I don't know what Wikipedia is on about, but when my Nana cooks rissoles, they're great big meatballs with onions, breadcrumbs, sauce, and all kinds of tasty things, and NO pastry cover.
So, I wanted a Meatball. Musicpcb.com had it listed as arriving in August... November rolled past, and so did the tumbleweeds (as well as viagra ads on his site, oddly.) I decided to have a crack at it.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboardbare_zps76458160.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboardbare_zps76458160.jpg.html)
Mmmm. Tasty OSHpark goodness.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboardcomp_zps656f1d0f.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboardcomp_zps656f1d0f.jpg.html)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboardtop_zps6fed4616.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboardtop_zps6fed4616.jpg.html)
The observant among you may have noticed four pots missing. That is because Smallbear's shipping tends to be either really, really good, or donkey cart. The really observant among you may have noticed the extra pads at the top. As well as the Send and Return FX loop pads that Musicpcb has, mine has the pads for the Decay and Intensity expression pedal jacks. Mine also has the Moog mod built into it as well.
So, as it stands, waiting on Smallbear. I plan on doing a LDR/LED job, rather than the VTL5C3.
I'm sorry....but did I hear Osh Park....as in, there may be MORE of these boards? ;)
If so, please just take my money because I want one.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Well, there was no way in holy hell I was going to perf anything with four rotaries! I want to verify this before I share it (got two spare boards... plus another three ones with bad flaws.)
Hopefully this will fit in a portrait 1790NS. I haven't actually measured it, though.
How bad are the flaws? Like, "add a jumper " bad, or completely useless bad? I sure would like to build one....
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Nice! I've never gotten the attraction to these uber clones of the lovepedal stuff. I know they're hard to get, and expensive, but I would never use them. I get that some people do, so to each they're own.
But quite frankly, every time I see someone DIYing one, I'm always very impressed.
Jacob
Alan, You know i'm waiting for you to work your magic on the ringstinger, right?
;D
nah, just jokes.
but if you did, i've got a schumann PLL board (from DIYSB) with your name on it ;D
whoa! That is a crazy layout. Can't wait to see the final build!!! :o
Jacob, part of why I wanted to build this is like Sir Ed. "Because it's there." :)
Ch1naski, miswired 3P4T, missing 10uF coupling cap. On something this annoying, it's probably not a good idea to work around patches.
3sec, hopefully Lace can hook me up with one of those :) (what, you thought I'd pass up on something insane and complicated? Well, except for the Infinitsound Phaser, that thing is beyond me.)
You know I am interested 8)
Gimme a shout if all is well.... ;)
Awesome layout! I would be down for the revised version when you make them. I also have a vtl5c3 if you need one, let me know.
Hey, Alan, why don't you fab yourself a challenging layout for once?
:P
... I did a simplified LaVache layout, once... (no switches...)
rullywowr -- going led/ldr for two reasons. One, I'm a cheap bugger sometimes, two, I read a report from Lace that it works better than vactrols.
Quote from: alanp on November 04, 2013, 04:06:50 PM
... I did a simplified LaVache layout, once... (no switches...)
rullywowr -- going led/ldr for two reasons. One, I'm a cheap bugger sometimes, two, I read a report from Lace that it works better than vactrols.
I like the way you think. :D
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Quote from: alanp on November 04, 2013, 04:06:50 PM
rullywowr -- going led/ldr for two reasons. One, I'm a cheap bugger sometimes, two, I read a report from Lace that it works better than vactrols.
True that. Meatball sounds best with LDR and green diffuse LED.
Also socket the Dual Op Amp. I found ne5532 sounded awesome.
Dont even bother trying NSL-32 they sound shocking in this circuit
WRT the PLL board, it will go in the post with the "other boards" ;)
just waiting on them to ship to me...
@jokokura, the lovetone stuff does things other pedals just dont do. 8)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboardknobs_zpse964bc3f.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboardknobs_zpse964bc3f.jpg.html)
The donkey cart arrived :D
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboardworking_zps8cae3247.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboardworking_zps8cae3247.jpg.html)
This rissole is cooking! The LM1458's I picked up from Mouser (with the fancy enclosures for the ADA flange and Dirtbag) work very well in the envelope detector.
I still have to go through and label the switches better, though -- I only know what each switch does, not what it's positions are :-[ :-[ :-[
Awesome, awesome! Mystery switches.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
I want to hear it!!! I'm feeling like imma need one
I.know right?
