So I have an idea for a mod I want to do to a circuit to make it my own, but I have absolutely no idea how to make it happen. Would anyone be willing to help me out (I'm totally new to modifying circuits, so I'd need it all to be explained in the simplest way possible haha)?
If anyone would like to offer help, please PM me and I'll give you more of the details. THANKS!!
I'll be happy to help. What do you have in mind? Is there a pressing need to make it private? Posting here will get you more ideas. Cause we've all got them. :)
Not really lol. What I'm wanting to do is take a Bluesbreaker circuit and change the tone control to a treb/bass control and add a mid contour switch, something like the Paisley Drive has. How difficult would that be?
I'm just trying to think of some kind of circuit I can make to call my own and have boards made lol
And maybe a clipping switch.
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 25, 2012, 07:39:15 PM
Not really lol. What I'm wanting to do is take a Bluesbreaker circuit and change the tone control to a treb/bass control and add a mid contour switch, something like the Paisley Drive has. How difficult would that be?
I'm just trying to think of some kind of circuit I can make to call my own and have boards made lol
You want both treble and bass controls, or you want a single control that controls the bass and treble simultaneously?
2 controls. One for treble and one for bass. And the mid switch would be something like a 3 way toggle with mid boost, normal, and mid cut or something like that lol. I dunno, I'm just tossing around ideas for now.
Can you post the schematic you'll be working from so we can all refer to the same parts numbers?
The best one I found was this one: http://www.tonegeek.com/musicgear/pedals/marshall-bluesbreaker-mods.php/attachment/2-2
It's from a page where the explain how to do the King of Tone mods lol
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 25, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
The best one I found was this one: http://www.tonegeek.com/musicgear/pedals/marshall-bluesbreaker-mods.php/attachment/2-2
It's from a page where the explain how to do the King of Tone mods lol
Well, some of those mods are ones you want, like the diode switch.
Yeah I saw that. I'm mostly trying to figure out the treb/bass and mid switch thing.
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 25, 2012, 08:08:43 PM
Yeah I saw that. I'm mostly trying to figure out the treb/bass and mid switch thing.
Well, the tone knob already is a treble control.
For the bass control, take a look at how it's done in the Timmy and see if you can find the equivalent part of the Bluesbreaker.
A mids contour control is going to be harder to implement. These are the simple ones.
Also, you might want to check out Culturejam's Game of Tones. It has some of the mods you're describing already.
How would I go about replacing the current tone control and adding something like this? http://www.muzique.com/lab/atone.htm
Or if the mid switch is too complicated, what about Treb/Mid/Bass controls?
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 25, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Or if the mid switch is too complicated, what about Treb/Mid/Bass controls?
Then you're just looking at different Marshall effects, other than the Bluesbreaker.
I think what you're trying to do is mod a circuit so far, that you're not aware that there are other circuits that would give you the same sort of effect already.
The Bluesbreaker is just a derivative of the Dual Op Amp overdrive. Yes, it uses a peculiar set of diodes for creating clipping, and the tone section is certainly it's own, but you may find the sort of circuit you're looking for in other places, and then find it easier to modify that circuit to more resemble the Bluesbreaker.
I think what I would suggest is that you spend some time understanding how dual op amps, tone stacks, and clipping diodes work. It's ok to not know how things work and build them, but in this case it really sounds like you need to learn how these things work in order to design the thing you're looking for.
Jacob
Unfortunately, Jacob's somewhat right in this case, though I wouldn't discourage someone from experimenting ever. What you are looking to do goes way beyond just modifying a bluesbreaker circuitboard and I'm afraid that just implementing all the mods will lead to disappointment.
Do you have a breadboard? Your best way to tackle this is to build the bluesbreaker from the schematic on a breadboard. Get the basic circuit working FIRST. Learn its consituent components. Performing all the mods you're looking at may change the function of the circuit so much that you'll end up needing to change other things -- for instance you need to be aware that tone stacks can eat up a LOT of output.
So, again, build the basic circuit on a breadboard, and then one at a time implement mods that might change the tone stack. Going through systematically will also help you understand the circuit, and limit the time you have to spend on forums asking for step-by-step implementation of any given mod.
Plus, the breadboard is your friend and you need to get to learn it and love it. :)
Agree with midway. Start breadboarding asap.
Start with the super-simple electra distortion circuit and experiment with adding different types of tone stacks, multi-clipping options, treble-cut switches, input/output caps, on and on...
