This guy has it solved. This sounds amazing. I want a 2nd Crybaby now....
Nice! I read aomewhere that SRV used to do this live...go figure! hehe Not to mention he was a crazy fan of Jimi Hendrix and actually bought one of his wah pedals from Jimi's uncle after Jimi passed. On a related note, I can't wait to work with Bean's WeenerWah! haha That sounded weird...
wow, that would be a pretty easy mod right? i have very little experience with wahs, but it seems like you could add some extra guts and a switch and have a option for monster wah!
I've seen somewhere where you can mod to use two inductors at the same time via a switch. Don't know if that would be enough or not. I can't remember if that was the BYOC or one of the Tonepad Wahs.
I'm curious to see what the new Weener Wah is all about.
J
me too. I really love wah and havent used mine lately because I hate the tone of it. I had a vox that sounded junky and now have a Dunlop 535q and do NOT dig it. It has a ton of options and knobs but I can never get it to sound right. Then if I get something useable, it changes when I pack up.
Cant wait for the Weener Winner!!!
Quote from: Myramyd on April 13, 2011, 09:48:57 PM
I've seen somewhere where you can mod to use two inductors at the same time via a switch. Don't know if that would be enough or not. I can't remember if that was the BYOC or one of the Tonepad Wahs.
I'm curious to see what the new Weener Wah is all about.
J
that's not exactly the same thing as what this guy seems to be doing. two inductors is actually just two inductors in parallel or series, this is two filters in series, which is much different.
Quote from: sgmezei on April 13, 2011, 10:33:31 PM
me too. I really love wah and havent used mine lately because I hate the tone of it. I had a vox that sounded junky and now have a Dunlop 535q and do NOT dig it. It has a ton of options and knobs but I can never get it to sound right. Then if I get something useable, it changes when I pack up.
Cant wait for the Weener Winner!!!
I too am on a search for the "perfect wah". GGG used to have a wah mod kit. Now if you google it you can find the PCB and parts list. Sounds like my solution is to replace some of the key resistors with trim pots to dial in the tone and add a rotary switch to select different caps to vary the sweep. I'm hoping I'll FINALLY get a wah I'm happy with and with the internal controls, I won't have to worry about messing up the settings from packing up.
Im actually thinking of buying the BYOC wah kit to try it out and gain an extra enclosure. Anyone have one of them or know much about them? I know they are more exspensive....
I have a Moddable wah board from GGG someone etched for me a long while back. I probably will never get to it, so if you're willing to give me some bucks for it, I can send it to whomever would appreciate it.
I haven't built the BYOC Wah, but it looks good. I too don't like building kits anymore because they do cost a fair bit more than sourcing myself would cost.
Jacob
i'm the redneck in that video. you won't get this sound with two stock wahs, or even two normally modded wahs. ;) 8) ???
two thomas organ wahs in series. both modded.
first one, i can't remember what i did but it had to do with getting the most harmonics out of the inductor. mostly adjusting the mh and resistance of the inductor and ind>cap to ground value. each inductor has its own favorite value anywhere from 3 uf to 12 uf, you have to find the one that opens up the harmonics of each inductor. that is why many wah modders miss the boat, they aren't getting the inductor tuned. probably a treble bleed cap around the input resistor as well.
2nd wah (superpuke talking weasel) has a huge Q cap and a morley bad horsie inductor, 480 mh and 12 ohm (measured) per morleys stated spec. it is the one that has the huge vocal bark. when a good sounding wah is placed in front of it, all hell breaks loose. when combined like this, i call the whole mess superpuke talking weasel with vitamin Q injection. they are hardwired together, each with their own dpdt, each can be operated on its own but they share one battery and one masonite board with a brontoboost ahead.
each wah sounds really good on its own, but the superpuke is crazy. guys who have heard live it say it reminds them of a talk box.
superpuke on its own:
superpuke talking weasel with vItamin Q injection:
thanks for listening!
