I was on the Pedal Parts Plus website today and noticed that they no longer have a $100 charge for screen printing. I talked to them and they apparently got a new machine that does not require them to create a silk screen. They say the quality is better too. I love DIY, but I will definitley give this a try. It's $10 for one enclosure and the price drops significantly for anything over that (I think second one is under $6) Oh and they can now do any image! Full color, etc. Just thought I'd share with my peeps. If anyone has tried this yet I'd love to hear about the results. ;D
Jon
YES! That Is Awesome!
Cool. They must have gotten one of those UV printers. Good news!
That is some awesome news! Thanks for the heads up.
I saw it too! Very excited to say the least.
Awesome. I appreciate the heads up!
Might have to give it a shot. Im still working on my screenprinting rig at home off and on during spear time.. which is not very often.
I just shot them an email for pricing details. I've got some ideas that might be more suited to screen printing than laser etching.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 01, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
I just shot them an email for pricing details. I've got some ideas that might be more suited to screen printing than laser etching.
Is your laser etching stuff done by an online company or something locally?
Quote from: selfdestroyer on April 01, 2013, 09:51:56 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on April 01, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
I just shot them an email for pricing details. I've got some ideas that might be more suited to screen printing than laser etching.
Is your laser etching stuff done by an online company or something locally?
It's done locally.
I usually do it myself when I can get access to the machine. I am in the process of getting some done at a local shop. The pricing is reasonable, but there is a $30 setup fee, so I wouldn't want to do it for a one-off.
Sweet!
a month after I paid for my first screen!
Still no response to my email. They've been slow to respond lately. They must be overwhelmed.
They responded to my first, but my second had many clarifying questions.
They're still unsure how things will work.
Jacob
Quote from: pickdropper on April 05, 2013, 12:53:22 AM
Still no response to my email. They've been slow to respond lately. They must be overwhelmed.
Unfortunately, they get really busy from time to time. That's why I'm quicker to order in-stock painted enclosures than buying them to-order, though their powdercoating is second to none; the blems are typically invisible to my eyes.
That said, I'd imagine they'd be getting an onslaught of screening orders with such a dramatic price drop.
Hopefully they will still honor old screens and can still print on hammertone...I dropped a chunk of cash to get my stuff set up this way with them...
PPP have a bitof a history to get overwhelmed and taken by surprise. I guess they underestimate the value of their business and theservice they provide.
This actually isnt cheaper if you dropped over 300$ on screens to have it done the old way at 1$ a case. They now have it as a 10$ set up, on top of the 2.30$ charge for 5+ cases when it used to be 1$. Thats a 65% increase with 0 forewarning about this and I got the latest screen burned a month ago. I am sure they planned to get this new machine well before that and didnt tell me, and I order cases at 250+ at a time.
Im not too happy and I have to call them tomorrow about this.
It just seems like the cost for the new machine is being pushed off onto the older customers now :(
Perhaps, but on the other hand, for those of us who would do one offs, or smaller batches, it's pretty much awesomeness incarnate.
Is there a possibility of getting them to do it the old way for the same price?
Jacob
Ya but a 65% increase on my end, equals out to an additional 1000$+ for my next case order. I dont have a spare grand to be tossing around. I am going to ask them to honor the old price, otherwise I guess I have to find another supplier which I really dont have the time to do right now with 6 more models in the line.
Quote from: jkokura on April 12, 2013, 12:16:02 AM
Is there a possibility of getting them to do it the old way for the same price?
Jacob
It looks like they will only do the old way if they already have a screen from a previous order. For new designs (which it sounds like he has) they are going to be using the new machine. Hopefully they will be willing to work with people doing medium sized to large runs and come down on that price.
Well, I got my first couple of enclosures printed with the new service. The good news is that the printing looks very good. Vibrant, well-centered and has a nice, thick texture to it.
