I got the etching itch bad!
Decided to verify ALL of the Etcher's Paradise projects (except the one already verified.)
Plugged in the etching tank and etched all the boards tonight.
Plans for tomorrow night: Drilling, liquid tin plating and silkscreen.
(Yes I like to add a silkscreen to my etched boards. Made them from the PDF using Inkscape, pretty tedious....but it's done)
Will report my progress in this thread.
Should have takin' pictures >:( ........ tomorrow.
dude that's awesome
Noice - i cant wait to see your etcheszsss
Crazy idea, if you want leave delays to me :)
Apologies if its common knowledge but how vital is the liquid tin plating of the traces? Ive etched boards but never plated thats all.
Helps prevent oxidation and promotes easier soldering.
Is it needed? Not at all. But I have a big bottle of the stuff and it takes 5 sec.
Same as silkscreens.......I have a perfectionist issue. :'(
Even tried doing my own solder masks, but never found anything satisfactory. (The perfectionist thing again!)
I know there is that laminate solder mask thing, but it needs a laminator and the stuff is expensive. (Oh yah, I'm also cheap. That's another of my issues.)
Quote from: brejna on February 16, 2016, 10:42:55 AM
Crazy idea, if you want leave delays to me :)
If you go for the Aquaboy-BL that would be great (I don't have any BL3208 on hand right now.)
As for the Leviathan, I already have plans for this one. Tap version with LCD display. (To many ideas!!!)
hey Alain, im waiting for your Leviathan ideas
still search for delay who not too much coloring tone
Quote from: zombie_rock123 on February 16, 2016, 01:29:13 PM
Apologies if its common knowledge but how vital is the liquid tin plating of the traces? Ive etched boards but never plated thats all.
I find spraying a coat of lacquer works better. For me the Liquid Tin is no better then leaving the copper bare, it too oxidizes and makes soldering difficult unless soldered to right away, no difference. The lacquer seals the copper and vaporizes on contact with the hot iron.
I've had boards sit empty for years with the lacquer coat, populated and soldered as easily as freshly polished copper.
dave
Any particular type of lacker?
Whatever i have on hand and am using to clearcoat the enclosure. Very light mist coat is all you. Using a waterborne lacquer these days but before that used a Canadian Tire brand, Armourcoat or something like that. Very, very light coat.
dave
Can't wait to see how you get on with these! Really want to hear what the Leviathan sounds like compared to the Wampler one. I'm going to try it in SMD, and see if I can get it into a 1590A.
Quote from: davent on February 16, 2016, 08:45:34 PM
Whatever i have on hand and am using to clearcoat the enclosure. Very light mist coat is all you. Using a waterborne lacquer these days but before that used a Canadian Tire brand, Armourcoat or something like that. Very, very light coat.
dave
What about polyurethane or acrylic.....ever tried these?
OK, got all the boards trimmed and drilled tonight. That's a lot of holes!
Did not get as far as I wanted 'cause I spent of couple of hours outside dealing with the over 20 inches of snow we got today!
Thank God for snow blowers.
Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to put my silkscreens on, skipping the tinning and going to try Dave's lacquer tip.
If all goes well, might even have time to start populating some.
OK Maybe I should rename this thread to "Man vs Snow"
Didn't do as much last night. Spent a couple of hours attacking that 3 feet high, heavy snow bank the plow left for me. And then helped my snowblower'less neigbor takle his. Then I was ..... flushed!
Applied my silkscreen to a couple of boards.
Fun experiments applying silkscreen:
1. I did a couple of boards the old way, toner transfer from photo paper. Works great as always by my photo paper leaves this pesky white residue that takes me for ever to rub off.
2. Tried applying toner on normal paper using GAC-200 (à la devant), learned that you need to do this BEFORE drilling.
3. Tried applying toner on normal paper using aceton (don't remenber where I learned this one) You put the paper toner side on the board and wet with aceton, the toner melts on the board. It "works" and it's fast, if you are not picky......I am!
I'm ordering that yellow transfer paper to see if I can get the same great results as with my photo paper (but without that white residue issue.)
I'm glad aishabag is doing the Horndog, 'cause for some reason this board is missing from my stack of boards. I know I etched it....but it vanished!
I use the yellow stuff too and have had far better results with it than the blue press 'n peel (overpriced crap imho).
Just ordered some. ;)
Well Gosh! I just got some of that overpriced crappy Blue Press and Peel.
It is pretty expensive.
Haven't done any etching before.
What is the yellow stuff you're talking about?
This thread is all of the good kinds of crazy I love on this board.
OK, Since I didn't have do deal with snow today, got more time to do what I like.
After davent suggested the lacquer instead of the liquid tin plating. I decided to also try other things to protect the copper side from oxidizing .
