I need some advice, because I know that plenty of people here live in small apartments or have dealt with similar situations in the past.
So my wife and I bought a house three years ago. It's a duplex, which and things have finally reached a head with my neighbor, who bangs on the wall basically any time I pick up an instrument now. I don't think I play that loud: My amp is about the volume of my singing voice (which also draws complaints), and it's well below the level it's set at even for restaurant shows. in response to his previous complaints, I've now basically limited any guitar playing at a volume above a speaking voice or TV to the hour I come home from work, and not even every day. Apparently this is still too much for him.
I've lived in apartments and never had an issue like this. I'd expect someone to complain if I went on for hours, or if I were actually playing much louder than an acoustic guitar, but I really don't know what to do when even an acoustic guitar is apparently too loud. I can't just never use my amp. I'm actually fortunate enough to play live and I need to know what things sound like. I also need to practice singing (because frankly I need it), and it's hardly practical or possible to practice proper singing technique at a whisper.
I've asked some people about this, and even though they're my friends and I'd expect them to take my side, they all basically say the same thing: Well, you're playing at a reasonable hour, the volume doesn't seem unreasonable, your neighbor needs thicker skin, etc. Baltimore City has a hopelessly vague noise ordinance law (no decibel level or quiet hours specified), so I'm stuck with some sort of reasonable person standard. Maryland does have a noise ordinance with something like 65dB as a daytime limit -- given that there's at least 15 feet involved, if I'm playing around 85dB, an online calculator puts me at ~60dB without even factoring in the intervening wall. So I already am fairly confident that I'm not violating ordinances or likely to get fined.
I have no desire to go to war with my neighbors and we planned on keeping this house for the rest of our lives. But I really have no idea how to further compromise with him.
I'd love any advice you guys can give.
http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/sound-dampening-curtain-sound-dampening-blankets-sound-control-blanket.aspx
Have you had a sit-down with the neighbor and explain what you are playing and why? He/she/they might be more understanding if they understood why you were "making all that noise". But maybe you've already done this.
If you really do plan to stay there forever, I would recommend two courses of action, one short-term and one long-term:
Short: as murdog linked, check out some soundproofing options. And focus on moving your gear into the room/space that is furthest away from the adjoining wall with the neighbor. Unless the neighbor is above or below you, in which case that would change the soundproofing strategy.
Long: consider buying the other half of the duplex. Then you could either rent it out only to cool musicians or people who are tolerant to normal levels of sound, or you could knock out the wall and double your space. I know this sounds extreme, but it is possible if it is something you really want to do.
thanks for the link, murdog. I'm looking at doing the soundproofing right now.
I think if I move my amp to a corner of the basement, I only have to build a little booth and do two "walls" (the open space in front of me) and the ceiling in the 3.2mm to get it to probably television levels, then I can get a second layer later when I can afford it.
It's an excuse to get on with finishing the basement like I had originally planned when we bought the house. There's a sofa down there that we squeezed in when we were first moving but can't get out. Heh.
People who bang on walls because they think you are being too loud are not likely to be too reasonable in my experience. I had a similar situation once with a crazy neighbor who would stomp on the floor at the slightest disturbance. Fortunately she finally got kicked out for never paying her rent.
The only advice I can offer is to try and talk to the person first to work out a solution. Then if the behavior continues file a police report stating that the person is harassing you. Write down the time and date of every instance they bang on the wall and include that in the report. Also include the steps you have taken to try and prevent disturbing your neighbor including restricting the volume, the hours you play and attempting to talk to them to work out a solution. That sets a precedent so that if the situation continues to escalate you are essentially covered if you call the police at a later time.
I feel your pain. I live in an apartment both above someone and sharing a wall with someone. It was easy to make my roommate happy, I just played when he wasn't home and he never complained (business student = always gone). My downstairs neighbor wasn't so understanding. She said because my amplifier was on the floor above her she could hear every little noise. I too felt like my amp was no louder than a normal television and would play anywhere from 2-6pm only. Despite this she kept calling management and filing noise complaints. I moved my stuff up to the second floor and she never complained again. Now I think the neighbor we share a wall with hates us though... The one thing I really wanted to do though was to sit down with them and ask when was a good block of time and during what days for them to be okay with the noise. I felt it would come off as a little strange though as you were pretty much asking when they wouldn't be home. It's a tough problem man, I was even looking at the really low wattage amps for a while. We can all dream of houses out in the woods where we can turn our amps to 10.
