If you've been following this thread (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=27252.0) you know that USPS has made a major change in international shipping. The cheap "Flats" option which I used to ship orders (under $40) is no longer available for anything other than "documents" - which definitely does not cover PCBs. Consequently, all non-USA shipments will now require 1st Class International postage which is a significant price increase over Flats. Priority International has increased up to 30% from 2017 and will no longer be required for international orders over $100. Domestic Priority has also increased and I will no longer be able to offer free Priority on USA orders of $100 and over. So, the following shipping rates go into effect today:
1st Class Shipping (only option)
USA - $3.00 for orders under $75, and free for $75 and over
Canada - $9.50
Mexico - $11.70
Everywhere else - $13.30
------------------------------
(1) Supposedly, there may be an option to continue to use Flats through some mail services by sending it to a separate "processing center" where they re-label shipments for a fee. This might be a way to lower the new shipping costs eventually but I don't know enough about this yet to use it (and it appears it may not be an option with the Dazzle software I use for international postage ((I have a support ticket submitted))). So, until I know something different or better this is how it is.
(2) I'm really sorry for the impact it will have on all customers and especially the international ones. I'm also worried about how it will impact MBP since nearly half my business is from outside the US. I guess time will tell.
(3) One positive footnote - since all shipments will require 1st Class all the VFE projects are now priced exactly the same whether or not they include custom pots. No more "shipping adjusted prices" to deal with.
Ouch! Guess I should have placed an order last week. (I'm one of the "everywhere else")
That's a harsh thing for many businesses I guess. Best of luck handling this.
Quote from: madbean on January 21, 2018, 10:25:52 AM
I'm also worried about how it will impact MBP since nearly half my business is from outside the US. I guess time will tell.
On a tangentially related note, I just tested the Donate button. Seems to work, but could use some extra testing if anyone else wants to try it. ;)
Quote from: mjg on January 21, 2018, 12:46:38 PM
Ouch! Guess I should have placed an order last week. (I'm one of the "everywhere else")
Quote from: Rockhorst on January 21, 2018, 01:00:20 PM
That's a harsh thing for many businesses I guess. Best of luck handling this.
+1 I'm in Canada, so not as bad as "everywhere else". Still, a bit of sticker shock seeing it in place. No fault of MBP or anyone else, but enough to hold off on a Moar and 4:1, at least to see if the cheaper mail service / re-label shipment option comes in or until I'm after additional boards. :(
Yeah, I understand that there's nothing that business owners can do about this, really. But seeing the postage cost more than the product is a mental hurdle that I can't seem to overcome.
I would love to order from, for example, Small Bear and PPP, but never do. The postage costs with them is even more horrifying.
I'm sure madbean is looking at all the options - I will mention that Tayda shipping always seems really cheap, and they use DHL. Don't know if that's an option that would work?
DHL isn't exactly cheap, but it is fast. An for the 'anywhere else'-customers it would be a real option as the prize of DHL shipment is now comparable with USPS. USPS takes about two weeks to get to my door step. DHL does it within a weekend.
Well, that's the end of buying from the US for me, I'm afraid. Time to dust off the old etching skills ...
Well i am still gonna buy but less often...like 2 or 3 order per year :p i will just buy more on each order ^^ and i still got a backlog of about 50 boards to finish so :p in the end i dont think it will affect how much i buy from beans and the other us based pcb makers :)
A bit of a kick in the teeth for small business' like MBP. I'm not sure how this compares to the reverse: if I buy something from Everywhere else to the US...what kind of shipping costs apply?
I suppose it's all in stride with the tone of 2018 in this country. Both my wife (emergency room nurse) and I (data center engineer) got notice that our respective companies will be cutting back on incentive bonus' and benefit contributions. Seems to be in line with a lot of other folks I talk to. Corporations are emboldened now that the CEO of this country has bolstered the "trickle-down" fiasco.
And no, I don't want to start a political debate here, but regardless of your political leanings the overall attitude seems to be "love it or shove it".
Quote from: gordo on January 22, 2018, 05:59:59 AM
I'm not sure how this compares to the reverse: if I buy something from Everywhere else to the US...what kind of shipping costs apply?