I tried:
1. Fast drying acrylic satin clear: Smells good, dries in 1 min = Solders not to bad but will need to compare to others.
2. Polyurethane satin clear: Don't know......not dry yet!
3. Varathan Diamond gloss clear: Don't know......not dry yet!
4. Future floor polish (this stuff is acrylic base): Smells good, dries in 1 min = Solders very easy (probably 'cause it's easier to apply a thin coat.)
5. Will have to purchase and try actual lacquer.
Will have to do one with tin plating like I usually do in order to do a good comparaison.
Not sure how well any of these will actually help with oxidation in the long run?
Started building the 424 and also the BFC. Will have to order soon, I'm running out of stuff!
I'm also taking build notes as I'm going along.
OK got to go.......the wife want's to watch TV now.
i got like a huge box with dupont soldermask, its quite amazing and easy to use, i you want to try i can send you some but im not so sure how long it can take since i live outside usa
Solder mask is to prevent the solder from going where you do not want it to go, you don't want that, that's not what you're trying to do with the lacquer.
dave
I use the Kontakt PCB protector SK10. It can take a day to dry but works beautifully
http://www.mantech.co.za/ProductInfo.aspx?Item=90M0056
Peter
Quote from: blearyeyes on February 18, 2016, 10:14:33 PM
Well Gosh! I just got some of that overpriced crappy Blue Press and Peel.
It is pretty expensive.
Haven't done any etching before.
What is the yellow stuff you're talking about?
Wouldn't say it's crappy.... Just an expensive product. (Google will give you all the info you need for your first etch.)
The yellow paper you can get on ebay for like 2$ for 10 sheets. Search for "toner heat transfer paper"
Quote from: copachino on February 19, 2016, 04:07:59 AM
i got like a huge box with dupont soldermask, its quite amazing and easy to use, i you want to try i can send you some but im not so sure how long it can take since i live outside usa
From Honduras to Canada, postage might be pretty high?
But would like more info on it. You have a picture, a link or something?
Quote from: alparent on February 19, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
Quote from: copachino on February 19, 2016, 04:07:59 AM
i got like a huge box with dupont soldermask, its quite amazing and easy to use, i you want to try i can send you some but im not so sure how long it can take since i live outside usa
From Honduras to Canada, postage might be pretty high?
But would like more info on it. You have a picture, a link or something?
since its just an envelope i dont think its too high but i will check out, its quite good but i dont use it anymore, i had a tutorial over here let check it out
EDIT:
here its the tutorial
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=15392.msg144910#msg144910
Sure looks interesting.
Quote from: alparent on February 19, 2016, 02:45:43 PM
Sure looks interesting.
i will cut some of the mask tonight and check out the shipping to canada tomorrow
I'm PIFing 17 sheets of the yellow heat toner transfer paper stuff to anyone in the UK/Europe. I've found a much easier way for me to create solder paste stencils so it's unlikely that I'll ever use the rest of the sheets.
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
Is shipping to Canada more then 2$ ;D
Quote from: alparent on February 19, 2016, 04:22:23 PM
Is shipping to Canada more then 2$ ;D
i guess its about 10 USD not big deal, but im no so sure how long it would take, pm your address please to get it on the way tomorrow
Little update.
OK did a bit of soldering today. Actually took a couple of pictures! (I know I like pictures, thought you might like some to.)
First, a family picture.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17624039/Etcher%27s%20Paradise/WIN_20160220_21_48_22_Pro.jpg)
Then work on the DRJR,
Inserted all of the components I presently have at hand.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17624039/Etcher%27s%20Paradise/WIN_20160220_21_09_37_Pro.jpg)
Now the bottom side!
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17624039/Etcher%27s%20Paradise/WIN_20160220_21_12_53_Pro.jpg)
Now all soldered and trimmed.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17624039/Etcher%27s%20Paradise/WIN_20160220_21_41_48_Pro.jpg)
A couple of remarks,
1. After soldering 6 boards now, I can say that applying the protective coat of clear really help with solder bridges.
2. One thing about Brian's boards is that he uses ground planes. This is a good design thing but can be a PITA if you are new at etching or soldering. Ground plane dissipates the heat a lot quicker the normal traces (this is why "thermals" are used). But if you etching is not up to par, these "thermals" are not doing the job they are suppose to do. And depending on the soldering iron you have, might be harder soldering these since the copper is stealing the heat from your iron.
3. Even worst for novice builders are solder bridges (when you solder in touching/bridging to other traces where they shouldn't. (This is one of the main failing points of novice builders.) And with a ground plane surrounding your pads ...... it's a lot harder not to bridge, specialy when you start soldering and you tend to put to much solder.
One way Brian could help is to widen the space between the traces and the plane.
You don't care about that with fabricated board because you have the solder mask. But on etched boards, more space could save a lot of people a lot of grief.
Sure hope he is reading this!
4. Finally, the drill size. Don't drill to big! The bigger you drill, the more solder you need to use, because you need to fill the gap between the copper pad and the component lead. And the more solder you use the more you risk solder bridges. Don't use to much solder, let the heat and the flux do their work!
