madbeanpedals::forum

As I am gearing up to box some projects and do demos of them, I noticed that it has been a VERY long time since I did the last YouTube video. The main thing that keeps me from doing more isn't so much the boxing up and rolling the camera, but rather all those things combined with doing artwork. Artwork adds at least 2-3 hours to everything in my experience and I just find it difficult to set aside the time to create it, etch it and then clear coat it (which requires another day at least to dry).

So, if I were to do more video demos of projects but in generic type boxes without artwork or just hand-labels will anyone care? Does the look of the demo influence whether or not you want to build something? I think maybe it does. But, I also think more video demos would be helpful in the long run.

Please add your vote and give your feedback, if any.

I voted by how I honestly think I really would react, and not my cold analytic response: I think it should be a completed project. Why? Because it just feels more like a finished project that way. It will be more striking and memorable. I also think it would generate more interest from other people looking at the project. Whether we want to admit it or not, I think many of us have a better reaction to even just a few words on a pedal than a blank enclosure.

I'll happily donate painted and drilled enclosures to a couple projects to save you some time making a decal or etched plate. :)

While I can see Jon's perspective, I'm sort of the opposite.  I just like getting the gist of the effect and it's functionality.  Especially since the finished product at my end likely won't look as good as yours  :)

Most people are listening with their ears...
So make your build as attractive as possible (sound and vision).
Sad but true: marketing is as important for success as development.

I think the most important thing is "how does it sound?"  Those on the fence are more likely to jump in to a project depending on the sound. I think those who take the time to breadboard a circuit before building are in the minority.  With that being said, an audio or video demo of the sound goes a long way.  How pretty the box is doesn't really matter as much as the overall "how can this make my guitar sound like x".  If the video is of a breadboard, or just a PCB hooked up to a testing rig it will help answer that question for those on the fence.  Just my 2c.

I just care about what it sounds like. And I think I would rather have a blank slate in my mind when it comes the look of a pedal. Utilitarian works for me.

Unfortunately, I think it matters.  Personally, I'd rather see more videos/demos if it meant less artwork but for the Madbean brand a finished product makes an impact.  Might be cool to see different forum members do the boxes/artwork!  I'd offer my talents but haven't quite acquired them...yet;)

Quote from: gordo on May 09, 2014, 04:02:53 PM
While I can see Jon's perspective, I'm sort of the opposite.  I just like getting the gist of the effect and it's functionality.  Especially since the finished product at my end likely won't look as good as yours  :)

This. Or a bit inbetween (i clicked "i dont care 'bout looks"). I think it can be clever to show a working simple design, maybe some generic "madbean project" sticker, and DYMOs for the knobs. Actually, by a simple design you also avoid to scare customers who might think "oh i can never manage to achieve that marvellous design quality". Thats also marketing.

...my 50 öre, som vi säger in sweden.

Cheers

How it sounds = PCB sales!

How it looks = Good for competitions and Picture threads  ::)

When I buy a MBP PCB, I am not saying to myself "WOW... I wonder how this is going to look in a fancy painted enclosure with aluminum knobs and artwork!"

I'd really like to pretend that I'm only interested in the sound...

But honestly my experience with demos on youtube is this:
Almost everything sounds bad (or way below potential):
Bad miked amps in bad rooms with bad miked narrators.
More often than not bad balance between music and narration.
So if the vision is not completely blurry then at least I can enjoy the good look.

Presentation does matter, but personally I prefer a demo with the amp miked, to hear how the board sounds without room coloration.

And another thing: demos usually fail to answer my most important questions:

How will this thing sound in my context (guitar, amp, etc.)
How does it feel turning these knobs and dialing in sounds?
What does this thing to how my playing feels to myself (does it make me feel slow/flat/struggling or more expressive?)

Quote from: kothoma on May 09, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
And another thing: demos usually fail to answer my most important questions:

How will this thing sound in my context (guitar, amp, etc.)
How does it feel turning these knobs and dialing in sounds?
What does this thing to how my playing feels to myself (does it make me feel slow/flat/struggling or more expressive?)

