NEVERMIND! GOOD NEWS!
International service on packages has changed, and so have prices. After investigating, I've found the difference between package and envelope prices are now HUGE, whereas they were pretty near the same last year for the type and contents I ship.
I have identified that pretty much ALL MBP packages will be able to ship without using the new, more expensive postage prices. In fact, I am LOWERING the prices for now. The key here is thickness for all you shippers. If it is under 3/4" you are good to go.
These are the rates for now:
Int'l:1 or 2 PCBs: $3.00
3 to 5 PCBs: $3.50
6 to 10 PCBs: $4.25
11 or more: $5.00
Jesus christ! That is a lot of money for a small package, I know it's not your fault but why on earth did they suddenly hike it quite so much.
I sent an entire pedal to the U.S. for the cost of 11 PCB shipping the other day.
Ah well, just have to mean larger less regular orders... still...
oh damn! I have a few intnl packages to ship today myself, this bites. >:(
That increase is ridiculous! I guess now I'll be sending international mail less. :(
About a month ago, I went to mail something to Canada as I often do. The postal worker got annoyed and had to enter all the information on the customs form manually, and he said it was a new policy. Thing is, I don't think they'll make more money this way.
:( It's one of those things. Nowt we can do about it.
It explains why the postage on the Chilicon board I got from Barry was so expensive a couple of days ago. It was more than the board! It meant that I got some of his wire to try (as adding 30ft of that on didn't change it much), but it certainly means that ordering odd boards is off the table these days :(
Also a bugger as I want an odd couple from Keefe at the min again... I'll have to get a bigger order together.
Wait, I might be wrong.
My software seems to be calculating things differently. Let me investigate.
The rates are correct, but the calculation between envelope and package is quite different now.
USPS.com is quoting me $1.55 for a 3-ounce "letter with a rigid object" to Canada. If you ship with them taped to a piece of paper, you can fit 2-3 boards in a single letter-sized envelope without going over 1/4" and they are marked as non-machinable.
Package rate says $6.16 online price.
Okay, I changed the first post. I've determined that prices WILL NOT have to be raised. In fact, since the difference between package and envelope is so different now (1st Class Package is now a different service for USPS it seems) I will be able to maintain (even lower) prices slightly.
Sorry, I freaking panicked!
Yeah, I'm feeling confident about this now. I read some more on Flats vs. package requirements. Any of you guys shipping PCBs should be able to qualify for Flats service so long as you are talking just a few at a time.
The difference is in flexibility. Flats have to have 1" flexibility at the edges of envelopes without damaging the contents. I just tested some shipments out and it seems to be no problem..If you want to read more, check section 2.3a and b here: http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/101.htm#1040242
I think using an even larger envelope is a good idea.
I guess I'll find out pretty soon if my theory is true or not. I hope this stuff goes through okay!
Quote from: whitebread47 on January 28, 2013, 04:18:31 PM
That increase is ridiculous! I guess now I'll be sending international mail less. :(
About a month ago, I went to mail something to Canada as I often do. The postal worker got annoyed and had to enter all the information on the customs form manually, and he said it was a new policy. Thing is, I don't think they'll make more money this way.
You can fill out the customs form online on USPS, print it, tape it on the envelope, and still pay at the post office if necessary. For about 6 months USPS have had to manually enter the data if you use one of the old carbon copy forms. They hate it. I've made many friends by completing the required documentation online :) but I also use Endicia, it saves me headaches too.
Josh
Quote from: gtr2 on January 28, 2013, 05:21:27 PM
You can fill out the customs form online on USPS, print it, tape it on the envelope, and still pay at the post office if necessary. For about 6 months USPS have had to manually enter the data if you use one of the old carbon copy forms. They hate it. I've made many friends by completing the required documentation online :) but I also use Endicia, it saves me headaches too.
Josh
I didn't know that, thanks for the info!
*wipes brow*
Well, so far as I can tell my envelopes pass the rigidity test. But, I'm pretty much going to be at the mercy of whatever Post Office worker does the sorting into the machines. I'll have the final answer within the next 2-3days, I think, once these hit the Miami facility. In the meantime, I'll just ship as normal until I know different.
I really hope this works out since doubling the postage rates is going to suck for international peeps.
I've been shipping the envelope flat internationally for about a year without issue. Well...except one that went missing on it's way to Russia. But ironically I've had more package rate stuff (with confirmation) held up in the US. They seem to go missing much more often only to turn up months later at the customers house...
Josh
Quote from: madbean on January 28, 2013, 06:47:32 PM
Well, so far as I can tell my envelopes pass the rigidity test. But, I'm pretty much going to be at the mercy of whatever Post Office worker does the sorting into the machines.
Yes, it's very subjective. One of the guys at my local PO told me their classification term is "non-machinable" for things with rigid contents. The envelope needs to be able to bend to a certain degree to make it through the auto-sorting machine. If it can't, it has to be manually sorted, and that costs more.
For domestic delivery, for example, a standard letter of 1oz or less is 47 cents, and a non-machinable letter of the same size and weight would take the "oversized" rate, which is currently 66 cents.
That's crazy prices! About 5 weeks ago I ordered 3 circuit boards from the US to the UK (still waiting for them though) and played $17 postage!
Wasn't from madbean though.
Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!
