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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: cajone5 on March 09, 2021, 08:43:15 PM

Title: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: cajone5 on March 09, 2021, 08:43:15 PM
Hoping to adapt both these pedals for bass by adding a clean blend which includes a buffer and doesn't like inverted phase.  I have no idea how to determine if these invert... can anyone here help?
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: madbean on March 09, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
If you can link to the schematics I can tell you  :)
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: cajone5 on March 09, 2021, 10:10:11 PM
This is the NG-2/3 https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/nugget/
And I think this is the Hogweed http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/Giant-Hogweed-by-David-Rolo-just-added-schematic-td25547.html
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: madbean on March 10, 2021, 01:17:15 AM
It looks to me like the input and outputs are out of phase with each other in both cases. But there's a lot going on between so that may not even be much of an issue.
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: cajone5 on March 10, 2021, 02:05:40 AM
So likely a mistake to add this due to the out of phase output?

https://guitarpcb.com/product/buff-n-blend/
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: cajone5 on March 10, 2021, 03:05:41 PM
Also... after thinking more on it... is the phase inversion only really an issue when the two signals are similar (as in mod effects) and less relevant (or entirely irrelevant) when there's heavy distortion involve and the blended signals are significantly different?
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: cajone5 on March 11, 2021, 05:34:57 AM
Anyone? I should know this but does out of phase even matter when considering a clean blend addition to a heavy fuzz or distortion?
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: Bio77 on March 11, 2021, 03:45:59 PM
I would guess, yes.  Even in a distorted signal the fundamental frequency is the clean note from your guitar.
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: madbean on March 11, 2021, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: cajone5 on March 10, 2021, 03:05:41 PM
Also... after thinking more on it... is the phase inversion only really an issue when the two signals are similar (as in mod effects) and less relevant (or entirely irrelevant) when there's heavy distortion involve and the blended signals are significantly different?

Yes, barring any other transformation if the input is split then summed 180 deg. out of phase you will have a problem. I don't think it's going to matter much in these cases because there is so much added harmonic content and b/c any LP/HP filters add phase shift as well. Probably the only way to get the truest answer is to either simulate the whole thing or look at the signal summing with a scope. Or, just try it out an listen to the result.
Title: Re: Do these effects invert phase? Cornish NG-2 & Drolo Giant Hogweed
Post by: madbean on March 11, 2021, 05:09:47 PM
Also, you can very easily set up a JFET or any old NPN as both buffer and low-gain amplifier so you have both options to choose from (in case one works better than the other).