Nature Dweller - Cave Dweller with some forum mods.
(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nature-dweller-1.jpg?w=220)(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nature-dweller-2.jpg?w=400)(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nature-dweller-3.jpg?w=400)(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nature-dweller-guts.jpg?w=400)
I wanted to get this perfect before posting a build report, but I would call this a 90% successful mod job. :-\ A demo is uploading now.
I incorporated a couple changes from around the forum. The best is the 15K resistor across lugs 1 and 2 of the dwell knob, which spreads out the repeats in the middle of the knob and moves the oscillation to the last nudge of the control. I used the stock pot value otherwise.
The second change I made was an attempt to correct the tonal change. The original cave dweller darkens your overall tone when it's on and also has a tiny bit of a volume drop. I used a 68nF input cap and 470K input resistor, which cuts some lows but increases the total volume. It's not ideal. I think better/ideal values would have been 47nF or 56nF and 510K, but I didn't have a 510K 1/8W resistor. I also decreased C3 to 3n3. Any lower and it starts hissing too much. Honestly, I think it's better to live with darker repeats and brighten the total effect. Brian was right that this circuit's special nature is filling in underneath the dry signal. So I will probably be bumping C3 up.
But before I start desoldering more stuff, I'm getting a (very) small amount of motorboating. [EDIT: It goes away when I've got another pedal in line before the 'dweller but sometimes comes back at certain settings on, e.g., a boost.] Does anyone have a fix for that? Or is it somehow tied to the mods I did (especially C3)?
Ghost Note - Afterlife with Sensitivity knob.
(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ghost-note.jpg?w=220)(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ghost-note-guts.jpg?w=350)
Brian suggested that fiddling with R7 could change the sensitivity. So I put a minimum resistance of 24K on a 50K pot. Stock settings are near the center. CCW is more dynamics and headroom before it squishes, and CW is squishier with a hint of bloom. I highly recommend this mod if you use multiple guitars with different pickup outputs.
Ooh, I really love the paint job on the Nature Dweller! :o
Agreed. The Nature Dweller paint job is fantastic.
Thanks guys! I hsve to say, it was pretty excruciating having it sit around for almost a week without knowing exactly what I wanted the art to be. I figured out I wanted to do with it last night, but I didn't have time to paint it - I had a show opening for the songwriter John Gorka, so I kind of had important things to do involved actually playing music ...
Very cool... I wanna see a shot of all your 1590as together... the 'baby board'!
Great build. The motorboating is most likely the pt2399. Try subbing in another.
Josh
Quote from: gtr2 on June 26, 2012, 01:12:52 PMThe motorboating is most likely the pt2399. Try subbing in another.
Oh bugger. It's soldered (even though I would have had enough vertical space this time). Ah well. It's not a huge issue -- I don't hear it while there's actual notes going on, just when the amp is turned up and there's nothing else going on, and even then it's not usually above a whisper with the echo knob way up (it seems to be tied to the "minimally filtered" part). I had really good luck with no "bad" chips the last four PT2399s I used, but lesson learned about always testing them in a working build first.
I do think I'll eventually go through one last round of changes to the Dweller, to cut the input cap some more and bump c3 back up to the original value to kill some noise but keep the dry tone brighter.
Love your paint job! Good notes of mods available.
Man all these baby board builds are giving me a Gollum/Smeagol coveting type feeling that I must build me some baby boards! haha
They look awesome man! I hope you can figure it out and get the dweller running 100%...wish I can be of more help, but I would first try Josh's suggestion of swapping the PT...
-K
Just a quick update in case any runs across this post in the future ... the PT2399 chip has been replaced and the motorboating is far quieter, though there is still some. Basically, I destroyed the original chip and desoldered its pins one at a time ... then cleaned out the holes and put a socket in. I will be using sockets all the time now for PT2399s. And you should too! :)
If you plan on making more PT2399 based boards in future, perhaps you could use the Nature Dweller as a testbed for the PT2399 chips you plan on using, to see if they motorboat before hard soldering them in?
