Hey Everybody!
Am still in the midst of ordering everything I need for all the boards I ordered in large, bulk orders. It's a scary thing for sure.
My first question is: What differences can be found in the properties of electrolytic caps? I'm wanting to order everything from Mammoth as they offer the Nichicon 'audiograde' electrolytic caps, but was unsure of the difference. The only things that have convinced me these caps are better are a few different threads on different forums (diyaudio, diystompboxes) that speak of these caps as if they're obviously the better option. The other thing that's convinced me is that I've busted open all my pedals since starting this venture and they all seem to have a few of these same electrolytics in there..Fulltone, MXR, EHX, etc..
My second question is: Being that poly caps have been proven better for audio circuits, why wouldn't they be used in all areas where caps are needed as opposed to the variation found in these and other builds? Piezoelectric effects of ceramics being the particular curiosity here. What's the deal with how each type, make, and model effect tone?
Thanks in advance everybody. You guys are amazing. :D
Regards,
Tyler
In the specific case of electrolytic vs film caps, it's physical size. Simple as that. 1uF and upwards box caps get pretty big, compared to the other components.
Quote from: alanp on December 07, 2016, 05:33:16 AM
In the specific case of electrolytic vs film caps, it's physical size. Simple as that. 1uF and upwards box caps get pretty big, compared to the other components.
Thanks for that. Speaking of size - In ordering these Nichicon Muse caps, should there be a noticeable or dooming difference in size between the 35v and the 100v?
Regards,
Tyler
Quote from: AwesomeTyler on December 07, 2016, 06:20:24 AM
Quote from: alanp on December 07, 2016, 05:33:16 AM
In the specific case of electrolytic vs film caps, it's physical size. Simple as that. 1uF and upwards box caps get pretty big, compared to the other components.
Thanks for that. Speaking of size - In ordering these Nichicon Muse caps, should there be a noticeable or dooming difference in size between the 35v and the 100v?
Regards,
Tyler
Yup!
Higher voltage means bigger capacitor. The footprints for electrolytic caps on most DIY PCBs are 5mm or 6.3mm. A bigger cap will be tough to fit. Check the diameter before you buy. General rule of thumb is 25V electrolytics.
Bummer :(
I've already made one of my orders with Mammoth, which included a handful of caps. From memory, they only had 100v currently available, so I'll probably be watching those collect dust for the foreseeable future. All's not lost, however, I only ordered a few different values for the very purpose of safeguarding myself from.....myself, given the likelihood of screwing it up. NAILED IT.
That said, doesn't anyone have any experience in-particular with these caps and how they fair comparatively to, say, the "generic" elecrolytics offered by Small Bear and the like? What is it about them that have people so certain that they're worth buying for audio circuitry over others? What would make the difference in tone and why?
Regards,
Tyler
The caps may be ok. Once you populate the board see if it fits between the surrounding components and if it does it will be ok.
Next, If you have a lot of projects you might want to order parts in bulk from Mouser, Aliied, Arrow, etc.... electronics distributors. Caps, resistors, IC's should be much cheaper from them. Arrow is offering free shipping the rest of this month but their site is a real bitch to navigate around but if you have the patience you can find really good prices. Nothing against Mammoth (I made a small order last week) but you can get a much better deal from the places mentioned above. Good luck with your builds.
the "what parts should I buy" at Aion Electronics is really helpful.
Mouser is great, but there is a bit of a learning curve to decode it, since they sell so much stuff
Quote from: AwesomeTyler on December 07, 2016, 04:23:38 PM
That said, doesn't anyone have any experience in-particular with these caps and how they fair comparatively to, say, the "generic" elecrolytics offered by Small Bear and the like? What is it about them that have people so certain that they're worth buying for audio circuitry over others? What would make the difference in tone and why?
Regards,
Tyler
There's a lot of debate about the "sound" of caps in audio circuits. IMO, for pedal work, it's not going to make any difference. It would be very difficult to tell the difference between a generic electrolytic and a more expensive one. Others may disagree. It's not a bad idea to experiment and judge for yourself.
It's no where near as simple as "poly = best." Uncle Doug on YouTube has a brilliant 3-parter about capacitors in audio circuits that explains a lot about construction and the right cap for the right job. I highly recommend it. Every form of dielectric is better than another at something.
And at the end of the day, most of the ju-ju pedals that hoarders collect used the cheapest caps available that still met spec.
This is for guitar pedals, not for the London Philharmonic.
What you will get from an audio grade electro is a more beautiful gutshot and that internal voice that says "this box has magic inside." I love the look of some of those fancy caps. I wish F&T made submini radial caps.
Welcome, by the way! It will be fun to see your builds.
Quote from: Leevibe on December 08, 2016, 03:18:36 PM
What you will get from an audio grade electro is a more beautiful gutshot and that internal voice that says "this box has magic inside." I love the look of some of those fancy caps. I wish F&T made submini radial caps.
Welcome, by the way! It will be fun to see your builds.
Thank you! Can't wait to start shelling them out. :)
Quote from: BrianS on December 07, 2016, 06:45:50 PM
The caps may be ok. Once you populate the board see if it fits between the surrounding components and if it does it will be ok.
Next, If you have a lot of projects you might want to order parts in bulk from Mouser, Aliied, Arrow, etc.... electronics distributors. Caps, resistors, IC's should be much cheaper from them. Arrow is offering free shipping the rest of this month but their site is a real bitch to navigate around but if you have the patience you can find really good prices. Nothing against Mammoth (I made a small order last week) but you can get a much better deal from the places mentioned above. Good luck with your builds.
The only thing that shews me away from Mouser is the fact that they, for whatever reason, seem to have 4 different types of every single product I'm looking for all the way down to the model. Much like my current cap situation, it freaks me out to think I could order something from Mouser titled and described exactly like something I'd buy from Mammoth or Small Bear, only to receive something with different dimensions (which I've found to be the typical reason for the multitude of different models on Mouser).
I'm a big fan of those little monolithics simply because of their size and non polarity, bit on the expensive side comparatively though.
QuoteMouser is great, but there is a bit of a learning curve to decode it, since they sell so much stuff
Yep! They have so many parts available that you really need to know the reference of the component you are looking for. Also, look carefuly whether they have your component in stock or not, because it can take a few months before they have it back in stock for you.
One of the nicest parts of mouser is its customer service, I have recently called them to change a reference that was not available, they have a French-speaking customer service, and I could change the reference in 5 minutes, and get my components 2 days later!
QuoteI've found to be the typical reason for the multitude of different models on Mouser
Sometimes, it is simply the way components are packed. For instance, I recently ordered vishay CMF55 resistors, and each values had at least 3 different references on mouser. It was simply dependent on how components were sold: bulk, full or by 1000.
If you look carefully at the reference and compare it to the datasheet, there is no way you receive something you did not expected to get. It takes a bit of time to learn though.
Regarging electrolytic capacitors quality, Nichicon are indeed good. I also use Panasonic FC series.