I think that we can ALL agree that these are things that we ALL face....

Bottom line is that we DIY because we LOVE it , are ADDICTED to it, and that we try to save some cash (not the case a lot of times but, some of the time)

The only real way to satisy ALL of the problems that you list above is to go to your local (insert pedal effects mom and pop or big named brand store here) and try out a commercial product. Then again... you might end up spending $250 on something that you could have built here for $40  :o

Hook the unboxed PCB up to a test rig and film the demo. I'd rather see your layout than a box anyway. That's where your artwork that matters to the product is.

i'm kind of torn.
a finished box/completed project would certainly look more pro.
but from a practical standpoint the most impt thing is to get the demo out there so your customers can hear it.
i think the latter may win out because it's diy, & the object is to sell the pcb to a builder who will then decide for him/herself what the finished product will look like.

Quote from: rullywowr on May 09, 2014, 04:10:25 PM
I think the most important thing is "how does it sound?"  Those on the fence are more likely to jump in to a project depending on the sound. I think those who take the time to breadboard a circuit before building are in the minority.  With that being said, an audio or video demo of the sound goes a long way.  How pretty the box is doesn't really matter as much as the overall "how can this make my guitar sound like x".  If the video is of a breadboard, or just a PCB hooked up to a testing rig it will help answer that question for those on the fence.  Just my 2c.

I agree with this also. Some of the demos that pushed me to build an effect were just PCBs on a test rig. I also like when I see multiple videos from different people on different gear. Saying all this really makes me hang my head since I am terrible at making demos of my builds but yet I rely on them from others. I feel like a bad person. lol

Cody

I think it might benefit everyone if you clarify whether you are talking about MBP or FunctionFX.

I still do not understand why people are saying they want a finished project, complete with artwork, pretty looks, etc. when it is to sell some PCBs? It just makes no sense to me  ???

For FunctionFX... on the other hand.... I can understand  ;)

Quote from: midwayfair on May 09, 2014, 03:51:28 PM

I'll happily donate painted and drilled enclosures to a couple projects to save you some time making a decal or etched plate. :)

Like Jon, I'm also game to PIF and donate a few powdercoated & laser engraved enclosures for new/existing MB projects so you don't have to hassle with any artwork/drilling.  It would be my pleasure.  Just hit me up via PM.     

Quote from: kothoma on May 09, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
But honestly my experience with demos on youtube is this:
Almost everything sounds bad (or way below potential):
Bad miked amps in bad rooms with bad miked narrators.
More often than not bad balance between music and narration.
So if the vision is not completely blurry then at least I can enjoy the good look.

At least they tend to be better than "live" videos of concerts, where all the bass is completely gone, and the midrange is neutered as well, with lotsa shitty-fying of the rest.

Bad miked narrators are not as bad as badly scripted, stuttering narrators, who, um, keep meandering and, um, get sidetracked into how this pedal, er, is a copy of the one a mate of theirs from, um, highschool had and, ah, they really liked his sound. There are the standard tone, gain and, um, volume, just like the pedal their Dad used to have in the, er, shed when they were kids...

You get the idea.

Quote from: RobAHook the unboxed PCB up to a test rig and film the demo. I'd rather see your layout than a box anyway. That's where your artwork that matters to the product is.

+1 on this. Plus it looks more technical :) less like a copy of Gearmanndude or Pro Guitar Shop.

Brian,

It looks like you are trying to save more time so that you invest it into releasing more products.... sounds like good business practice to me.

So, I guess your answer lies in the following question:

How many times have you seen someone say "Man, I cant wait to see how Brian's new enclosure looks." compared to "Brian, when is the next run of XXXX PCBs going to be in or in stock?"

Simple answer to that one  ;)  ;D

Artwork I don't care about, being in a plain box with knobs so it's easier to gauge how it will build up and the pots range as you adjust the knobs in the demo is nice (although not always necessary) but making it pretty? Nah...

