I decided to make a board for this. I based this on the schematic from smallbear. Mine is a little different in that it connects to an 8pin header on the edge, hopefully making a smaller board.
I wasn't sure, but I think that VEE, and VPP are supposed to all be connected to each other. I think these are chip generated voltages. I'm hoping someone can spot check it, and if its good I'm going to order a few. If they work I'll see if there is interest enough to order a larger batch.
smallbear schematic
https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/MN3005/3005_to_2x3008_SCH.pdf
Here is my schematic
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FOM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_zps6c09324c.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FOM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_zps6c09324c.png.html)
here is the layout
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_zps263d4e73.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_zps263d4e73.png.html)
You've got some mistakes in there. For an MN3005, negative ground supply, pin1 goes to 15v and pin 5 (or 8 in your schematic) goes to ground. The 100k resistor should be a pull-up (connect to 15v) not connected to ground. Pin8 on both BBDs (or pin14 in your case) should both be connected to Vgg.
Use this schematic as a reference. It's from the Aquaboy 2012 documentation. It's slightly different than the DMM way which your is based on but both varieties work.
Here A and C would be connected to 15v, and B and D connect to ground for MN3005/MN3008.
Is there an eagle part for the MN3005?
I'm totally confused here, when I look at the schematic up on small bear, pin1 is clearly GND.. how am I misinterpreting this?
QuoteI'm totally confused here, when I look at the schematic up on small bear, pin1 is clearly GND.. how am I misinterpreting this?
Because he's showing you how it is set up for a -15v supply, not a negative ground supply. MN3008/3005 were designed to run at -15v (check any Deluxe Memory Man schematic and you will see what I am talking about). This is pretty inconvenient by modern pedal standards so when we use our regular neg. ground supplies, the ground and power pins are flipped so the chips can run off a positive voltage.
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/87983/PANASONIC/MN3005.html (http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/87983/PANASONIC/MN3005.html)
oh wow. Ok, I'll try to put together another schematic based on your layout tonight.
After looking at the datasheet, I'm curious if a BBD reverb sounds good.
Actually, looking at that schem again on SB- it shows +15v (I did not notice that before). This is confusing to me. His schematic appears to be wrong for +15v operation.
Ok, here is another attempt. This is based on your schematic Brian, mine is cluttered because I could not seem to get eagle to rename the supplies, so to be safe I drew the wires. I also changed the header to properly match the 1-8 pinout on the board it will be plugged in to, to make it clearer. This one look better?
Schematic
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_V2_zps2f109b9d.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_V2_zps2f109b9d.png.html)
layout
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_V2_zpse35414f7.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_V2_zpse35414f7.png.html)
Also, really appreciate your feedback, and the explanations so far.
Looks good! You know, here's what would make it better; move R7 back a bit so it is between C1 and R5. This way, you get the signal limiting (if it's needed) without it throwing off the bias voltage delivered through R5. Other than that you are good to go.
For some more reference about the apparent mistake on the smallbear schem, take a look at both the DOD FX-90 and DM-2 schems for the MN3005. You'll see that the negative ground setup follows just as I described (although these are for 9v, not 15v).
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schematics/audio/pictures/dodfx90.jpg
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=128
thank Brian I just made that change too. I also routed it by hand with fatter traces, and tried for a single sided, but did not quite make it.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_V3_zpsb798d0ee.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_SCHEMATIC_V3_zpsb798d0ee.png.html)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_V3_zps425b675e.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/MN3005_FROM_MN3008_LAYOUT_V3_zps425b675e.png.html)
What do you think? Ready for an OSH park proto?
This is what the board will look like. I wish I could move the 8 and shrink it a little more. You think its ready to order?
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/thumb_i_zpsafc3eb0d.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/thumb_i_zpsafc3eb0d.png.html)
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 16, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
+10^16
Quote from: pickdropper on April 16, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
I was thinking about that too! If it weren't for all of the PCb mounted pots you could mount it on the underside, but that would work with a deeper enclosure...
I did consider that, originally I had an IC1 for that purpose. I think this is more versatile since I might want to put two of these in a DBD or an aqua puss. Depending on where this is being used two of these might not fit if they need to be attached like a daughterboard.
For example, in the DBD and Aquaboy the BBDs are right on top of each other, trying to mount two of these would create overlap... I could modify it to work in this configuration... but then it would not work side by side.