Quote from: alanp on August 17, 2012, 09:40:33 PM
If you plan on making more PT2399 based boards in future, perhaps you could use the Nature Dweller as a testbed for the PT2399 chips you plan on using, to see if they motorboat before hard soldering them in?
Yeah, and I marked the bad ones after testing every one I have on hand.
I have a Neptune with a socket, too. I just got overconfident after soldering an untested on into my first Cave Dweller. Lesson learned.
Mr Midway! I have followed many of your boxes here, even though i havent typed in all threads. The Nature Dweller is my favourite of your artwork so far. You really nailed it this time. Very nice!
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 21, 2012, 06:22:32 PM
Mr Midway! I have followed many of your boxes here, even though i havent typed in all threads. The Nature Dweller is my favourite of your artwork so far. You really nailed it this time. Very nice!
Thanks, I've been enjoying your builds, too. You have a real knack for clean graphics and readable but not bland lettering. Seems good for actually knowing what the knobs do from a meter and a half away. :)
Sorry for necroposting but I would like to comment values posted by Jon in the first post here.
I just built it using:
C1 - 4.7nF (used this instead of 47nF by mistake, but it sounds soo better).
R1 - 510k
C3 - 3.3nF
R9 - 5.1k (to decrease volume boost)
I must say it sounds now very transparent! It sounds very, very natural and with this mods I believe it should be named Nature Dweller 100% :) There is a slight volume boost. The more you lower R9 the less is decrease the volume boost. So there is a big difference if you replace stock 100k with 51k, but the more down you get the less difference your hear. With 20k the volume boost is acceptable and I believe it wont be audible on higher volume levels (as human ear detects volume differences best when they are low, the higher it gest the more difficult to hear them).
Also there is a little issue with distortion that shows up when you hit strings really hard. Of course I know its because of value changes but also because of my active pickups. Anyway its a great built with these mods and I think they should be replaced or at least pointed in the project document.
Thanks Jon, and thanks MadBeanPedals for this awesome build!
P.S. I have sockets on the values I've posted, so Im still able to make some changes. I suggest you do the same when you build it. Its much easier then to desolder sockets and solder in proper values than resoldering every single part. Just use DIP6 socket and break it in half with side cutter.
Update:
Well... It sounds transparent on clean, when I use distortion before it it still darkens the tone heavily. I guess its impossible to solve?
The cave dweller is bar far my favorite delay. Mine has a permanent plac on my board. That being said I am going to build a second one and use the mod posted a few days ago with a second stomp on it to go back and forth between long and short delays. We play a Manson song and the cave dweller with long delays is great for industrial type noise.
Quote from: Rethfing on February 03, 2013, 12:10:50 PM
C1 - 4.7nF (used this instead of 47nF by mistake, but it sounds soo better).
? C1 is supposed to be 100nF, not 47uF. The only 47uF cap in the cave dweller is the reference voltage power filtering cap on the PT2399. It is not part of the audio circuit and simply provides DC ripple filter.
Quote from: Rethfing on February 03, 2013, 12:10:50 PM
Also there is a little issue with distortion that shows up when you hit strings really hard.
Is it a really hard, "bladt" distortion sound just on the front of the note?
Quote from: Rethfing on February 03, 2013, 12:10:50 PM
Well... It sounds transparent on clean, when I use distortion before it it still darkens the tone heavily. I guess its impossible to solve?
For the most part, in the Cave Dweller, yes. :( We're partly limited by stuff internal to the PT2399, especially the internal op amps. Try putting it before your distortion pedals.
@Jon
No no, I said 47nF in the first place, not 47uF :) But by mistake I have soldered 4.7nF instead of 47nF suggested by you in your first post. It sounds good though.
About this distortion - its like Tube Screamer distortion on the front of the note as you said. Its about 0.5s long. I had this problem with Deep Blue Delay too, but it was partially solved by folks from DIYStompboxes (here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=101035.0). I guess I can live with that.
The only thing that bothers me is volume boost. There MUST be some way to decrease it. I really hate when my pedals boost volume, because playing in a band requires me to play at specified volume. I cant allow myself to boost volume when I turn my delay on, its just undesired.