I know you're not going to like this suggestion, but have you thought of getting a Pod or something that has a good headphone out?
If they still complain about the noise of your electric guitar unplugged, then you definitely know they have a screw loose ;).
I have to admitt though that I do have some sympathy for people if they have just got back from work, and then people like us start kicking out the jams while they are trying to relax and wind down.
Even an amp like a Fender Champ is loud enough to disturb people at full tilt.
I would avoid Police/Councils etc. and only go that route as a last resort; its pretty much certain that your relationship with your neighbours will deteriorate beyond repair if you get the police involved in any way.
I've had the same issue before in an apartment building: we could be playing acoustically at 5pm and they'd come knocking. In fact, it was so quiet that I could hear them leaving their apt. to come to ours, so I'd stop playing before they even got to me.
In the end, I'm with Madbean in the sense that people like this aren't reasonable in most cases. In my case it turns out my neighbours would still complain to my landlord even after we had fully complied with their wishes, but then he told me they also complained about EVERYTHING (windows condensate after a shower, etc.) and he wanted them gone. They moved out shortly after, thankfully!
We just bought a semi-detached home and definitely want to start on the right foot with our new, permanent neighbours, so I'm looking into sound absorption and amp placement too.
Good luck!
Thanks for all the advice, guys.
I used to live in a downtown apt. where virtually all tenants were artists or musicians when we moved in, so it was very relaxed and impromptu jams were the norm. Then a girl moved in nextdoor and beat on the walls with her shoes constantly, shouting obscenities at any hour that she could hear talking. Unfortunately, her bedroom was adjacent to our living room and we were newly 20 rockers basically. It didn't help that below her lived a punk band that would crank their amps in spite.
We did talk to the shoe-banger, though. She was irate at first, but since we were kind she admitted she kept some odd sleeping hours and she was actually herself a professional singer. I think she felt bad afterward, as she'd stop by to say hi until we moved out. Sometimes the human element diffuses tense situations, though I don't make a habit of expecting that.
Though from most experiences I'd agree with Madbean that wall-knockers are generally unreasonable, this was an exception. It is worth it to try discussing this with your neighbors, IMO. Especially since you have bought that side of the duplex. It's much easier to be angry with a stranger who happens to live next door than it is someone who has made an effort to communicate respectfully. It's a roll of the dice every time, unfortunately.
Quote from: whitebread47 on August 03, 2012, 04:34:03 PMSometimes the human element diffuses tense situations, though I don't make a habit of expecting that.
So true.
I think that for the sake of "due diligence", you really must attempt to discuss the situation with the angry neighbor. If it works out, then great. And if not, at least you know you've given it your best shot to be reasonable.
Another thing you might try, midway, is to set up your guitar and amp at the volume you have been playing at, then have your wife bang around on the guitar while you go over to the neighbor's side and get a real notion of what they are hearing. It would require a high level of cooperation from the neighbor, but perhaps they would be impressed that you were trying to see (or rather hear) things from their perspective. Or maybe they are just jerks. ;D
Quote from: culturejam on August 03, 2012, 04:49:45 PMAnother thing you might try, midway, is to set up your guitar and amp at the volume you have been playing at, then have your wife bang around on the guitar while you go over to the neighbor's side and get a real notion of what they are hearing. It would require a high level of cooperation from the neighbor, but perhaps they would be impressed that you were trying to see (or rather hear) things from their perspective. Or maybe they are just jerks. ;D
She wanted to do just that. Well, except that she was going to go over to their house. I'm pretty much the wrong person to talk to anyone, ever.
Quote from: midwayfair on August 03, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
She wanted to do just that. Well, except that she was going to go over to their house. I'm pretty much the wrong person to talk to anyone, ever.
Haha, it's the same way in my house.... when someone needs a talkin' to, send my wife. She gets the job done.
id just ignore the banging and wait for them to come speak to you in person.
Its the least they can do, and it really sounds like its their problem, not yours.
