Well I think I will be doing more tweaking this weekend but here is a clip of it with a few different effects.
The Sunking uses a 10n bass cap and has a BAT41 and BAT46 (I blew up my LM313's :'() and has the 1M gain resistor. The fuzz is my purple CV7112 Fuzz Face, the wah effect definitely gets a little less when playing with fuzz, time to tweak some more :D
http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/waffle-wah (http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/waffle-wah)
it sounds like you're getting a combo of volume and wah happening simultaneously early on... sorta weird.
Jacob
......almost like you have some type of envelope type thing going on.
Quote from: jkokura on January 26, 2012, 03:21:21 AM
it sounds like you're getting a combo of volume and wah happening simultaneously early on... sorta weird.
Jacob
yeah seemed like there was a big volume drop at one end of the sweep
Weird volume fluctuations there.
Apparently you can make any wah into a volume pedal by lifting the ground connection of the 4uF capacitor, so that might be a good place to check.
I was tweaking with the values all last night and found something very interesting; my filter section doesn't work like it is supposed to. I took the frequency pot out of the mix (and that second cap) and it sounds absolutely epic now, similar seep range as my Wizard but much much warmer. No more crazy volume drop. I am just going to leave the pot and and use the external control for something else (peak maybe).
I did check the 4.7uf cap as well to make sure that wasn't giving me any problems. According to Keen's article this is responsible for changes in volume throughout the sweep.
What I found was this; the capacitor that is always connected to the feedback loop (3.9n) has a huge impact on the bass frequencies through the majority of the sweep of the Freq control. In other words, there is not a smooth blend between 3.9 and 100. The pot was adding very small amounts of bass to one end of the wah sweep until it shorted to the 100n when then there was a sudden large change in resonant frequency. I tested the other way around (100n always connected) and was getting the same thing except reverse (super bassy all the way up).
Ill post another sound clip tonight or this weekend but the change is huge. I am using a 15n feedback cap but may switch to a 22n.
Quote from: plesur on January 26, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
Apparently you can make any wah into a volume pedal by lifting the ground connection of the 4uF capacitor, so that might be a good place to check.
very interesting...so you could make it a wah/volume pedal by putting that connection on a switch
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 26, 2012, 03:54:39 PM
I was tweaking with the values all last night and found something very interesting; my filter section doesn't work like it is supposed to. I took the frequency pot out of the mix (and that second cap) and it sounds absolutely epic now, similar seep range as my Wizard but much much warmer. No more crazy volume drop.
cool, excited to hear a demo. fwiw, the whipple sounded pretty incredible even in the volume drop demo
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 26, 2012, 03:54:39 PM
I was tweaking with the values all last night and found something very interesting; my filter section doesn't work like it is supposed to. I took the frequency pot out of the mix (and that second cap) and it sounds absolutely epic now, similar seep range as my Wizard but much much warmer. No more crazy volume drop. I am just going to leave the pot and and use the external control for something else (peak maybe).
I did check the 4.7uf cap as well to make sure that wasn't giving me any problems. According to Keen's article this is responsible for changes in volume throughout the sweep.
What I found was this; the capacitor that is always connected to the feedback loop (3.9n) has a huge impact on the bass frequencies through the majority of the sweep of the Freq control. In other words, there is not a smooth blend between 3.9 and 100. The pot was adding very small amounts of bass to one end of the wah sweep until it shorted to the 100n when then there was a sudden large change in resonant frequency. I tested the other way around (100n always connected) and was getting the same thing except reverse (super bassy all the way up).
Ill post another sound clip tonight or this weekend but the change is huge. I am using a 15n feedback cap but may switch to a 22n.
