Just found a used Squire Affinity Strat on Craigs list for $100. It was near my house so I thought I'd pick it up as a project guitar. Something I can use to learn how to work on guitar without harming my real axes.
It's definitely cheap but I expected that, but there might be some potential here. The neck and the action is OK. The frets need some dressing so I'll use this to learn how to do that.
So the challenge: Turn this guitar into something decent if that is possible. I know there are a lot of creative guys here. So any suggestions?
got any pics of it?
Sure thing. I learned the ropes on cheap guitars (before and during luthier training) before hacking up good ones ;)
For fret dressing do you want to do a complete fret level, crown, and polish? Gonna need some proper tools for that (mainly crowning file). You can crown with a triangle file but it is a long learning curve.
What kind of tools do you have?
Quote from: TreeSlayer on January 02, 2014, 03:33:52 PM
got any pics of it?
Hopefully tonight I can get some pics up.
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Sure thing. I learned the ropes on cheap guitars (before and during luthier training) before hacking up good ones ;)
For fret dressing do you want to do a complete fret level, crown, and polish? Gonna need some proper tools for that (mainly crowning file). You can crown with a triangle file but it is a long learning curve.
What kind of tools do you have?
I don't have anything at this point. I'm willing to purchase some. Between my wife and I we have 8 guitars so it would be nice to learn how to do some of this myself.
tell ya what, the person you really need to talk to is Brian Holbrook (phreek). he's built two guitars for me. i'm VERY satisfied with his work and expertise.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/TreeSlayer/th_2013-07-30191130_zpsefc0c179.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/TreeSlayer/ResizedImage951387076719121-1_zps3656a6ca.jpg
the tele is here at the house. it plays like a dream! the strat hasn't arrived yet, but if it's half as good as the tele, i'll be tickled pink!
Quote from: billstein on January 02, 2014, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Sure thing. I learned the ropes on cheap guitars (before and during luthier training) before hacking up good ones ;)
For fret dressing do you want to do a complete fret level, crown, and polish? Gonna need some proper tools for that (mainly crowning file). You can crown with a triangle file but it is a long learning curve.
What kind of tools do you have?
I don't have anything at this point. I'm willing to purchase some. Between my wife and I we have 8 guitars so it would be nice to learn how to do some of this myself.
I can help you with decisions on fret tools (or other luthier tools) you want to consider. Actually I have a pretty much brand-new fret crowning file from stew-mac I would sell cheap to get you started on your collection.
I recently upgraded to diamond crowning files (i.e. very expensive) and have extra steel files that are near-new
At any rate, ask away if you have any questions.
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: billstein on January 02, 2014, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Sure thing. I learned the ropes on cheap guitars (before and during luthier training) before hacking up good ones ;)
For fret dressing do you want to do a complete fret level, crown, and polish? Gonna need some proper tools for that (mainly crowning file). You can crown with a triangle file but it is a long learning curve.
What kind of tools do you have?
I don't have anything at this point. I'm willing to purchase some. Between my wife and I we have 8 guitars so it would be nice to learn how to do some of this myself.
I can help you with decisions on fret tools (or other luthier tools) you want to consider. Actually I have a pretty much brand-new fret crowning file from stew-mac I would sell cheap to get you started on your collection.
I recently upgraded to diamond crowning files (i.e. very expensive) and have extra steel files that are near-new
At any rate, ask away if you have any questions.
Thank you Pryde that's very kind of you. What do you suggest I need? I did go onto Stew-Macs site to look around and it was pretty overwhelming for a newbie like me. It seems I could spend a lot of money on things I might not need. I'm not going to be doing this for a living so I want to be careful what I spend, at the same time I like being independent and being able to do my own work.
Probably the weakest point on the guitar is the electronics. I was thinking about replacing these and maybe playing with some on-board toys like trying to jam something like a fatpants in there.