Cool, thanks for sharing Joe!
Jacob
Quote from: joegagan on April 14, 2011, 09:05:06 PM
each inductor has its own favorite value anywhere from 3 uf to 12 uf, you have to find the one that opens up the harmonics of each inductor. that is why many wah modders miss the boat, they aren't getting the inductor tuned.
Thanks for sharing, joe! Is there some math involved in the above quote or just playing with values until you find "the one?"
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joegagan/wah/?action=view¤t=DSCF5415.mp4
and then, there is the whole topic of the charge/discharge time on the cap as it relates to your wah foot, pot value, taper etc etc.
in theory, 4- 1 uf caps would do the same thing as a single 4uf cap, but it is possible that the two might actually 'feel'different tothe player due to the charge discharge time.
in a wah, the pot is causing a resistance change to two halves of the circuit. ( a pair of resistances going to each side at any given point in time) is it possible that the cap charge/discharge time and these resistances 'under the bell" are the reason that pot taper is such a touchy part of how it feels? something i have not heard discussed.
Awesome video Joe. I can tell you like wah!
Jacob
thanks, saw your add on yoututbe too, thanks for that.
coming soon to turretboard.org and diyguitarist.com, two slightly different takes on the amazing 67 boomerang by maestro. it is not your average crybaby based wah.
Boy I wish I could make a wah sing like that! That's really quite pretty Joe. I've always used it more as a utility tool really. Actually, my wah almost never goes gigging with me anymore. It hasn't had a permenant place on my board in perhaps 5 years.
I've got two wahs. A modded Vox V847 that I true Bypassed and did a couple small mods. I also have a fairly stock Crybaby from recent years. It's remarkable how similar they sound, considering the Vox is highly modded and has no input buffer...
I REALLY liked the tone of the Thomas Organ Crybaby a lot Joe. Is it easy to build one, cause I would happily start using Wah more if I had tone like that out of one...
Jacob
i like to start with regular 70s thomas wahs. i would say that 9 out of ten will have the rectangle brown tdk inductor ( most measure around 18 ohm, other batches measure 144 ohm, which is a weird discrepency). some of the tdks can actually sound great. some stock TO crybabies are perfect stock, about 90% of them need tweaking to be really great.
i prefer no input buffer, like the real vintage wahs; medium gain transistors. never played with testing different cap types. not too into the normal mods everyone does, i focus more on the inductor working well with waht's there.
another controversy is the warble, or pop in the low mid or mid, some people think it sounds like distortion, i think it is the one great feature that sets inductor based wahs a world apart from all the other filter type devices, twin T opamp filter, etc.
everlast''s song "what it's like" has a wonderful example of the warble i refer to ( listen for the electric guitar fills):
Quote from: joegagan on April 14, 2011, 09:48:01 PM
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joegagan/wah/?action=view¤t=DSCF5415.mp4
Thanks AGAIN Joe!
hmm, so if I socket the big electrolytic cap in the filter, and play around with the value, eventually i'll stumble on the idea value?
what determines that value? is it related to the resistance of the inductor?
hi. yeah, best way is like in the video where you can sweep the wah through its range while the tester is hooked up. even in the video you can hear what the various values do to the emphasis and sweep. i keep a p90 equipped guitar chained like a dog to the bench, lead pickup full on so i can strum and listen...
new video. mystery wah. modded. a few clues in the vid.
Cool stuff!!! Any more clues on what makes this work and what you did on the inside?
You seem to be the 'wah guru'....
Still waiting for the 'mojo wah ' project to drop here.... (background noise: shuffling feet, idle...)...
Cheers for demos!
it is a set of mods to a circuit i traced recently - the early 70s dearmond 1800 wa-wa.
the 1800 seems like it might be 'borrowed' from the boomerang, ( el rad inductor, + dearmond provided the enclosures for maestro - hmmm).
dearmond designed better biasing on q2 than the boomerang, and huge (2.2) caps on the pot. my mods are to sweeten it up and widen the range a little.
like the boomerang, a 25k or 30k pot is essential to the tone. larger value pots with limiting resistors get close, but still have too steep a ramp to correctly mimic the feel of the correct pot.