Before we bought our house we lived in a loft in an arts-specific complex downtown. The neighbor was constantly leaving notes on our door about TV noise and us talking at regular speaking volume. I never played my guitar at home at the time as I had a good rehearsal space a few blocks away but eventually I had to bring the amp home, face it at the adjoining wall, crank it all the way up and play as many AC/DC covers as I could remember in order to set a precedent of what "loud" really is. I should mention that I am good friends with the owner of the complex, so getting kicked out was not an issue. After about an hour I turned it off and we never got a note or comment again. This was the, "I might be a jerk, but I am trying to prove a point" method of dealing with the situation. YMMV
Dang. Your situation sucks man. Sorry you have to deal with this. I don't know but honestly given your hobby it might be best to think about getting your own home, at least as a longer term goal. No matter what, someone on the other side of a 2x6 wall may eventually get tired of your "noise".
I have always owned a house and I wouldn't have it any other way. Owning a home is pretty easy in the Midwest though (where people move to after they have given up on their dreams) ;D
Bummer. Hope you find a good resolution... he sounds like a douche to be honest. But, we all have to share space somewhere... and its always worth keeping the peace with neighbours. :-\
???I've never heard of buying half a duplex. ??? How does that work? What about roof maintenance, Plumbing issues etc. Sorry to be off topic but that just baffles me.
You might think of a Duplex as an upstairs downstairs, but they are commonly side by side. In that case, all you do is share one wall, but the properties are entirely separate.
Jacob
Quote from: BaldPaul on August 10, 2012, 06:11:57 PM
???I've never heard of buying half a duplex. ??? How does that work? What about roof maintenance, Plumbing issues etc. Sorry to be off topic but that just baffles me.
I can't speak for all Duplexes, but around here most of them have a management company that charges a monthly association fee. That fee goes towards maintenance in common areas, such as roofing and plumbing in the common wall. Of course, each association has its own bylaws about responsibility.
If there are plumbing issues is a non-common area, it usually is the responsibility of the homeowner, again depending on the bylaws.
Ours is a separate house that shares a single wall, like Jacob said.
So ... my solution to this problem turned out to be that I'm building a 6x8 isolation booth in my basement. It's partly done: I've got the wall frames up and I'm hanging the door tonight. After that, it's just a matter of putting up four layers of drywall and figuring out what to stuff the ceiling with. I even got to use the couch that's been in our basement for three years that we couldn't get back out of the basement when we were moving in! It's going to be a comfy little guitar cave. Exhausting to build by myself, though.
Builders building buildings to play pedals built by builder. :)
So, it turns out that when the neighbors bang on your wall for playing an *acoustic* that the cops in Baltimore are not thrilled about getting called.
Uh oh...
This ain't gonna end well :(
cops mad at the neighbors for calling over acoustic guitar, or mad at you for playing it?
Quote from: Haberdasher on February 18, 2013, 11:31:37 PM
cops mad at the neighbors for calling over acoustic guitar, or mad at you for playing it?
Sounded like one was pretty mad at the neighbors for calling them. The other was very calm and suggested that I play in a room that doesn't share a wall to keep the peace. Neither seemed to think I was being unreasonable thinking I could play an acoustic guitar in my house.
If I could find something for the ceiling of it, the practice space in the basement is done and I would stop causing trouble. Also they claimed they were "sleeping" at 5:00 pm. ::) Honestly, though, banging on the wall over an acoustic during daylight hours is approaching completely unreasonable and I wouldn't be surprised if he called in the future at the merest hint of a guitar no matter how loud.
I didn't even know they were home. His truck wasn't on the parking pad and I didn't see her car.
Well, there is only one solution for this problem. Ampeg V4, A Les Paul custom, down tuned to C sharp, and a Muff derivative, lay down some extended riffs like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjO1FMO-0bI let em bang on the wall all the want eventually they will leave.
Or, not.
^^ lol! Time to break out the bagpipes?
I really feel your pain dude! We moved into a flat a few months ago, but fortunately for me, the guy who lived in the flat before me was a trumpet player and used to practice all the time, so they are grateful to have me! They don't know it, but i use my DR Z AirBrake Clone i built - constantly, it's great, quiet amp/good tone.
good luck!!
George
Quote from: G.G. on February 18, 2013, 11:47:16 PM
^^ lol! Time to break out the bagpipes?
I used to live in an apartment building with a guy who played bagpipes. I really liked having him there as nobody complained about my guitar playing as long as he was around.