To be honest my plan is to replace everything over the long haul with quality parts (Pickups, tuners, switches etc.). Parts I can use now but move to a nicer body and neck over time when killer deals come along. It may take a few years to end up with a killer guitar, but it will be one that I've put together and along the way I'll be learning and experimenting on the cheaper stuff. I also have a cheap Les Paul copy that will eventually go under the knife as part of the learning curve. :)
So I'm looking for advice on every aspect of improving the guitar. Anybody have any suggestions for pickups?
A long winded answer. Sorry.
The "right" tools do depend on your goals and needs of course. No sense in spending a ton on things you may hardly ever use. Really fretwork can/is expensive in terms of time investment and tools to do it for a living (as I do). BUT, if you want to learn to do fret leveling for personal use it is a good skill to have for your own benefit. The only "dedicated/unique" tool I recommend is the crowning file. All other aspects of the fret-dress job can be done with common tools/items: leveling block, sandpaper (250-1500 grit graduated), 0000 steel wool.
GFS (guitarfetish.com) has a TON of upgrade parts. Affinitys have a thinner body so some parts wont work properly without a little yankee innovation. For example, the tremolo block is one of the better upgrades you can do to a squire. Stock ones are crap pot metal and taper down to about 1/4", the GFS blocks are solid steel or brass and are about 5/8" all the way down. Problem is they stick out the back just a tad. So what I did was to to the plumbing dept of your local hardware store and get some rubber faucet washers, put these between the body and back plate. The washers will act as a stand off for the plate and give you the proper clearance. Come on over and join the forum at www.squier-talk.com we have tons of mods going on from strats to teles and helpful ideas
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 08:06:01 PM
The "right" tools do depend on your goals and needs of course. No sense in spending a ton on things you may hardly ever use. Really fretwork can/is expensive in terms of time investment and tools to do it for a living (as I do). BUT, if you want to learn to do fret leveling for personal use it is a good skill to have for your own benefit. The only "dedicated/unique" tool I recommend is the crowning file. All other aspects of the fret-dress job can be done with common tools/items: leveling block, sandpaper (250-1500 grit graduated), 0000 steel wool.
The more I play it the less alien it feels. It really isn't that bad. The frets are sharp and should be finished and it could definitely be set up better. The action is a little high when you get up to about the 10th fret. Is that adjustment done with the truss rod or?
Quote from: pedalman on January 02, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
GFS (guitarfetish.com) has a TON of upgrade parts. Affinitys have a thinner body so some parts wont work properly without a little yankee innovation. For example, the tremolo block is one of the better upgrades you can do to a squire. Stock ones are crap pot metal and taper down to about 1/4", the GFS blocks are solid steel or brass and are about 5/8" all the way down. Problem is they stick out the back just a tad. So what I did was to to the plumbing dept of your local hardware store and get some rubber faucet washers, put these between the body and back plate. The washers will act as a stand off for the plate and give you the proper clearance. Come on over and join the forum at www.squier-talk.com we have tons of mods going on from strats to teles and helpful ideas
Thanks Pedalman. I did go over to check out that site, it looks like there is some great info there. Did you change out the electronics in your guitar?
That's a great platform for learning to wrench on guitars. As long as a guitar stays in tune, is intonated correctly, and has a good fretjob (level etc)...it's a good guitar no matter where it's made.
In order of suggested tweaks
1) Level, dress, polish frets (minimal cost, mostly tools)
2) Basic setup - intonation (free)
3) Locking tuners...love these as the staggered ones can let you get rid of string trees (about $40)
4) Upgrade bridge
5) Pickup/electronics replacement (GFS has some pretty good pickups for cheap)
6) Upgrade Nut (graphtech or other low friction)
Quote from: billstein on January 03, 2014, 08:29:10 PM
Quote from: pedalman on January 02, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
GFS (guitarfetish.com) has a TON of upgrade parts. Affinitys have a thinner body so some parts wont work properly without a little yankee innovation. For example, the tremolo block is one of the better upgrades you can do to a squire. Stock ones are crap pot metal and taper down to about 1/4", the GFS blocks are solid steel or brass and are about 5/8" all the way down. Problem is they stick out the back just a tad. So what I did was to to the plumbing dept of your local hardware store and get some rubber faucet washers, put these between the body and back plate. The washers will act as a stand off for the plate and give you the proper clearance. Come on over and join the forum at www.squier-talk.com we have tons of mods going on from strats to teles and helpful ideas
Thanks Pedalman. I did go over to check out that site, it looks like there is some great info there. Did you change out the electronics in your guitar?
