Title: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 07:10:33 PM
Randomly got served this as a suggestion on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294054589339?ViewItem=&item=294054589339
Anyone know what fuckery this dude is trying to schill here?
A quad and a dual opamp for £15??
Answers on a postcard. Yes I have written the same to the seller, almost verbatim...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294054589339?ViewItem=&item=294054589339
Anyone know what fuckery this dude is trying to schill here?
A quad and a dual opamp for £15??
Answers on a postcard. Yes I have written the same to the seller, almost verbatim...
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: Betty Wont on March 09, 2021, 07:28:57 PM
Post by: Betty Wont on March 09, 2021, 07:28:57 PM
He dared to insult my "pussy cat" pedal!!!!
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 07:40:45 PM
Post by: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 07:40:45 PM
Maybe they are rail-to-rail. I mean, that's not a price justification, but it might explain the grand claims in the copy.
I think a lot of people might think 15 pounds is cheaper/faster than learning enough to figure out which ICs to buy to get the same outcome.
I think a lot of people might think 15 pounds is cheaper/faster than learning enough to figure out which ICs to buy to get the same outcome.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:04:56 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:04:56 PM
he was NOT happy with me calling him out
not sure why just dont like him associating me with this
its not in the spirit of DIY
not sure why just dont like him associating me with this
its not in the spirit of DIY
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Quote from: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 07:40:45 PMWhat real difference would rail to rail op amps make here though?
Maybe they are rail-to-rail. I mean, that's not a price justification, but it might explain the grand claims in the copy.
I think a lot of people might think 15 pounds is cheaper/faster than learning enough to figure out which ICs to buy to get the same outcome.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 10:11:41 PM
Post by: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
What real difference would rail to rail op amps make here though?
Uhhhh...it makes the whooshes go *further* ?? ;D
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: thesmokingman on March 09, 2021, 10:58:20 PM
Post by: thesmokingman on March 09, 2021, 10:58:20 PM
I clearly overpaid for matched germanium transistors today so this was some much needed salve for the soul
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: culturejam on March 09, 2021, 10:11:41 PMQuote from: LaceSensor on March 09, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
What real difference would rail to rail op amps make here though?
Uhhhh...it makes the whooshes go *further* ?? ;D
fair wnough
Any recommendations for rail to rail replacements for TL072 and TL074?
I wouldnt mind checing this out, recommending in my build guide, and ruining this scalpers market :)
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: EBK on March 10, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
Post by: EBK on March 10, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
You could almost read the writing on the chips in the ebay posting. A new one went up that more successfully blurs it now.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: alanp on March 10, 2021, 03:11:53 PM
Post by: alanp on March 10, 2021, 03:11:53 PM
It's the same story as with magic capacitors in amplifiers. If you want to change the tone or performance, change the actual values of components in the damn circuit. The only reason an amp's 'sound' will change with cap swaps is due to tolerances and the fact that, as caps age, their values change even more.
With this, however, I don't think a single thing will change, other than the seller being that much richer, and the buyer being that much poorer (and, hopefully, a bit wiser in future.)
With this, however, I don't think a single thing will change, other than the seller being that much richer, and the buyer being that much poorer (and, hopefully, a bit wiser in future.)
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: culturejam on March 10, 2021, 08:56:54 PM
Post by: culturejam on March 10, 2021, 08:56:54 PM
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Any recommendations for rail to rail replacements for TL072 and TL074?
I wouldnt mind checing this out, recommending in my build guide, and ruining this scalpers market :)
I'm not at all convinced it's going to make a dramatic difference. I was sort of being silly, although in theory a rail-to-rail op amp would be able to swing higher and lower (for an LFO or a filter or whatever).
The only ones I've used (that I can recall) are TLC2272 and TLC2274. And probably the 62/64 variants that are supposed to be a little bit lower noise.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:22:05 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:22:05 PM
Quote from: EBK on March 10, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
You could almost read the writing on the chips in the ebay posting. A new one went up that more successfully blurs it now.
nah you could only read the top line which is normally the manufacturing code or whatever
the actual product ID was crudely obscured.
im calling BS on this guy.
does anyone else think I should ask him to not associate my PCB with it?
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:23:30 PM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:23:30 PM
this was the original image used
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: Bio77 on March 10, 2021, 11:27:14 PM
Post by: Bio77 on March 10, 2021, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:22:05 PMI found an online source selling bootleg copies of my album once. I was pissed and asked them to stop, but later on I was kind of honored ;D. Maybe it ends up being free marketing for you.
does anyone else think I should ask him to not associate my PCB with it?
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: EBK on March 10, 2021, 11:55:30 PM
Post by: EBK on March 10, 2021, 11:55:30 PM
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:22:05 PMI agree.
im calling BS on this guy.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: culturejam on March 11, 2021, 01:58:54 AM
Post by: culturejam on March 11, 2021, 01:58:54 AM
Quote from: Bio77 on March 10, 2021, 11:27:14 PMQuote from: LaceSensor on March 10, 2021, 10:22:05 PM
does anyone else think I should ask him to not associate my PCB with it?
