(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/08b5b36f.jpg)
Dual Sunkings using ICL7660SCPAZ, JRC4558DD in clean socket, JRC4558D in dirty socket, Metal Can Regulator Diodes for clipping, 2 Watt Mil Spec 10k Linear and 2 Watt Allen Bradley Type J 100k Dual Linears, toggle switchable Klon type buffered bypass, seperate true bypass toggled switched TRS loops, true bypass selector switch and True Bypass main switch. Custom made Aluminum etched faceplate and custom Painted Prism II enclosure (provided by Mike at pedalenclosures.com). This project couldn't have turned out better!
I wanted this pedal to be somewhat of a "Ground Control" for my main rig. I wanted something that I could plug my guitar into one side and my amp on the other. The loops let me accomplish that task. I currently use a TC Nova System on a full time basis. It has analog overdrive and distortion in it, but they can be completely bypass with some programming and an extra input jack that is located post the analog Dist/OD circuit. I can use one sunking to drive this unit and have another for some of my PNP type stuff I just really enjoy using. As all would know... PNP is virtually impossible to utilize without some type of buffer somewhere along the line. this unit should solve all of my woes!
Jeebus crackers that is the most awesome thing I've seen in a while. I mean....damn!
But, no guts, no glory. Post the inside Mr. Mojo!
That is intense!!
More Pics Below. Honestly, there is so much going on in here, it was really hard to keep it in order. Some of it is not in order at all! Ran out of room fellas! What else could possibly fit in here?!! Really!! If I do another it, it should turn out somewhat better. Not that I am displeased at all with this final build!
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/34169334.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/37916cce.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/3e3254f3.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/d5f8378e.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/4a6f57b0.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/96119f37.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/da571a4d.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/38b9ad1b.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/tubemann/87be3ef1.jpg)
Whatcha Think?!!!!
Sounds better than it looks!!
Sweet looks awesome.
Whoooooa!! :o
Dude, you just set the bar super high! Amazing looking build.
-Kaleb
Shtwow! :o
EPIC!!!
holy sh$%^&!!! I'm jealous of your skills and general aura of cool
:o Holy mackerel!!!!
That's insane! Nice work!
I think my head just exploded...
J
Wow! amazing :o
Sweet! Which diodes are those?
Thanks for the praise fellas! The diodes are LM313H
datasheet = http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM113.pdf
Currently fetching rediculous prices on eBay and only available on quote from anywhere else.
This diode probably provides more gain than that of an original klon. Measurement taken from my fluke's diode setting rendered about .254. My blue 1n34a's were about .120 and my glass 1n34a's with green bands are even less. BAT41 was around .150.
This particular diode put this pedal in the range of somewhere between oeverdrive and distortion in my opinion. The sustain lacked character with the 34a's and bat41's. This diode provided a hugely natural sound and even more volume than one could possibly ever need. The Gain has a tremendous range now and the clean and low end have more presence.
When I find local caches of transistors and diodes, caps, resistors, etc etc. I buy them up if I can get them for a reasonable cost. I ended up with about a thousand of these I think in original packing, NOS... along with some other metal can type diodes as well as about 150,000 other NOS vintage trannies and germanium amplifiers. Never thought about using them for clippers, but they sure fit the bill as far as sound is concerned. Not sure if I will have anything around that can sound as natural as these do. Everything else just sounded kinda Fuzzy. I have many Fuzz pedals and wanted pure overdrive that would make a tube screamer seem like a silly toy. Mission Accomplished!
When you have Sunking, why would you want TS-808? Yes, completely different birds. Although, The sunking does everything the TS-808 does, but better!! I have had many TS-808's from originals to modded ones to Keeley ones to my own personal builds. I just can't dig them at all. No offense. I guess I still need to keep looking. It will take one hell of a tube screamer to get me to pull The Sagittary of of my board!
No matter when the next Build-Off happens, I think this pedal's already won it.
Thanks alot guyz! What do you usually win in Build-Offs?
Friggin' awesome, simply is as everyone said already, nothing left to add....!!!
Also really interested in those diodes....
:o
OMG, what a beautiful thing!!! Great job, awesome! ;)
Jesus Crist Monkey Balls!
This is seriously impressive stuff :o
Well done! Way to introduce yourself to the forum ;D
Josh
Very impressive, cosmetically and functionally! Great build.
Great job, looks insanely good... I think you need a couple more wires running throught the inside though ;) J/k, awesome job man.
Dude this is incredible. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all! Any way you can make a sound sample with some of the extra mods you've included?
Sound Sample?
this... I have never done. So, at some point maybe I'll get around to making one. Wish me luck on that. I am always afraid of posting something that sound like pure junk, not because of the gear, but because of what the recording is being played through.
