Sorry if this has been covered in previous threads (my searches drew a blank) but is there a strong reason not to use solid-core cable when wiring up pedals? Are they more prone to breakage than stranded?
That is the drawback, but it strips easy and you can do precise bends with it. A lot of people here, myself included, like to use pre-bonded wire. It's stranded but the whole wire has been pre-tinned, so no stray wire whiskers and it holds it's shape really well.
I'm a big fan of the Small Bear 24ga pre-bond (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=85). In fact, I think it's the perfect stuff for pedals.
I can ask here as well as anywhere else.
I feel like buying some of those pre-bonded wires, but as i am in sweden/europe, Smallbear (and also "Barrys best hookup wires" from guitarPCB) has a crazily high shipping cost. Is there any supplier in Europe that carry something similar?
Cheers
If you find it please let me know... I've been looking all over but no dice. In the end I just order from Barry and cry myself to sleep.
SB has it in 1000' spools. Maybe it would be worth it to do a group buy of a few spools to get it across the pond and then divvy it up.
Yeah, whoever has the lowest customs duties needs to make a calculation... My Customs office post traumatic stress disorder is still rampant
*twitch*
sent from my mobile device
I've always used solid core.
In the beginning I just used whatever Radio Shack had and didn't know there was a downside to it.
Supposedly it breaks easier, but I've never had any issues with that. I sometimes have to take the circuit in and out of the box a bunch of times and the solid wire never caused me any trouble.
Meanwhile, the few times I used stranded it was a pain in the butt. Little strand getting everywhere after trimming the wire; frayed ends causing shorts, harder to deal with when having to resolder a few times.
If you use non-bonded stranded wire, and do not tin it, expect that to happen.
Quote from: alanp on May 18, 2014, 12:36:55 PM
If you use non-bonded stranded wire, and do not tin it, expect that to happen.
Definitely always tin stranded. It's worth the extra bit of effort.
OK so just for fun *twitch* I put a 1k spool in my smallbear shopping cart. If the shipping calculation is accurate it's $60 for the wire, $55 shipping and in my experience roughly 50% customs duties (and there's no way in Hades to avoid that, with it being a 1000ft spool). So that's roughly 130E for us EU folk, or 0,5E per meter.
Now to compound the calculation error, 1000ft spool weighs 2lbs8oz as stated on smallbear, so roughly a kilo. So for example, let's take say 100ft which would be 13E. Add to that EU shipping which is (I'm guessing here but I can't be too far off, given the criminal nature of my local post office) something in the neighbourhood of 5E (EDIT: 10E for a 250g package, as per the online calculator) for 100ft (30m) and we're talking (by now VERY roughly) something like 18-23E shipped from me to an EU address.
Now, how much does a 100ft of wire cost shipped from Barry to me (that is, probably any other place in EU)? According to his store $20 (discounted now, normally $22,5) for wire, $18,55 shipping, that's $38,45 all together. That's something like 28E if the package doesn't get stuck in customs (ha!fat chance!). Add to that the regular 50% duties and there you go, 40E!
So yeah... bulk would come out roughly half the price. I would probably find the time and the energy to reship to all the interested parties but right now I have no way of financing such a groupbuy. Remember, I live in the backwash of EU and we're barely making ends meet here. And that's 130E per color! I'd need to get at least a couple of colors I'm guessing, as people have their favorites...
Can we have a show of hands how many EU folk would be interested in the Smallbear prebonded wire and how much of it?
Quote from: muddyfox on May 18, 2014, 01:48:12 PM
Can we have a show of hands how many EU folk would be interested in the Smallbear prebonded wire and how much of it?
I would, for about 100ft.
I find it difficult to believe that none of the suppliers in the EU sell the prebonded cable.
Well like I said, i'd love to be proven wrong on this but I've never seen it anywhere.
sent from my mobile device
Given the overwhelming response to a groupbuy, I don't think it's gonna happen... ;D
Too bad, I could use some wire soon.
Well, IF it will happen, i can be interested. If so, i want five colors; black, red and (say) yellow, grey, green. Until then, i will stay with my solid core wire, it works pretty well too.
I could do some meters of black/red/purple wire too. In the meantime, I could ask my supplier in Europe for prebonded wire to see if it is posible to order some (and economic..)
Hell yeah! Maybe we'll finally catch a break over here....
Generally I'd be interested. It seems impossible to do neat wiring with stranded one since it doesn't stay where you want it to.
On a somewhat related note, everyone should hear the difference between run-of-the-mill cheap patch cords vs. fancy solid core ones like Evidence Audio. Solid core sounds noticeably more 3D and it's not subtle. Probably doesn't justify the ridiculous cost, but it's a lot like replacing stock pickups with fancy boutique ones like Fralin/Lollar etc. Many of us don't blink at dropping $300 for pickups, so I can't help but wonder if we would get an improvement if we used more solid core in pedals?