Just saw this thread. Joe, you're a monster with that wah. Apt title for it, too.
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good lord ! in the first video that boy needs to sit down and have another beer !
Super puke wah.....I gotta get one of mine to sound like that.
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Has anyone tried out Electro Harmonix Talking Wah pedal? Sounds a bit like that puke wah.
Damn Joe,you the man! I love my white dunlop Bass wah,but I bet you can make it do so much more. The EHX wah looks like a bad I dea and doesn't have the full range of wah the others have. It's end position is still too midrangy and what stops it from turning off if you go too far foward?
thanks guys.
ya, i need to resurrect that concept and put the dual wah into one shell. i haven't figured out the best actuation tho. would like to retain the ability to use one or the other independent as well.
i would like to try one of the EH wahs, it seems pretty cool. i always like new technology applied to pedals. someone told me the actuator inside is the same technology as the thing inside an ipad that detects position.
Quote from: joegagan on January 27, 2013, 03:09:31 PM
thanks guys.
someone told me the actuator inside is the same technology as the thing inside an ipad that detects position.
Accelorometer? Nice
As long as they keep it analog....
I wonder how you'd adjust the sweep range with an accelerometer....hmm.
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Quote from: ch1naski on February 01, 2013, 11:20:27 PM
As long as they keep it analog....
I wonder how you'd adjust the sweep range with an accelerometer....hmm.
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It's all digital so I bet it's in the programming. I still think the cons outweigh the pros in this type pedal.
So many effects have been replicated digitally. And that's not always good. The wah circuit is just so good and versatile as a analog circuit. Digital modeling and control aren't good enough yet to capture whatever it is that makes people love the wah sound and feel of the pedal.
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i have several theories about what makes a real analog inductor wah sound and feel so special.
the simple analog path is one,
the taper of the pot and how it charges and discharges the cap to ground off the inductor are another ( time factor for charge/ discharge as it relates to how the pot loads it).
pots are not all mfgr'd the same. since the pot in a wah is a divider, the R going to either side at any point may be more or less of the sum total , lots of little variables.
the distortion in the circ is a real key to the character. very easy to manipulate in bipolar trans analog, a little trickier to simulate or modulate gracefully in more complex arrangements.
I agree, in a since digital is too perfect. There's no lune noise moat of the time, like the old tape delays, it needs those circuits combined to create the character ea h circuit has. As an example, the Foo Fighters had a while album recorded digitally and trashed it to go back and record on tape to get that feeling you just can't reproduce. Just my 2k
Quote from: joegagan on February 02, 2013, 11:32:54 AM
the distortion in the circ is a real key to the character. very easy to manipulate in bipolar trans analog, a little trickier to simulate or modulate gracefully in more complex arrangements.
And to my ears, impossible to simulate digitally. (And in the end, it's only about the ears.)
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Quote from: ch1naski on February 02, 2013, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: joegagan on February 02, 2013, 11:32:54 AM
the distortion in the circ is a real key to the character. very easy to manipulate in bipolar trans analog, a little trickier to simulate or modulate gracefully in more complex arrangements.
And to my ears, impossible to simulate digitally. (And in the end, it's only about the ears.)
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Wow, I'm glad you understood that, I just looked at it,stoopid cell phone
That's not so bad...every time I try to type the word "post", my phone keyboard types "puss".:o
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did a little boomerang makeoveri call 'rusty mustard". on its way to canada as we speak!
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534979_548802338477177_1407637518_n.jpg)
Quote from: joegagan on February 07, 2013, 07:23:46 PM
did a little boomerang makeoveri call 'rusty mustard". on its way to canada as we speak!
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534979_548802338477177_1407637518_n.jpg)
I really gotta get on the ball with my wah.....
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