Teaser build ;)
Prototype board complements of Brian! This build is a beast. Fired up on the first try and I really took my time checking every resistor and cap on this build. Enclosure is a 125-BB with an etched aluminum plate. It sounds awesome and the modulation can get real crazy! Genuine mn3005's in their finest circuit. It's a buffered bypass but it sounds great at the end of my chain. Thanks again Brian!
Here it is! Enjoy :) Josh
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6089/6051045069_f6a0d2279b_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31503679@N02/6051045069/)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6194/6051045081_a4331c4619_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31503679@N02/6051045081/)
EDIT: Rebox due to issue in lower post
& Demo http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=2914.0
iPhone pic to be replaced in the next couple days
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6168/6261625967_9bcdf6f535_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31503679@N02/6261625967/)
Awesome stuff, looks good. Really excited about this one.
Wow, great job! I can't wait.
Are those 2 .5W or 1W resistors?
Does it use short pin pc mount pots?
thanks
I used these. Steve didn't have all the values I needed in the smooth shaft so I went with the knurled.
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=1058
The two large resistors are 1W. When sourcing I'd look for the smallest 1W resistors you can find. Mine were a little to big but I made them work.
Josh
1/2watt is okay there, too!
Wow Josh!! This is beautiful!! I can't wait to hear this thing!! hehe (hint ;)) Love everything about it...the etching, the sparkly finish, the insides....perfect pedal man...
-Kaleb
Very clean job! Can't wait to get the pcb... Do you plan to make a demo?
It's official. I'm going to have to make a larger effort to find a pair of MN3005 chips.
Jacob
sweet etching!
a dirtbag's definitely on my (too long) to do list ;D
Quote from: jkokura on August 17, 2011, 03:54:27 PM
It's official. I'm going to have to make a larger effort to find a pair of MN3005 chips.
Jacob
me too! I want to build this thing SOOO bad.
Damn that looks good. Nice and tight in there. Do you think it is possible to fit in a 1590BB? Or should we plan on something deeper to get those jacks to fit like a 1590C or a 125BB? Is that the PPP custom aquamarine finish? Looks very good.
I'd go for the 125-BB or 1590C. I had to file the some of the fiberboard off my jacks for clearance. I used a 125-BB I could have made them fit like Brians but I opted to put the pedal vertical for pedalboard space. Either way it is REAL TIGHT and insulation was required to prevent shorts Planning the enclosure drill was time consuming and challenging. The revised version will have a little bit more room for clearance. If I build another I'm sticking it in a 1790 so I can add a feedback switch and any other mods like expression jack etc...
The enclosure is aqua illusion. It sparkles in photos but in real life it looks very dark.
Josh
Without dropping the F bomb all I can say is: ____ dude, that is so ______ awesome.
The revised version (not the one shown) will make an easier time of a 1590BB. I don't think it's going to present too much of a problem.
This look so PRO.
I would not mind some audio samples :)
'scuze me while I clean the drool of my computer.
WOAAAH! :o :o
Awesome :)
:o :o :o That pedal looks so bad ass, i cant stand it! I am so stoked for this project. Its going right to the top of my priority list.
I'm super glad I grabbed some of those Mn3005's for this. Yout build looks soo good. Where did you get the place you etched for the top from?
I'm hoping this project will actually replace my 80's DMM on my pedal board. :)
I'll take the DMM when you're finished with it.
No seriously. I've been jonesing for one for sooooo long.
Jacob
supercool, so it's finally happening, awesome!
so now we wait for the v3205s version. is it near?
i really want one of those..
Josh, you kiss-ass mother***!!!
Just kidding. Kudos on the build and back-stage pass--you deserve it after the aquaboy work you've done AND managing the MN3005 treasure hunt.
Have you an authentic EHX DMM to A/B your dirtbag with?
Quote from: pietro_moog on August 19, 2011, 02:07:51 AM
supercool, so it's finally happening, awesome!
so now we wait for the v3205s version. is it near?
i really want one of those..
The proto board for the v3205 will be here in a few days. That and the phaser project are my two top priorities now.
Here's a preview of the v3205 version.
[attachment deleted by admin]
That is one cool looking pcb! 8)
So in a nutshell... why do we prefer MN3005s to V3205s?
Is it mojo? is it sound? Something else?
(Very excited about this delay...)
As soon as V3205 pcbs become available I have gotta get one. Must have one, it is making me crazy. There is so much good stuff coming up, I am starting to freak out. Yay!
Quote from: jkokura on August 18, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
I'll take the DMM when you're finished with it.
No seriously. I've been jonesing for one for sooooo long.
If I can pardon with it then you got a deal!
