Ok, here's the deal: I really like the madbean projects and I also like to etch my own boards, but some projects (like the Harbinger One, the Pork Barrel and others) do not have an etchable layout that I can use for the toner transfer method.
How can I get those layouts?
If there isn't a single sided layout, then there isn't one that exists. Those circuits you named are quite complicated. The pork barrel has several vias connecting top and bottom traces. You'll need to order those circuits from Brian.
If you're okay with a univibe that three times the size of the Harbinger, RG Keen has an etchable Forum Vibe layout; I think Brian's minor changes are either already part of that design, or can be incorporated if you're willing to go through the schematic.
I'm also pretty sure that there must be a CE-2 single-sided layout floating around somewhere on DIYSB for instance. Again, it will be significantly larger.
These are two projects, though, where I think a PCB build will be every bit as satisfying as etching your own, especially considering whatever you save in the cost of the board will be lost in the cost of the enclosure!
+1^^^
Look at what you pay to order a board from Brian compared to what you pay in materials (FR4, FeCl, etc.), time, and effort to etch a board and it is much better to get it from Brian OR from Haberdasher if it is an older board.
Now... if you are an etching masochist like me, then you enjoy etching your own single sided 7" x 6" PCBs ::) :o
There's a ce-2 at tonepad if you must etch your own.
I get that people like etching boards. That's totally cool. I think it's amazing that Brian spends as much time as he does doing etching layouts for folks that would rather make their own boards than buy fabbed boards from him.
For some of the more complicated boards, the amount of time that Brian would have to spend putting together a fabbed layout is probably just not worth it. For those, I suspect it makes more sense for him to only do the fabbed versions. And even for folks that like to etch, buying a board here and there isn't so bad and it helps keep this place running.
Just my 2 cents. Not criticizing anybody, just trying to present a different perspective.
Quote from: pickdropper on April 30, 2014, 10:46:19 AM
I get that people like etching boards. That's totally cool. I think it's amazing that Brian spends as much time as he does doing etching layouts for folks that would rather make their own boards than buy fabbed boards from him.
For some of the more complicated boards, the amount of time that Brian would have to spend putting together a fabbed layout is probably just not worth it. For those, I suspect it makes more sense for him to only do the fabbed versions. And even for folks that like to etch, buying a board here and there isn't so bad and it helps keep this place running.
Just my 2 cents. Not criticizing anybody, just trying to present a different perspective.
+1 here.
o love doing my pcbs. and i've got the porbarrel and Zero point DD from Brian and i loved it.
It's not that I don't want to buy Madbean's PCBs! The fact is I live in Italy, so I would have to wait a really long time (even months) for an order to arrive and I also could end up paying up to 3 times (or even more) the actual value of my order if I take into account shipping, the Italian V.A.T. (22%) and other ridiculous taxes the people at the customs office could apply to my package!
However, is it possible to have the layouts for making double sided circuits? I think I can make some decent vias if I solder a jumper using stranded wire in the pcb holes...
Madbean doesn't offer double sided layouts....
Previously mentioned (http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/univibe/vibeupdate.pdf) are places you might find larger single sided layouts of similar (http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=101) effects.
Maybe your etching skills are up to snuff... as much room as there is for error on these types of builds, I'd stick to a PCB for the extra money.
I have heard that the Italian postal system is really bad. Things taking ages to arrive or not arriving at all! I can imagine how frustrating it must be.
Have you looked at creating your own layouts using EagleCad? It's not as difficult as you might think. You can create single sided layouts with jumpers if the circuits are complex. Like it's been said the boards will be quite big but if that doesn't bother you, then EagleCad might be worth learning.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
I have some knowledge on how to use Eagle actually... if I reproduced the two layers of Madbean's projects as etchable layouts and then proceeded to transfer them on the two sides of a fr4 board and drilled and wired the vias wouldn't the result be the same?
Why not just build my Warhead project? It is a single sided etching Univibe PCB that goes in a 1590BB.
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5296.0
You can easily add the optional input buffer from the Harbinger and call it a day.
BTW: I do have many Italian customers. I do not consider the Italian post to be more problematic than other European countries in the sense of lost shipments, etc. It happens once in a while but luckily it is pretty rare. FWIW.
VAT doesn't apply on orders under 50€. and yes, our postal system is bad, mainly because is very slow internally.
my order arrived a week ago in italy and it is still at the customs. orders take something like 4 weeks to arrive.