Thanks for giving your feedback. 100n might be overkill, so it may be worth mentioning in the doc that smaller values might be more palatable if one is using the Freq control...I tend to go for extreme settings sometimes :)
One thing I did not mention in the doc was that there is a little amount of "play" in the full turn of the ICAR shaft and the pinion, meaning it's possible to go just a bit high or low when trying to marry the two things together. I did a small readjustment to get the range I liked on mine by lining the teeth up a little differently /
Oh hellz yeah.
http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new (http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new)
This is the sound I was hoping for. Took out the Freq knob and replaced with a 15n fixed cap, returned the input cap back to 100n. This thing sounds amazing :o Much warmer than the Wizard wah, extreme range on the sweep now. You can actually drive the transistors to get a little grit with heavy pick attack (220R emitter resistor) and it sounds epic, little volume boost. Overall probably the best sounding wah I've ever played and I though my Wiz clone was the best. Stoked :D. Added a mini rotary switch to my SB order so now the Freq knob will be a cap selector switch, the blend just didn't work for me.
EDIT: oh yeah forgot to mention. I am using my '51 style telecaster into my twin reverb. The egeodriver uses stock clipping and a BB opamp. The fuzz is my prototype hybrid with a 2SA1015 and an IT308B.
Paul, I'm so glad you are pleased! The wah sounds great.
If it's okay with you, can I add your suggested mods to the doc? I would like to give a small warning that the Freq control might not suit everyone, and let them know what you found.
Yeah of course Brian. I was interested to see if anyone else had the same result or if I was using a strange pot or cap or something. I suppose we'll see soon.
Paul you do great demos... great tones and nice chops 8)
Until now... I didn't need another wah! ::) ;D
Quote from: nzCdog on January 27, 2012, 04:06:32 AM
Paul you do great demos... great tones and nice chops 8)
Until now... I didn't need another wah! ::) ;D
Thanks Corey! I love trying out the new gear.
This wah is so awesome my gastrocnemius is starting to hurt. I am going to invent a new term called "Waffle Leg" ::)
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 27, 2012, 04:18:26 AM
This wah is so awesome my gastrocnemius is starting to hurt.
LOL! I googled that... Take it easy , don't do yourself an injury! :D
Wow, that wah sounds great now. Some of the slow sweeps with the EgoDriver on sound really psychedelic.
Can't wait for my board to arrive now! :)
Sounds so nice!!!
This is EXACTLY the wah sound I have been chasing!! Well done bro... Brian is going to be adding these mods to the build doc? I want that sound....
Quote from: eldanko on January 27, 2012, 04:39:27 PM
This is EXACTLY the wah sound I have been chasing!! Well done bro... Brian is going to be adding these mods to the build doc? I want that sound....
I know right! I can't wait to get home and play it tonight.
I think all the mods I did are currently in the build docs. The only strange thing I did is replace the sweep wiper cap with 330n instead of 220n and use a standard taper Vox pot, supposedly this gives you an ICAR approximation; sounds good to me.
Specifically I just took out the 100n cap on the blend pot and put a 15n in place of the 3n9. I used a Whipple inductor, 2n2925 trannies, the Q1 emitter resistor is 220R and the input resistor is 47K. I will be doing the feedback cap switcher later but it sounds amazing right now!
Oh wow this new demo is awesome. Nice work! Can't wait for mine!
Paul, the second clip is MUCH better now. I like it quite a bit.
Jacob
Thanks Jacob! I love wah, instant Hendrix tones, and now that this one works well with my fuzz pedals even better!
Ohh I'm soo stoked! You really got it sounding truly amazing! I'm coming to you for help when I get around to building mine!
Hell yeah! cruise up whenever you start building and we'll get it all together. I have to head up to apex one of these days to pick up some much needed parts too.
beautiful sound. love the later clip. but actually the first clip was cool too.
i love it when people lower the voicing on inductor wahs, makes them sound very parapedal-like.
Thanks Joe. I've been watching all your wah videos lately. You have some wild sounding ones. They all sound good. Do you own all of those?