LOL...The only thing stock is the body and neck. I found a guy on ebay that hand winds pickups. Do a search on ebay for "Pink Tone pickups"
It says David Gilmour black strat all over the tone. love em
That's just one of my projects. Got 2 others on the bench as we speek. Doing a SRV and I have a blue strat undergoing a huge makeover
its just another addiction. We have John Deere paint at work, now im thinking green strat, yellow pg & green covers and knobs. LOL
For fret leveling I highly recommend this as mandatory reading:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/201556-fret-leveling-yer-tele-101-a.html (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/201556-fret-leveling-yer-tele-101-a.html)
It's way easier than most think. I purchase a crowning file from StewMac and my leveling file is a floor level I found at HarborFreight for $5 or so. I also got a reel of 1 inch wide aluminum oxide sandpaper there that will last five lifetimes. Spray adhesive the paper to the file and its good to go. Only other tools you need are masking tape and a sharper marker.
-Josh
Quote from: pedalman on January 04, 2014, 01:05:22 AM
LOL...The only thing stock is the body and neck. I found a guy on ebay that hand winds pickups. Do a search on ebay for "Pink Tone pickups"
It says David Gilmour black strat all over the tone. love em
That's just one of my projects. Got 2 others on the bench as we speek. Doing a SRV and I have a blue strat undergoing a huge makeover
its just another addiction. We have John Deere paint at work, now im thinking green strat, yellow pg & green covers and knobs. LOL
Thanks for the quick reply.
I was thinking about trying some CS69 pickups but I will probably end up ordering those "Pink Tones" and save some money. I remember reading somewhere that a better 5 position switch would not fit because of the shallow body. Have you found that to be true?
One other question since you have worked on the same model. Did you change out the pots? If so, did you use the same values? What about the tone capacitor?
Full size 250k pots. wire extra long leads off the tone and jack. take your jack plate off run the leads through the jack hole to a breadboard. sit on the couch with a table in front of you with the breadboard. go to radio shack and get a assortment of the chicklet style caps to play with.
once you find the one, use it or get that value in a orange drop. guitarelectronics.com had a decent assortment of orange drops. while your at guitarelectronics.com take a look at some of the electronic parts. lots of mojo stuff. If you ever run into clearance issues, dremmel makes a router base for a dremmel tool (worth its weight in gold)
Scour the net for texas specials, a lot of the time you can find these on the cheap
(SE strat is a full size) try to find one of those to mod. Its a sickness that goes beyond pedal building, enjoy !
Keep a few things in mind. If you buy a guitar and you plan to replace the neck and/or body, it's not a bargain. Ideally the neck feels nice and the body is workable. Otherwise it's a scratch build. As you get better at fretwork you might decide to replace them all. Not a bad thing, it's a task that's best learned on a cheap neck. If you bugger it up...THEN start looking for a new neck. GFS is a great resource for good quality parts with great service. Keep in mind we're not talking Jason Lollar here, but the pickups and hardware are WAY better than the price would point to. I'd pit a lot of their stuff against many big names. My tele has a set of custom Seymour Duncans and sounds amazing. One of my strats has a trio of GFS pickups and the whole set cost less than one of the SDs and also sounds amazing.
For tools stick to the StewMac catalog and then buy stuff within your budget. I have a sanding beam and a nice set of fret files that didn't break my bank. I'd love to have the neck tension jig and all the other cool stuff but to be honest: even with the simple tools I have, I've accumulated enough experience to setup a guitar that plays with the best of them. I have a fleet of cheap mutt guitars that play as good or better than a lot of axes costing 10x the price.
