Hi, I hate having to ask for help but....... I'm stuck.
I've spent the day building an aquaboy dx using:
2x tested mn3005 (tested in a dod fx90)
1x tested sa570 compander
1x mn3101 also tested
I've tried everything I can think of, including:
reflowed all joints
Checked all resistors
Checked all caps
Checked polarity/ orientations
The good:
Bypass is clear
Dry signal is good
I get clock noise when I adjust the clock trimmer (9v on pin 1)
The vactrol and lfo portion is working- rate and depth knobs work
The mix knob works
The depth knob adjusts the freq of the clock noise heard
The bad:
No matter what I do there is no delay at all.
I had d3 installed initially- cut out now- mn3101 retested and still works
Running at 9v and see 9v at the pin 1 of each mn3005.
What else can I do? Any suggestions?
Exact same thing I got going on, except I'm running a little under 15v
Full voltages from both of you ;)
I don't know what happened, but I swapped 10k's for the 39k's I had in R13 & R14, I moved the bias trims CW in small increments until the repeats were clean. I still got some tweaking to do, but it's useable now :)
Quote from: jighead81 on April 26, 2014, 09:58:54 PM
I don't know what happened, but I swapped 10k's for the 39k's I had in R13 & R14, I moved the bias trims CW in small increments until the repeats were clean. I still got some tweaking to do, but it's useable now :)
You're looking to bias the compander output to 1/2 supply, so what's the voltage on Pin 7 & 13 of the 570/571.
Quote from: Scruffie on April 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: jighead81 on April 26, 2014, 09:58:54 PM
I don't know what happened, but I swapped 10k's for the 39k's I had in R13 & R14, I moved the bias trims CW in small increments until the repeats were clean. I still got some tweaking to do, but it's useable now :)
You're looking to bias the compander output to 1/2 supply, so what's the voltage on Pin 7 & 13 of the 570/571.
With the 10k's in 13 and 14 as per the docs, I get 2.94v on pin 7 and 1.89v on pin 13. Worth increasing the values of 13 and 14?
Gonna try some different values there also, I couldn't get any delay just trying to calibrate IC3, once I put in both IC's I had a delayed signal and went from there.
Quote from: thorpy6 on April 26, 2014, 10:28:52 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on April 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: jighead81 on April 26, 2014, 09:58:54 PM
I don't know what happened, but I swapped 10k's for the 39k's I had in R13 & R14, I moved the bias trims CW in small increments until the repeats were clean. I still got some tweaking to do, but it's useable now :)
You're looking to bias the compander output to 1/2 supply, so what's the voltage on Pin 7 & 13 of the 570/571.
With the 10k's in 13 and 14 as per the docs, I get 2.94v on pin 7 and 1.89v on pin 13. Worth increasing the values of 13 and 14?
You can socket them and try 15-18k, although I do seem to recall actually the DM-2 is biased a little low naturally... bit late on the evening to brush up on my compander knowledge though.
Are you sure about your pin 13, that should be your supply.
Full voltages from both of you would make the whole thing clearer.
Quote from: Scruffie on April 26, 2014, 11:38:55 PM
Are you sure about your pin 13, that should be your supply.
Full voltages from both of you would make the whole thing clearer.
My error, I counted down on lhs rather than up. I'll correct tomorrow and give a full voltage readout for all chips.
3.07v on pin 7
1.8v on pin 13
Does that seem right?
Quote from: jighead81 on April 27, 2014, 12:28:03 AM
3.07v on pin 7
1.8v on pin 13
Does that seem right?
Please also post full voltages, it's very difficult to tell with snap shots.
But no, pin 13 is the voltage on the 570/571, 1.8V would be wrong, but if you have 3.07V on 7 it's likely there's a mistake in your readings, as I said, full voltages will clear things up.
Sorry, goofed on pin 13, here's the voltages for NE570N. I think I might be losing power somewhere. As soon as I turn the pedal on, the 15v from the regulator drops to around 10v.
1.37 on 1
1.82 on 2
1.82 on 3
0.0 on 4
1.82 on 5
1.82 on 6
3.07 on 7
1.82 on 8
1.82 on 9
4.84 on 10
4.83 on 11
1.82 on 12
10v on13
1.82 on14
1.82 on 15
.90 on 16
Yeah that ain't right, something is drawing too much current/shorting or your regulator is faulty/not getting enough voltage.
Regulator reads at 14.95 until I hook it up to the board, then it drops to around 10v and fluctuates with the blinking of the mod LED. Tried 4 other regulators, same problem. I got a leak somewhere. Thanks so much for your help man!
Quote from: jighead81 on April 27, 2014, 01:40:52 AM
Regulator reads at 14.95 until I hook it up to the board, then it drops to around 10v and fluctuates with the blinking of the mod LED. Tried 4 other regulators, same problem. I got a leak somewhere. Thanks so much for your help man!
Tried disconnecting that LED? (if that's a separate one to the vactrol one disconnect that too).