That's really awful, Jon. To be at your own house, and not to be able to play your music, because of your silly neighbours. I say silly, because this is too much! They call the cops?? For what? For listening to nice music.. Truly? I feel sorry for them (in a bad way ;) )...
Hector
Bad neighbors suck. You've tried the diplomatic route, time to buy a drumset and not learn to play it, but not learn it passionately right up until the time the local noise bylaw says you should be reasonably quiet.
If it makes you fell any better, I live next door to hoarders who insist on putting the garbage they can't fit inside their house between their house and ours (the skunks like living under it), have four cars which they end up parking partially on my driveway (or even better across) because their garage is full of crap, their 32 year old live at home son (whose 4 years younger than me) insists on revving the engine of his POS mustang at 2am everyday, and generally they bring the value of my house down. When I move out, I'm pulling all the valve stems off their tires.
I take it that you only own the duplex half you live in? I.E. They are not your renters.
That situation sucks.
( Edit: Never mind. Read the rest of the thread.)
And honestly if they called the fuzz in, without even talking to you, over an acoustic guitar, I wouldn't worry about pleasing them.
Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.
Quote from: spaceboss on February 19, 2013, 10:29:11 PM
Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.
Yep. I agree. It's obvious they aren't going to be civil no matter what. Just hold to 'my legal right,' and be able to back it up. Once you go that route they can't complain, they can only move out.
Quote from: jubal81 on February 19, 2013, 11:52:53 PM
Quote from: spaceboss on February 19, 2013, 10:29:11 PM
Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.
Yep. I agree. It's obvious they aren't going to be civil no matter what. Just hold to 'my legal right,' and be able to back it up. Once you go that route they can't complain, they can only move out.
I agree, too. If you feel like meeting in the middle, then you could consider finding a time frame during the day where they will agree not to pound on the walls when you play.
If that doesn't work, then just fall back on the legality of it. An acoustic guitar should be nowhere near the SPL limit during waking hours.
It isn't reasonable for them to ask that you stop playing altogether, even if they find it annoying.
Actually that's great news. Now you crank up the electric at 5pm, make sure they call the cops again. If you are really lucky you will get the same cops, and then you tell them you were just playing your acoustic, this time in the basement. Neighbor looses all credibility...
Being the better man you ask if there is some way you can work out some kind of schedule.. Max volume etc. with the officers present, explaining that you are fortunate enough to be a practicing musician an do of course need to practice your craft.
At that point you get one of two things from your neighbor. A reasonable compromise, in which case everyone is happy... Or an unreasonable response, in which case your neighbor looses what credibility he has left and police will stop responding to your neighbors calls
Not very nice, but if they are determined to hate you, I say embrace it.
Agree in principle, but in practice I think it's worth some effort to reach an amicable agreement.
Not getting along with someone that lives right next door puts a bad vibe on almost every aspect of your time at home. (ask me how I know that.)
That said, it takes two to tango.
I'd suggest inviting them over for coffee with the intent of discussing how you can pursue your music with minimal disruption to them. If they continue to be unreasonable, then there's little else you can do to be considerate. you have constitutional rights as a homeowner, and they may very well be guilty of harrassing you.
Good luck! I used to jam at a friends house as a teen and the neighbors would call the cops as soon as I pulled in the driveway. Never once did the cops find us to be a problem, and a few told us we could feel free to be louder.
I had the first complaint against us in our apartment building this week. We live on the top floor of a 3 floor building with 10 apartments (flats) per floor. It's a two bedroom, and while spacious comparatively, it's still small. Every once in a while we turn our 3 and 1 year old loose on the hallway, where they screech and wail with glee up and down for 15 minutes or so.
Got a complaint about letting them do that at about 7PM the other night.
Usually we have no noise issues here. They were smart when they designed these places, and the living room/kitchens all share a wall with another living room/kitchen, and the one bedroom/bathroom with another bedroom/bathroom - so the end result is that if there's noise you can go to another area in the apartment and escape it.
I haven't had a neighbour quite so belligerent as yours, but I've certainly had noisy neighbours who I've had issue with - but usually it's cranked stereos or loud fighting at 2 AM...