Quote from: pryde on January 02, 2014, 08:06:01 PM
The "right" tools do depend on your goals and needs of course. No sense in spending a ton on things you may hardly ever use. Really fretwork can/is expensive in terms of time investment and tools to do it for a living (as I do). BUT, if you want to learn to do fret leveling for personal use it is a good skill to have for your own benefit. The only "dedicated/unique" tool I recommend is the crowning file. All other aspects of the fret-dress job can be done with common tools/items: leveling block, sandpaper (250-1500 grit graduated), 0000 steel wool.
Totally agree with pryde! Im far away of being a pro on this but i build a Tele and did all the fretts leveling. Other important tool is a very straight metal plate wide enough to put on the top of three frets. I´ve got a spatule for wall repairing stuff for 1 euro. it works fine to check what frets need to be filled.
My suggestion for the project:
Pickups: u have to decide yourself :P
500K pot for tone
For the neck, why not a scalloped one?Blackmore style! you can find easily videos on how to do it with a simple file. and you will get a different guitar!
body paint: a two collors swirl coat! very easy to do it, low cost!
Good luck!
Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I just ordered a new tremolo with a brass block and locking tuners from Guitar Fetish. So it has begun. When I take the strings off to put all this on I'll also deal with the frets.
Pryde I've pm'd you about the file you were talking about.
I'm excited and know I'll have a million questions. Thanks again for all your help.
Quote from: TreeSlayer on January 02, 2014, 04:17:04 PM
tell ya what, the person you really need to talk to is Brian Holbrook (phreek). he's built two guitars for me. i'm VERY satisfied with his work and expertise.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/TreeSlayer/th_2013-07-30191130_zpsefc0c179.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/TreeSlayer/ResizedImage951387076719121-1_zps3656a6ca.jpg
Wow Treeslayer. Those guitars are absolutely gorgeous.
My wife has a Tele that is in need of a lot of work. Soon as I learn what I'm doing on it's cheaper brothers, I want to turn that into a great guitar for her. She's an excellent musician and deserves it. :) Your tele inspired me.
Should be getting my tuners and tremolo from Guitar Fetish in the next couple of days. Since I'll have the strings off it will be time to deal with those frets. I have a couple questions for you gurus.
What do you use to check if the frets are level? I see on StewMac these fancy straight edges with notches on one side for the frets. I'm sure that would be great but I can't justify putting out the 80 bucks to get it. Would a cheap metal ruler from a hardware store be sufficient?
Also, what about the neck radius. I see on Stewmac they have tools to use to figure out what the radius is then sanding blocks shaped to that radius. Again, they aren't cheap. Are they necessary, if not what do you guys use.
I do have a fret crowning file that I purchased from Pryde on it's way.
Again, thanks everybody for your help so far and for future help. Wouldn't even try this without you being there.
Hello Bill
Your fret crown file should be there any day.
First, unless you bought a new USA Gibson that has been pleked, your frets will benefit from a level/crown so rest-assured you wont really need to measure them. But...
The small machined fret rocker will help you determine high frets (in relation to adjacent frets) so its a nice little tool to have.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Measuring/Fret_Rocker.html
The notched straight edge determines neck relief based on the WOOD itself and not the tops of the frets. I use one in my shop everyday for setups but it is not necessary if you first do a fret level because your fret tops will be even so you can determine neck relief with any regular straight edge (i.e. hardware store tools)
There are various tools to determine neck radius but I wouldn't worry about investing in them at this point.
Most modern fenders/squires have a 9.5" radius neck unless they are some sort of special run or vintage-spec model.
You can use a straight block to level your frets just fine. I use a slab of polished granite (1.25" thick x 12" long) with free-cut 250 grit sand paper stuck to it. I have done literally hundreds of fret levels with this.