Shipping from Madbean or JMK or 1776 ist still really low compared to what some online dealers take for shipping pedals.
So thumbs up!
Good point! (heads over to 1776 to order some more stuff).
I'll second that thumbs up for good postage rates. Went to purchase 2 boards from another site yesterday, due to a sale they were having, thought i'd give them a go, $24 postage to Australia, $6 more than the boards cost, needless to say, i gave them a miss.I wonder how many other overseas customers will do the same, and just not bother. So, thanks again gents, for quality product, service and prices that are much appreciated, all the best, Matt.
Man, I am having a lot of trouble with international shipping. There seems to be no consistency between postal workers.
The packaging I'm using is a padded envelope about 6" by 8". As packed, it's much less than 3/4" but more than 1/4". Some of them put it through as "large envelope" which is roughly $4 to ship and others insist that it is a "package" because it is padded. Package rates for the same item are about $10.
I think I need a different packaging scheme, but I'm not sure what will be consistent with the postal peeps.
What are you guys using that is consistent?
The new shipping rules are rediculuos. I went to the PO and they said my envelope was padded, so that automatically makes it a package rate. So I took everything home and repackaged in a flat envelope. Now they say its a package because there is mechandise inside. Even though it is a 9x12 envelope that is clearly less than 1/4" thick. I just can't win with these people.
You may need to print up the info on the USPS website cause they do not say a padded envelope automatically makes it is a package. In that case, use a cardboard mailer like a CD thing maybe.
I've been shipping out boards taped to a folded up piece of paper in a standard envelope. I send it as an envelope of uneven thickness, which is accurate (the example on the post office machine used a letter with coins or pens as an example).
It's a little tricker with International as they want to charge package rates, but so far I've been successful in getting them to put it through as a "letter with uneven thickness."
If I start seeing breakage due to the processing machines, I'll switch over, but so far so good and I can charge a lot less for shipping.
Quote from: madbean on February 05, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
You may need to print up the info on the USPS website cause they do not say a padded envelope automatically makes it is a package. In that case, use a cardboard mailer like a CD thing maybe.
I actually did print the specs and bring it in. They didn't care. They insist that because there is merchandise inside (can't hide that for international) it makes it a "package" and they refuse to budge. It's not worth agonizing over the domestic shipments because the difference is only $0.70. International is just a huge jump for package rates.
Once in a while I get lucky and catch a counter person who puts it through as large envelope, which I think is correct, but those are more rare now.
I even argued with a supervisor without success. I just can't win with any of them, no matter how many times you point to their own website and ask them to explain.
I don't think the CD mailer would work. Today I taped the boards to the inside of a manila file folder. The boards were in the outer portions of the 4 quadrants so that the envelope would pass the flex test without issue. I put the shipping papers in the folder, then shoved the whole thing in a 9"x12" envelope. No dice. Package. The CD mailer could work to save a little on domestic, but once they read the international paperwork, they would call it a package.
I'm thinking there has to be SOME kind of USPS option out there. Do a search for "China post ePacket" The rates are hugely discounted. But we can't have those rates. Nice, huh?
Different post office an option?
Jacob
Tape them inside a greeting/birthday card, won't make a noticeable difference in thickness as they're only marginally thicker than gift cards. Might do the trick.
Yup, I can see this causing problems. If the way GPCB has done it is the future of this, it's going to make international orders non-existant. He had an offer on the other day which I would have totally taken advantage of, had it not been utterly ruined by the postal rates. When the postage is more than the boards, it's a definite issue.
On the upside, I've ordered a load of boards recently while the rates have been sensible, so I've at least got a few months before it's really going to cause me issues.
European Distributor ? GPCB used to it AFAIK
Another idea. We could do a bulk order for the UK and forward it on from here. Import duty might smart though, and we'd still have to cover forwarding costs (2nd class post + a Jiffy). Keep it monthly and it wouldn't be too much of a ballache. As long as the costs were covered I'd have no issues doing this. Duty would likely be the kicker though.
Quote from: jkokura on February 06, 2013, 05:29:34 AM
Different post office an option?
Jacob
Tried 3 different PO's. All just as variable.
Pre fill out all customs forms online. They hate having to type the manual forms that they give you at the post office. It's a quick way to make enemies.
I also suggest making friends with your local post office. Go out of your way to be EXTRA courteous. They do not take nicely to arguing or ANY hint of aggression. Once they recognize your face a few times and see you as a regular, they are much more willing to relax a bit.
If all else fails prepay as a large envelope, print, tape, and throw it in a post office box. It's more work for them to send it back to you then ship to the listed destination, especially if you've already done the customs work!
I've send well over a hundred packages using the large flat envelope rate with only one package never reaching it's destination.
Josh
Heh, the local courier has gotten SO used to delivering parts to me, if no one's home he drops it off to my Dad's workplace (apparently he knows me by name now!)
Nice
Quote from: gtr2 on February 08, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
I also suggest making friends with your local post office. Go out of your way to be EXTRA courteous. They do not take nicely to arguing or ANY hint of aggression. Once they recognize your face a few times and see you as a regular, they are much more willing to relax a bit.
This in spades. Learn their names, be kind and polite, and smile. Goes a long, long way.
Jacob
Yes, smiling. As cheesy as it sounds while typing, it works! It's better for your health to ;D