Maybe it ends up being free marketing for you.
I tend to agree with this. The guy isn't disparaging the Gigahearts brand in any way, and is bringing awareness. Might be a net good thing.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: PapaKev on March 11, 2021, 05:36:13 AM
Post by: PapaKev on March 11, 2021, 05:36:13 AM
And poof...it's gone. lol, what a dumbass
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 11, 2021, 10:49:05 AM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 11, 2021, 10:49:05 AM
Hey so I asked him what about before and after mods video / sound file etc
He replied thus:
I really don't have a good way of taking videos of a scope. A combination of lack of a suitable tripod, beat frequencies between the camera and the scope and an insufficiency in the number of hands made for a poor show. Aside from that I'm hideously ugly...
Anyway in the attached, the purple is the reference signal and the yellow is the output. The width of the cursors show the range of phase available. You can see it's more than doubled.
He replied thus:
I really don't have a good way of taking videos of a scope. A combination of lack of a suitable tripod, beat frequencies between the camera and the scope and an insufficiency in the number of hands made for a poor show. Aside from that I'm hideously ugly...
Anyway in the attached, the purple is the reference signal and the yellow is the output. The width of the cursors show the range of phase available. You can see it's more than doubled.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: LaceSensor on March 11, 2021, 10:52:17 AM
Post by: LaceSensor on March 11, 2021, 10:52:17 AM
Do these images actually show something viable and useful, worthy of investigation?
I mean, I am more than happy to buy various chips and publish for free the answers but I would like some confirmation this isnt anything but a bit of snake oil.
FWIW IC1 and IC2 in my doppelganger PCB relate to the CV/LFO side, rather than the phase shift stages.
also, Im just a schill hack so I dont know what changing those op amps for other types would really do, but being a lovetone fan I am now very curious.
I take on board the comments about free advertising and the pseudo compliment :)
I mean, I am more than happy to buy various chips and publish for free the answers but I would like some confirmation this isnt anything but a bit of snake oil.
FWIW IC1 and IC2 in my doppelganger PCB relate to the CV/LFO side, rather than the phase shift stages.
also, Im just a schill hack so I dont know what changing those op amps for other types would really do, but being a lovetone fan I am now very curious.
I take on board the comments about free advertising and the pseudo compliment :)
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: jimilee on March 11, 2021, 01:20:09 PM
Post by: jimilee on March 11, 2021, 01:20:09 PM
I'm curious myself. Do we have any idea what the chips could be?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: jjjimi84 on March 11, 2021, 02:58:22 PM
Post by: jjjimi84 on March 11, 2021, 02:58:22 PM
I wonder if this is the same person selling 300 clones of the vfe merman on a pedalpcb.com board on reverb. I showed that post to my wife and she was mad because I sell my hand painted pedals for 75 bucks and this was a bare enclosure.
I always feel that there is a cost versus worth ratio in building pedals. For example, you buy these fancy chips, but when it comes to playing in a band or recording is it going to translate to the end user? I am all about buying cool transistors and diodes and what not but I also have a limit to what I am willing to do for that TONE. Now if we are talking street corner work for the TONE then count me in, I have nice knee pads.
I always feel that there is a cost versus worth ratio in building pedals. For example, you buy these fancy chips, but when it comes to playing in a band or recording is it going to translate to the end user? I am all about buying cool transistors and diodes and what not but I also have a limit to what I am willing to do for that TONE. Now if we are talking street corner work for the TONE then count me in, I have nice knee pads.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: EBK on March 11, 2021, 03:34:27 PM
Post by: EBK on March 11, 2021, 03:34:27 PM
No matter how curious any of you get, please resist buying these magic chips.
Although, it was pointed out in a show my kids watched that the magic bean salesman in Jack and the Beanstalk is one of the most honest and caring characters in all fairy tales (the beans were, in fact, magic like he said, and the scrawny cow trade was very much tilted in Jack's favor).
Although, it was pointed out in a show my kids watched that the magic bean salesman in Jack and the Beanstalk is one of the most honest and caring characters in all fairy tales (the beans were, in fact, magic like he said, and the scrawny cow trade was very much tilted in Jack's favor).
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: Betty Wont on March 11, 2021, 03:35:30 PM
Post by: Betty Wont on March 11, 2021, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on March 11, 2021, 02:58:22 PMWhoo BOY! I had to check out that listing. What a crock of up-his-own-ass crap!. I can't believe the audacity of salesmanship going on there. That build quality is similar to Alchemy Audio, which is poor and overpriced at half that $. Noisy old random resistors, And the diode thing.... I just can't.