Thanks Pryde. Just ordered the fret rocker. :D
Quote from: billstein on January 13, 2014, 05:50:52 PM
Thanks Pryde. Just ordered the fret rocker. :D
If you can add to your order I would also recommend these items as well:
String action gauge: you can adjust each string accurately off the 12th fret to allow them to follow your fretboard radius.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Measuring_tools/String_Action_Gauge.html
Fingerboard guards: you will need these during the fret crown and polishing process:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Polishing_and_abrasives/Fingerboard_Guards.html
These 2 tools are not expensive and pretty invaluable for guitar work.
+1 to both of the above. I'd add the Gorgomyte cloth as well. For routine fingerboard and fret cleaning you cut a 1" square out of the cloth and with a LOT of elbow grease the feel of the wood and frets is amazing. Best money I've spent in a long time.
Quote from: pryde on January 13, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: billstein on January 13, 2014, 05:50:52 PM
Thanks Pryde. Just ordered the fret rocker. :D
If you can add to your order I would also recommend these items as well:
String action gauge: you can adjust each string accurately off the 12th fret to allow them to follow your fretboard radius.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Measuring_tools/String_Action_Gauge.html
Fingerboard guards: you will need these during the fret crown and polishing process:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Polishing_and_abrasives/Fingerboard_Guards.html
These 2 tools are not expensive and pretty invaluable for guitar work.
Picked both of these up.
Quote from: pryde on January 13, 2014, 05:09:21 PM
You can use a straight block to level your frets just fine. I use a slab of polished granite (1.25" thick x 12" long) with free-cut 250 grit sand paper stuck to it. I have done literally hundreds of fret levels with this.
Where did you buy your granite from?
Look up a local granite countertop company. They usually have tons of scrap pieces laying around and will likely just let you have some.
I use 2 lengths, a 12" one for main leveling and a shorter 6" piece to put some fall-away on the frets from the 12th to the end fret.
Here they are: I put the 3M 250 grit free-cut sandpaper on the polished side. I change the sandpaper ~every 10 fret levels or so depending on how it looks/cuts. The weight of the granite blocks provides enough resistance to cut the fret material so no need to push, just let the tool do the cutting and be patient (same goes for the fret crowning file)
Just got in some tools from Stewmac. Which of course leads to a couple more questions.
1. Should I do the fret work with the neck off of the guitar? I read somewhere that you should do this if the neck is bolt on.
2. Do you do the fret work after adjusting the neck to be completely straight?
3. What kind of wrench would I use to adjust the Affinity Strat's neck?
1. your preference but since its your first I would say remove it for ease of access to lower frets
2. Yes. The neck must be straight (no relief or back bow) when you do a fret level.
3. Not for sure but if it is an allen key then most likely 3 or 4mm.
I am going to link you to a picture tutorial I did on a fret dress job on my FB page. It is not a detailed "how to" but gives you the steps with some pics for reference. pics are 1-10 in order with some captions to read:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.223513831153370.1073741853.132279456943475&type=1
Thanks Jeff.
Another question (of course). Amazing how each step brings up another one.
While I have the strings off, seems like a good time to replace the nut. Anybody know if they make a pre-cut Graph tech nut for the Chinese made squires?
Quote from: billstein on January 18, 2014, 01:00:37 PM
Thanks Jeff.
Another question (of course). Amazing how each step brings up another one.
While I have the strings off, seems like a good time to replace the nut. Anybody know if they make a pre-cut Graph tech nut for the Chinese made squires?
Not sure on "drop in replacements" really. I only cut new ones from blank micarta, bone, or graphtech material. Getting into nut making/replacement is another animal with lots of tools and practice so I would not start chewing on that one yet :)
Quote from: pryde on January 18, 2014, 11:59:00 AM
1. your preference but since its your first I would say remove it for ease of access to lower frets
2. Yes. The neck must be straight (no relief or back bow) when you do a fret level.
3. Not for sure but if it is an allen key then most likely 3 or 4mm.
I am going to link you to a picture tutorial I did on a fret dress job on my FB page. It is not a detailed "how to" but gives you the steps with some pics for reference. pics are 1-10 in order with some captions to read:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.223513831153370.1073741853.132279456943475&type=1
Thanks again and that link was really helpful. Now I see why a fret job is so expensive.