Any suggestions on how to do this and have a nice signal? By the way, I have no mixer, but do have a DBX mini-pre that might do the job. Got some good mics too. Why I never use them, I'll never know!
I never said it has to be superb quality!! But I can understand you wanting to do this pedal justice ;D
Lemme try to explain the chain here.
Input - On/Off - I/II - Output
Each Sunking has a toggled bypass which enables the use of its buffer (wired just like a Klon).
Each Sunking is then fed to a 3 prong Switchcraft Jack, used as a TRS Loop (Channel Insert for sound engineers), of which is engage via its own True Bypass Toggle Switch. After that, it comes back to the I/II switch.
The I/II switch has both channels wired in parallel, with the main On/Off feeding the center lugs.
The relay controls the color of the I/II LED indicator and gives you a visual confirmation of which Sunking you are engaging (I=Red, II=Green), and its power leg is wired to the 3rd pole of the I/II 3PDT switch
No magic here... just some very useful switching capabilities.
Lemme see if I can get something recorded for you guys in the next couple of days. I can't guarantee anything, but I will try. I need to overcome this demon anywayz!
My Twin is in major need of some preamp tubes. I have tons of them, but need to weed out some qualifying candidates. That project is on the docket for today.
SWEET!!!!
Cleaned up some of the wires that I was not comfortable with. After some online investigation, the TL072 is supposedly a better IC than the 4558's, so I put the back in. I think I am glad I did. Sounds a bit warmer. Also, tried the bypassed tone compared to the engaged clean setting with tone at 12 oclock. The sound is exactly the same. I'm so happy with this build. I'm having trouble putting my guitar down. Thanx madbean!
That is the most bad ass pedal I have ever seen. Id love to hear some clips.
Thanks again for the continued compliments.
Its nice to see my idea come to reality. This turned out way, way nicer than I had envisioned it!
This seems to be the case with most of the ideas I come up with for some reason.
Any rate, thx everybody!
Ok... I tried to pay hommage to all you 1n34a lovers out there. I plugged in two matched pairs and jammed on them for the last 4-5 days, then put the lm313H's back in and the difference is like nite and day. Gotta stick with the lm313H on this one. Yes, they are pricey, but you'll be happy you bought them! 8)
So where would I get those magic lm313H diodes then?!
Are you offering some as you have stacks of them as you say and what would be the price?
LM313H Inquiries?
I'm not sure how else to do this right now as I am currently in the process of establishing a completely new means of e-commerce, so my paypal and such is not yet set up. The only way I would be able to sell them at the moment would be cash or cashiers checks.
I ended up not having a huge stock like I had thought, but I do have about 150 of them. They all measure exactly the same... all from the same batch and all NOS!
Judging by the mind boggling prices on the web and their utter rarity, I would be willing to sell some of them... 5 bux a piece plus shipping would be good for me. I would really only like to sell about 50 of them total. So, once those are gone, the rest stay with me.
I have two other great metal can diodes as well.
CR100 and CR220, about 50 of each.... NOS as well. Not sure what they go for ATM.
Since these LM313H are considered to be regulator diodes, I wonder how they would serve as the Q3's diode in tonebenders?!!! Hmmmm. I smell another project!
amazing build man... that bypass switch, is it OD bypass ? just gives you a clean boost ? how did you manage that and the efx loops ?
On the original Centaur, the signal is still somewhat "Tainted" and some players like the bypassed sound too. So, incorporated that tone into the toggle OD Bypass. If you omit alll the options on this pedal and just look at the Gain, Tone, Level, OD Bypass of one channel, that is the Sunking in its entirety. The rest is modified switching capabilities. The TRS Loop option is a true bypassed effects loop following each sunking. These are dedicated to each.
Hi there Tubeman !
Awesome project ! It really looks great ! I have been reading and checking the components you have used, and you talk about some "special" diodes. The lm313H ones ::)
I really want to hear them working in my Klon, but i'm not able to find them anywhere in the world... You have mention something about selling them, and I'm interested a lot ! I wrote you a private message but I guess you haven't read it yet... Or you haven't received it (because I don't have any written messages in my outbox messages)
How can I deal with you?
Thanks ;)
Sorry for the complications with replies. There have been two people inquiring on these diodes through madbean message forum and I did not reply correctly. My apologies again! I just sent replies again, but this time I sent them through the madbean forum messaging service. 8)
You have to check a box when sending an outgoing message to have a copy sent to your outbox.
Anyone that has tried to contact me regarding these diodes, please pm me again? Also, please check your messages. I think I did it right, but we'll see! >:(
pm sent
Where do you get those flat "flying saucer" LED bezels? Do they only come in 3mm? Thanks, I've been searching for them but all the 3mm chrome bezels I find don't look that flat or wide.
Banzai is a great resource for LED Housings. They have this style for 5mm as well if I recall correctly.