I think we've got about 250m of solid and probably around 150ft of ribbon, so I'm all good for about the next two years ;)
I know it's a old topic, but for those who where asking for an european dealer carrying pre-bonded wire, Banzai has it!
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Wire-0-25mm-Pre-bond-red-15m.html
This is the red one, but there's a variety of colours available!
Hope it helps :D
Here are my experiences with the stranded vs solid wire
Pros
Solid | Stranded
1. Stays put | 1. Dosen't brake easy
2. Looks good | 2. Easier to manuver
3. Can be used as | 3. Readily available
PCB mount substitute | 4. Easier to fit in tight spots (under and over jacks)
4. Easier to solder to board | 5. Easier to Tin or buy pre-bonded
5. Can be used for
Bread Board Jumpers
Cons
Solid Stranded
1. Breaks very easily | 1. If not tinned correctly can cause "cold solder joints"
2. Once bent harder | 2. Can look very messy if not zip tied or bent into place
straighten out
3. Makes me swear A LOT!!
So, I do in fact still use solid wire every once in a while (mainly for my builds or for the "PCB mound solution" for pots). I have migrated over to stranded wire for all customer builds and most others that I do. It is possible to make stranded look good. all it takes is a zip tie or just a little "influence" to make them group together. The solid wire i tried from Tayda was total garbage. The stuff from PPP was ok. It still broke a lot. I've tried other sources for stranded wire too. Tayda is total garbage don't even bother. So far Paul's is the best (Chromeshpere on this forum) Here is a link http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=125 (http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=125). I ordered one of these http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/24-pre-bond-50-ft-sampler/ (http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/24-pre-bond-50-ft-sampler/) from SmallBear but haven't run out of the stuff from Paul yet. I know Jon (midwayfair) like it and probably a few other too. Any ways, those are just my experiences. Here is a picture of solid guts and stranded guts.
Solid
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BAdbBzhWERA/U-I4nqJpwnI/AAAAAAAAAgI/R4ZHU84_BVM/s1600/IMG_1257.JPG)
Stranded
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OV-2Pp3Tauc/VBiYcRR3OrI/AAAAAAAAAmI/n4UOlRckfaM/s1600/Photo%2BSep%2B14%2C%2B12%2B28%2B04%2BAM.jpg)
Check out pre-tinned stranded from " All Spectrum Electronics' " It has worked well for me and the price is right. Haven't tried their solid.
Quote from: Hval on April 15, 2015, 02:28:58 AM
I know it's a old topic, but for those who where asking for an european dealer carrying pre-bonded wire, Banzai has it!
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Wire-0-25mm-Pre-bond-red-15m.html
This is the red one, but there's a variety of colours available!
Hope it helps :D
Great bump on an old thread with such news. That must be a new product in Banzais assortment. Really good to know.
Cheers
For the guys in Europe, if all goes as planned, my wife is visiting her sister in the Netherlands in June. I am thinking she might have room to bring a few spools of wire in her luggage with her. Of course if she has the chance of getting stopped in Schiphol and has to pay duty on the wire it may not be worth it (and with the security the way it is now days wire in a bag might cause a problem). There would have to be someone in NL who could go get the wire (my sister-in-law lives south of Nijmegen, I think around Ottersum) or someone they could ship it to who then could distribute it to those that want it. I don't know if this would be more trouble than it would be worth for you all but I would be willing to give it a try. You all could order the wire from SB, have it shipped to me (that way there is no money changing hands) and she will be there I think around mid June. Give it some thought and if it sounds good PM me. My only request would be for one person to be the focal point in Europe, kind of like a group buy, so I am not getting bombarded with emails LOL. Brian
QuoteSo far Paul's is the best (Chromeshpere on this forum)
+1 to this. I'm not super experienced in all this, but it's been the best stuff I've used. My guts are still pretty average, but it's good stuff to work with.
Quote from: flanagan0718 on April 15, 2015, 09:49:21 AM
Here are my experiences with the stranded vs solid wire
Pros
Solid | Stranded
1. Stays put | 1. Dosen't brake easy
2. Looks good | 2. Easier to manuver
3. Can be used as | 3. Readily available
PCB mount substitute | 4. Easier to fit in tight spots (under and over jacks)
4. Easier to solder to board | 5. Easier to Tin or buy pre-bonded
5. Can be used for
Bread Board Jumpers
Cons
Solid Stranded
1. Breaks very easily | 1. If not tinned correctly can cause "cold solder joints"
2. Once bent harder | 2. Can look very messy if not zip tied or bent into place
straighten out
3. Makes me swear A LOT!!
Nice looking work there.
There is a simple way around your #2 "cons" issue with stranded.
Its a bit more work, but not much once you get a system down, and can look quite nice with the right colors.
But only works with with 2 or more wires (so signal and +V wires together, I would not recommend).
Shrink Sleeving.
