Hello all,
Sorry if this topic is handled elsewhere. While not new to circuits in general, I am new to pedal creation. What I am finding is in 2017 most of the ICs, transistors, and diodes used in these schematics are quickly being obsoleted.
I was curious what the creative minds out there were doing about this? Are you sitting on hoards of parts? Paying out the nose? Going to SMT? Experimenting with comparable substitutes?
Obviously the big pedal companies are finding a solution to this, I've just haven't found any information in my searches. Maybe this is a big industry secret.
I think we will need specific part numbers you're running into as being obsolete. I can't think of a blanket answer for your question.
Cody
Ok for example:
BF245
J201
2n5457
Those have been obsolete since...2014 or so? Places like Small Bear have heaps left for years and years of pedals to come. I know I have.
Technically... some of those are not obsolete either. There are some manufacturers (Central comes to mind) that still produce these. Although... for a much higher cost :o
I've bought NOS J201 and 2n5457s from my local electronics shop -- of questionable quality, mind you -- but moving forward I intend to use still-produced SMT components with the little adaptor boards. I wish I'd done this already, as I'm working on a compressor that relies on 2n5457s and it appears mine might be fakes.
The J201 and 2N2547 can be bought as SMD components ex. MMBFJ201 and MMBF5457 and mounted on an adapter board and used just like a TO-92 part. I've got a pedal where the designer included footprints for both packages.
Also, check a supplier that specializes in parts that are typically only now used in pedals such as smallbear electronics.
Josh
Populating an entire board with SMD isn't something I find fun. However, just doing the transistors and ICs doesn't bother me and really makes life a lot easier. Through-hole resistors and caps are still very easy to come by, don't constantly get lost when you drop them and got that mojo look.
I've been meaning to check on Elecrow's rates on populating PCBs - have them do the thin-film SMD resistors, transistors and ICs and just leave off the through-hole film caps that carry the audio signal for me to solder. Kinda would be like cheating, though ...
For "big" pedal/effect companies or anyone who outsources assembly, the future is presumably SMD; many of them are already there. That leaves cottage pedal makers, DIY'ers, prototype builders, and repairs. Through-hole JFETs were already mentioned as going away; I think it will take longer for through-hole BJTs and op-amps, let alone resistors and capacitors, but no idea how long. Some specialty ICs will just go away completely (like the CA3080 that everyone hunts), but then you have an example like Xvive reviving BBD chips. If it's worthwhile to do that, then it will probably be a long time before very common parts like through-hole op-amps are completely gone.
Ironically, when I started playing guitar, I saw articles about (possibly hysterical) fears that vacuum tubes would become unavailable, and now it looks like they may outlast some of the contemporary solid state components.
Quote from: jubal81 on May 17, 2017, 10:45:05 PM
Populating an entire board with SMD isn't something I find fun.
Not by hand it isn't. I'm pretty close to building a reflow oven. I watched a Ben Heck video on Youtube and it looks pretty straightforward.
Just going off of Mouser, it seems like the 1n400x diodes are being obsoleted.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Quote from: Domdec314 on May 18, 2017, 09:24:26 AM
Just going off of Mouser, it seems like the 1n400x diodes are being obsoleted.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Just checked 1N4007's and they show Fairchild's as end of life but for the other eight manufacturers they have in stock all looks normal. They also show over 500k on order.
http://ca.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mbZscv7?Keyword=1n4007&No=25&FS=True
dave
I agree, it will be a while before all the through hole stuff goes obsolete, at least for pedals. Prices will continue to climb though.
I've done a number of smd builds by hand and have since committed to doing all my future builds in smd. I still have a few pcbs I bought a while ago that are nearly done though. It's enough to remind me that while its still fun, I much prefer smd to through hole.
>I agree, it will be a while before all the through hole stuff goes obsolete, at least for pedals.
I think a distinction here has to be made between a product at 'end of life' or (technically) 'obsolete' vs. a product that is no longer attainable.
Most through hole semiconductors are EOL, or will be in the not-too-distant future. Quite a few passive through hole stuff (caps, resistors, etc) is starting to go EOL too.
However, that doesn't mean that many of them will soon be unobtainable. We still by NOS 50 year-old transistors after all.
>I was curious what the creative minds out there were doing about this? Are you sitting on hoards of parts? Paying out the nose? Going to SMT? Experimenting with comparable substitutes?