Quote from: Rethfing on February 03, 2013, 07:32:28 PM
@Jon
No no, I said 47nF in the first place, not 47uF :) But by mistake I have soldered 4.7nF instead of 47nF suggested by you in your first post. It sounds good though.
Oops! Sorry! :P
I'll PM you the mod to deal with the distortion.
Did you try increasing the 1K at the output? Remember, it's a voltage divider, and a high-pass filter in conjunction with the output cap. Decreasing JUST R9 is reducing the bass, but not decreasing the volume. It's like you've used a smaller volume pot at the end, but you're still leaving it almost all the way up. Try a 2.2K, and go up from there.
Thanks for the PM.
Can I increase the input resistor? Will it cause lower signal to go through the circuit? I would rather decrease the volume at the beggining (so it wont distort) than at the output.
Quote from: Rethfing on February 04, 2013, 11:43:30 AM
Can I increase the input resistor?
Yes. It will reduce treble as well, maybe in a different way than reducing it at the ouput.
It's usually better to reduce volume at the output of an effect as you get a higher signal:noise ratio, but if you're getting PT2399 distortion, then it's probably the right call to reduce it at the beginning.
Jon, Can you pm me the distortion fix as well?
Quote from: studiodunn on February 04, 2013, 06:50:33 PM
Jon, Can you pm me the distortion fix as well?
See the Hamlet Delay thread. I'm not going to post it here because it's not a verified mod. I don't know what it'll do in the Cave Dweller. It might make the whole signal below unity.
Quote from: midwayfair on June 25, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Ghost Note - Afterlife with Sensitivity knob.
Brian suggested that fiddling with R7 could change the sensitivity. So I put a minimum resistance of 24K on a 50K pot. Stock settings are near the center. CCW is more dynamics and headroom before it squishes, and CW is squishier with a hint of bloom. I highly recommend this mod if you use multiple guitars with different pickup outputs.
Hi! First time poster here. I know this thread is very old but am hoping Jon or someone else can answer this as I am interested in building an Afterlife with the sensitivity pot mod:
Question is trying to understand how you "...put a minimum resistance of 24K on a 50K pot. "
I haven't found any clear answer to this after doing some googling and such. Thanks!
Quote from: nottoohigh on November 08, 2013, 09:12:20 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on June 25, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Ghost Note - Afterlife with Sensitivity knob.
Brian suggested that fiddling with R7 could change the sensitivity. So I put a minimum resistance of 24K on a 50K pot. Stock settings are near the center. CCW is more dynamics and headroom before it squishes, and CW is squishier with a hint of bloom. I highly recommend this mod if you use multiple guitars with different pickup outputs.
Hi! First time poster here. I know this thread is very old but am hoping Jon or someone else can answer this as I am interested in building an Afterlife with the sensitivity pot mod:
Question is trying to understand how you "...put a minimum resistance of 24K on a 50K pot. "
I haven't found any clear answer to this after doing some googling and such. Thanks!
Use a 24k resistor in series with a 50k pot (just lugs 1 and 2). When the pot is at 0, the resistance will be 24k.
Quote
Use a 24k resistor in series with a 50k pot (just lugs 1 and 2). When the pot is at 0, the resistance will be 24k.
Thanks Jon for a speedy reply! By that does it mean connect the 24K across lugs 1 and 2, or just connect one end of the 24K to either lug 1 or 2? Sorry, I've not done such a thing before.
Nice thread. I'm going to have to try this extra knob on my afterlife.
For anyone wondering, here's how to do the Ghost Note mod:
Connect lugs 2 and 3 of the pot. Solder one side of the resistor to lugs 2/3, and the other side goes to the PCB. A wire from lug 1 of the pot goes to the other resistor hole on the PCB. Order doesn't matter. You could use a 100K pot without the limiting resistor (or even larger) instead if you like, but I found the 50K + 24K gave plenty of range.
I used a linear so that noon was the original value, but feel free to deviate!