madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Requests => Topic started by: Jack5 on March 14, 2012, 11:50:00 AM

Title: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on March 14, 2012, 11:50:00 AM
Reckon this one meets a couple of criteria for a project:

Not in production (website says its having a rest).

Not available for reasonable dollars on the second hand market either.  When and if available that is.

Customizable level of complexity - eg I think switching on this is electronic, which I'm assuming could be omitted to simplify the project.

Hopefully no unobtainable mojo parts - wishfull thinking here, I don't know.

Many seem to hold this pedal out to be best in its class as far as flangers go as well as having some unique features.


Negs would be:

It may be difficult to find one available for RE.

Its a complex build (could be a positive depending on your view).  I would treat it as a challenge.

Limited market for boards??

The guy is a small scale boutique builder and I know some may have a problem with supposedly cutting his lunch.  That said, its been out of production for a while now with no indications as to when its coming back.

Overall, at the price advertised on the website its a pretty good value product IMHO given its a complex build and reported production quality, the design and uniqueness of what it does and its robustness - its just not in production and said to be so for economic reasons.  IMHO this is the clincher for what makes it a viable diy project - too costly to produce as a commercial product (in its current form) but so rare/unique/unavailable and challenging as a project that a diyer who is not going to count the cost of their labour will happily build one.  Maybe not a large production run madbean board but a worthwhile one nonetheless.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Sigesmundninja on March 14, 2012, 05:02:21 PM
I'm glad to say I have one of these. Think I've had it for  8-10 years. I took out the PCB yesterday just cause I was curios about what was in there. Foxrox makes super-cool effects! for a long time my pedalboard was just  guitar > Wah > Captain Coconut > hot cake > TZF
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Mich P on March 14, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
Sigesmundninja wrote :
"I'm glad to say I have one of these. Think I've had it for  8-10 years. I took out the PCB yesterday just cause I was curios about what was in there. Foxrox makes super-cool effects! for a long time my pedalboard was just  guitar > Wah > Captain Coconut > hot cake > TZF"

Wow i would love to see inside pics !!
Mich P.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: gtr2 on March 14, 2012, 06:34:40 PM
This thread is useless without pics.  ;D
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Sigesmundninja on March 14, 2012, 07:29:26 PM
Might be able to get some posted in about 3 hours when get of from work
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Sigesmundninja on March 14, 2012, 10:34:00 PM
enjoy... but there seames to be some dirt on the lens.

Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Mich P on March 14, 2012, 11:31:35 PM
Thanks Sigesmundninja that's an amazing machine !!
Mich P.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: jkokura on March 15, 2012, 12:01:25 AM
MN3007 and NE571 for sure. Looks like a complicated version of a simple flanger.

Jacob
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Scruffie on March 15, 2012, 02:25:29 AM
Quote from: jkokura on March 15, 2012, 12:01:25 AM
MN3007 and NE571 for sure. Looks like a complicated version of a simple flanger.

Jacob
Basically what Through Zero Flanging is, almost two flangers in one.

From my experiments, Companding on the 'dry' line would be useful as this is supposed to be your clean signal only it's very slightly delayed, so minimal distortion here and a sound representative of your inputs dynamics is desireable. Companding on the wet line is just good design but could be avoided.

I'm working on a TZF project inbetween other things so if that becomes something we'll have to see as time permits, but it's certainly an effect I want on my board.

Thanks for the pictures though, it's interesting to see how well made this is, it'd be nice to know what clock he's using, from the looks of it a 4013 & 4049?
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Sigesmundninja on March 15, 2012, 08:38:34 AM
LM348N x 4
CD4046BE x 2
JRC4558D x 2
NE571N x 2
MN3007 x 2

and there is a 8-dip chip under a heatsink that i cant identify
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on March 15, 2012, 12:40:59 PM
So this has progressed more quickly than I anticipated.

Thanks Sigesmundninja for the photos.

Quote from the foxrox website:

'Power - Paradox requires 9 Volts, AC (9VAC) in order to operate. A power adaptor is included with each unit. Don't confuse 9VAC with 9VDC, which is what you get from a 9V battery. That's what most other effects use, but not TZF. TZF's internal circuitry runs at 36Volts DC, split into plus and minus 18 Volts."

Does this help identify the function of the unidentified chip under the heatsink?  With 9VAC input and supply ultimately delivering + and - 18V rails a voltage multiplier/inverter would be required.

Is this what the heatsink would be for?

What is the T220 package?  DC regulator to supply the charge pump?

there are a couple of weird looking components.  the two orange rectangular shape items (five pins I think)  audio relays?

Very excited in hoping that this ends up in a full on tracing thread.

Any chance of some photos with greater resolution Sigesmundninja?







Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Mich P on March 15, 2012, 01:25:18 PM
Agree, tracing this one would be fantastic,
and all the chips still available, so ...
Mich P.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Sigesmundninja on March 15, 2012, 10:19:14 PM
My camera lens really needs a good cleaning, this is the best I can come up with for now


(http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/589/dsc0003y.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/807/dsc0003y.jpg/)

(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3882/dsc0001eo.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/dsc0001eo.jpg/)

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7128/dsc0006oc.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/dsc0006oc.jpg/)

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1071/dsc0005ars.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/dsc0005ars.jpg/)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8389/dsc0004zh.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dsc0004zh.jpg/)

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3643/dsc0007yn.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/dsc0007yn.jpg/)


Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: mattc on March 15, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
I would LOVE to be able to build one of these!
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Mich P on March 16, 2012, 08:30:03 AM
What we need is a tracing doctor !
Mich P.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on March 16, 2012, 03:40:41 PM
Awesome photos Sigesmundninja!!