I started breadboarding only 6 months ago with this method and learned A TON from from that sweet little circuit. Although I am still quite novice, I can BB some moderate-complexity circuits and tweak em for fun ;D
Good luck
I'm sorry if I were a wet blanket, I didn't mean to be. But in many cases, what we've seen in the past is people asking for help designing a circuit or modding a circuit that they don't yet understand. What I'd rather see is people asking for help understanding a circuit so they can learn to modify it and get satisfying results themselves - and there's no substitute to learning on the job. Teach a man to fish and all that.
What I'd do is look up the schematics for the Bluesbreaker and the Marshall Drivemaster. If you compare the circuits, you'll see a lot of similarities, but some differences. Learn how to breadboard each, learn how they both work, and then come up with your own combination circuit. Modify that, and you'll be well on the way to what you're asking about.
Jacob
Isn' t the Glitterati http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Glitterrattii/docs/Glitterrattii.pdf (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Glitterrattii/docs/Glitterrattii.pdf)
already pretty close to what the OP is asking for. The schem seems pretty close to Bluesbreaker and I always heard the "BB" was a bluesbreaker hint.
And my first thought about the mids switch was the AMZ presence control would be a much easier beginner fix than a switch. like in the old (4 button) mudbunny project.
http://www.muzique.com/lab/tone3.htm (http://www.muzique.com/lab/tone3.htm)
I agree; get the breadboard out and have some fun (start with an electra as pryde recommended).
The idea is the easy part.... the hard part is the exectuion, and the only way to achieve it is to build it up yourself and learn the circuit.
Good luck dude!
Sorry I haven't responded too quickly, but I really do appreciate all the tips. I DO have a breadboard and I'll probably try to tackle a bluesbreaker some time soon.
The main reason for this topic in the first place is because I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here" project like most PCB's. Also, the reason I chose a BB is because it's one of the flavors of drive I don't own. I have plenty TS variants, so I don't want to mod that.
The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things (related to pedals/schematics, that is lol). I can read schematics, but I can't tell you what each part does, where the tone stack begins/ends, etc. Like with that treb/bass control link I posted, I wouldn't know where to insert that into an existing schematic. I see that it has an in and out on it, but the thing that confuses me is that an existing circuit already has an in and out, so where would I insert the tone mod?
Anyway, I know this is a lot of jibber jabber (I'm just typing as things come to mind lol), but those are most of the issues I have with modifying circuits. I know I'm trying to start out a bit on the difficult side, but I learn quickly, I assure you!
Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:02:17 PMthe thing that confuses me is that an existing circuit already has an in and out, so where would I insert the tone mod?
You can attach the "in" of that tone circuit anywhere in the audio path that could otherwise be an output. How do you know what works? When you've got the circuit on the breadboard, take the output wire and start sticking it places. Look at other circuits and see where they place their tone circuits. You'll start to see patterns in where they are placed. Hint: look at the datasheet for a dual op amp and see how the pins are labeled.
If you want to learn how the basic snippets of any given circuit works, circle it and ask questions about it. Read all of RG Keen's Geofx site. Read the learning threads on Beavis Audio. Those are two resources I refer to constantly, even if I'm already familiar with a circuit. There's also a thread somewhere on here of "reading material for book learning" or some such. And, I can't stress this enough, datasheets are a big help.
p.s. Note that I've demured from telling you how to just do the mod for the same reasons everyone described above. Once you've expressed a desire to create something or modify it substantially, there is no substitute for hands-on experience, research, study, and a trusty online calculator that fixes an inability to work with numbers (er, well, I need the last one, but others might not). It takes time and it's not as easy as the paint-by-numbers of following someone else's schematic or building on a PCB, but it's HUGELY rewarding.
And then comes that certain point where something clicks and you'll almost go nuts from having so many ideas for mods and variations and new circuits you can't build them all fast enough. :)
Quote from: midwayfair on October 26, 2012, 03:21:22 PM
p.s. Note that I've demured from telling you how to just do the mod for the same reasons everyone described above. Once you've expressed a desire to create something or modify it substantially, there is no substitute for hands-on experience, research, study, and a trusty online calculator that fixes an inability to work with numbers (er, well, I need the last one, but others might not).
No, I totally understand this. I appreciate it, actually.
But as far as me not understanding schematics, what I don't understand is how to find out which part of the schematic does what. Like on this image:
(http://i.imgur.com/7AvlO.jpg)
Is the red part the tone stack or the blue (I know the top part of the schematic is attached to the VR's)? Or is it something else entirely? These are the kinds of things I don't understand about schematics lol
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:32:53 PMIs the red part the tone stack or the blue (I know the top part of the schematic is attached to the VR's)? Or is it something else entirely? These are the kinds of things I don't understand about schematics lol
It's a series resistor, right?