I really want one of these, too
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissole1790nspredrill_zps11e38d99.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissole1790nspredrill_zps11e38d99.jpg.html)
Had a bit of sunlight left (7pm at time of posting), thought I'd show you how I deal with odd size boxes (1790NS), no templates, or incomplete templates.
Firstly, if I have some kind of rough template, I will stick it on with masking tape, after checking that it is correct. (I learnt this with Horace. Horace is not symmetrical horizontally. I was very careful with the Rissole to make sure that it WAS. Embarassingly, I only learnt a week ago that Eagle prints 1:1 scale templates from .BRD files, if you strip out all the electrical stuff.)
Once it's on, and I've had a rough guess with testfitting parts, I start adding MORE masking tape. (Seriously, guys, masking tape is magic. Doesn't leave sticky crap, and you can write on it.) Check clearances by holding parts in the gap between template and walls, and then mark down the centers on the masking tape. (Try THAT with Sellotape!)
Once everything is marked, I put unusual parts inside it and screw the back on (rattlerattlerattle... I have a small library of the usual suspects next to the drill press for checking sizes against the set of drill bits.) Then it's off to Dad's workshop. Which is where I'm going with this either Friday, if I finish early, or Saturday, if I don't.
Not too far off from my procedure....
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Quote from: jimilee on November 07, 2013, 04:57:24 AM
I want to hear it!!! I'm feeling like imma need one
pretty sure it will sound like a lovetone meatball. plenty of demos on youtube...
WANT... WANT... WANT... 8)
Finished work early.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboxfront_zpsb042ae7f.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboxfront_zpsb042ae7f.jpg.html)
Getting a board with six pots, four rotaries, and two LED's to fit is a bloody nuisance.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboxback_zpse9c288b9.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboxback_zpse9c288b9.jpg.html)
Yes, with expression pedal jacks! And the usual FX loop :)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleguts_zps5c872216.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleguts_zps5c872216.jpg.html)
This Rissole is done cooking. Turn the oven off 180 degrees to cool down now. For me, at least :D
As you'd expect, it responds a LOT better with the back on, and the LDR's in complete darkness (when not receiving light from the LED's.) I spent a bit of time working out the setting placements on the switches, and so labelled it. My excuse for the CD marker and not paint or India Ink is that I didn't relish the idea of doing writing that fine. Yeah. That's it!
That Is RAD.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Quote from: LaceSensor on November 07, 2013, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: jimilee on November 07, 2013, 04:57:24 AM
I want to hear it!!! I'm feeling like imma need one
pretty sure it will sound like a lovetone meatball. plenty of demos on youtube...
Maybe...... :P
Smooth work as always dude
Killer work!
I'm going to try the Ldr/led combo too.
This is just the kind of inspiration I need to finish my meatball.
Sorry for the semi-dredge, but just a small note.
After playing around with this some more, I'm finding it a lot more usable than the Nautilus. I don't have to muck about with gain (SCREEEEEE!), or whatever sweep is, or peak. The Range switch is kick-ass in dialing it in, and with the blend and colour I can go from subtle to trippy.
Are you planning on posting to the Osh Park thread?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Stunning!
Woah!
I can't believe I completely missed this thread!!!
And here I am, actually waiting for parts from Banzai to build alanp's Doppelganger on a quest to build all Lovetone clones! ;D
Do you see any board revisions coming up or am I safe getting this from Osh?
And of course massive props to you for doing this, thanks a bunch buddy!
Also, how's GL5528 photoresistor for a "roll your own"?
Don't know what the GL5528 is, sorry. Got some later revisions, but I haven't built those up (or had them fabbed), so I'm sharing what I've found to actually work so far :)
Thanks for posting to the Osh thread Alan. Not that I have the time and money at the moment to build it, but.....someday. :)
Curt.
51.50 for a set of three. Anyone buying in? That's about 19.00 shipped to your door from mine. 2 other people in the US want to have a go?
So tempting, Jimi
Curt.
Quote from: ch1naski on December 02, 2013, 04:23:44 AM
So tempting, Jimi
Curt.
;D ;D ;D I don't have time to build it either, AND I am ankle deep in PCB's as it is.