Jacob
Quote from: aballen on February 20, 2013, 12:53:43 AM
Now you crank up the electric at 5pm, make sure they call the cops again. If you are really lucky you will get the same cops, and then you tell them you were just playing your acoustic, this time in the basement. Neighbor looses all credibility...
This is a horrible idea. Lying to the cops is not a good thing.
The neighbor and I have exchanged letters in the past. His position was not to play my electric loudly. My position was that I limit my electric playing to at most a few hours a week and that it is not louder than the acoustic for any extended period of time. I explained to him that I derive part of my income from music and that I would not stop playing completely. He offered no further reply.
I will most likely get a decibel meter, note the decibel rating (which I already know is not loud enough to actually violate noise ordinances), and inform him that if he continues to call the cops on me for something he's been duly informed is not a violation of noise ordinances, that I will file a harrassment claim. I work for a law office. A legal battle costs me absolutely nothing.
Quote from: midwayfair on February 20, 2013, 01:27:26 AM
I will file a harrassment claim. I work for a law office. A legal battle costs me absolutely nothing.
This.
Nothing shuts an asshole up faster than the scent of legal trouble from somebody who knows how the legal system works.
You've been more than generous in your attempts to compromise with these idiots. If they give you any more shit, get serious with them.
What a discussion! I feel for you midwayfair.
I've lived in a couple of apartments over the past several years, and it's really surprising how little complaints I have got. I basically play my guitar very loud. Need the amp cooking a little to see how your fuzz face slays it? no problem. Let's do that for an hour. Put all your modulation effects in a true bypass looper with feedback loop, hit the feedback switch and then wiggle the pots on the pedals for like...an hour? No problems whatsoever.
Looks I am living a dream.
I am always on the last floor though. But someone told me that the vibrations are transmited best through the floor onto the ceilings of neighbours. What's even weirder is that my landlord and his family lives in the apartment just below my apartment. They are certainly not deaf, their kids are of my age. I really can't understand how can I keep doing what I do without any complaints.
Hope your situation resolves quickly midwayfair, I'm cheering for you [for the amount of loudness vouched by the state law, and a little extra haha].
I just wanted to focus for a moment on the "consideration" aspect of this whole thing, which I feel frequently gets lost in these kinds of discussions (as we're all your target audience as musicians/builders):
- You are inconveniencing them (not the other way around), so that you can get what you want (and have things your way)
- You chose to be a musician/builder and take up this specialty line of work (noise comes with the territory)
- You also chose to purchase a home that is attached (a consideration, although possibly a financial decision)
So, don't get me wrong, I feel you on this one, but I think that this is something you should have anticipated to some degree. I think you are doing the right thing by building an isolation booth or doing any kind of noise proofing. Its your path/hobby, and you have to pay to play. Attached living spaces are not your kingdom, they're not private, they are a solution for some people's situations. If they were affordable and close enough to profitable jobs, I think we'd all be living in Fully Detached housing with huge basement studios.
For reference, I live in an end-unit Townhouse, but I'm lucky that my neighbors are a couple that is a cop and an EMT (they are always gone at night). However, I exchanged phone numbers with him, and he sends me text messages about any consideration issues (parties he is throwing that might be noisy, parking space issues, etc...) and I send him the same.
Anyway, I do feel your pain, and hope you can come to a resolution. :-\
I could not disagree more strongly. In this case they are inconveniencing him. Calling the police over an acoustic guitar, which is not louder than a television is an inconvenience--to put it mildly.
If he was playing the guitar loudly or at odd hours you'd have a point, but he is operating under the confines of the law. They are interfering with his ability to use
his property for lawful means within the limits of applicable ordinances.
If they have special needs, work odd hours--it is their responsibility to talk to him about that--and his choice to accommodate them.
If they call the police, a paramilitary organization, to complain without talking to Jon first: They lose the benefit of the doubt, and accommodation for the sake of politeness.
If he chooses to may an iso booth, at this point, it should be because the constant conflict is unpleasant--not because they deserve it.