Unfortunately, there are serious adhesion problems. The first one had about a 1/3 of the printing pulled off with low-tack painters tape (which I use when drilling holes to prevent the vise from scratching the enclosure). For the second one, I didn't use tape, so it survived the mill, but some of the print rubbed off while I populated it. To make it look better, I removed the rest of the part that rubbed off. I was able to remove it with very light fingernail pressure. On the first box, I was able to remove the remaining 2/3 of the printing with my fingernail. Luckily? it came off cleanly, so I was able to reuse the box.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to rehouse this at some point with a laser etched case. The printing just doesn't stick to the substrate. I hope they can fix their process as I am a big fan of PPP.
Bummer! Thanks for the update Dave. I guess I'll probably hold off until they get it figured out (hopefully they do!). If it can't handle painters tape then it definitely can't handle a foot stomping on it! The reason I etch so much is purely because of durability. I'll never do another waterslide decal and I was really hoping to give this a shot. Have you contacted them about the issue yet? Maybe they can reimburse you or something.
Well, the blue 3M painters tape will rip waterslides with a nice hard clearcoat as well... I had a bad experience this weekend with a 1590DD ::)
I do hope they perfect their process. It's something I would certainly use.
Josh
Quote from: gtr2 on May 01, 2013, 11:36:32 AM
Well, the blue 3M painters tape will rip waterslides with a nice hard clearcoat as well... I had a bad experience this weekend with a 1590DD ::)
I do hope they perfect their process. It's something I would certainly use.
Josh
I did take that into consideration, but really it should withstand that. There are industry standard TABAR (abrasion resistance) tests for printing, and these definitely fall short of that.
The second box didn't have any painters tape on it at all. It was basic finger handling and I was able to easily scrape with light fingernail pressure.
To be fair, I could have just received a couple of bad boxes. There are a multitude of things that can interfere with proper adhesion.
I expect they will get past this hurdle and, at that point, I will happily give them another shot .
i received an enclosure from ppp the other day using their new printing process and i can second the positives noted by pickdropper. i did white on a translucent red sparkle finish and the print just looks awesome. great clean lines, well defined edges....just a really good looking end product.
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked. to ppp's credit they've offered a replacement but i'm just not sure i can ask the guy to wait another month for his pedal (i had them drill it for me as well, which took a while as they were backed up). i haven't tried to test the adhesion on the white ink to see if it exhibited the same issue's as pickdropper's box.
all of that to say it definitely seems like this could be a fantastic service for guys like me that are just doing a couple boxes at a time once a couple kinks get worked out. once my box was drilled the printing process only took a day or two, and at $10 the price is super good.
Quote from: steveperiod on May 01, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked.
Try acetone.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: steveperiod on May 01, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked.
Try acetone.
Jacob
Yep, Acetone should work.
Actually, I am encouraged to hear that you were not able to remove the lettering with your fingernail. That means that it is possible I just got a bad batch (or the finish I ordered isn't compatible).
Yeah, it is good to hear. I read Dave's feedback the day after I placed my own order with PPP...
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:11:02 PM
Yeah, it is good to hear. I read Dave's feedback the day after I placed my own order with PPP...
Jacob
Yeah, I just found out about it yesterday when I started working on the boxes. The whole reason I posted wasn't to give PPP a hard time, but to give a heads up to the folks here so they can check their boxes. I would suggest trying to carefully scratch off some of the text and see if it holds. I certainly would be wary of shipping these to customers without some level of abrasion testing.
The small consolation is that the text was easy to remove in a way that left no trace that it was ever there, so at least the enclosure was still usable.
Small consolation indeed.
I wonder if a clear coating would be necessary to protect the finish though? I'll obviously be testing my batch when they arrive, and if I find issues, i'll be grabbing some sort of poly spray to coat them with. I was hoping to get away from clear coating though.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: steveperiod on May 01, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked.
Try acetone.
Jacob
DON'T try acetone! Fair chance of eating into your powder coat as well (I had it happen before with an orange PPP enclosure).