10 days from the united states to italy, 15-20 from the customs to our homes. however fabled pcbs are worth the wait, if only for a much better durability of the pedal in time.
Quote from: madbean on May 01, 2014, 06:23:05 AM
Why not just build my Warhead project? It is a single sided etching Univibe PCB that goes in a 1590BB.
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5296.0
You can easily add the optional input buffer from the Harbinger and call it a day.
BTW: I do have many Italian customers. I do not consider the Italian post to be more problematic than other European countries in the sense of lost shipments, etc. It happens once in a while but luckily it is pretty rare. FWIW.
Bean may have meant to link here (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=1768.0). I'm not sure, but it's an option as well, and includes the eagle files to make changes if you desire.
Thanks for all the replies :)
FYI: I heard that with DHL and the likes the problem at the customs is reduced... also, I think Madbean could take the VAT off international orders without losing any money.
I could order some of the more complicated PCBs in the future, but I think that I'll stick with the home etched ones for the time being.
nobody knows what you're talking about. madbean taking the VAT off? the vat is applied at the customs, in italy, and Brian doesn't work there. ps. in the end we are talking about maybe 20-30 dollars+ 3 for shipping. can you try it one time and see what happens, instead of bitch and moan?? if you don't like it, you are free to do whatever you want.
Quote from: pikervs on May 01, 2014, 07:48:48 AM
Thanks for all the replies :)
[...]
I think Madbean could take the VAT off international orders without losing any money.
[...]
Seriously dude?
Edit removed snarkiness on my part. Sorry.
Pietro, before going on insulting people, I think you should gather some information first. However, I admit I misscalled the VAT: in the USA it's known as the sales tax.
Let's suppose you make a 200 dollars order from a seller in America, and you live in Italy (taking shipping into account). Once it arrives in Italy you've got to pay the importing taxes (+5%) reaching 210 dollars, then the Italian VAT (+22%) reaching 256.2 dollars, then the customs fixed tax (+7.63 dollars), making a total of 263.83 dollars. If the seller is gentle enough to remove the american sales tax (why would I pay that? I don't live there. also, the seller is unaffected by this, profit-wise) this total drops to 238.21 dollars. It's not much, but it's something (especially now that money's tight). Also, in a lot of situation the importing taxes rates skyrocket for no good reason, so having a low total could end up saving MUCH more.
I hate to look like the penny-pinching guy, but I also hate to be insulted when I did no harm.
As per Clayford, I'm curious to know what you edited out ahah
I think this could be solved by making a smaller order. An order of 30-40 dollars is really only 20-30 euros. At that point, the order being small, I'm not sure that VAT comes into effect, and you might not worry about the cost as much.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 01, 2014, 08:49:38 AM
I think this could be solved by making a smaller order. An order of 30-40 dollars is really only 20-30 euros. At that point, the order being small, I'm not sure that VAT comes into effect, and you might not worry about the cost as much.
Jacob
This seems like really good advice to me.
I agree with Jacob.
If your intent is to build these for personal use, it is not like you need to order $200 worth of boards at one time. I mean, Can you assemble 30-40 boards at once? Order 2-3 and work on those. The order amount will most certainly keep you beneath the VAT threshold and you will not be charged.
If you are planning to order $200 worth of boards because you intend to resell them you have two option...
1) Make the order, deal with the extra costs, and incorporate them into your "business" expenses
2) Learn a PCB layout program (Eagle, Sprint, etc.) and do your own R&D. Its not Brian's job to help with YOUR profits.
My 2 8)
No, I don't want to enter the commercial side of the thing (and if I did I wouldn't use someone else's work, for sure!). Maybe I could build a pedal for some friends that do not have the skill and/or time to do it themselves, but that's it.
Jacob's advice is actually great. I could home etch some boards and order the more complicated ones off the website! Welp, gotta start saving...
P.S.
I didn't even get started on the parts side of the thing! Lots of stuff is only available from smallbear, so that's an awful lot of other taxes to get those... the more one can save maintaining quality, the better. It's a hobby, after all.
Some of the European guys might be able to help you out as well. Some companies, like Mouser for example, also have some special shipping rates that might really help you too. For example, if I make a $200 order here in Canada, the shipping is free, and the Customs and Duties are paid for by Mouser. So in the end, the order only costs me the price I pay, and the shipping and customs aren't added.
Again, the Euro guys here on the forum might have better advice. In particular, you could try Thomas_H. He's a really great guy, lives in Germany, and he'd totally be willing to help you with some advice about ordering parts.