Could the folks that purchased the LM313H diodes please post your results/opinions of them? I ended up buying some from Talon Electronics but won't be able to get them in use for a while. I'm sure the community here would be interested if we could improve our Sunkings!
Thanks.
http://www.talonix.com/shop/search.aspx?sortby=name&search=lm313h&sfield=keywords
they ae available from mouser but they are around $11 each!!!I think that includes the led but EEEEEESH!!!! I've been scouring the web forever trying to find some of those in the US at reasonable prices but no luck.
Quote from: JakeFuzz on May 29, 2011, 06:54:12 AM
Where do you get those flat "flying saucer" LED bezels? Do they only come in 3mm? Thanks, I've been searching for them but all the 3mm chrome bezels I find don't look that flat or wide.
Quote from: cjkbug on June 05, 2011, 05:40:17 AM
they ae available from mouser but they are around $11 each!!!I think that includes the led but EEEEEESH!!!! I've been scouring the web forever trying to find some of those in the US at reasonable prices but no luck.Quote from: JakeFuzz on May 29, 2011, 06:54:12 AM
Where do you get those flat "flying saucer" LED bezels? Do they only come in 3mm? Thanks, I've been searching for them but all the 3mm chrome bezels I find don't look that flat or wide.
Yeah I saw those mouser ones, yikes way too much money. I have been pretty satisfied with the SB and PPP inverted 5mm ones but I really would like to get some these style. Shipping from Banzai is a little pricey. Let me know if you come up on anything, ill continue the search as well.
will do. I've also been using the ones from radio shack. it's one of the few things worth while there. they are heavy duty with very nice chrome plating albeit with a very high side wall.
Ei men !! I have just placed an order in Banzai, but there wasn't LM313H there.
What have you been looking at there? Which is its european name?
I hope you will read this and may answer as soon as possible ;)
Quote from: Jimihendrix1987 on June 05, 2011, 03:35:02 PM
Ei men !! I have just placed an order in Banzai, but there wasn't LM313H there.
What have you been looking at there? Which is its european name?
I hope you will read this and may answer as soon as possible ;)
We were talking about those flat LED bezels tubeman used in his build. I don't think you will find those diodes readily available anywhere, I looked!
Oh damn ! >:(
Thanks anyway Jake ;) ... I'm being GASSED by this f$%&( diodes :(... But shipment to Spain is expensive enough >:(
There are some pretty LM diodes in talonix.com... at affordable and reasonable prices... But shipment to Europe is about 20$$ !!!
Quote from: Jimihendrix1987 on June 05, 2011, 06:01:27 PM
Oh damn ! >:(
Thanks anyway Jake ;) ... I'm being GASSED by this f$%&( diodes :(... But shipment to Spain is expensive enough >:(
There are some pretty LM diodes in talonix.com... at affordable and reasonable prices... But shipment to Europe is about 20$$ !!!
oh well... as long as they'e pretty! lol
That seems to be a good price on them especially if they are NOS ones like tubeman has. They must have bought a whole crapload of them!
Yes BigMuff... They are rated at good price (compared with ones I found out in eBay at 10€ per diode)... I wish I could buy a few with Brian's shipping costs to Spain !!
Sorry for all those outtopic comments ::)
Quote from: masterlk on June 05, 2011, 04:52:39 AM
Could the folks that purchased the LM313H diodes please post your results/opinions of them? I ended up buying some from Talon Electronics but won't be able to get them in use for a while. I'm sure the community here would be interested if we could improve our Sunkings!
Thanks.
http://www.talonix.com/shop/search.aspx?sortby=name&search=lm313h&sfield=keywords
Just bought a pair from Talon. Sorry for the false start tubeman, didn't see this link earlier.
How long does talon take to get these off? I will have my new Sunking up and running hopefully next weekend, if these diodes come in before then I can do a video demo comparison of these and 1n34a, 1n60, BAT41 and BAT46 in the circuit.
It took a week to get mine,they ship USPS. I'm in the states.
Quote
... if these diodes come in before then I can do a video demo comparison of these and 1n34a, 1n60, BAT41 and BAT46 in the circuit.
This would be AWESOME man! Please do :) Thanks!
-Kaleb
Wow that was fast! Talon shipped out this morning. Should have them in two days. Sunking will be done on Thursday night and videos on Friday, I can't wait to hear these secret "mojo" diodes!
They are not NOS. They are from a production run in 2006 week 4. That is the answer from their sales dept. anyway.
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on June 05, 2011, 06:21:45 PM
That seems to be a good price on them especially if they are NOS ones like tubeman has. They must have bought a whole crapload of them!
I have had no good experience shipping items to the other side of the pond with any economical means.
Any one have a better idea? Maybe madbean will post in here and specify how he ships to Europe, etc and keeps the costs low? If I can find the way, I'm cool with doing it.