Speaking of the parapedal that could be a really cool project I think. The circuit is simple enough. The trouble is getting that dual 10K pot. What if you could program a microcontroller and a dual digital pot to control the parameters? You could hook all kinds of crazy things up to control the pedal: custom lfo, regular old pot, photoresistor, envelope. The programs for SPI pot control are super simple... That would be awesome 8)
jake,thanks so much. yeah, i still own about half of them. every once in a while someone comes by our store and falls in love with one of 'em and takes one home. with players, we love to do side by side comparos, the differences become apparent very quickly.
i have about 6 boomerangs, most are in line for restore/repair.
parapedal.
wilson has the freak wah, which is based on the parapedal. sounds very close to the originals as far as i can tell. in burgerman's demo vid ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uneGh0c5j1s&feature=g-all-u&context=G2f93b59FAAAAAAAAAAA ), i could see he was using a pot that looks identical to the mr.supercrybaby dunlop pot. i wonder if he is getting his pots through someone selling dunlop repair parts? i think those are 100k dualgangs. wilson has been known to sub in higher value pots for lower in the past ( wilson rippah Q based on boomerang but using an icar taper 180k propot in place of the 25K). owned a rippah Q, it sounded great ( after i replaced the scratchy pot) but the build quality and parts were so- so. almost all chinese parts, incl enclosure. i think all chinese pots are crap, they get scratchy in no time (dunlop mccoy reissue, roc pot, propot, etc etc). hotpotz2 are the only pots that really hold up. george blekas of pedalworks agrees.
BTW, all of the late model dunlops with cheap chinese pots are scratchy. they messed up when they got away from the hotpotz2.
thanks for checking out my vids! believe it or not, i have bought and sold a bunch of wahs that i didn't even make videos of! i only make vids of the ones that i think are historic, modded by me, or unique.
my two holy grail wahs are:
-67 maestro boomerang BG1, no one knows how many exist but i think it is way less than 100.
http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/Boomerang3.htm
- teese rmc3 , made in 96, second or third year, but in the vox case, supposedly the last one made in a non-teese encolsure. sounds better and quite different from rmc3s of just 6 years later.
oh, one more thing about the digital micropot idea. i have been studying guys online who have tried it using MDA/midi controllers etc, the problems is still the LAG. too many components involved= lag IMO, and backed up by recent experiments by others.
Hmm yeah that would make sense. That would suck if you had a laggy response on a wah type pedal. I imagine for LFO control though it wouldn't be noticeable. Laggy envelope control might be a little weird too.
The Gfex schematic shows a 10K dual pot. That is one cool sounding pedal, super sweep range and at the lower sweep settings it sounds like the seamoon funk machine I used to own. Maybe ill start working on a prototype sort of thing with it.
You should have a video comparison channel with all those wahs. Ill have to get a better pot when this one starts going. Looks super old as it is.
yeah! would love to see your take on seamooon/ para type thing.
it's too late to re-organize all those vids into thair own channel, nice idea, but i don't have time for that. if you look at them in chronological order they makes sense tho. at least all 9 of the teese rmcs tettings vids are in order - ha
your pot? if it ins't scratchy, enjoy it til it fails. have fun. sounded good in the vids.
Wow.
I never really been much for wha but your demo changed my mind. Friggin awesome.
Must get :o
Quote from: joegagan on January 30, 2012, 05:17:33 PM
jake,thanks so much. yeah, i still own about half of them. every once in a while someone comes by our store and falls in love with one of 'em and takes one home. with players, we love to do side by side comparos, the differences become apparent very quickly.
i have about 6 boomerangs, most are in line for restore/repair.
parapedal.
wilson has the freak wah, which is based on the parapedal. sounds very close to the originals as far as i can tell. in burgerman's demo vid ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uneGh0c5j1s&feature=g-all-u&context=G2f93b59FAAAAAAAAAAA ), i could see he was using a pot that looks identical to the mr.supercrybaby dunlop pot. i wonder if he is getting his pots through someone selling dunlop repair parts? i think those are 100k dualgangs. wilson has been known to sub in higher value pots for lower in the past ( wilson rippah Q based on boomerang but using an icar taper 180k propot in place of the 25K). owned a rippah Q, it sounded great ( after i replaced the scratchy pot) but the build quality and parts were so- so. almost all chinese parts, incl enclosure. i think all chinese pots are crap, they get scratchy in no time (dunlop mccoy reissue, roc pot, propot, etc etc). hotpotz2 are the only pots that really hold up. george blekas of pedalworks agrees.