I put in a LT1054 and now it's running a steady 15V. Got the BBD's calibrated and it sounds lovely. Got a new problem now. The rate indicator LED just stays on now, and doesn't pulse, and I don't have any modulation
ok, here are the voltages running from a 9v supply:
353 chipe
1=4.58
2=4.58
3=4.55
4=0
5=4.58
6=4.58
7=4.58
8=9v
062 chip
1=floating
2=4-5v float
3=3-5v float
4=0
5=4.58
6=4.58
7=4.58
8=9v
sa571n
1=0.9
2=1.8
3=1.8
4=0.3
5=1.8
6=1.8
7=2.9
8=1.8
9=1.8
10=4.8
11=4.8
12=1.8
13=9.16
14=1.8
15=1.8
16=0.8
MN3005
1=8.98
2=4.5
3=4.6
4=4.6
5=0
6=4.5
7=4.4
8=0.6
MN3101
1=9
2=4.5
3= 0
4=4.5
5=2.9-3.9 float
6=4.9-5.5 float
7=4.1-4.5 float
8=0.6v
Quote from: jighead81 on April 27, 2014, 04:17:50 AM
I put in a LT1054 and now it's running a steady 15V. Got the BBD's calibrated and it sounds lovely. Got a new problem now. The rate indicator LED just stays on now, and doesn't pulse, and I don't have any modulation
...What were you using before the LT1054?
TL062 voltages, try without the rate indicator LED too.
Quote from: thorpy6 on April 27, 2014, 11:09:40 AM
ok, here are the voltages running from a 9v supply:
353 chipe
1=4.58
2=4.58
3=4.55
4=0
5=4.58
6=4.58
7=4.58
8=9v
062 chip
1=floating
2=4-5v float
3=3-5v float
4=0
5=4.58
6=4.58
7=4.58
8=9v
sa571n
1=0.9
2=1.8
3=1.8
4=0.3
5=1.8
6=1.8
7=2.9
8=1.8
9=1.8
10=4.8
11=4.8
12=1.8
13=9.16
14=1.8
15=1.8
16=0.8
MN3005
1=8.98
2=4.5
3=4.6
4=4.6
5=0
6=4.5
7=4.4
8=0.6
MN3101
1=9
2=4.5
3= 0
4=4.5
5=2.9-3.9 float
6=4.9-5.5 float
7=4.1-4.5 float
8=0.6v
Thank you, right, 353 is fine, compander is fine (pin 7 is biased a little low though so you may want to diddle with R13 & 14 like we discussed) TL062 is fine... all looks okay voltage wise.
Now it'll be time to audio probe the circuit and see where the signal is getting to.
Cool, audio probed the circuit (which enabled me to bias the mn3005's without a signal getting to them) it was the signal between the com pander and the MN3005 that was weak. I adjusted R13 and 14 to 18k each and the delays rang through clean and clear.......
thank you for your help, really glad this got sorted because its such a great sounding delay.
and to prove my build is complete here are the guts etc:
(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m447/thorpy6/EDFC5F03-7339-4F87-8C14-AC3EA1AB1B4C.jpg) (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/thorpy6/media/EDFC5F03-7339-4F87-8C14-AC3EA1AB1B4C.jpg.html)
(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m447/thorpy6/CEA03D8A-B61D-47D7-B903-05312282DC3C.jpg) (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/thorpy6/media/CEA03D8A-B61D-47D7-B903-05312282DC3C.jpg.html)
oh and is there any chance the build docs can make it clear r13 and R14 should be socketed 100%? it seems to be quite important..
Nice job thorpy!
As far as the TL062 goes.... I was troubleshooting the modulation section last night and removed the 100k from R43 because it looked kinda fishy. For some reason I replaced it with a 10k. That's what my problem was. I put a 100k back in there and now I have modulation! The only problem I have left is that I get oscillation at the halfway point of the feedback pot, with the trimmer all the way down. Off to troubleshoot that. Thanks so much for the help Scruff
Quote from: thorpy6 on April 27, 2014, 08:01:54 PM
oh and is there any chance the build docs can make it clear r13 and R14 should be socketed 100%? it seems to be quite important..
Why it has been such an issue i'm not so sure, I question if it's the chip brand but i'd have to see some data to support it.
Some reading of the compander cookbook should make it clearer, I believe it has the biasing equation, it's possible with a different production line the same equation no longer applies.
Quote from: Scruffie on April 27, 2014, 10:39:20 PM
Quote from: thorpy6 on April 27, 2014, 08:01:54 PM
oh and is there any chance the build docs can make it clear r13 and R14 should be socketed 100%? it seems to be quite important..
Why it has been such an issue i'm not so sure, I question if it's the chip brand but i'd have to see some data to support it.
Some reading of the compander cookbook should make it clearer, I believe it has the biasing equation, it's possible with a different production line the same equation no longer applies.
sounds like dry read!! seriously though, thanks for the help. very much appreciated.
Quote from: jighead81 on April 27, 2014, 10:32:06 PM
Nice job thorpy!