OK entering my dog in the hunt:

I wouldn't worry about completed/pretty builds for the demos. If you go this route then you set a (unnecessarily) high standard with all the demos you are going to do in the future as well. I say its better to get the project done and record it: the sooner you do this the sooner you generate sales.

I say put the effort in a good clean demo and show off what really matters.

I think the most important thing is a fully populate pcb being demoed using good recording equipment. This shows customers that the design works and what it sounds like. It doesn't necessarily have to be in an enclosure. Madbean is about pcb boards and not about finished effect pedals. If the time saved leads to more designs then I'm sure we'll all be very happy :)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Well recorded audio sample with a simply-done mock up to illustrate the enclosure size necessary and needed controls. Video of knob twiddling is pointless.
dave

Quote from: davent on May 09, 2014, 07:10:32 PM
Video of knob twiddling is pointless.

Except that YouTube is a vast network of discovery due to the video sidebar and tags that helps bring things to peoples' attention you mean?

When it comes to demos it's all down to the sound. That's my only factor when it comes to the question 'shall I build it or not'. As when I do build it, I'll do it Juanmanstyle regardless.

Demo's for commercial stuff need to be of the finished product though.

Quote from: midwayfair on May 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: davent on May 09, 2014, 07:10:32 PM
Video of knob twiddling is pointless.

Except that YouTube is a vast network of discovery due to the video sidebar and tags that helps bring things to peoples' attention you mean?

Hi Jon,
I think Brian wants little commercials to generate interest in his PCB's,  something with impact, short & sweet, grab my attention, leave me lusting for more. Whether youtube video or just audio it needs to be well recorded, be well played, sound great, make me envious.

Show me the pcb, Brian does great layouts, show me a loaded PCB, the tiny cityscapes are works of art in themselves,  show me a mockup/cad drawing for a layout/enclosure.

Now that he has my attention i'll explore further and invest time, research it, listen to/watch more demos but he has to get my attention first, smack me in the face, wake me up.

Make sure the demo sounds great, flaunt the gorgeous PCB's, sell me fast, i'm in a hurry... after that i can waste countless hours putting a hopefully, interesting wrapper around it and then... go off and twiddle my very own knobs.
dave

My wishlist for all Youtube demos is:

-Tune your guitar
-Mic the amp
-Play at least 10x more than you talk, preferably don't talk at all
-Play something in the context of a song, with drums/bass etc.
-Make it quick, I have a short attention span  :)

I don't care how it looks.  When I watch a demo, I'm concerned with

1. the audio quality and the quality of the demo in general
2. Hearing the pedal by itself, not buried in a mix
3. Features on the pedal
4. And if possible hearing it with different gear.  (Strat and LP for example)

This is DIY, we (me and my 10 other personality) are there for the Facts not the hype.

You could demo your projects when they're still on the breadboard, with a minimum of sound quality and i would be in.

If people go OMG!!! look at that enclosure it's fantabulous instead of OMG!!!!! DID YOU HEAR THAT!!! Sounds like nothing i've heard before or is a fidel repro of what is meant to be. Peeps in the first OMG!!!! case are heading the wrong path.

Since there's more and more people building pedals for sale, loading them up with cheap Tayda parts and trying to sell them for the big bucks all the way they can find to get the cash in the easiest way is happening. I'm seeing more and more folks using clips and other demo of product to promote the sale of what they are building and that, is in no way legit to me because it's NOT your built.

Raw and efficient demo is what i'm after, where you see a simple riff/riddle playing with the knob being twisted, you clearly ear and see what it does and even better, since these are meant to promote DIY projects and not complete pedal product sale. Give the DIYer interested in the project, the opportunity to visualize what HE could do with this project once in is hand.