Jacob
I'm not concerned about the stuff I can find on Mouser (the people there have an Italian branch). I'm more worried about stuff is only available from sites like Smallbear (some specific ICs for instance). It's not too big of a problem, but thanks for hel anyway.
Let me interject a little here since things got a bit heated for a moment.
MBP is a business but is also more than that: it is a DIY resource. I don't feel entitled to anyone's money if they don't won't want to spend it on my products. pikervs has his own reasons for wanting to completely DIY his build and that's totally fine. He is free to use the etchable projects here for such purpose...that's why they are there :)
1 - I don't share my actual schematic or layout files for the products I sell. These are considered proprietary to my business. People do ask occasionally and FYI the answer is sorry, but no.
2- Many of the products I sell have an etchable layout alternative, but not all. Sometimes this is because it is a very complicated circuit and sometimes it is because I want to make money due to the work and actual $$ investment I put into an MBP product. I may still do an etchable layout for such a product at a later time, though. And remember: there are some 150 new etching layouts coming in a matter of weeks!
3 - While I have no control over what happens once a package leaves my hands I do offer to replace a lost order one time no questions asked. This is because things do indeed get lost through no ones fault but the carriers and replacing a shipment is a acceptable loss when running a business. And, I have never found an instance where any customer has abused this practice, thankfully (hey, this is a great group of people here)! Sure, it sucks on both ends because the customer has to wait and I have to eat the cost of replacement, but that is what good customer service entails.
Please, let's do our best to make pikervs welcome here...he is a new member! Thanks to everyone who has made helpful suggestions to him.
Quote from: pikervs on May 01, 2014, 08:41:26 AM
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As per Clayford, I'm curious to know what you edited out ahah
As for my edit: I was... unkind. After posting, I read my post and said to myself, "Self, there is no way this guy is actually being the ingrate you're assuming he's being. In the process you're being quite the ass yourself. Tidy it up, give him a chance to clarify, and don't run him off". I removed my asshattery hopefully before anyone saw, and apologized for it in case they did. I was in the wrong.
Ah, so you received the PM! Ahah, no problem, I gave a look and then figured your answer out myself! In the process I stumbled upon your open projects (and one of those is incidentally a univibe) and they're quite interesting for someone who is learning Eagle like I am. I TOTALLY get the fact you want to make money off your work: you put time, effort and money on those projects.
Like I said before, maybe I'll place an order when the new projects are released, since the modulation and echo effects are the ones I'm particularly interested in and it sounds like the Zero Point Super Deluxe 2 will be a great effect. Then again, maybe not ahah. It depends on how much I have at my disposal (I have to order a speaker from Weber for a cabinet I have to build).
@Clayford
No worries. It happens to everyone. It's the classic situation where you would want to count up to ten before speaking... well, actually, typing ahah
There's plenty on places to order parts in Europe. I haven't had any difficulty finding components for any of the builds I've done. These are some of the places I've used:
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk
http://www.doctortweek.co.uk/shop/page/1?shop_param=
http://www.uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php/
http://www.banzaimusic.com/home.php
http://www.musikding.de/index.php
http://www.bitsbox.co.uk
There's also the big players like Farnell, CPC and Conrad.
You should be able to find everything through these guys and the appropriate tax is included.
Hope this list helps.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: pikervs on May 01, 2014, 10:59:50 AM
[...]
@Clayford
No worries. It happens to everyone. It's the classic situation where you would want to count up to ten before speaking... well, actually, typing ahah
Yes. I should have.
I linked to the Warhead OSP in a previous post, sounds like you found it.
Brian's Etcher's Paradise is comming soon, which should be a gold mine for you.
I feel the need to say this, because you mention money so frequently.
You
will not save money making your own pedals.
You will however learn, have fun, and have the opportunity to become a part of a rather great(IMO) community.
Minus my occasionally asshattery. :) Thanks for understanding it for exactly what it was, my filter was off and I didn't think before I posted.
Oh, it's not that I want to save money by building pedals instead of buying them, but I certainly don't want to overspend funding a hobby (even if it helps with my guitar playing) by making a big muff clone for 150 dollars :-[
Also, the ability to build effects that are no longer available or even original projects is something I deem really satisfying. That's why I do this.
Kudos to twin65. I knew some of those sites (doctortweek and musikding) but I never heard of the others; gotta go check'em out.