The board mounted pots(which I love) might get in the way, so your stuck with offboard wiring pots or this, or hovering this board 11-12mm above some caps.
I don't know, seems messy no matter how you slice it. I'm thinking the smallest board give you more options for placement.... maybe I'll wait to see what the new DBD layout looks like.
Also bigger board means more $$.
I hear what you are saying about less off board wiring though, I do hate that.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 16, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
what?
Quote from: midwayfair on April 16, 2013, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on April 16, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
+10^16
Quote from: aballen on April 16, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
I did consider that, originally I had an IC1 for that purpose. I think this is more versatile since I might want to put two of these in a DBD or an aqua puss. Depending on where this is being used two of these might not fit if they need to be attached like a daughterboard.
For example, in the DBD and Aquaboy the BBDs are right on top of each other, trying to mount two of these would create overlap... I could modify it to work in this configuration... but then it would not work side by side.
The board mounted pots(which I love) might get in the way, so your stuck with offboard wiring pots or this, or hovering this board 11-12mm above some caps.
I don't know, seems messy no matter how you slice it. I'm thinking the smallest board give you more options for placement.... maybe I'll wait to see what the new DBD layout looks like.
Also bigger board means more $$.
I hear what you are saying about less off board wiring though, I do hate that.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 16, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
Have you thought about the 8 connections going to properly spaced pin headers so that it could be directly soldered to the board (or inserted into a socket below). If you used longer headers, one could use a deeper enclosure and just have this daughter-board hover above the main PCB. It might save some wiring hassle and clean up the interior of the pedal.
I don't really think it needs to be that much bigger as you don't need to allocate space for an entire 16-pin DIP. You just need 8 holes (which you already have) and space them so they could be used to directly interface with the board. You might even be able to slide some components within the hole spacing. The option to wire them off board would still exist.
Ok I see why you are saying. I'll give it a go, see if I can make that work.
Quote from: aballen on April 16, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
I don't know, seems messy no matter how you slice it. I'm thinking the smallest board give you more options for placement.... maybe I'll wait to see what the new DBD layout looks like.
Yeah, especially if you want to squeeze a road rage in as well!
I definitely do! My spider power supply, has 8 300ma jacks at 9v, so I have no problem stepping up the power... 150ma at 18v... not sure what the draw is on a DBD or Aquaboy, but I'm pretty confident I have room there.
Quote from: Stomptown on April 17, 2013, 01:53:17 AM
Quote from: aballen on April 16, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
I don't know, seems messy no matter how you slice it. I'm thinking the smallest board give you more options for placement.... maybe I'll wait to see what the new DBD layout looks like.
Yeah, especially if you want to squeeze a road rage in as well!
Ok I gave it a shot, its pretty tight, I managed to avoid any vias, but it is double sided, no way around it. I routed it all manually, but I think I managed to keep it pretty small. Does this look correct?
Edited, found an un-routed trace, man this is hard!
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/ScreenShot2013-04-18at41136PM_zpsf97cb512.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/ScreenShot2013-04-18at41136PM_zpsf97cb512.png.html)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/ScreenShot2013-04-18at41121PM_zpsd8ec60ba.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/ScreenShot2013-04-18at41121PM_zpsd8ec60ba.png.html)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/large_i_zpsc80c1e4d.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/large_i_zpsc80c1e4d.png.html)
Well I order a set. My first PCB order, hopefully it works!
Quote from: aballen on April 19, 2013, 04:38:06 PM
Well I order a set. My first PCB order, hopefully it works!
If it does are you planning a small run? If so I would love two of them!!!
nice revised layout
Quote from: LaceSensor on April 20, 2013, 05:52:01 AM
nice revised layout
Yeah, the layout looks much better. The only thing I would consider changing (and this is being somewhat picky), is that I would put the pin headers that mount to the main board as close to the center as possible. That way, there won't be as much cantilever force when it is installed. Right now, it is somewhat like a diving board hanging of the mounting pins.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 20, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: LaceSensor on April 20, 2013, 05:52:01 AM
nice revised layout
Yeah, the layout looks much better. The only thing I would consider changing (and this is being somewhat picky), is that I would put the pin headers that mount to the main board as close to the center as possible. That way, there won't be as much cantilever force when it is installed. Right now, it is somewhat like a diving board hanging of the mounting pins.
It looks like the IC of the far right could be moved to the far left pretty easily...
