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Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: sonnyboy27 on January 04, 2021, 03:21:53 PM

Title: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: sonnyboy27 on January 04, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
A buddy of mine brought me a vintage phase 90 (6 single opamp version). I passes signal just fine but the phase signal gives me nothing. I've checked all of the ICs and they each are getting powered properly (9V on pin 7 and 0V on pin 4). I pulled out the audio probe and I noticed that the signal gets attenuated after the first capacitor and then comes out of the input buffer incredibly weak. From their I think the simple filtering in the rest of the audio path kills the signal off. Any phaser folks had experience with this?
I'm getting the appropriate 5.1V off of the Vref so I don't think that's an issue. I've been using the Electrosmash phase 90 analysis page to help me sort through the signal path.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: sonnyboy27 on January 08, 2021, 02:37:09 AM
Personal Update: Looks like the caps in the signal path may have drifted so far out of spec that they're filtering out the signal entirely.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 08, 2021, 01:55:41 AM
I have a diy phaser 90 build that only sounds in the off position?
I used the Audio probe & I get a phased signal from the left side of the board, nothing passes by the green line.. R3, 4, 5, 6, & Q1, 2, 3, &4.
See the pic attached.
Any ideas? 
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 08, 2021, 02:48:03 AM
Got pics of your build (both sides) along with voltages?


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 08, 2021, 03:31:03 PM
As far as voltages, I am new to DIY builds so  I need a description of how to do voltages. EX: Do I ground to box & with unit in the on position, touch each component on the board to get the DC voltage reading? Thank you for your assistance. 
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 08, 2021, 04:56:43 PM
Did it work before and then not work? Did you try turning the trimmer in mm increments? Did you check to make sure all of the parts are correct and have you reflowed all of the solder joints?  Sorry for all of the questions, it's a process starting with the above.

Ground the DMM probe to the main ground, the red probe will check each leg of the ICs and transistors.


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 08, 2021, 05:05:37 PM
Some of those solder points look highly suspect. You may want to clean that off with some alcohol and a brush and re-flow. In your pic, the lower right corner.... Pin 6 of that Op Amp looks bad  :-\
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 08, 2021, 06:33:20 PM
Thanks, Jimilee & Govmnt_Lacky.
I will clean the rear of the board, re-tin the joints & then do the readings, Greatly appreciated! I'll get back to you later.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 09, 2021, 03:23:35 AM
An update, Jimilee, after I first finished the build it did work, but only in the on position, I got a new push-button from the supplier of the kit for free because he said I was probably too heavy with the heat & melted it. After installing the new switch was when I got the results I originally posted above.  I have cleaned & resoldered all the joints, but still have the same results as above. I am now doing the voltage readings & will post them soon.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 09, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Looks like there a missed solder joint on the bottom right.


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 02:54:49 PM
The open solder joint is for the jumper to use as a script model. Attached are the voltage readings and a copy of the board labels.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 10, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/3157cd34667e45ec8fca2bd9311d6f53.jpg)



Are both of these spots not supposed to be soldered?


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 04:00:57 PM
I see these 2 spots not soldered, I will ask the site  I bought it from & get back to you.
(It's actually these 2 spots, the lower left one in your pic is soldered.)
Thanks.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 10, 2021, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 04:00:57 PM
I see these 2 spots not soldered, I will ask the site  I bought it from & get back to you.
Thanks.

Both of those solder points are legs from IC chips. They need to be soldered properly. Those were the points I mentioned in my previous post.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 04:45:20 PM
All IC chip solder joints have been soldered. There are 2 large unsoldered holes in the board I am asking the seller about.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 10, 2021, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 04:45:20 PM
All IC chip solder joints have been soldered. There are 2 large unsoldered holes in the board I am asking the seller about.

Those 2 large holes are for mounting the PCB in the enclosure by plastic standoffs.

I am guessing that you went through and re-flowed all solder points again since taking the above pictures. If not... you really need to.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: gordo on February 10, 2021, 07:00:22 PM
In the meantime...cool to have an original board or a copy of it.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 08:10:02 PM
So the seller said the 2 holes in the board are to be left open. Nothing gets soldered to them.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 10, 2021, 09:24:07 PM
From the Seller:
You do have the ICs oriented correctly?  ICs 2 3 4 and 5 are facing opposite direction from IC 1 and 6.  Let me know. 
I think you may be off in following the audio path.  The audio splits after IC1 and goes with a clean sound to R27 and the other split goes to C2 and R7 to go thru the 4 stage phasing process.( thru ICs 2, 3 4 and 5),  you should hear the phasing warble getting more intense on Pins 2 and output pin 6 of those ICs.  Then the clean and warbled sounds are mixed in the pnp transistor stage just before output.

You won't hear any sound anywhere on the FET Pins as they are there for the sole purpose to fluctuate the current going into the phasing ICs at whatever rate the LFO is set to be (LFO being the circuitry around IC6 and controlled by pot R21).    SO...if you are not getting any sound on the left side, not even to pin 2 of IC2, you would need to find out what's happening to the sound between pin 6 of IC 1 and pin 2 of IC2
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 11, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
So, great news! I guess resoldering all the joints fixed it! Praise to you all for your comments. My first DIY has become a success thanks to madebeenpedals Guru's.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 11, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Woohoo!! Congratulations. That fixes about 98% of your issues.


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 11, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
So what's the other 2% of my issues??
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 11, 2021, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: mgalicki on February 11, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
So what's the other 2% of my issues??

He meant to say "Re-soldering your joints will fix your issue 98% of the time."

But... it's more like 50%  ;)
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 11, 2021, 06:54:57 PM
Gotcha, so now that it's workin I'm thinkin about adding the script mod with a mini push button. Where would I get that?
Thanks
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 11, 2021, 10:10:30 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on February 11, 2021, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: mgalicki on February 11, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
So what's the other 2% of my issues??

He meant to say "Re-soldering your joints will fix your issue 98% of the time."

But... it's more like 50%  ;)
I guess it's subjective. Either way, it's a good starting point for troubleshooting.


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Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 12, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: jimilee on February 11, 2021, 10:10:30 PM
I guess it's subjective. Either way, it's a good starting point for troubleshooting.
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Agreed! As your skills with the iron progress from Padawan to Jedi, your chances of solder joints being the issue greatly decrease. Then, it becomes dumb mistakes like connecting Input and Output wires to the wrong sides of jacks.... take it from me  ;D
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 13, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
So could  I put a potentiometer instead of an on/off switch on R28?
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: mgalicki on February 13, 2021, 08:29:55 PM
Well I did it, the effect does soften when dialed down about 25%. But I can only dial it back about 25% before the volume starts to drop along with the effect. cool stuff.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting vintage Phase 90
Post by: jimilee on February 13, 2021, 10:49:17 PM
Welcome to diy man. I love me some phasery goodness.


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