Quote from: Effectsiation on February 20, 2013, 05:40:58 PM
I just wanted to focus for a moment on the "consideration" aspect of this whole thing, which I feel frequently gets lost in these kinds of discussions (as we're all your target audience as musicians/builders):
- You are inconveniencing them (not the other way around), so that you can get what you want (and have things your way)
- You chose to be a musician/builder and take up this specialty line of work (noise comes with the territory)
- You also chose to purchase a home that is attached (a consideration, although possibly a financial decision)
So, don't get me wrong, I feel you on this one, but I think that this is something you should have anticipated to some degree. I think you are doing the right thing by building an isolation booth or doing any kind of noise proofing. Its your path/hobby, and you have to pay to play. Attached living spaces are not your kingdom, they're not private, they are a solution for some people's situations. If they were affordable and close enough to profitable jobs, I think we'd all be living in Fully Detached housing with huge basement studios.
For reference, I live in an end-unit Townhouse, but I'm lucky that my neighbors are a couple that is a cop and an EMT (they are always gone at night). However, I exchanged phone numbers with him, and he sends me text messages about any consideration issues (parties he is throwing that might be noisy, parking space issues, etc...) and I send him the same.
Anyway, I do feel your pain, and hope you can come to a resolution. :-\
Quote from: spaceboss on February 20, 2013, 06:21:41 PM
If he was playing the guitar loudly or at odd hours you'd have a point, but he is operating under the confines of the law. They are interfering with his ability to use his property for lawful means within the limits of applicable ordinances.
Totally agree. He's acting within the existing parameters of the local laws, so it's got nothing to do with the idea that it's his "choice" to be a musician. So long as midway is playing his guitar, or watching his television, or farting below the max noise limit, the neighbors have no valid claims for a disturbance.
He's living next to a couple of ne'er-do-well douchebags that are, quite likely, behaving in a way that would legally be classified as harassment. They are making false claims to the police, which is generally a no-no.
Quote from: culturejam on February 20, 2013, 06:35:33 PM
He's living next to a couple of ne'er-do-well douchebags that are, quite likely, behaving in a way that would legally be classified as harassment. They are making false claims to the police, which is generally a no-no.
I do want to specify that this is really the only major issue I've had with them. They're otherwise nice people. he was an elementary school principal. Maybe he's just used to getting his way. (He's retired now; not sure about his wife.)
I think we would all likely agree that a compromise is best if it is possible. If they are willing to meet you halfway, then things could be neighborly.
To a certain extent, I would also understand if he was cranking up his Marshall half stack constantly as well, but this is very far from that. If their wish is that he never play music ever, well, I think he isn't going to be able to make them happy. As others have said, this isn't even close to the noise ordinance limits, so he really isn't obligated to stop playing, it's only if he wants to be accommodating. But compromise, by nature, isn't single-sided.
I feel your pain, I can only play for about 15 minutes so the neighbors don't call the cops, usually it's through my ipod touch, but my band rehearses twice a week elsewhere so I get to play still.
An old retiree can be difficult to deal with. They can be stubborn if they don't get their way and they unfortunately have a lot of time on their hands.
That said people tend to be more reasonable face to face, so go talk to him. Maybe talk to him and his wife together. A pocket recorder wouldn't hurt just in case things go south on you.
I'm sure they can hear kids outside or cars driving by... Are thy going to stop that too?
If the guy is hellbent on being a douchebag... I would start messing with him. a bully will bully as long as you let him, but there are more reasonable approaches if that's your thing
Quote from: aballen on February 20, 2013, 11:42:56 PM
An old retiree can be difficult to deal with. They can be stubborn if they don't get their way and they unfortunately have a lot of time on their hands.
That said people tend to be more reasonable face to face, so go talk to him. Maybe talk to him and his wife together. A pocket recorder wouldn't hurt just in case things go south on you.
I'm sure they can hear kids outside or cars driving by... Are thy going to stop that too?
If the guy is hellbent on being a douchebag... I would start messing with him. a bully will bully as long as you let him, but there are more reasonable approaches if that's your thing
This!
Or, This... I'm terrible.
(http://www.planetoftheamps.com/green-orange-platoon.jpg)
Quote from: BraindeadAudio on February 23, 2013, 05:05:13 AM
Or, This... I'm terrible.
(http://www.planetoftheamps.com/green-orange-platoon.jpg)
Um a Bigsby on a flying V... That is awesome. How is that possible?
Look at the bottom of the body, theres a custom brace between the points allowing it to work. I ve never seen one in person but if I recall correctly, there are a few out there that have them. This guys collection of gear is nuts.