, and societally speaking, I'm 100% in support of the protests and the causes they represent - but this was my same thought as well when I read his original post and his later apology. I love to see arrogance taking a faceplant as much as anyone, but he was misunderstood, although I suppose it's mostly his own fault.
He clarified what he originally meant, and while it was said with tactless language, he was really just saying that a lot of terrible people were getting away with looting while the good people were protesting. He wasn't conflating the two, but rather saying that the looting detracted from the cause. Which I think most of the protestors and their supporters would agree with - especially the ones doing everything they can to keep it peaceful.
I think that the emails that he sent in response to customers asking for him to tone down his initial statement are a big part of the issue here. The public-facing statement was a catalyst and part of the problem to be sure, though.
Quote from: benny_profane on June 08, 2020, 02:37:52 AM
I think that the emails that he sent in response to customers asking for him to tone down his initial statement are a big part of the issue here. The public-facing statement was a catalyst and part of the problem to be sure, though.
Yeah, reading up on it more the thing I saw was one of the emails. I mean, telling people to sell their Fulltone pedals because they don't deserve them, and that they'll break into your house and take their pedals from people. The original post was bad, but the email I saw was ridiculous. If the company was big enough to have a board of investors, then the dude would be gone Papa John's style.
Yum! Pizza sounds good right now! LOL!
I guess the moral of the story is that if you're too OCD, it can be a Catalyst to a situation that is Mas Malo.
Quote from: benny_profane on June 08, 2020, 02:37:52 AM
I think that the emails that he sent in response to customers asking for him to tone down his initial statement are a big part of the issue here. The public-facing statement was a catalyst and part of the problem to be sure, though.
Oh man, that was was insane. He was still consistent, in my estimation - accusing the guy who pushed back on him of being pro-looting, again not disparaging the cause of the protests themselves - but it may have all blown over without that email.
The root issue is that he runs his mouth off without thinking, and has been doing so for literally decades. Even if what he was saying in this instance was somewhat misinterpreted, it was the way he said it that really made it blow up and there's no going back. I hope it continues to cost him dearly.
Quote from: aion on June 08, 2020, 03:01:29 PM
Quote from: benny_profane on June 08, 2020, 02:37:52 AM
I think that the emails that he sent in response to customers asking for him to tone down his initial statement are a big part of the issue here. The public-facing statement was a catalyst and part of the problem to be sure, though.
Oh man, that was was insane. He was still consistent, in my estimation - accusing the guy who pushed back on him of being pro-looting, again not disparaging the cause of the protests themselves - but it may have all blown over without that email.
The root issue is that he runs his mouth off without thinking, and has been doing so for literally decades. Even if what he was saying in this instance was somewhat misinterpreted, it was the way he said it that really made it blow up and there's no going back. I hope it continues to cost him dearly.
I imagine it will. With the pressure for companies to acknowledge their role in social issues and the connection between economics and power structures (or, at least give the appearance of that acknowledgement), companies will continue to distance themselves from anything deemed publicly toxic.
The cynical interpretation is that we've seen this recently with many socio-political issues, and the new enlightened 'corporate positionings' that arise are really just low-stakes PR moves to get ahead of any potential backlash. "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows": public sentiment is unable to be ignored here, and digging heels into a losing position is just bad business.
I've always thought that political positions, for most companies, are stupid ideas.
So you sell little boxes that take guitar cables and make it sound rock and roll. How is that connected, concretely, to generational social ills in your country? Same question for the actual guitars, and all the other paraphernalia surrounding this hobby.
There's a quote from Michael Jordan - "Republicans buy sneakers, too." And, if you portray the "others" as demons, I can't help but see that as supremely unhelpful in any way (other than to put their backs up.)
Quote from: alanp on June 08, 2020, 04:40:36 PM
I've always thought that political positions, for most companies, are stupid ideas.
So you sell little boxes that take guitar cables and make it sound rock and roll. How is that connected, concretely, to generational social ills in your country? Same question for the actual guitars, and all the other paraphernalia surrounding this hobby.
There's a quote from Michael Jordan - "Republicans buy sneakers, too." And, if you portray the "others" as demons, I can't help but see that as supremely unhelpful in any way (other than to put their backs up.)
The disaggregation of economics and politics is not an easy thing. Power structures depend on money. In the United States, individual companies/industries lobby and make campaign/PAC contributions that influence politics. Sure, consumers are consumers, and many buy things irrespective of the behavior or positions of companies—but there really is no firewall between business/economics and politics.
The creation of the 'other' is basic political maneuvering in order to emotionalize complex issues. None of this is a binary, nor is it as simple as 'x is good, y is bad.' But, that distillation is used to sell narratives (and is the basis for populist movements).
In a market system, you vote with your money. Purchases give profit to companies and are a tacit endorsement of their practices. Want to support your country's industrial output and workers, buy products that are made in your country.
So yeah, corporate political positionings (especially those crafted by PR reps) are dumb ideas. However, economics is an integral part of the political landscape and companies/corporations inherently have a political role. There's where the issue lies.
If, for example, an individual company says something and exhibits a pattern of behavior deemed negative, another company distributing their products may want to distance themselves from them to avoid association. Since continuing stocking/selling is a statement of implicit endorsement of those statements and behavior. They benefit by choosing to proactively make a move that aligns with the 'way the wind blows' and still sell other products that fill any void left.
Quote from: alanp on June 08, 2020, 04:40:36 PM
I've always thought that political positions, for most companies, are stupid ideas.
So you sell little boxes that take guitar cables and make it sound rock and roll. How is that connected, concretely, to generational social ills in your country? Same question for the actual guitars, and all the other paraphernalia surrounding this hobby.
There's a quote from Michael Jordan - "Republicans buy sneakers, too." And, if you portray the "others" as demons, I can't help but see that as supremely unhelpful in any way (other than to put their backs up.)
Here in the states, businesses like Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby seem to integrate their ideological stance into their business identity and seems to really thrive in the areas where those stances are promenant (like mine). I do my best not to give them my money but when they are the only game in town it can be difficult to put you money where your mouth is.
I feel the same way about Disney, I don't really want to support them by giving them my money but alas I have 3 kids and my wife signed us up for Disney+
Quote from: alanp on June 08, 2020, 04:40:36 PM
I've always thought that political positions, for most companies, are stupid ideas.
So you sell little boxes that take guitar cables and make it sound rock and roll. How is that connected, concretely, to generational social ills in your country? Same question for the actual guitars, and all the other paraphernalia surrounding this hobby.
There's a quote from Michael Jordan - "Republicans buy sneakers, too." And, if you portray the "others" as demons, I can't help but see that as supremely unhelpful in any way (other than to put their backs up.)
I think this is a human rights issue more than a political issue, and more and more people are starting to see it that way.