Ok. Almost there. I have everything except the adhesive backed sandpaper. Is Stewmac the place to get that from or can you use regular sheets of sandpaper with spray adhesive?
Quote from: billstein on January 21, 2014, 11:23:07 AM
Ok. Almost there. I have everything except the adhesive backed sandpaper. Is Stewmac the place to get that from or can you use regular sheets of sandpaper with spray adhesive?
I buy the Stewmac 3M roll of 250 grit but it is pricey. Cheaper method is use spray adhesive. Make sure you get good quality free-cut sandpaper as you don't want the fret material to bunch up when leveling.
Quote from: pryde on January 21, 2014, 01:55:28 PM
Quote from: billstein on January 21, 2014, 11:23:07 AM
Ok. Almost there. I have everything except the adhesive backed sandpaper. Is Stewmac the place to get that from or can you use regular sheets of sandpaper with spray adhesive?
I buy the Stewmac 3M roll of 250 grit but it is pricey. Cheaper method is use spray adhesive. Make sure you get good quality free-cut sandpaper as you don't want the fret material to bunch up when leveling.
Just ordered the sandpaper from Stewmac. Soon as that comes in the guitar goes under the knife. I'm excited and a bit nervous about it all.
You will get several yards of that 250 grit so it will last you a long time, pricey but very high quality stuff.
Good luck with your project, remember its practice at this point so don't get discouraged. Most all mistakes are fixable unless you somehow blow it up ;D
I think I have everything I need. Large sanding block, sandpaper, string action gauge, fingerboard guards, fret crowning file, fret rocker.
I've taken the neck off and got it as flat as I think I'm going to get it. I've marked all the frets with a red marker. I guess I start sanding next. Any suggestions on how to go about this?
Quote from: billstein on February 04, 2014, 09:24:55 PM
I think I have everything I need. Large sanding block, sandpaper, string action gauge, fingerboard guards, fret crowning file, fret rocker.
I've taken the neck off and got it as flat as I think I'm going to get it. I've marked all the frets with a red marker. I guess I start sanding next. Any suggestions on how to go about this?
Remember the neck has a radius so gently follow that as you move the sanding block. Also the direction of sanding should be more or less nut<>heal (long ways).
Go slow and gentle always and take a preliminary pass with the sanding block so that you can "read" the fret plane by looking at the initial areas where your red marker is gone. This will tell you if your neck is indeed flat. If you see wear in the middle (say frets 5-12) then you have some backbow and should loosen the truss a bit. If you have no wear in the middle but only on first few frets and then again on higher frets then you have to much relief and need to tighten the truss a bit.
Once you have determined you are sanding a relatively flat plane, then proceed gently and slow checking your red marks every few passes with the sanding block. You will likely end up with just a couple spots (divots or very low spots) that will finally emerge. Continue sanding right to the point were the last red area just disappears and STOP. Frets are leveled and you are ready for step 2: crowning
Thanks again Jeff for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.
check out the forums at projectguitar.com
you can find the answers to anything you need. lots of incredible talent and resources there
I've never used his pickups on a Strat, but I have Bill Lawrence (Wilde Pickups) Keystones in my Tele and I LOVE them. And you cannot beat them for the price (although apparently Tonerider's are pretty decent too).
Might want to check out Bill's work at www.wildepickups.com $84 for the set of 3 keystones for strat. He's the real deal when it comes to pickups. Family owned and operated, hand made in the USA by a master craftsman that hold a lot of pickup patents (he actually has workers do it, but their attention to detail is great. He used to work for Gibson LONG ago. Dont get confused with Bill Lawrence USA pickups which are made by some russian guy that refuses to give up the name and actually sued Bill Lawrence and forced him to change his company name to Wilde Pickups.
Tonerider can be purchased on ebay and some other sites online www.tonerider.com. I've got a set of Tone Rider p90s waiting to go into a thinline tele build.