Didn't realize there was going to be 2 versions to this project. This just keeps getting better!
I just received supposed MN3005's from UT Source and have a little less than 60 days to return them if they are in fact mislabeled! I am soooooo excited to build this thing. I imagine a fair amount of building-related frustration and crying in my future 8)
I'm certainly no expert, but I believe the 3005's run at a higher voltage, and therefore have more headroom.
which = cleaner delay
anyone else wanna chime in?
Quote from: nzCdog on August 19, 2011, 11:23:03 AM
That is one cool looking pcb! 8)
So in a nutshell... why do we prefer MN3005s to V3205s?
Is it mojo? is it sound? Something else?
(Very excited about this delay...)
The v3205 version will be run at 15v except for the BBDs. I'm doing this to try to emulate some of the headroom of the vintage one....don't know yet how successful it will be.
Update:
The dirtbag is getting put in a 1690NS. I've got a slight tick because the input jack is right over the modulation area of the circuit. There is nothing wrong with the circuit. It's awesome!!! It was my own dumb fault. As soon as the jack is moved away the tick stops. It isn't real bad but its noticeable and I'm to much of a perfectionist. It's causing me to stress. I've tried some shielding attempts and an IC5 change with no success. I just have no room to place the jacks anywhere else with how I routed things. I'm still going with the vertical layout/same faceplate but I'll have the In/out jacks on the sides with the extra height available. Like Brian said it can be done in a lower profile enclosure, but I need some more room because of my goof :-\
Magic - I got my aluminum stock at onlinemetals.com
nzCdog - My opinion is that mn3005's are pretty much the best bbd's I've heard. Dreamy.... ;)
Josh
Thanks Josh... what a bummer about the noise. Hope it clears up in the new enclosure, and thanks for telling us so we can avoid the same issue!
hi Madbeans. the prototype is working? do you think we can have it for the end of september?
Yes, they sound wonderful!!! I don't know the time frame of the pcb.
Josh
Quote from: madbean on August 19, 2011, 11:03:49 PM
The v3205 version will be run at 15v except for the BBDs. I'm doing this to try to emulate some of the headroom of the vintage one....don't know yet how successful it will be.
How are you lowering the BBD voltage? With a shunt diode or regulator?
I assume the design will allow those that want, to use 9V (with adjustments to the compander of course).
I'm working on some last minute stuff to see about merging the different versions into one board like the Aquaboy. I got motivated on this because I worked out a really good layout for the v3205 version that is vertical and regular 6mm resistors instead of 3mm.
Vdd on the v3205 will by a 6-7v zener, I think. I'm still debugging my build.
If it works out, you'd be able to build a 9v (or 15v with a daughter charge pump) version of either MN3005, MN3205 and v3205 and BBD choice depends on a couple of jumpers and maybe a couple minor adjustments. I have to look over the compander stuff again. I remember Dirk had posted some relevant info on FSB. Actually, the comapander is the very thing I need to debug on my v3205 build which is otherwise working.
Quote from: madbean on August 30, 2011, 11:13:10 PM
I'm working on some last minute stuff to see about merging the different versions into one board like the Aquaboy. I got motivated on this because I worked out a really good layout for the v3205 version that is vertical and regular 6mm resistors instead of 3mm.
Vdd on the v3205 will by a 6-7v zener, I think. I'm still debugging my build.
If it works out, you'd be able to build a 9v (or 15v with a daughter charge pump) version of either MN3005, MN3205 and v3205 and BBD choice depends on a couple of jumpers and maybe a couple minor adjustments. I have to look over the compander stuff again. I remember Dirk had posted some relevant info on FSB. Actually, the comapander is the very thing I need to debug on my v3205 build which is otherwise working.
A dual purpose 3205/3005 Memory Man with standard resistors (assuming they're not standing up) and onboard pots sounds absolutely brilliant, pretty much the best PCB I could ask for.
Yeah a Zener is what I meant by shunt diode, I found in my experiments an 8V2 to give the best results, although anything from 5-8V should be fine.
You need to adjust the DC bias on the compander for 9V operation... check out the datasheet for the equation but I seem to recall a 47k/47k pair should be right.
How are you dealing with the alternative power requirements? Positive Vs. Negative or have you adapted the 3005 version to take a Positive supply.
Probably just easier to show the draft schematic. The two switches are actually the jumpers underneath the BBDs to select between Vdd and Vgg depending on which chips you are using. D5 is the shunt to the VD supply.
On the compander---the NE570 is rated up to 24v. Does it need to be about VD, or can the voltage supply to it exceed it? It would be easy enough to add space for a 9.1v zener at pin13 off the compander.