Personally (although the creative mind bit may be debatable) - Yes to some extent, sometimes, sometimes, absolutely.
Good discussion. Thanks for all the input.
I don't mind soldering SMD, but that is because my real job has giving me much practice. But what I do see as a problem is breadboarding, if I ever come to that level of experimentation.
Well, my thinking is that in the near future (10 years?) a lot of the SMD some of us are using today will become end of life. Most electronics will be designed around microprocessors and breadboarded as software simulations.
We already have examples of this in spice, the fv-1 chip, and Arduino. Pretty much all the pieces are there already, it just hasn't hit the tipping point yet. It will be interesting to see this diy hobby morph into amp and stomp box modeling. ;D
We'll be posting algorithms, swapping bits of code, and troubleshooting glitchy decays. Some will wonder what is the best order for multithreaded loops.
A few rich people will continue using $140 j201s and $6 47k resistors, citing all the benefits of "true analog." (I'm not sure analog will ever really die but I look at my cassette collection and think about how quickly things change.)
But more to your immediate point, I find it quick enough to swap out smd passives or even ice that it hasn't been an issue. Also it's possible (for now) to use dev pcbs and mix with traditional bread boards.
Quote from: wgc on May 19, 2017, 07:47:22 PM
Well, my thinking is that in the near future (10 years?) a lot of the SMD some of us are using today will become end of life. Most electronics will be designed around microprocessors and breadboarded as software simulations.
We already have examples of this in spice, the fv-1 chip, and Arduino. Pretty much all the pieces are there already, it just hasn't hit the tipping point yet. It will be interesting to see this diy hobby morph into amp and stomp box modeling. ;D
We'll be posting algorithms, swapping bits of code, and troubleshooting glitchy decays. Some will wonder what is the best order for multithreaded loops.
A few rich people will continue using $140 j201s and $6 47k resistors, citing all the benefits of "true analog." (I'm not sure analog will ever really die but I look at my cassette collection and think about how quickly things change.)
But more to your immediate point, I find it quick enough to swap out smd passives or even ice that it hasn't been an issue. Also it's possible (for now) to use dev pcbs and mix with traditional bread boards.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/06/2a/6a/062a6a281d78f15e344ec7fb738d457a.jpg)
At least you didn't call me a party pooper. ;D
I had been out with some friends and had a couple of beers just prior to that post. So I was serious but also very tongue in cheek.
Rest assured, plenty of years left for the hobby as it exists today. It might get a little more expensive but I see the continued use of vacuum tubes as a great example.
And as technology continues to evolve, we might be able to use freeware to design and fab our own op amps and bbds much like we can do with pcbs from oshpark today.
Quote from: wgc on May 19, 2017, 07:47:22 PM
Well, my thinking is that in the near future (10 years?) a lot of the SMD some of us are using today will become end of life. Most electronics will be designed around microprocessors and breadboarded as software simulations.
We already have examples of this in spice, the fv-1 chip, and Arduino. Pretty much all the pieces are there already, it just hasn't hit the tipping point yet. It will be interesting to see this diy hobby morph into amp and stomp box modeling. ;D
We'll be posting algorithms, swapping bits of code, and troubleshooting glitchy decays. Some will wonder what is the best order for multithreaded loops.
A few rich people will continue using $140 j201s and $6 47k resistors, citing all the benefits of "true analog." (I'm not sure analog will ever really die but I look at my cassette collection and think about how quickly things change.)
But more to your immediate point, I find it quick enough to swap out smd passives or even ice that it hasn't been an issue. Also it's possible (for now) to use dev pcbs and mix with traditional bread boards.
To a certain degree, I think a lot of this will happen; at least with DIYers getting more into modeling.
As far as through-hole parts, I think DIYers will have access for a while assuming the actual businesses don't use most of them up. We can still get Ge transistors for DIY building, so small numbers of parts should be around for a little while.
Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking. I am excited about the possibility of microprocessors and what they could offer.
As for diy fx moving towards software, I think there's sounds to be had that aren't straight up modeled copies of existing gear but maybe even blur the lines into synthesis. The sky is the limit, soon as someone has both the expertise and vision to do it.
I'm also very excited about the possibility of designing custom ic's and having them fabbed the way we can get pcbs from oshpark. Again, all the pieces are there but not cost effective yet.
All joking aside, the future is very bright from where I stand.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/HUkOv6BNWc1HO/giphy.gif)
Panic buy ;D