Quote from: jimilee on December 02, 2013, 04:08:44 AM
51.50 for a set of three. Anyone buying in? That's about 19.00 shipped to your door from mine. 2 other people in the US want to have a go?
same thing for Europe? i really want to get these but I dont have $50 to burn pre-xmas?
i'll gladly order and redistribute if theres even one more board wanted anywhere in Europe...
Quote from: alanp on December 02, 2013, 03:52:54 AM
Don't know what the GL5528 is, sorry. Got some later revisions, but I haven't built those up (or had them fabbed), so I'm sharing what I've found to actually work so far :)
Well that's good enough for me, I'll be ordering one as soon as I get some cheddar together.
GL5528 it's this thing here (not that I'm buying that many ;D)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150pcs-Photo-Light-Sensitive-Resistor-Photoresistor-GL5528-5528-NEW-/200677397794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb94e1522
and this
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-131078630530567/GL55-Cds-Photocell.pdf
Specs seem to match 10k/1M?
Yeah, worth a shot. Socket it if you'd like to audit others :)
Looking into getting a set. Anyone needs a board?
I'll have a go!
One board for Jimilee, one left...
Are there build docs here that I'm not seeing?
Yep... it's here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xb0stdouhya9ia/Rissole.pdf
Figured it was, thanks.
Looking forwards to build reports :)
Sure thing!
I've been populating the Dopp 1.4 these days but with all the food and the bubbly, it's been real slow going. ::)
Got a FV500H the other day, and with it plugged into the Intensity jack, the Rissole can do a somewhat odd wah impression. (I don't have very good foot technique, due to never owning a wah, so I don't know how to demo this.)
Doesn't work with relatively low impedance expression pedals, you need a high impedance volume pedal (only using the Out jack.)
alanp any board run planned?
I built Meat Sphere and am very happy with it but always keen to try more and have a close friend who doesn't DIY and has wanted this for years so thinking about doing another would be pleased to try Rissole.
I don't have any boards at the moment :( but someone else might have a spare one, or you could order from OSHpark
http://oshpark.com/profiles/alanp (http://oshpark.com/profiles/alanp)
Dude, I have one board left from my Osh order. I'm taking one, Jimilee is taking the second one and I have one unspoken for.
It's actually on it's way to me from Osh as we speak. If you want it hit me up with a PM.
There is any board available for me?
Probably jumping on this too late but do you still have a pcb for sale? Ill send you a pm.
Sorry, i'm all out...
sent from my mobile device
you can lead a horse to oshpark but you cant get them to stump up $60
Nearly there on my oshpark Rissole build.
Not enveloping yet though . I had 5c3 vactrols in but replaced them with led ldr , thinking that was the problem, I don't have the power led installed nor do I have the moog switch installed yet, waiting for further parts for those. Thought it should work withou?
Is it ok to omit these or not?
Any other advice on what to try please.
I'd strongly advise to put the moog switch in, since it's in the state variable filter's feedback loop. Even if you just patch the middle lug to one of the outer ones (doesn't hugely matter, for testing purposes.)
Is the envelope detector working properly? (It's the LED next to the potentiometers.)
I pinched a toggle switch from another project and popped it in, but still no envelope, just studying my other pcb's and am quite sure that gnd 9,10,11 are not connected via traces ! Seems obvious why I'm getting no envelope now! Also it appears d7 is back to front . The square pad goes to 9v so I assume that's a mistake on the PCB? We'll I will get all the grounds connected and see where I standon the power led. I am sure not using a stomp pedal is the reason for me not seeing this before. Still can't see why gnd aren't connected with traces? Ok back in 5 minutes.
Oh my mistake with a continuity test I see all gnd pads are connected after all. Still can't make senseof the power led yet .. seems integral to the circuit tho , maybe that's my problem.
So I guess what I am now asking is how to wire the led pad and d7 without stomp switch . Maybe then I will have envelope ... Thanks for your patience.
D7 you can safely leave out.
Have you got the Decaypedal pad grounded? (Either through a switched 1/4" jack, or a wire link.)
Perhaps a photo of both sides would help...
yes Alan got the decay pad grounded, send and return linked and continuity tested , all sockets grounded to PCB ground, all led's are lit at a constant brightness , get brighter or dimmer if I adjust int pot. Blend gives dry and wet , can just hear a filtered slight difference on wet but obviously doesn't change or envelope.