....but that's just my opinion, wich most of the time widely differ from common sense.;)


«Fab it and they will build it»

I like to see the pedal's settings when a demo is played.  That is the big thing to me.  Gives me an impression of the controls.
And the less exotic the guitar and amp used for the demo the better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGb2z5EoV30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGb2z5EoV30)

I did this demo trying to toe the line between showing the pedal and mixing up the knobs.  I tried to keep the jabbering to a minimum.  I used a Les Paul Special with P90's (not a good idea if you don't want to have noise) into Amplitube on the THD amp model which felt fairly real when pushed and was nice and quiet.  So it's guitar, pedal, Audio interface, Amplitube.  I used a separate mic for voice over and recorded it separately so if I buggered up either playing or talking I didn't have to start over.  I also recorded all the clips in a sitting and then edited out extraneous audio junk between settings.  Ironically the only effect I added was a panned delay to my voice on the first sentence of the intro.

So although I would rather just see a raw board with good audio, this was done to market the pedal so it had to look as good as I could make it.

This is a no brainer IMO. Everyone puts their own spin on what their final builds look like, so what would it matter, for the sake of a demo, if the pedal was pretty or not. Surely, the sound of the circuit is the priority, and whether or not, it will do what you want it to do, for your own needs, not the fact that it looks appealing for a short youtube vid.  ;)

I don't care if it's pretty. I do care if the video features a proper recording of your amp, as opposed to the audio captured by the camera in your phone across the room somewhere. I want to hear what the pedal sounds like, not what your living room sounds like. Excess room tone is the enemy of a good demo.

I would say it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. You obviously have a lot of supporters around here who will buy your projects regardless of what your build looks like. Around here, were just waiting to heat that Attack Decay in action regardless of what the box looks like. If your happy with your business model as is, I do not think it is a big deal. On the other hand, if you are looking to expand and grab new builders I do think the box matters. It's analogous to a random musician handing me a professional CD vs a demo on a blank CD they burnt off their computer. Fair or not, I think most people will be more willing to listen to a packaged demo; and I definitely fall in this category.

Now that I think about it... You could just send a bunch of proto builds to gearmandude for free and let him demo them!

Ok, Here is my 2 cents. I personally love video demos. I don't care what the pedal looks like especially if it is an inexpensive build (say $60 and under, just a random value I picked). It (unfortunately) annoys me to no end that most of the demos for commercial pedals are done with unattainable equipment to the average musician. For example: "here are a few sounds you can get from this EHX Cathedral. I am playing a 1967 Gibson Les Paul Custom through a Matchless 2x12 with Vintage Celestions and Mogami Studio grade cables". For some reason this just irritates me. ;D

For madbean projects I think it would be better to just have the board on a test bed. Since the whole point is to market the PCB to builders. With function fx I would have it a finished box since it's marketed to consumers, who in my experience, will buy a pedal just for the looks.

Also, a huge +1 on what stomptown said about the ehx attack decay. I'm still waiting to cash in my prize from march to get a board. ;D

I think you could get away with a mockup of the layout done in Inkscape or Photoshop or whatever with clearly indicated knob settings.
If it is all about audio nobody will mind seeing a slide show.
Recording gear and voice separately and mixing them afterwards could be the way to go, too.

I have seen some videos where people put knobs on the board mounted pots when testing a "out of box" PCB. It does help to see where the gain and tone setting are visually. I could see how this is useful not only as a "I wonder what this circuit sounds like and do I want to build it" but also the "I just built this circuit and does mine sound like yours" information.

Sometimes I build a circuit simply because someone says its the bees knees but I love to have a base sound to compare mine to and see if maybe I am way off on bias or maybe some wrong values.. stuff like that.

I'm rambling now..

Cody

Quote from: selfdestroyer on May 10, 2014, 07:53:51 AM


I'm rambling now..

Cody

Ha, ha! Ramble on, Bruv!

Mark

I think the pool results are already pretty clear.
IMO the audio demos are enough in order to judge the effect.
But if you are thinking about your whole business, a nicely done video with a ready box its great. as it was said before, marketing, unfortunatly, still dominates! Its always nicier to see that from a nice box come a nice sounding effect, from a unfinished one, its always a surprise :P
Cheers