I need to read up. This is my first time working with different voltage options and a different clock.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: madbean on August 30, 2011, 11:43:44 PM
Probably just easier to show the draft schematic. The two switches are actually the jumpers underneath the BBDs to select between Vdd and Vgg depending on which chips you are using. D5 is the shunt to the VD supply.
On the compander---the NE570 is rated up to 24v. Does it need to be about VD, or can the voltage supply to it exceed it? It would be easy enough to add space for a 9.1v zener at pin13 off the compander.
I need to read up. This is my first time working with different voltage options and a different clock.
On the Compander, you'd need to adjust R11 & 12 to adjust the DC Bias, as I said the formula is on the Datasheet but I think 47k/47k is rightish without looking, rather than the 68k/68k I assume from original schematics it is now. I don't think you need to adjust anything to do with the supply voltage but i'll be honest and say Companders aren't my strong point... Rustypinto or Dirk will probably be able to help better.
Different clock? Seems to be the standard 4047, nothing should get changed with that.
Looks fine to me other than that though at a first glance... although feel free to ask any more questions, I do know a little bit about the EHX effects and delays, just not quite as much as some of the people out there!
I'll go over the schematic tonight with a few beers and see what I can see.
I assume you're remembering to switch the power & gnds on the 3205s though and that the resistor on the output of each BBD after the output mixing has to switch... unless i'm missing something.
By different clock I meant the 4047 instead of the MN3101 (well, it's new to me, haha).
And I have made a mistake...it's Vdd and GND that need to switch, not Vdd and Vgg. You've already helped me!
I'll email you the schem with values (on a different computer). Any technical assistance will be most appreciated (and kindly rewarded, BTW)!
Quote from: madbean on August 31, 2011, 12:23:12 AM
By different clock I meant the 4047 instead of the MN3101 (well, it's new to me, haha).
And I have made a mistake...it's Vdd and GND that need to switch, not Vdd and Vgg. You've already helped me!
I'll email you the schem with values (on a different computer). Any technical assistance will be most appreciated (and kindly rewarded, BTW)!
Ahh I see, I have no clue about the MN3101 myself! I've always stuck with the 4047.
Whey! Glad to have helped out, yeah Vgg is supposed to be 14/15th of Vdd (a diodes drop of 0.6V is about perfect for this, however it would only work for the 3205, you'd need a voltage divider for the 3005...however that would also work for the 3205) but it's not that important really, it'll work if it's equal to Vdd.
Awesome, i'll do my best to check it over for you :) values will certainly help!
One other note, Rustypinto pointed out the importance to me of keeping the 4047 Voltage Stable as it changes over the full range of 100kHz-10kHz... something to be wary of perhaps? Or perhaps he was being over cautious... i'm sure you'll find out when you prototype anyway if there are issues, I doubt it myself.
man would love to build one of these, have never even used an analog delay before :-[
What's the best way to tweak a little more delay time out of this beast with the 4047 clock. I just got my new enclosure and I've got to rebox anyways so I figure maybe I can get a little more ms.
Thanks,
Josh
Quote from: gtr2 on September 01, 2011, 01:14:32 PM
What's the best way to tweak a little more delay time out of this beast with the 4047 clock. I just got my new enclosure and I've got to rebox anyways so I figure maybe I can get a little more ms.
Thanks,
Josh
Well your best bet is to actually increase the size of the Delay time pot, reason being, if you alter either the 5.6k resistor or 240pF cap in the clock, you're going to loose some shorter delay times.
But there lies your answer, increase the size of that resistor, cap or delay time pot and you'll get more delay out of it... I wouldn't stretch above 650mS though... well you might like the sound I guess.
If you change the delay time pot, you may have to play with the cap value anyway so that it doesn't get
too much delay, unless you use a parallel resistor with the pot to lower its value to something more sensible, seeing as the next standard value is going to be atleast twice the value.
Thanks. I was thinking the delay pot could be changed but wasn't sure. Adding the resistor in parallel is a great idea because the next easily obtainable value is 250kB. I'll give it a whirl and see. :)
Josh
First post updated with new box pic and crummy demo :P
Josh
Did you use the same enclosure? The demo sounds awesome man :)
Quote from: nzCdog on October 20, 2011, 05:53:02 AM
Did you use the same enclosure? The demo sounds awesome man :)
Thanks. I went with a 1690 instead of the original 125-BB. The added height gave me plenty of clearance for the jacks. I disliked re-boxing, but it was a necessary chore.
Josh
Is there any possible way to add a tap tempo to this?