Has anyone given voltage readings for the chip pins of a working build, think that would help, I will post some photos incase someone can spot an obvious mistake. I will also start stuffing my second PCB as I have some parts of different manufacture to try.
This has really hurt my brain.
Thanks for trying Mr.p !
Jza
The green led's sure look pretty , just wish they would dance for me !
Is there a layout eagle file to help me test the circuit ? I struggle to correlate the schematic to the minute traces . Might help , but I understand if its in a vault somewhere. :)
Quote from: JZA on April 07, 2014, 01:18:19 PM
yes Alan got the decay pad grounded, send and return linked and continuity tested , all sockets grounded to PCB ground, all led's are lit at a constant brightness , get brighter or dimmer if I adjust int pot. Blend gives dry and wet , can just hear a filtered slight difference on wet but obviously doesn't change or envelope.
Has anyone given voltage readings for the chip pins of a working build, think that would help, I will post some photos incase someone can spot an obvious mistake. I will also start stuffing my second PCB as I have some parts of different manufacture to try.
This has really hurt my brain.
Thanks for trying Mr.p !
Jza
The green led's sure look pretty , just wish they would dance for me !
sounds like the envelop detection isnt working
what dual op amp are you using, and where did you buy it from?
1458 and ne5532 are recommended, just dont buy them from Tayda
id bet money on that being your issue
Thanks lace I will give that a go , I'm using mc1458 I bought a tube off eBay .. worked in other projects , could be a duff one I will try changing that .. I got some ne5532 here somewhere too, also bought some more tl07cn for other builds , could be that. All socketed so should be a quick test.
Thanks Jza
Hmm still no envelope , tried new mc1458, ne5532 , a vintage mc1458, even swapped the tl074cn .
I checked for fabrication error on my spare PCB. All good tho!
Ok recap on my build, I have all pots and switches installed correctly, all switches continuity test good in position A1. I have decay pedal pad grounded, send and return connected via switched sockets and at times with a patch cable to make sure. I'm running it from 9v battery that I've even swapped.
Even without any input connected the lights are fully bright as. Would expect in up position and completely dark in down position . The intensity works as a glorified dimmer switch but input signal won't affect the lights at all .
The blend pot works and I can hear wet and dry , the wet sounds filtered , just needs movement.
So any ideas people?
I'm making another audio probe , lost the last one . Will put a constant tone through and see what I learn in the meantime.
JZA
Has anyone got a reliable source for 1458 known to work in this build or perhaps a spare chip ? Preferably in UK ?
Even though I have tried 4 different sources everything is pointing at this being the reason for no envelope.
I have noticed that with th Rissole , Meatsphere, and even the Nautilus that particular chips only seem to work, still not sure why this is , am I right in thinking all 1458 opamps are themselves clones of the 4458 vintage opamps as used in mutron iii and other pedals in the early 70's , I wonder if there is something in the Rissole circuits to be changed to accomadate all 458 chips.
Any thoughts or facts or chips ???
I've got the same circuit as the Meatsphere and the McMeat... :?
Yes that's why I mentioned them.... Think you may ave missed my point and questions,
What is it about these circuits that they are so fussy about which opamp can be used to generate envelopes?
With an answer to that we could establish what to modify in these circuits so accepting any opamp or at least a wider tolerance .
I suppose the meatball would be just as fussy with which chip to use. Obviously designed with one chip in mind!
I guess nobody here really knows the maths behind the original design.
If I could have working voltages I might get somewhere.
Can someone give pin readings please? Obviously with a constant tone and with no input would be most usefull . Hopefully I could modify my circuit to suit my chips that way. Surely I need more or less volts to the ins of the opamps. ????
Mine is with someone in another city right now :(
When I did a big mouser order, I made a point of including the IC that this thing needs... seem to have better luck with mouser than tayda for this project, for the dual opamp. I used a LM1458.
Quote from: JZA on April 09, 2014, 03:37:07 AM
Yes that's why I mentioned them.... Think you may ave missed my point and questions,
What is it about these circuits that they are so fussy about which opamp can be used to generate envelopes?
With an answer to that we could establish what to modify in these circuits so accepting any opamp or at least a wider tolerance .
I suppose the meatball would be just as fussy with which chip to use. Obviously designed with one chip in mind!
I guess nobody here really knows the maths behind the original design.
If I could have working voltages I might get somewhere.