BTW, all of the late model dunlops with cheap chinese pots are scratchy. they messed up when they got away from the hotpotz2.
thanks for checking out my vids! believe it or not, i have bought and sold a bunch of wahs that i didn't even make videos of! i only make vids of the ones that i think are historic, modded by me, or unique.
my two holy grail wahs are:
-67 maestro boomerang BG1, no one knows how many exist but i think it is way less than 100.
http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/Boomerang3.htm
- teese rmc3 , made in 96, second or third year, but in the vox case, supposedly the last one made in a non-teese encolsure. sounds better and quite different from rmc3s of just 6 years later.
It's not an mk1 but at this price it can't possibly be that bad...($189)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GIBSON-MAESTRO-BOOMER-2-WAH-GUITAR-PEDAL-/140678676488?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20c11a4008
yes, that is an average price for that boomer 2. looks good but i am pretty sure that is a replacement pot. having the correct pot in these is very important to getting the true boomerang sound and feel.
Ah, good to know! thank you
in the 15 or so boomerangs i have worked on, only 5 or so had the original pot. out of these, only one wasn't scratchy.
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 27, 2012, 03:00:16 AM
Oh hellz yeah.
http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new (http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new)
You can actually drive the transistors to get a little grit with heavy pick attack (220R emitter resistor) and it sounds epic, little volume boost.
So is the 220R emitter the reason your clean wah sound is gritty? It sounds like your twin is totally clean, and the grit is coming from the wah by itself? or is it a volume boost causing the twin to get a little dirty? anyways...I lovvveeee what you have discovered here (holy grail) as many others have said, I'm not normally a wah fan, but this is gonna make me a wah fanatic.
So, I do want the possibility to get a totally clean wah, would throwing the emitter resistor on a switch with the stock value give me your gritty sound along with clean? or is it something elses contributing to the non pure clean tone?
Jake can probably answer your question better, but I will add that in addition to the emitter resistor value, the transistors you use might have an effect on the perceived headroom as well. I ended up with a little more dirt when I switched to the 2N2925s.
Quote from: claytushaywood on February 06, 2012, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 27, 2012, 03:00:16 AM
Oh hellz yeah.
http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new (http://soundcloud.com/jakefuzz/wah-new)
You can actually drive the transistors to get a little grit with heavy pick attack (220R emitter resistor) and it sounds epic, little volume boost.
So is the 220R emitter the reason your clean wah sound is gritty? It sounds like your twin is totally clean, and the grit is coming from the wah by itself? or is it a volume boost causing the twin to get a little dirty? anyways...I lovvveeee what you have discovered here (holy grail) as many others have said, I'm not normally a wah fan, but this is gonna make me a wah fanatic.
So, I do want the possibility to get a totally clean wah, would throwing the emitter resistor on a switch with the stock value give me your gritty sound along with clean? or is it something elses contributing to the non pure clean tone?
I think it is a combination of both. I have a Fender Twin Reverb so you can't really drive the front end of it like a lot of other amplifiers. When you hit it with a large volume signal it gets sort of spikey. I think most of the distortion is coming from the transistors in the wah though. The 220R moves the transistor closer to saturation where it is clipping off the tops of the guitars wave form. I think your best bet is putting a switch on that resistor (you may get a pop) to get that slightly gritty tone when you lean into the strings.
I like the idea of off loading the way to ring simultaneously but I have to agree that it does sound a little weird. The 1M should be a good alternative though you would be far better at it with something a little more powerful. Been playing with something similar, but a lot more toned, or at least how the sound appears to me. But nevertheless will be better with a lot more tweaking done to this side.