Quote from: Stomptown on April 20, 2013, 05:25:00 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on April 20, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: LaceSensor on April 20, 2013, 05:52:01 AM
nice revised layout
Yeah, the layout looks much better. The only thing I would consider changing (and this is being somewhat picky), is that I would put the pin headers that mount to the main board as close to the center as possible. That way, there won't be as much cantilever force when it is installed. Right now, it is somewhat like a diving board hanging of the mounting pins.
It looks like the IC of the far right could be moved to the far left pretty easily...
That was my thought as well.
I already ordered six. If any one wants a one I can spare a couple.
Maybe I'll take a crack at moving the far right IC over. I'll wait to see if I'm ordering any more before making changes though.
I can definitely do a small run if there is interest. Since I got it so small it's pretty cheap even from osh park. I'll post a few pics when I get them.
That's a nice initiative. I was going use 4 MN3008 in an Aquaboy DX build using 2 vero daughterboards but pcbs would be much better.
If you're successful I'll love to get 2 of those :)
I made a centered version. Have not ordered any yet, but if the first batch works out, then I expect this one will too.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/i_zps7222d89f.png) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/i_zps7222d89f.png.html)
good work, looks like a winner.
Sent from my SC-02B using Tapatalk 2
Wow osh park just got them in, so I guess I'll have them
In a few days. I'll post some pics when I get them.
interested in a few of these - and interested how it works out, as someone else told me that adding a 2nd 3008 caused noise so they ended up removing it whenever they tried it.
got them and the diving board mount works nicely for the aqua boy. Still my next batch will probably be the centered version.
Very pretty
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/6C851EFF_zpsbad3adae.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/6C851EFF_zpsbad3adae.jpg.html)
Here is the aquaboy board
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/D86B0118_zps6f204b02.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/D86B0118_zps6f204b02.jpg.html)
and here is a pair of the doublers sitting on top of the board.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/CF1AA38E_zps40d7c22a.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/bitracer/media/Pedals/MN3005_FROM_MN3008/CF1AA38E_zps40d7c22a.jpg.html)
So here is the deal guys. I only ordered 6 because I wanted to test them before sharing. However, I don't have the right trimmer on hand. I wont need them till the new Dirtbag comes out though, so I'm willing to ship out all three sets, I just wont be able to verify one first. No reason to believe there will be any problems, there has been a lot of scrutiny on this thread, but I want to provide full disclosure.
Dutch, Jimi, and ichilon, you have all already requested a pair. So I'm thinking I can send them out to you guys. After one of you confirms the boards are good, you can send me payment. I'm thinking $8 USD should cover two boards, shipping, and paypal fees.. Dutch and ichilon, since you are not in the US, I'll ask another $2USD for a total of $10USD to cover your shipping. If it turns out the post office is cheaper that that, I'll let you know. This is pretty much my cost. Again, you can all pay me later. If there turns out to be a problem with the board... your not out any $$.
If that is cool with you guys PM me your info... including your email.
That's cool with me, but full disclosure too - I don't have a working build yet.
I've ordered some MN3005's to test if they are genuine and 4x MN3008's plus the other IC's needed to build the Aquaboy, so i'm going to aim to build it up before they arrive as they take weeks to come across the world and hope that at least some of the 6x BBD's i've ordered actually work, at which point I should be able to tell if the 3005's have more delay time and if the doubler board works with the 3008.
Thanks,
Ian
So this is the add on board, I'm building an abdx, how does it all go together?
No worries man, PM me your info.
Quote from: ichilton on May 03, 2013, 02:02:45 PM
That's cool with me, but full disclosure too - I don't have a working build yet.
I've ordered some MN3005's to test if they are genuine and 4x MN3008's plus the other IC's needed to build the Aquaboy, so i'm going to aim to build it up before they arrive as they take weeks to come across the world and hope that at least some of the 6x BBD's i've ordered actually work, at which point I should be able to tell if the 3005's have more delay time and if the doubler board works with the 3008.
Thanks,
Ian
Yes this is it. take a look at the pics a few pots up(or read the whole thread)
The part values are labeled, the two sockets on the right are for the BBDs, you want to socket them.
On the aquaboy you would put headers for the BBDs.
On the left side of these boards you put 8 pins, which you can then simply socket in the headers you put on the board, effectively its board mounted.
You could always just wire it in too.
Quote from: jimilee on May 03, 2013, 03:03:50 PM
So this is the add on board, I'm building an abdx, how does it all go together?