Can someone give pin readings please? Obviously with a constant tone and with no input would be most usefull . Hopefully I could modify my circuit to suit my chips that way. Surely I need more or less volts to the ins of the opamps. ????
#
build your other PCB
the project works, its verified. So either you have made a mistake and havent properly debugged, or have chips which arent going to envelope.
I agree with you both, I have lm1458 on order.
I found this info which explains the reason for inactive envelopes using mc1458 in this circuit.. The NPN inputs certainly can't turn-on until 0.6V above the supply rail; actually over 1.5V to get the second stage active. Likewise the output can't pull-down all the way to the rail.
Seems obvious , but could be modified to suit any opamp.
Just waiting for my parts to arrive now.
Jza
I forgot to mention I built a stripboard version of the meatsphere using my mc1458 chips and that enveloped perfect , the build was mostly the meatsphere but I incorporated the Rissole mods , so that was the reason for my intial persistence with these chips ... I will get to the bottom of this, I guess there is a timeline regarding tolerances, am sure a couple of value changes on the Rissole will allow for any opamp use.
Should have mentioned this earlier !
Ahhh success on my 3rd board , works fine with any opamp !, so now I can resolve the problem with the other 2 boards, obviously its not the opamps , I will get back to you all when I find the spanner in the works. The only difference on the 3rd build is the make of electro caps and pots, although they all read the same with the volt meter , could be ampage difference? We'll I will sort it soon.
Finally resolved the issue with that first build, the trace between attack 3 and c6 was out, maybe burnt from soldering or a faulty board, either way these traces are just way too thin, I will use a different fabricator next time, especially as I live in UK. Anyone recommend fabricators for PCB in the uk ?
3 builds done.
I use a 40W iron, and I've never had a trace burn out.
I've got another Rissole layout with slightly thicker traces, but haven't shared it as I haven't had it fabbed and tested.
I like fat traces where you can clearly see the circuit path, important if someone modifies or repairs at a later date, all my vintage gear stands up to repairs , hence them still being around today, I think small and hidden traces are something for economic and disposable devices. Like Japanese motherboards... They do look cool but will they hold out 40 years or more, I'll be sure to let you know then , ;)
Reviving a super old post here, but I just picked up a Rissole Meatball clone on Reverb. It's got same layout as the one posted here, though it has a crazy psychedelic paint job.
What does that toggle switch in the middle do? Mine just seems to make a loud popping noise and makes the middle green LED come on, but I'm guessing it must have some other purpose. Thanks!
Quote from: alanp on November 08, 2013, 05:13:36 AM
Finished work early.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/Gutstwohand/rissoleboxfront_zpsb042ae7f.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/Gutstwohand/media/rissoleboxfront_zpsb042ae7f.jpg.html)
Stock, Q stays constant as the frequency changes. With the Moog Mod turned on, Q decreases with frequency. It can make the filter more usable with bass guitar.
Quote from: alanp on March 15, 2019, 08:54:15 PM
Stock, Q stays constant as the frequency changes. With the Moog Mod turned on, Q decreases with frequency. It can make the filter more usable with bass guitar.
Awesome, thanks so much for the reply!
Were the Rissole kits widely available, or just sold / made by someone here on this forum?
I sold a few blue-pcb Rissole 1.4 boards here, on the forum. After they were all gone, I shared the project on OSHpark. Some... person... downloaded the gerbers from OSH, got a load cheaply made in China, and started selling them on ebay. With no word to me about it. I don't share my new projects on OSHpark anymore.
Ugh, sorry to hear that. I haven't opened it up yet, so not sure if this is one of the original batches or chinese take out.
Thanks for your work on the project though! It's pretty awesome to be able to have a Meatball without taking out a second mortgage on the house.
Quote from: alanp on March 15, 2019, 09:14:30 PM
I sold a few blue-pcb Rissole 1.4 boards here, on the forum. After they were all gone, I shared the project on OSHpark. Some... person... downloaded the gerbers from OSH, got a load cheaply made in China, and started selling them on ebay. With no word to me about it. I don't share my new projects on OSHpark anymore.
yeah I saw that person selling clones using your boards.
At first it was a doppelganger and I thought he had ripped off the PCB you and I worked on
Then I saw he posted guts and its clearly your work that he has totally ripped.
In the UK we use the word cunt to describe such reprobates