I'm sure someone could but I don't know how to do it. I've yet to find something that the average DIY like me could do with tap tempo. ;D
Josh
There is no DIY solution available for analog delay that I know of.
*SIGH*
I still want one...BAD. It sounds amazing.
Quote from: gtr2 on September 01, 2011, 05:10:02 PM
Thanks. I was thinking the delay pot could be changed but wasn't sure. Adding the resistor in parallel is a great idea because the next easily obtainable value is 250kB. I'll give it a whirl and see. :)
Josh
Did this work for you?
I didn't do it. I did switch the pot out though with another 100k. My original pot measured 87k so I replaced it with one that was 99k. It gives me enough delay time for my needs so I didn't mess with it further.
UPGRADE:
A little more delay time available this way ;)
Josh
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6473877545_f519187b6f_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31503679@N02/6473877545/)
Where did you get that double delay board?!?! Different than the ones that were on FSB yeah?
I "Eagle'd" some boards up. It's a little different than the aquaboy double delay. I based the board off the schematic on SmallBears site for the fake mn3005's.
Josh
That's just greedy...but I love it.
How's it sounding? I like the idea quite a bit. I might have to make a quad MN3008 version of the Dirtbag if these MN3005's I've got here turn out to be fakes.
I don't think I'm going to come in on my timeline of getting this thing going by the 20th. My parts aren't all in for this thing yet and I can't get it built and test these chips until that happens. Boy I hope these refurbished chips are the real thing, it's going to be an expensive experiment if they aren't...
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on December 07, 2011, 11:28:08 PM
How's it sounding? I like the idea quite a bit. I might have to make a quad MN3008 version of the Dirtbag if these MN3005's I've got here turn out to be fakes.
I don't think I'm going to come in on my timeline of getting this thing going by the 20th. My parts aren't all in for this thing yet and I can't get it built and test these chips until that happens. Boy I hope these refurbished chips are the real thing, it's going to be an expensive experiment if they aren't...
Jacob
Got a breadboard and a spare 4047?
It's not a great way to test it but if you find the schematic for the EHX Full Double Tracker (I redrew the original, you should be able to find the 3005 version I did on Freestompboxes) remove R15,16,17 - C12 & D2 and then wire a 100k pot between Pins 2 & 3 of the 4047 which will now be your delay pot. Oh and ignore all the power supply stuff.
You should be able to test the chips to some extent with that and it's ridiculously simple, don't expect great signal quality and definitley expect some clock whine but it might just help to give you an idea, if only to find out if they work at all.
Quote from: gtr2 on December 07, 2011, 11:13:56 PM
I "Eagle'd" some boards up. It's a little different than the aquaboy double delay. I based the board off the schematic on SmallBears site for the fake mn3005's.
Josh
does that work with the mn3005?
Quote from: Scruffie on December 08, 2011, 02:00:23 AM
Got a breadboard and a spare 4047?
It's not a great way to test it but if you find the schematic for the EHX Full Double Tracker (I redrew the original, you should be able to find the 3005 version I did on Freestompboxes) remove R15,16,17 - C12 & D2 and then wire a 100k pot between Pins 2 & 3 of the 4047 which will now be your delay pot. Oh and ignore all the power supply stuff.
You should be able to test the chips to some extent with that and it's ridiculously simple, don't expect great signal quality and definitley expect some clock whine but it might just help to give you an idea, if only to find out if they work at all.
Got a link for all that? The reason I was waiting was because I don't have all the parts, but I might scrounge and see if I have a 4047, though I doubt I do.
Jacob
MN3101? 4013? 4046? You can even make a clock with 2 NPN transistors at a push.
I'm too low on my net allowance to go searching but on Freestompboxes, I did post a redrawn schematic or an EHX Full Double Tracking/Tracker, give google a search.
Yes I gathered that's why you're waiting but if you have a reasonable breadboard stock and even a load of wrong values, you should be able to pull something off.
You could even make it simpler and just have an input and output buffer with opamps or transistors, a 100k trim connected via 9V & Gnd biasing the 3005 and the clock although with no low pass filtering it will become even harder to tell if the poor sound & clock whine is the bbd or the poor circuitry.
http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10741&p=116405&hilit=+Full+Double+track#p116405
Very cool mod Josh... so how much delay time can you squeeze out of your Dirtbag now??
Around 750ms with no modulation
When I add the modulation I get clock wine at the longest delay settings.
Josh
i'm new to this forum... and ive been searching quite a bit with the box but i cannot find anything on sourcing mn3005's... i'm sure this has been covered... but it appears not. if someone could help me get some i would be forever indebted!!!
There are no guaranteed methods. If you have some though, let me know cause I need 4.
Jacob