Just never had any luck shipping overseas. I seem to always end up out of pocket.
Has anyone considered using the ICL8069? It's an LM313 clone, made by Intersil and Maxim. Same 1.2V reference, just in a plastic package. I first ran into them in college - used them as a reference for a scratch-built A to D converter for a 300 level class.
For a true LM313H clone, look at the ICL8069 in the "DCS" package, a mil 2 pin metal package like tubeman has in his pix. Racal Dana and Fluke used them by the butt loads in their DMM designs in the 80s. I've got a used one from a fluke meter - part number 508259. IIRC, Racal used the D package with the MIL burn-in designator.
Might be an easier find. Also keep in mind that National Semi used a LM1XX = Industrial/Mil (tight!), LM2XX=Industrial, and LM3XX=Commercial/Consumer Goods system. With that, the LM113H and LM213H are also alternates that could be used if found....
Hope this makes sense!
Taylor V
WRT my earlier post, an LM385BZ-1.2G is also an inexpensive alternative. 75 cents each at mouser. I sure wish they made these back when I was in school!
Anyway, you can thank my buddy Pete for the suggestion. He's an engineer with a instrumentation firm. I only test load cells and piezo amplifiers for a defense contractor.
Taylor V
Hi there,
Tubeman I've written you several private messages, explaining what I have found out talking with Brian about Shipping costs.
Did you receive them? ;)
Thx Jimi!
Jimi helped me find a good way to cross the pond!
Lm313H is $5 (selling all day for $10 a piece on ebay)
CR220 is $8 (selling for $15 a piece on ebay)
CR100 is $8 (selling for $15 a piece on ebay)
Send a cashiers check or postal order for the diodes you like like plus $3 shipping n handling to:
Stephen Nelson
8315 E Gregory Blvd
Kansas City, MO 64133
Sunking is done. Ill try and record a couple of HD clips maybe tonight and tomorrow. Didn't test any other diodes than the LM313H yet, but they sound very interesting, definitely different from what I remember my old Sunking (with 1n34a's) sounding like but that was about a year ago so I cannot be certain of the exact differences. I did the 6.8n cap substitution, true bypassed and used a JRC4558D in IC1 and an NE5532P for IC2. I am going to switch Q1 to a 5532 too and just go with that; it sounds a little too tubscreamer-ish at the moment. The most noticeable thing I can say off the bat is that there is something strange with the note bloom and attack which I am not sure can be attributed to the clippers. More investigation is needed!
I will breadboard up a set of common diodes to test out ASAP.
Definitely somethin a miss. Mine has no resemblance of any type of tube screamer circuit.
Quote from: tubeman on June 11, 2011, 03:54:39 AM
Definitely somethin a miss. Mine has no resemblance of any type of tube screamer circuit.
Yeah I am thinking bumping up the treble cap was a mistake. Did you use the JRC4558 in IC1 or IC2? Right now it sounds sort of like my Fulldrive 2 @ 18 volts. I really didn't have time to make a full evaluation, too many little kids running around or sleeping! argh, there is like a 2 hour window where I can actually play this at a good volume level.
Edit: ahh, a JRC4558D and DD. I have a ton of duals sitting around ill try in here and see whats up.
Went back to TL072's in both sockets and much happier! 8)
Great build Tubeman!
I'm about to build a Sunking and actually was asking elsewhere about a way to put in a toggle that selects between the true bypass/buffered by pass modes before I saw yours which seems to do just that. Mind giving some tips on how I could pull this off with just my one centaur?
Thanks
Pleeeeeeease?
Bump :D
Wire the pedal witht eh buffered bypass mounted to a dpdt toggle switch or stomp switch. Then, add in ur true bypass master switchto the already built pedals input and output. You should be good!
Has anyone that's used the lm313h's had any problem with them blowing? It taken any precautions to prevent them blowing?
Quote from: thetinnedman on February 24, 2012, 02:20:34 PM
Has anyone that's used the lm313h's had any problem with them blowing? It taken any precautions to prevent them blowing?
Yep I blew mine up. I was trying out the high gain mod by increasing the feedback resistor for the first gain stage. Looking at the data sheet these aren't normal diodes. They look to be a fairly complex regulation circuit. This probably lends to their unique sound but also makes them susceptible to frying when you pump too much current across them; they are now just two open circuits. I would say if you don't run any high gain mods you should be fine. Mine were great on the stock values. But for now I have settled on a 1N695 and a BAT85, sounds just as epic IMO.
I don't plan on modding the pedal at all. Im using a vero layout from Sabro tone to do the build. I just really liked the fullness of the lm313hs but I will be using good portion of the pedals gain. May try to throw in a clone of the zvex SHO I built. Don't know how well they'll sound together tho.