As far as the TL062 goes.... I was troubleshooting the modulation section last night and removed the 100k from R43 because it looked kinda fishy. For some reason I replaced it with a 10k. That's what my problem was. I put a 100k back in there and now I have modulation! The only problem I have left is that I get oscillation at the halfway point of the feedback pot, with the trimmer all the way down. Off to troubleshoot that. Thanks so much for the help Scruff
Ahh :)
That one does happen on occasion (I have a feeling it's once again down to compander biasing letting more signal through when biased right and also the increased signal swing of increasing the voltage = more signal hitting the BBD) you can play with R39 (increase) to get it down, or use a 100k feedback trim (T1).
And don't mention it guys :) glad to have helped get the pedals fired up.
I've got all the same symptoms that Thorpy initially had, will give this a try this evening.
Thanks for the help about that Scruffie :D
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 28, 2014, 02:03:58 AM
I've got all the same symptoms that Thorpy initially had, will give this a try this evening.
Thanks for the help about that Scruffie :D
If it doesn't work, post your full voltages and hopefully we can get if doing something ;)
I'm getting 5.6V at pin 7 of 571N, biasing should be half of the supply if i understanded this ok?
I got 7.3V at pin 7 of NE570 with 47k's in R13 & R14 running 15v. Is that in the ballpark of where I need to be?
I've socketed R13/14, now at 4.3V with 9V supply, using MN3005.
All my voltages looks ok compared to those posted by Thorpy, except Pin8 of MN3101 where i'm getting 7.4V opposite to 0.6V, but reading at the build doc it says that the voltage of VGG should be 14/15th of the supply. So it looks like it's in the ball park?
I'm getting the clock frequency at pin 5 and 6 of each MN3005, but when i probe Pin 3 and 4 to bias them, i get some sort of motor boating sound and nothing from either Pin3 and 4 of IC4.
I got 7.3V at pin 7 of NE570 with 47k's in R13 & R14 running 15v. Is that in the ballpark of where I need to be?
I don't know why that posted twice.
But Rej, I was getting the same kind of weird sounds when I tried to just probe pin 3. I actually ran a lead out from under the board from pin 3 of both IC's so I could just alligator clip them and have my hands free to turn the trims.
Are you getting any signal on Pin 7 of IC 3?
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 28, 2014, 06:46:59 AM
I've socketed R13/14, now at 4.3V with 9V supply, using MN3005.
All my voltages looks ok compared to those posted by Thorpy, except Pin8 of MN3101 where i'm getting 7.4V opposite to 0.6V, but reading at the build doc it says that the voltage of VGG should be 14/15th of the supply. So it looks like it's in the ball park?
I'm getting the clock frequency at pin 5 and 6 of each MN3005, but when i probe Pin 3 and 4 to bias them, i get some sort of motor boating sound and nothing from either Pin3 and 4 of IC4.
Your compander output V is fine.
Have you used D3? It wont work if you have, that'd explain your high 3101 pin 8 voltage.
14/15th is correct yes, but as the 3005 has its power/gnd pins reversed, that actually works out as about 0.6.
Quote from: jighead81 on April 28, 2014, 06:51:26 AM
I got 7.3V at pin 7 of NE570 with 47k's in R13 & R14 running 15v. Is that in the ballpark of where I need to be?
Yeah that's fine, doesn't have to be exactly half supply.
Quote from: Scruffie on April 28, 2014, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 28, 2014, 06:46:59 AM
I've socketed R13/14, now at 4.3V with 9V supply, using MN3005.
All my voltages looks ok compared to those posted by Thorpy, except Pin8 of MN3101 where i'm getting 7.4V opposite to 0.6V, but reading at the build doc it says that the voltage of VGG should be 14/15th of the supply. So it looks like it's in the ball park?
I'm getting the clock frequency at pin 5 and 6 of each MN3005, but when i probe Pin 3 and 4 to bias them, i get some sort of motor boating sound and nothing from either Pin3 and 4 of IC4.
Your compander output V is fine.
Have you used D3? It wont work if you have, that'd explain your high 3101 pin 8 voltage.
14/15th is correct yes, but as the 3005 has its power/gnd pins reversed, that actually works out as about 0.6.
I have used D3, per the Build Doc it's D2 that should be omitted when using MN3005, to limit the voltage supply to BBD, did'nt see any mention about D3.
Will give that a try, thanks!
It's not very clear in the document but it is there that it should be left out.
Quote from: Scruffie on April 28, 2014, 05:52:13 PM
It's not very clear in the document but it is there that it should be left out.
It indeed needs to be removed, this thing sounds freaking awesome! ;D
Just need to fine tune an option i added and it's finished.
Thanks a bunch Y'all!
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 28, 2014, 06:56:56 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on April 28, 2014, 05:52:13 PM
It's not very clear in the document but it is there that it should be left out.
It indeed needs to be removed, this thing sounds freaking awesome! ;D
Just need to fine tune an option i added and it's finished.
Thanks a bunch Y'all!
Umm... what is this option you speak of sir?
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 28, 2014, 06:56:56 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on April 28, 2014, 05:52:13 PM
It's not very clear in the document but it is there that it should be left out.
It indeed needs to be removed, this thing sounds freaking awesome! ;D
Just need to fine tune an option i added and it's finished.
Thanks a bunch Y'all!
Woohoo!! Congrats man