@Pickdropper: PPP do commercial stuff as well, like Mojo Hand FX pedals...I can't imagine that working out if their printing was so sensitive. Did you contact PPP, Pickdropper?
the new Mojohand Rook Royale doesn't seem to have problems with the printing coming off.
Here is what I found out by calling.
They raised the price to 2.30$ from 1$ a unit for a previous screen, and tacked on a 10$ charge on top of that.
No matter if you order 5 or 250.
This new machine, the lowest cost you can get is 4$ per unit printed.
Edit: Do not take this as me putting down the fact that DIY makers have access to better final products now, this is in fact great for small runs and early prototype runs without having to commit to a single layout.
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:51:26 PM
Small consolation indeed.
I wonder if a clear coating would be necessary to protect the finish though? I'll obviously be testing my batch when they arrive, and if I find issues, i'll be grabbing some sort of poly spray to coat them with. I was hoping to get away from clear coating though.
Jacob
You'd have to try it, but I expect that clearcoating would fix the issue (if you even have the issue).
Quote from: Rockhorst on May 01, 2013, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: steveperiod on May 01, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked.
Try acetone.
Jacob
DON'T try acetone! Fair chance of eating into your powder coat as well (I had it happen before with an orange PPP enclosure).
@Pickdropper: PPP do commercial stuff as well, like Mojo Hand FX pedals...I can't imagine that working out if their printing was so sensitive. Did you contact them, Pickdropper?
Just to be totally clear on this:
I think that PPP does great work and, as a company, stands for a high quality product. I have done business with them in the past and will continue to do business with them in the future. I have indeed contacted them with my findings. I expect they will be helpful, as they always have been in the past.
I am aware that they have been doing silk screening for a while using a traditional method and that they do it for a number of pedal companies and that the quality is without question. Obviously, they have a new process and there may still be some inconsistency that needs to be worked out. This is common with any new process and I don't view it as reflecting poorly on PPP. Just that there are issues that need to be addressed. We've all been there.
The only reason I posted it is so that others, like Jacob, who have ordered these, can check the quality before sending it on through to a customer or spending a bunch of time building a pedal only to have problems at the end.
Written tone can come across wrong in forum posts like this one. I am definitely not slamming PPP. I hope nobody is put off from dealing with PPP; I certainly am not. Hopefully, this is isolated to my enclosures. I do think it is probably smart for everybody to check while the bugs are worked out. I actually think it is smart to check even after the bugs are worked out no matter what vendor the boxes come from. IQC is standard for most companies, and generally a good idea.
Yes but I am greatly worried about this new machine being able to print on hammertone/vein cases as well as the old way.
Setbacks, gotta love them.
Quote from: BraindeadAudio on May 01, 2013, 05:42:53 PM
Yes but I am greatly worried about this new machine being able to print on hammertone/vein cases as well as the old way.
Setbacks, gotta love them.
One of the pluses is that this machine does a lot more than the old screenprinting process was capable. Yes, it used to be $1 an enclosure, but that was likely for one colour, using a method that is readily available many places. There are at least two places in my town where I can get enclosures screened. That's not to say that it's not a bummer, but think of the advantages. As many colours as you want? That's unheard of. No setup fee for printed enclosures? That's unheard of.
For $4 an enclosure, you can get as many colours as you want, with no setup fee. If you still want a single colour, maybe it's time to find a local option that will do it for $1 a box after your setup fee. PPP is still the premier place to get enclosures powder coated. I know this is different than you're used to though, so I appreciate that it's a bit of a bummer in terms of your regular business practices.
Truth is, lots of the costs have come down. 3PDTs are better and less costly than ever before. Even jacks, pots, and the boxes themselves are lower cost. Even at the new rate of 2.30 per enclosure instead of 1.00, in the end, the additional price of 1.30 over your original price is something you can add to the costs of your customers, or find ways to shave off the other components.
Please don't take this as a 'stop whining' sort of comment, because I do appreciate your situation. Instead, take this as a, 'look at the bright side' sort of comment.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: BraindeadAudio on May 01, 2013, 05:42:53 PM
Yes but I am greatly worried about this new machine being able to print on hammertone/vein cases as well as the old way.