Very nice, btw, it doesn't have to be 100k trimmer to work if you want to test it, it's just a voltage divider, wouldn't go lower than 10k though due to current... 50k would be better.
I'm in, will PM details later!!
Paul
Nice looking boards! I'd be interested in a couple if you get more made.
I don't know if the boards have been sent yet, but I've managed to score me some tested, real, confirmed working MN3005's, so I'd be ok with it if the ones intended for me got sent to chordball (or maybe someone who's higher on the list). It's up to aballen to decide, but I'm fine with it.
Paul
I actually have them in an envelope, but not in the post yet. Chordball PM me your info... same deal as noted above.
That's a very kind offer Paul, but I too have MN3005's as well as some MN3008's. I just wanted to have a couple of these for experimenting with the various delays I have.
If you want them then they're all yours. But I will take them if it comes to it.
Your call man. ;)
Quote from: chordball on May 07, 2013, 09:15:15 PM
That's a very kind offer Paul, but I too have MN3005's as well as some MN3008's. I just wanted to have a couple of these for experimenting with the various delays I have.
If you want them then they're all yours. But I will take them if it comes to it.
Your call man. ;)
In that case they are yours, as I still have to find/buy some MN3008's....... :D
Paul
Sent out this morning to Jimi and Ian. I'll keep the third for testing since no-one seems to need it.
Quote from: aballen on May 08, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Sent out this morning to Jimi and Ian. I'll keep the third for testing since no-one seems to need it.
Works for me. You should enjoy your hard work. If you do another run, I do want in on that one.
I'll let you know. After looking a little closer I think I may stick with the "offset" layout since the "centered" version may cover up the trimmers.
Different boards will have a different layouts of course.
Quote from: aballen on May 08, 2013, 08:45:27 PM
I'll let you know. After looking a little closer I think I may stick with the "offset" layout since the "centered" version may cover up the trimmers.
I agree on that point. And thanks!
Very cool, can't wait. Are there boms for the boards?
Cool, thanks!
I labeled the board with the values needed. It's a self documenting board ;)
The values and the calibration procedure are also in the aquaboy 2012 document.
Quote from: jimilee on May 09, 2013, 03:07:19 AM
Very cool, can't wait. Are there boms for the boards?
hey,
If you do another batch, I'd want in. I'll be starting to work on my aquaboy deluxe pretty soon since I just received the 4 MN3008s from smallbear.
I have one set left, and I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow... PM me your address and I'll try to get in in my outbox tonight.
Hi Aballen,
Registering my interest: if you have any of these boards left, or you are still planning to get some more done, but I'd love to buy a pair from you at some stage if possible?
Thanks
I have one left... Was saving for my dirtbag, but if you need it now I can send this pair to you. PM me
Hey guys,
So a grabbed a couple of these double delay boards from aballen (thanks again!) with the intention of completing the Dirtbag using 4x MN3008 (MN3005 fakes). For reference, the final layout and schematic is on page 2 of this thread. It looks to me as though the component values on the double delay boards have been designed/optimised for the Aquaboy and my question is - are these values suitable to use for the Dirtbag circuit? Looking at the Dirtbag schematic, it looks as though the more appropriate values to use would be those in the smallbear schematic:https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/MN3005/3005_to_2x3008_SCH.pdf (https://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/MN3005/3005_to_2x3008_SCH.pdf) e.g 2k4 resistors and a 100k trimmer etc. Anyone got any hints for me? I've already had some fun desoldering parts of the Dirtbag board and don't plan on having to redo these double delay boards too. :'(
Cheers!
Answering my own question - I soldered up these two double delay boards using the values aballen had conveniently noted on the pcbs themselves. The only modification was that I used 20k trimmers instead of the 22k trimmer specified. I ended up using header pins and mounting these directly to sockets on the main board (saved offboard wiring, but obscures the bias trimmers). If anyone else is considering doing this - be aware that some of the electrolytic caps on the main board will need to be folded flat and check the overall height of your enclosure is enough - mine just fit with 1-2mm to spare.
Aaaannnd Bingo! The Dirtbag works with double delay time. So I guess that means these boards are VERIFIED.
Caveats - I don't know if I'm truly getting double delay time - but it is certainly longer than it was without these boards. I do have the an old big box DMM to compare with, so I'll be sure to do an A/B shortly.
Build report will follow when I get the enclosure tidied up.