Do you understand the blue part -- not necessarily EXACTLY what it's doing? Try to work out what each component there might be doing. Type it out.
Then we'll come back to the red part.
Mods, if any of you read this, can we move it to the "How Do I?" subforum? It seems more appropriate there.
Quote from: midwayfair on October 26, 2012, 03:36:08 PM
Mods, if any of you read this, can we move it to the "How Do I?" subforum? It seems more appropriate there.
Yes please, I apologize for the placement of the topic.
As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters and the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?
I might be totally wrong though haha
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:02:17 PM
... I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here"
[...]
The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things
[...]
Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!
And my hint would be: I agree with the posts above.
I wont, by no means, take you down, but your quote above: "I want..." vs "I just barely..." makes a bit of an equation with no solution today. You have to learn how those parts really work; what this resistor do and what that cap does... to be able to design something that you really can call "your own".
After all; If some of the gurus here (there are many helpful dudes for sure!) tell you exactly how to implement a tonestack with given values in your OD circuit... then its not your own design either, is it? It would be just another "put these parts here"-thing ;)
So... get that breadboard out as said...
another hint is to do some digital simulation. Try some Spice software (i myself run Tina-TI, others run LTspice or 5Spice)
Also: download the ToneStack calculator: http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/ , and play with it. Change values, breadboard the result!
Also: Read here: http://ampbooks.com/home/amp-technology/james-tonestack-analysis/, great site with deep facts.
I myself know quite a bit about electronics and physics in general. Even so, i find myself with 10 new questions a day. Some of them can be answerred through some google- n madbean-browsing... some of them i ask here. It's a fun world with an endless amount of questions and facts:)
Now i hope i dont sound too "boring". As said, i have no intention to take you down. But sometimes there really arent simple short cuts:)
Good luck! And dont forget to have fun:)
Quote from: Vallhagen on October 26, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:02:17 PM
... I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here"
[...]
The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things
[...]
Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!
And my hint would be: I agree with the posts above.
I wont, by no means, take you down, but your quote above: "I want..." vs "I just barely..." makes a bit of an equation with no solution today. You have to learn how those parts really work; what this resistor do and what that cap does... to be able to design something that you really can call "your own".
After all; If some of the gurus here (there are many helpful dudes for sure!) tell you exactly how to implement a tonestack with given values in your OD circuit... then its not your own design either, is it? It would be just another "put these parts here"-thing ;)
So... get that breadboard out as said...
another hint is to do some digital simulation. Try some Spice software (i myself run Tina-TI, others run LTspice or 5Spice)
Also: download the ToneStack calculator: http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/ , and play with it. Change values, breadboard the result!
Also: Read here: http://ampbooks.com/home/amp-technology/james-tonestack-analysis/, great site with deep facts.
I myself know quite a bit about electronics and physics in general. Even so, i find myself with 10 new questions a day. Some of them can be answerred through some google- n madbean-browsing... some of them i ask here. It's a fun world with an endless amount of questions and facts:)
Now i hope i dont sound too "boring". As said, i have no intention to take you down. But sometimes there really arent simple short cuts:)
Good luck! And dont forget to have fun:)
I just want to learn so that I CAN do it...
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters
Good. Do you understand what KIND of filter that is? As in, a cap to ground = what kind of tonal change? How does changing the cap value change the tone? What happens if you add a resistor to the mix?
These are questions that you could answer with reading, and you might know some of the answers already, but you also need to HEAR what they do, so, when you breadboard the circuit, answer them through experimentation.
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PMand the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?
Good again.
Now: What's the pot doing?
Quote from: midwayfair on October 26, 2012, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters
Good. Do you understand what KIND of filter that is?
Some sort of high/low pass filter probably?
Quote
These are questions that you could answer with reading, and you might know some of the answers already, but you also need to HEAR what they do, so, when you breadboard the circuit, answer them through experimentation.
Yeah, I'm not home at the moment but I'll definitely do some breadboarding when I get the chance.
Quote
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:42:51 PMand the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?
Good again.
Now: What's the pot doing?
I have no idea lol. Just a guess: controlling the amount of input signal that goes through the caps and the VR section?
Quote from: thetrend77 on October 26, 2012, 03:32:53 PM
But as far as me not understanding schematics, what I don't understand is how to find out which part of the schematic does what. Like on this image:
(http://i.imgur.com/7AvlO.jpg)
I'd say R5-C8 are a simple filter (low pass), while R3+Tone-C5 are a tune-able lowpass filter before it.
I have been known to be 'orribly wrong before though.