This is Space Echo #2 for me, and just like the first one, I picked it up in non-working condition.
The mechanicals are fine. Motor is strong and the tape transport seems to operate normally. I haven't even had a chance to plug in a guitar yet, but the previous owner told me he gets dry but no wet output. That goes for both echo and reverb, so I'm thinking it is highly unlikely that the record head (or all playback heads) AND the reverb tank are both bad. So my theory is that it's "simply" a problem with the mixing. Now, that could turn out to be something really hard to find, but I'm hopeful that it will be relatively simple.
Right out of the gate, here are the main issues that I can see:
• Tapehead assembly metal cover is missing
• Mic input jack is missing
• All of the tape bay thumb screws are missing (I have replacements)
• One of the hinges is an ad-hoc "redneck engineering" replacement
• Some of the chassis mount screws are missing
• Front faceplate is bent
Most of that is cosmetic and can be fixed easily or doesn't need to be. On the plus side, it does have a fully working rear power cable door, which my other unit is missing (and they are hard to find and not cheap).
So this is the first of several posts on my progress. More pics to follow in a day or so after I've had more time to look it over and asses the weaknesses.
(http://i.imgur.com/yEHLnhC.jpg)
Actually looks a lot better than I envisioned. I'm really interested to see why signal is not passing. What ever the problem is, still looks like a fun project.
Cody
Hot damn, man! Good luck!
Subscribed
Eyes pinned open.
Looks awesome.
Too cool.
How do you run up on these? Are you scouring the webz I guess or do you just get lucky? or?
I would imagine Craigslist would be a good place to find stuff like this. I watch it a lot of odd guitars (70's Japanese and parlors at the moment). In fact, I just pointed a local synth head to a guy selling an Arp Odyssey. If you're patient and consistent you can find some amazing things there.
Cool project!
Quote from: TNblueshawk on April 06, 2016, 08:28:48 PM
How do you run up on these? Are you scouring the webz I guess or do you just get lucky? or?
First one I just saw for sale over at I Love Fuzz, and the guy happened to live within driving distance. So I sort of had the advantage over other buyers. Just worked out.
This one was a bit different. I posted some info about fixing up the first one at TGP, and this guy stumbled onto this unit. So he asked me for some tips, which I gave him. Then months later, he got in touch with me to see if I wanted to buy it. I had no intention of picking up another one, but the price was just too tempting.
I have confirmed it: there is no wet output whatsoever. ;D
So either the dry isn't getting to the effect side, or the output of the effect is not getting mixed back out. Obviously. ;)
A few more pics:
Tolex rip
(http://i.imgur.com/rZHky3G.jpg)
Front panel lit up
(http://i.imgur.com/BDVigYr.jpg)
Ghetto solution for missing thumb screws:
(http://i.imgur.com/RC9tzlC.jpg)
Tape head assembly sans cover:
(http://i.imgur.com/3cul8y7.jpg)
Looking better already with replacement thumb screws (and now the tape is threaded correctly and not shiny side out):
(http://i.imgur.com/j4r63C0.jpg)
..hi culturejam...any chance you have gut shots or or trace of the RE201 you may want to share..its the only thing im missing on my data files...my friend won't ket me touch his precious Space echo...lol...tnx in advance
The schematic is in the service manual, along with a functional block diagram and breakouts of all the PCBs. You can get it here: http://www.echofix.com/pages/space-echo-service-manuals
Here's a gut shot of my other unit (that works). If you want more, I can take some when I get this other unit cracked open this weekend.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh218/reverse_engineer/RE201-9_zpsxv69dcgx.jpg)
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh218/reverse_engineer/RE201-2_zpsl0ve1oty.jpg)
..oh that was cool..tnx...i definitely want to see more...can't wait to see your 2nd RE201 up and running in no time...good luck...tnx again, culturejam
I got some time last night to do some audio probing. So far, audio probing has been my #1 use of a looper pedal. ;D
So I know that the input signal is making it through the Echo/Normal switch to the main Echo Board (that's the name in the service manual) and the signal is reaching the record head. It's also going as far as the reverb driver input. So the input side of things seems okay.
I also blew out the Mode switch assembly with compressed air and hit it with some contact cleaner. No change in operation.
I'm starting to think the problem is the Mode rotary switch. I think this because it is this switch the determines if any output comes from the playback heads and the reverb sub-circuit. If the switch is dead, all you get is the input piped through preamp and then sent through the output buffer. The signal goes to the record head and reverb, but the playback heads and reverb output never get routed to the output if the switch is bunk.
Since there is no echo OR reverb, it seems more likely to be the switch. It's entirely possible that the reverb tank died AND the record head died, it just seems less likely.