I wonder if this is the same person selling 300 clones of the vfe merman on a pedalpcb.com board on reverb. I showed that post to my wife and she was mad because I sell my hand painted pedals for 75 bucks and this was a bare enclosure.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: benny_profane on March 11, 2021, 06:20:31 PM
Post by: benny_profane on March 11, 2021, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: Torgoslayer on March 11, 2021, 03:35:30 PMQuote from: jjjimi84 on March 11, 2021, 02:58:22 PMWhoo BOY! I had to check out that listing. What a crock of up-his-own-ass crap!. I can't believe the audacity of salesmanship going on there. That build quality is similar to Alchemy Audio, which is poor and overpriced at half that $. Noisy old random resistors, And the diode thing.... I just can't.
I wonder if this is the same person selling 300 clones of the vfe merman on a pedalpcb.com board on reverb. I showed that post to my wife and she was mad because I sell my hand painted pedals for 75 bucks and this was a bare enclosure.
This guy sold a production VFE Merman for $215. Here was the copy for that one:
"Up for sale is the VFE Merman. These are really well designed overdrive pedals based on the Klon but with tons of amazing features. This particular pedal has some normal wear but is 100% perfectly functional and sounds amazing ( not as amazing as my hand made version please see my other listings)"
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: matmosphere on March 11, 2021, 06:41:34 PM
Post by: matmosphere on March 11, 2021, 06:41:34 PM
I would be surprised if there were a tangible improvement from just swapping a few IC's. Coggins seems like a really bright guy, I would think he would have figured it out during the design phase.
Reading through this I'm actually a little disappointed to hear PedalPCB sells VFE boards :-\ let alone someone selling them online for such absurd prices.
Reading through this I'm actually a little disappointed to hear PedalPCB sells VFE boards :-\ let alone someone selling them online for such absurd prices.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:05:35 AM
Post by: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:05:35 AM
HA!
I just checked out Mister PPCB-VFE on Reverb-
I'm a little surprised he didn't goop the board.
I just checked out Mister PPCB-VFE on Reverb-
I'm a little surprised he didn't goop the board.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 12:17:49 AM
Post by: matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 12:17:49 AM
Quote from: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:05:35 AM
HA!
I just checked out Mister PPCB-VFE on Reverb-
I'm a little surprised he didn't goop the board.
Then he couldn't talk about all the mojo parts in it.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:40:18 AM
Post by: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:40:18 AM
Quote from: Matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 12:17:49 AM
Then he couldn't talk about all the mojo parts in it.
He could take "before" pictures of his mojo parts.. then swap that board out with a goopy metal-film & 1N4148 build.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: benny_profane on March 12, 2021, 12:50:01 AM
Post by: benny_profane on March 12, 2021, 12:50:01 AM
Quote from: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:05:35 AM
HA!
I just checked out Mister PPCB-VFE on Reverb-
I'm a little surprised he didn't goop the board.
If he gooped the board, how would he ever solder the LED?
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: alanp on March 12, 2021, 04:48:48 AM
Post by: alanp on March 12, 2021, 04:48:48 AM
Quote from: LaceSensor on March 11, 2021, 10:49:05 AM
Anyway in the attached, the purple is the reference signal and the yellow is the output. The width of the cursors show the range of phase available. You can see it's more than doubled.
In the first and third scope shots, the cursors are set to the peak of the yellow signal, and the next trough after that.
In the second, the one he wants to look bad, the cursor is set to the peak of the yellow signal, and some random arbitrary point after that, but nice and short.
Am I missing something here? How in tarnation does this prove the 'depth' of phase?
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 11:36:03 AM
Post by: matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 11:36:03 AM
Quote from: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:40:18 AMQuote from: Matmosphere on March 12, 2021, 12:17:49 AM
Then he couldn't talk about all the mojo parts in it.
He could take "before" pictures of his mojo parts.. then swap that board out with a goopy metal-film & 1N4148 build.
Yes, and it would sound identical.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: Betty Wont on March 12, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Post by: Betty Wont on March 12, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: dawson on March 12, 2021, 12:05:35 AMRight?! He brags about Burr Brown OP2134 OP AMPs and those "amazing" 1n34a with the high fv and then takes a gutshot without either installed. I wonder where most of his parts were made if not China. I just sent him a message asking if he'd install the magic parts after I purchase or why aren't they pictured.
HA!
I just checked out Mister PPCB-VFE on Reverb-
I'm a little surprised he didn't goop the board.
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: EBK on March 12, 2021, 02:15:26 PM
Post by: EBK on March 12, 2021, 02:15:26 PM
I should start selling pedals on Reverb. I don't know of I have ever told you guys, but ALL of my builds are hand-built using amazing parts and sound unbelievable. ;D ::)
Title: Re: Curious Lovetone "snake oil"
Post by: jimilee on March 12, 2021, 03:39:27 PM
Post by: jimilee on March 12, 2021, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: EBK on March 12, 2021, 02:15:26 PMHand wired too?
I should start selling pedals on Reverb. I don't know of I have ever told you guys, but ALL of my builds are hand-built using amazing parts and sound unbelievable. ;D ::)
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