Setbacks, gotta love them.
One of the pluses is that this machine does a lot more than the old screenprinting process was capable. Yes, it used to be $1 an enclosure, but that was likely for one colour, using a method that is readily available many places. There are at least two places in my town where I can get enclosures screened. That's not to say that it's not a bummer, but think of the advantages. As many colours as you want? That's unheard of. No setup fee for printed enclosures? That's unheard of.
For $4 an enclosure, you can get as many colours as you want, with no setup fee. If you still want a single colour, maybe it's time to find a local option that will do it for $1 a box after your setup fee. PPP is still the premier place to get enclosures powder coated. I know this is different than you're used to though, so I appreciate that it's a bit of a bummer in terms of your regular business practices.
Truth is, lots of the costs have come down. 3PDTs are better and less costly than ever before. Even jacks, pots, and the boxes themselves are lower cost. Even at the new rate of 2.30 per enclosure instead of 1.00, in the end, the additional price of 1.30 over your original price is something you can add to the costs of your customers, or find ways to shave off the other components.
Please don't take this as a 'stop whining' sort of comment, because I do appreciate your situation. Instead, take this as a, 'look at the bright side' sort of comment.
Jacob
I dont like to cut corners, nor pass off costs to customers, it isnt an honest way of doing things.
I personally, am not a fan of the multi color artwork on pedals, I like the stark, clean studio gear asthetic, but I guess you gotta bite the bullet until I can get everything done in house.
@pickdropper: nothing wrong with your written tone IMO. PPP is a pretty stand up company as far as customer service goes, from what I know. Made a drilling error once and sent me a new box for free...overseas. So no problemo there.
@braindeadaudio: I can see how this upsets you...hope you can work something out somehow.
OK, got an update from PPP. They have confirmed that this is an issue with the satin black enclosures (they were able to reproduce the problem). They are going to work with the paint vendor to fix this. It seems very likely that they will be able to work out the bugs.
It is, apparently, not a problem with any of the other color enclosures. Connie said that she scratched with her fingernail as hard as she could when first testing the machine and was not able to rub it off.
So this is very good news.
Ah dang. I ordered a set of boxes for the Hamlet+ in Satin Black. :/ Hopefully they'll catch the issue. I sent an email off saying that if this is still a problem, maybe I should change the enclosure's powdercoat colour.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 09:25:58 PM
Ah dang. I ordered a set of boxes for the Hamlet+ in Satin Black. :/ Hopefully they'll catch the issue. I sent an email off saying that if this is still a problem, maybe I should change the enclosure's powdercoat colour.
Jacob
If they haven't shipped them already, I can't imagine they would run that job until they've fixed the issue. I believe they are quite concerned with quality.
Edited until I figure out what we will work out for this mistake.
i was just able to check the enclosure i received and can confirm that the ink did not come off at all with my fingernail, no matter how hard i worked it. might not be much of a bright spot based on what braindeadaudio is saying.
I had it printed on the transluscent black vein case and it comes right off
pictures? I just had traditional screening done by them, and was thinking of sending some unprinted boxes back for machine-printing.
Quote from: Rockhorst on May 01, 2013, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: steveperiod on May 01, 2013, 02:48:40 PM
the only real negative is my box came back with some extra printing on the top corners. it looked like two registration marks or something, printed in black. i've tried to get these off with my fingernail and with painter's tape but neither one worked.
Try acetone.
Jacob
DON'T try acetone! Fair chance of eating into your powder coat as well (I had it happen before with an orange PPP enclosure).
@Pickdropper: PPP do commercial stuff as well, like Mojo Hand FX pedals...I can't imagine that working out if their printing was so sensitive. Did you contact PPP, Pickdropper?
+10000 Try Naptha instead. Acetone is great for bare metal enclosures BEFORE powdercoating, removing toner from etched PCB's and also for cleaning freshly steel woole(d) PCBs for etching.