Next steps:
1. Verify the reverb tank from Space Echo #2 is operational by hooking it up to my working Space Echo #1
2. If it's not working, hook up the known good reverb tank from SE #1 to SE #2 to see if it does work
3. Demagnetize and clean heads on SE #2, and replace with fresh tape loop (just good practice).
I'm sort of hoping that the tank and record head are funky, because those will be easier to replace than the rotary switch. I'm not even sure anyone sells a replacement, although I suppose I could possibly rebuild the existing switch. But man, the wiring arrangement on that thing is gnarly. :o
Quote from: culturejam on April 19, 2016, 01:32:43 PM
I'm sort of hoping that the tank and record head are funky, because those will be easier to replace than the rotary switch. I'm not even sure anyone sells a replacement, although I suppose I could possibly rebuild the existing switch. But man, the wiring arrangement on that thing is gnarly. :o
Its seems crazy to think that but I thought the same way when I was reading your post. lol
Cody
Quote from: selfdestroyer on April 19, 2016, 04:19:05 PM
Its seems crazy to think that but I thought the same way when I was reading your post. lol
I emailed EchoFix to see if they had any spare switches from their boneyard. If I can get an exact replacement, I can use my good Space Echo as a guide to rewire it.
Failing that, this should work:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Grayhill/71C30-1BC-1AL/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvNbjZ2WlReYhndqMY8foDI6mKDBctiJLI%3d
But it will take some head-scratching to figure out what goes where. I'm dangerously "slow" at understanding switches.
One thing I forgot to mention:
When changing modes, there is an audible pop in the audio. Kind of like bypass switch pop.
nothing to add but definitely excited to see your progress!
That VU looks like electric sex in the little window.
I like that the reverb tank is manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton.
More test results:
• Can confirm that the reverb tank on SE #2 is functional. It worked fine plugged into SE #1.
• I unmounted the Mode rotary from the panel and hit it with more contact cleaner and inspected it. It seems to be functioning properly in the mechanical sense.
• The wire from the rotary's terminal that connects the reverb and delay output back to the main board mixer is intact and has full continuity.
• Audio probe indicated no singal on that wire
Next steps:
– Audio probe the output of the reverb tank directly
– Probe SE #1 to see where wet signal shows up and then compare with SE #2
Quote from: culturejam on April 22, 2016, 02:39:42 AM
More test results:
• Can confirm that the reverb tank on SE #2 is functional. It worked fine plugged into SE #1.
• I unmounted the Mode rotary from the panel and hit it with more contact cleaner and inspected it. It seems to be functioning properly in the mechanical sense.
• The wire from the rotary's terminal that connects the reverb and delay output back to the main board mixer is intact and has full continuity.
• Audio probe indicated no singal on that wire
Next steps:
– Audio probe the output of the reverb tank directly
– Probe SE #1 to see where wet signal shows up and then compare with SE #2
You are dug in like a tick on a hound dog. Great read on troubleshooting.
Quote from: TNblueshawk on April 22, 2016, 04:28:21 PM
You are dug in like a tick on a hound dog. Great read on troubleshooting.
It's kind of fun to run down the list of tests to narrow in on the problem. Hopefully I get to the root of the issue soon. It's fun for a while, and then it just becomes depressing.
Resurrecting this thread from the dead...carrying on the torch
The RE-201 continues its journey...
I met up with CJ to buy the unit in this thread. It was great meeting CJ and buying the RE-201 was a bonus :)
I did get a chance to pull the unit apart and continue some troubleshooting on it.
I checked some things like making sure the tape head oscillator circuit was working, checking some voltages through the circuit, and running a square wave through it and oscilloscope probing.
I then used the mic input to do the audio probing as the instrument input wasn't strong enough. When listening with an audio probe I do have some wet signal on the echo volume pot. The most I get is a weak reverby/slight slapback delay that you can get to warble by adjusting the repeat rate pot. (probing the echo volume pot lug) The signal is then reduced to nothing as it works through the rest of the circuit.
There is absolutely no feedback and it can't self-oscillate.
I'm not sure that all the replay heads/switch are actually working but that's something to figure out later. Unfortunately, all the heads are fairly worn from years of use, but they may still be functional and it is encouraging that there is some recorded wet signal at all.
I'd like to do some more testing but I'm fairly certain the next step is a full recap and pot cleaning/checkup. There are many electrolytic caps in the signal line on these. I haven't looked up when this one was built but I'm sure it is older than my other RE-201. The service manuals are pretty hard to read for the component layout etc from years of photocopied copies so I will do my best to document the recap as the info on the net is absent.
It's a bit of a project so I'm sure progress will be slow as I have actual "work" to take care of ;)
Josh
Quote from: gtr2 on June 18, 2018, 01:50:56 PM
Unfortunately, all the heads are fairly worn from years of use, but they may still be functional and it is encouraging that there is some recorded wet signal at all.
Huh. I guess I was wrong about that detail. My recollection from last year is that they looked very similar to my other unit, which sounded amazing. But, there's a lot of sleepless toddler nights (and a lot of beer) between then and now. Sorry about that. ;D
Haha, no worries! It was more just trying to make an observation. I've seen worse and my comparison is against ones I have, so I got lucky on those I think, which look practically new.
I'm following this resurrected thread closely as my RE-201 has the same problem - only dry output, no reverb or echo. I cleaned the heads, relubed the roller shaft, and loaded a new tape but haven't had the chance to dig into the electronics yet. I'm really hoping it's something as simple as a bad connection...
Please keep us posted on what you find with yours!