Ok that's it for now. Said it was a little update, not a little post! ::)
Alain a #70 drill bit will cover just about everything you'll use on pedal pcb, a #64 will cover the rest such as big diodes and 22awg wire. #70 in carbide or any carbide bit is super delicate, have to work with care and attention.
Boards are coming along nicely!
dave
Thanks Dave,
Where do you get your drill bits?
I used #68 but broke my last one doing this :'(
Add to finish with a #65.
I also use carbide. They are more fragile, but pour HSS bits don't stand a chance againts FR4 boards.
Great update, you've done a lot of work on them very quickly (which is good as I'm following this thread!
Are you going to box them all up as well or just the ones that you really like?
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
Quote from: stevie1556 on February 21, 2016, 10:18:58 AM
Great update, you've done a lot of work on them very quickly (which is good as I'm following this thread!
Are you going to box them all up as well or just the ones that you really like?
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
Yes, things are moving along pretty good. (I'm having a blast doing this.)
As to if I'm going to box them all? I don't know? Haven't planned that far. ???
Was thinking of putting them all in one big enclosure and calling it "Paradise". ;D
Hi Alain, i had a confederate in Pennsylvania who i'd send difficult, (as in crazy expensive to import, crazy minimums, etc.) orders to so bought a bunch of carbide bits from DrillBit City. My brother was frequently going down to visit him so easy to get from Penn. to me. Getting to the last few of those bits, last time i checked around, Small Bear looked like the best option, he had the selection and you can buy as few or as many as you want and it's not a special order from another place you have to pay shipping from, tack it on an order for many other things that are likely needed.
dave
Quote from: alparent on February 21, 2016, 04:16:39 AM
One way Brian could help is to widen the space between the traces and the plane.
I hear you, but it is unlikely. The isolation pour is 28mils on all the EP stuff and it would be difficult to get it much wider than that without having to make some compromises on PCB size. But, the nice thing about single sided designs is that it very easy to hit a spot with some solder wick if it looks sketchy.
Quote from: madbean on February 21, 2016, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: alparent on February 21, 2016, 04:16:39 AM
One way Brian could help is to widen the space between the traces and the plane.
I hear you, but it is unlikely. The isolation pour is 28mils on all the EP stuff and it would be difficult to get it much wider than that without having to make some compromises on PCB size. But, the nice thing about single sided designs is that it very easy to hit a spot with some solder wick if it looks sketchy.
Brian, could it be possible to get the soldermask layer??, im tying to give away my soldermask since i got like too much and it was supposed to be used by 10-2015, so im trying today if the mask its still good, but if its good, the soldermask layer will be so helpful
No I'm not on drugs, and I know this is an unreasenoble demand.
I for sure don't want to sound ungratfull for all the tromendus work Brian is putting into this.
But having access to the eagle files would allow us to do what ever modifications, layer extractions we wanted without asking Brian all the time.
Quote from: alparent on February 22, 2016, 04:45:04 PM
But having access to the eagle files would allow us to do what ever modifications, layer extractions we wanted without asking Brian all the time.
I understand where you are coming from but this is not something I am willing to do. Releasing the Eagle files isn't
just releasing them to the members of this forum, it's releasing them to the entire world. Too much opportunity to abuse.
On the positive side, if you verify all those projects (or at least build them) I've got something extra special to send you to say thanks :)
I'm glad to see that others are also verifying projects.
So I won't have to verify them all after all.
Putting the ones already verified aside and concentrating on the others.
Got a workout bench and powerblocks last weekend, so this week was "make space for this new stuff someware"
Did have time to build a bit. Waiting on parts.
Just to say that this project of mine is stile going on.
Now that Brian stopped posting new projects, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel ;D
Between bathroom renovations and weekends at the camper, thing or slowly getting done.
Any updates on your epic journey alparent et al?
It is moving along ..... slowly.
Finished the basement bathroom, now half done with the main floor one.
(NEVER renovate 2 bathrooms at the same time! Very stupid idea!!!)
I'm also out at the camper most weekends (I REALLY like pedal building ...... but on the lake fishing tromps everything!)
Most of the boards are like 90% done. Some are missing one or two componants (created a spreadsheet to track that).
Hi will need to place an order for those parts soon.
Then it's simply a question of wireing the pots and switches, then hook them up to my testing rig.
Not sure I'm going to box all of these? Might sale some of them pre-populated?
Will sure post more progress pictures as I go along.
Thanks for asking. I'm so slow at this, wasn't sure nobody cared anymore!?
Any board in particular that was interesting you?
I hear you on the basement bathroom reno. Never again will I use a diamond saw to cut concrete in an enclosed space...that was an experience.
I have the fencepost on the bench now as my first etched board build. I also have my eye on the boneyard. From reading around, it seems these projects have been build plenty of times, but its a lot of vero builds and I cant recall if I came across a verified etched layout build yet.
Keep us posted on the sale.