1. Cut wires to the proper finished length.
2. Cut pieces of shrink sleeving, about 0.5mm* or 1.0mm* in length.
3. Place pieces of shrink sleeving about an 20mm - 30mm* or so (but evenly) apart.
4. Route wires and shrink the sleeving. Or you can shrink the sleeving, route the wires and re-heat.
("Yeah and whats this with a damn 'Murican; using metric?'
ALL my pedal measurements are in metric. It just makes so much more sense to me.
*Adjust length as needed depending on finished wire length.Sorry, I don't have any pictures but it can actually look very nice.
There are tools available for cutting lots of shrink sleeving, all to the same length
Example:
(http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/too-104.jpg) (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20678/too-104/Perfect_Cut_Heatshrink_Cutter_w_Adjustable_Stop.html)
I used to use a tool just like this A LOT when I worked in the industry.
They work very well.
And I'm sure you can probably find them for less.
I've even made DIY cutters for this modeled after a typical arm type paper cutter.
Uses an easily changeable razor blade to cut. (If you build one, be VERY careful, unless you think you can be the next Tony Iommi ;D).
I'll see if I can get a pic up in the next day or two of it if anyone is interested.
If nothing else, its a useful tool for all your shrink sleeving cutting needs (geez, I sound like a door to door salesman).
Quote from: CodeMonk on April 16, 2015, 06:28:22 AM
Quote from: flanagan0718 on April 15, 2015, 09:49:21 AM
Here are my experiences with the stranded vs solid wire
Pros
Solid | Stranded
1. Stays put | 1. Dosen't brake easy
2. Looks good | 2. Easier to manuver
3. Can be used as | 3. Readily available
PCB mount substitute | 4. Easier to fit in tight spots (under and over jacks)
4. Easier to solder to board | 5. Easier to Tin or buy pre-bonded
5. Can be used for
Bread Board Jumpers
Cons
Solid Stranded
1. Breaks very easily | 1. If not tinned correctly can cause "cold solder joints"
2. Once bent harder | 2. Can look very messy if not zip tied or bent into place
straighten out
3. Makes me swear A LOT!!
Nice looking work there.
There is a simple way around your #2 "cons" issue with stranded.
Its a bit more work, but not much once you get a system down, and can look quite nice with the right colors.
But only works with with 2 or more wires (so signal and +V wires together, I would not recommend).
Shrink Sleeving.
1. Cut wires to the proper finished length.
2. Cut pieces of shrink sleeving, about 0.5* or 1.0* mm in length.
3. Place pieces of shrink sleeving about an 20 - 30* or so (but evenly) apart.
4. Route wires and shrink the sleeving. Or you can shrink the sleeving, route the wires and re-heat.
("Yeah and whats this with a damn 'Murican; using metric?'
ALL my pedal measurements are in metric. It just makes so much more sense to me.
*Adjust length as needed depending on finished wire length.
Sorry, I don't have any pictures but it can actually look very nice.
There are tools available for cutting lots of shrink sleeving, all to the same length
Example:
(http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/too-104.jpg) (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20678/too-104/Perfect_Cut_Heatshrink_Cutter_w_Adjustable_Stop.html)
I used to use a tool just like this A LOT when I worked in the industry.
They work very well.
And I'm sure you can probably find them for less.
I've even made DIY cutters for this modeled after a typical arm type paper cutter.
Uses an easily changeable razor blade to cut. (If you build one, be VERY careful, unless you think you can be the next Tony Iommi ;D).
I'll see if I can get a pic up in the next day or two of it if anyone is interested.
If nothing else, its a useful tool for all your shrink sleeving cutting needs (geez, I sound like a door to door salesman).
This looks like a great tool. Also props on the heat shrink tubing tip. Seems like a no brainier but I never would have thought of that.
big supporter of solid core wiring here...
Thanks flanagan0718
Being "in the business" for much of the last 30+ years, you learn all sorts of tips and tricks over the years.
Theres a lot of good ideas in this skull of mine.
Theres also a lot of crap.
The useless probably out numbers the useful by 1000:1 (One of my GF's, during team Trivial Pursuit games, called me "My own personal database of useless knowledge :P ).
One more specific one with the stranded wire and heatshrink I use going from DC jack to PCB...
1. Use twisted pair.
2. Terminate only at one end.
3. Cover the whole thing with a single piece of shrink sleeving.
4. Bend to taste.
5. Shrink.
Edit: I should specify that I only do that with top mounted jacks (DC jack included) with the board (or the power connection) near the other end of the enclosure).
I tend to be pretty generous with shrink sleeving since I picked up a 300Ft roll for $33 at an electronic parts surplus store in Sun Valley, Ca. ( Apex Electronics (http://www.apexelectronic.com/) for anyone in that area. Man, I REALLY miss that place).
Even if you don't live down there, they have an ebay store, but you will get MUCH better prices in the brick and mortar store.