Acetone WILL melt powdercoat just enough so it is soft and catches all types of fibers, threads from the rag you are using it with. Naptha is much better for this and is safe even on the finest of guitar finishes.
I recently used Naptha on a really dirty guitar neck and it worked wonderfully.
Pictures are pending what they decide to do for me to fix this problem, Ive now had units returned with printing issues.
I am trying to be fair here.
:-\
Edited due to resolved problem.
I hope it gets resolved.
I resolved my issue with my work, it was a misunderstanding. They do great work when its right, and I am sure this was a unforseen issue. I am completely happy with my other units.
All's well that ends well I guess?
I just noticed PPP changed their screen printing policy *again*. They should've sorted out the details before going public. The minimum order is now 10 enclosures per design, which makes it a lot less attractive for me. A single design in batches of 10 just is too much money for me I'm afraid. Not to mention having to sell them. Back to the drawing board.
can't say i'm surprised about the minimum quantity change. while their previous lack of a minimum was super helpful to a small builder like me it seemed like allowing one-offs isn't something they would be able to do long term. after my less than stellar experience with this process i wasn't sure i'd do it again anyway, so this just seals it for me. ppp did end up sending me a replacement box, but they printed the completely wrong color on the replacement.
I was hoping to do batches of five, black and white ink on red and blue boxes...might just stick to all black vinyl stickers, they are quite durable and €6 per three. Pity though, I was really looking forward to it. Also, with the 10 boxes minimum, it becomes more expensive than the previous system real fast. Seemed an ok compromise when allowing for one offs, but now that's off the table...
Quote from: Rockhorst on May 19, 2013, 04:46:46 PM
I was hoping to do batches of five, black and white ink on red and blue boxes...might just stick to all black vinyl stickers, they are quite durable and €6 per three. Pity though, I was really looking forward to it. Also, with the 10 boxes minimum, it becomes more expensive than the previous system real fast. Seemed an ok compromise when allowing for one offs, but now that's off the table...
Where are you sourcing the all black vinyl stickers?
I get them from this guy (http://www.frame-stickers.nl), but it's a Dutch company making bike decals, so not much use for most people here from outside the Netherlands. Quite durable stuff though!
they priced themselves right out of the game now.
Quote from: Rockhorst on May 19, 2013, 05:26:25 PM
I get them from this guy (http://www.frame-stickers.nl), but it's a Dutch company making bike decals, so not much use for most people here from outside the Netherlands. Quite durable stuff though!
Could you post a sample picture of a pedal you used this on? Looks like a very good option for finishing pedals!
Paul
@DutchMF: for an example of the sticker method, check my entry for the February contest (Spartan Overdrive). The guy usually ships the next day. Best to use a pdf of your picture and mail him the exact measurements. It does limit your choice of box colors to the lighter shades (or bare aluminum, which looks rather good).
Any Dutch people here know a good screen printing or laser engraving place? Anybody thinking of setting up a DIY rig? My house is to small to do it, but I'd love to develop a good alternative for small batches.
Quote from: Rockhorst on May 20, 2013, 10:22:17 AM
Any Dutch people here know a good screen printing or laser engraving place? Anybody thinking of setting up a DIY rig? My house is to small to do it, but I'd love to develop a good alternative for small batches.
As PPP is based in America, and little old me being in the UK, I've never found it economical to order from them, which is a shame as some of their enclosure colours do look amazing!
I've been looking at cheap screen printing, and all the cheap starter kits are supposed to be crap. I've read that getting a cheap photo frame, some netting 90T or higher, light sensitive paint, transparency film, and the screen paint (can use acrylic). Should be able to get everything needed for maybe £/€20-30. Then for additional designs, you just need a little more netting and another cheap photo frame.
Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!
here's an example of their old-style screening. I had my screen made just before they announced the new printer.
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server800/c0f00/products/19202/images/61291/2__51809.1368821531.1280.1280.jpg)
Very pretty, Stevie!