I've never done a trace before but happy to give it a crack and happy to receive some help ;D

Sigesmundninja, I am thinking that we may need a couple of lot more pieces of info from you.

Things I can think of:
Cap values 70
Hidden/obscured resistor values about 10
Diodes 5
One transistor
Trimpot values 3

Offboard components

Pots
Speed 100kA
Manual 50kA
Depth ??
Env 50kA
Regen 100kB
Mix - dual pot???
TZF 100kA

Resistor from mix pot lug to ground bus wire - is there only one?

Component from Speed pot lug to ground at Manual pot.

Two resistors on the back of the board 470K

Wiring arrangements for the Modulution and Audio connector pins.

Modulation pins
White - to Common1 of DPDT TZF polarity footswitch
Brown  - Both?? wipers of MixA and MixB
Green1
Yellow1
Green2
Yellow2
Yellow3
Yellow4
Blue - Wiper of Speed pot
Red - hot lug of Manual pot
Green3
Yellow5


Audio pins
Blue1
Green1 - Hot lug of Regen pot
Blue2
Blue3
Orange1
Red - not clear whether to common or one of the throws to polarity footswitch
Blue4
Orange2
Blue5
Orange3

I have annotated one of your pics Sigesmundninja link here

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/120/annotatedcomponentsidep.jpg

Mr resistor code reading is whitebelt - is anyone up for validating a few resistor codes?

Just spent 5 hours on this and haven't even started any pcb tracing yet :o

and how do you work out traces under components?




Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: badgerific on March 17, 2012, 10:43:28 PM
I'd be up for buying a board or two to build this up if it get's done as I'd love to have a play with one :)
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Effectsiation on April 06, 2012, 02:31:43 PM
Hey guys, just wanted to say great work on this so far! I've always wanted to build a TZF!
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on April 09, 2012, 11:53:45 AM
i've had a couple of sessions trying to make some progress on this.  really difficult without access to the actual pedal as there is a lot of guesswork trying to work out where the traces go and I'm not skilled enough to be making reliable educated guesses.  In any case there are many component values that cannot be determined from the pics alone.

Need help from someone who owns one.  Might try over at FSB.  Is it OK to post a link there to this thread?

Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Effectsiation on April 16, 2012, 03:03:52 PM
Jack5: I may be speaking out of turn here, but I don't think anyone here would mind that. Many MBP designs get their genesis from research done at FSB.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on September 27, 2013, 08:52:55 AM
Bought one on ebay - arrived today.  Its awesome.  Haven't opened it up yet.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Bret608 on September 27, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
I'd love to see this turn into an actual project! Best of luck tracing.  :)
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: LaceSensor on September 27, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: Jack5 on September 27, 2013, 08:52:55 AM
Bought one on ebay - arrived today.  Its awesome.  Haven't opened it up yet.

LIKE
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: vintagecharlie on October 06, 2013, 10:04:29 AM
Quote from: Jack5 on September 27, 2013, 08:52:55 AM
Bought one on ebay - arrived today.  Its awesome.  Haven't opened it up yet.

This post made me, a long time lurker on this forum, to register, just in order to  say that i would be really grateful if you could trace it and this would be come a project. As, just as you stated in your first post in this topic - it seems to have the ideal prerequisites for a project - crazy resale price, not produced anymore, etc. I'm really looking forward to this and wish you good luck!
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Jack5 on January 20, 2014, 01:10:51 PM
 :'(   finally opened it up.  not good.  I think this board has more than two layers.  Tracing is going to be a nightmare.  Does anyone have any tips for tracing boards like this?
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: LaceSensor on May 14, 2014, 02:50:54 PM
the TO220 package is a JRC317

the ICs which are hard to read are LM386N (x4, DIP14)

the heatsinked DIP8 is a JRC 4556 AD
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: vintagecharlie on June 04, 2014, 04:39:34 PM
It would be fantastic, if there would be a way to get this project going. I have searched high and low for good DIY alternatives, but none of the solutions and sound samples sound really convincing. And then some working units are not really user friendly - you have to tweak and re-tweak each time you change some of the settings, etc. The Paradox TZF does the zero flange perfectly and you can dial it in in many ways AND it seems to be simple to use from a user perspective, but the price of used units is off limits.
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on June 04, 2014, 04:52:47 PM
All we need are 2 things....

1) Someone willing to offer up the pedal for RE.

2) Our BEST MBP RE artist to go over it with the fine tooth comb  :o

Lets Get 'R Done!!!  8)
Title: Re: Foxrox Paradox TZF
Post by: LaceSensor on June 04, 2014, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: vintagecharlie on June 04, 2014, 04:39:34 PM
It would be fantastic, if there would be a way to get this project going. I have searched high and low for good DIY alternatives, but none of the solutions and sound samples sound really convincing. And then some working units are not really user friendly - you have to tweak and re-tweak each time you change some of the settings, etc. The Paradox TZF does the zero flange perfectly and you can dial it in in many ways AND it seems to be simple to use from a user perspective, but the price of used units is off limits.

There is a nice project called NZF (near-zero flanger) over  on one of the "other" forums
It sounds reallly epic!

For what its worth the EHX flanger hoax does a brilliant TZF, albeit mono. It will also go far more cray cray than the Paradox.

The problem with RE the Paradox is that its just so massively complicated.
I might take mine apart when I get time and do some good scans of the PCB and stuff but noone is even sure yet if its just a 2 layer board (although I would say 99% sure it is)