I was told by Canada Post a few weeks ago that the USPS is no longer accepting letter mail that contains anything but paper. I was sending a pickguard to Terrapin Guitars in Oregon. Shipping costs would have been tripled to go parcel post over letter post. In that case I rolled the dice and sent via letter post anyway and it got there okay.
I wouldn't do the same today since the USPS has actually brought their new rates and rules into effect. So, I'm guessing that there will be a bump in rates from "everywhere else" to the US, if only to reduce chances of a non-compliant package ending up in the waste bin.
That said, I've had good luck so far with US-based sellers that use the Amazon-style "ship to US-based processing centre/ re-label / ship international" option. I just miss the tracking benefit that USPS First Class International used to provide to Canada.
There's always a chance they will reverse the policy, I guess. But it's hard to hope for. USPS has been on a general trend of pretty dramatic price increases over the last ten years. I used to be able to ship international regular first class for three or so dollars. 10 years later that's gone up over 400%. Part of the problem is they used to be legally required to keep something like 70 billion in reserves for pensions which was consistently causing huge shortfalls. Don't know if this is still the case. I just can't grok not being able to mail a package that weighs 2 or 3 ounces for less than $10. It seems outrageous.
Quote from: madbean on January 22, 2018, 09:52:50 AM
Part of the problem is they used to be legally required to keep something like 70 billion in reserves for pensions which was consistently causing huge shortfalls. Don't know if this is still the case. I just can't grok not being able to mail a package that weighs 2 or 3 ounces for less than $10. It seems outrageous.
Another part of the problem is when USPS went from ".gov" to ".com"
When I drop things like this off at the post shop, it usually goes like this...
"What's this?"
"Oh, a circuit board."
"Well, it really should be package... letters are only meant for documents, according to guidelines..."
(checks size against templates)
"I'll put it through as a letter for you anyway."
Quote from: alanp on January 22, 2018, 08:55:25 PM
When I drop things like this off at the post shop, it usually goes like this...
"What's this?"
"Oh, a circuit board."
"Well, it really should be package... letters are only meant for documents, according to guidelines..."
(checks size against templates)
"I'll put it through as a letter for you anyway."
That always worked for me too, but that appears to have ended as the PO is kicking them back now.
I can't get a PCB through as a letter either. The USPS folks literally feel around and try to bend the thing if you hand them an envelope to be sure it's just paper. Then when they find something rigid (the PCB) they ring it up as a package. I actually just got a piece of mail that I have to pay "postage due" which I suspect is because of this. It's crazy how specific they are about some of these rules. I feel like if you meet the size and weight requirements, it should just end there.
/First world problems.
Yes, the work arounds have ended in the US.
Quote from: cajone5 on January 23, 2018, 06:22:47 AM
I can't get a PCB through as a letter either. The USPS folks literally feel around and try to bend the thing if you hand them an envelope to be sure it's just paper. Then when they find something rigid (the PCB) they ring it up as a package. I actually just got a piece of mail that I have to pay "postage due" which I suspect is because of this. It's crazy how specific they are about some of these rules. I feel like if you meet the size and weight requirements, it should just end there.
/First world problems.
So, if I'd send a pcb from Austria in a regular envelope, they would charge the recipient extra?
Quote from: cajone5 on January 23, 2018, 06:22:47 AM
I can't get a PCB through as a letter either. The USPS folks literally feel around and try to bend the thing if you hand them an envelope to be sure it's just paper. Then when they find something rigid (the PCB) they ring it up as a package. I actually just got a piece of mail that I have to pay "postage due" which I suspect is because of this. It's crazy how specific they are about some of these rules. I feel like if you meet the size and weight requirements, it should just end there.
/First world problems.
This is just international, right? I can still get away with the non-machinable stamp in an envelope for domestic?
Quote from: m-Kresol on January 23, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
(re "postage due")
So, if I'd send a pcb from Austria in a regular envelope, they would charge the recipient extra?
I've never heard of getting charged postage due for receiving international mail; the USPS doesn't get paid directly for delivering it, that is they wouldn't check if the sender paid their own service enough. In the US, postage due happens occasionally if someone mails a domestic letter with not enough postage.
I had never really understood how countries work out reciprocal mail charges until reading about it just now. It has to do with the UPU (universal postal union) and the countries settle up by total weight exchanged. There is more information about the UPU rules in the other thread on thi subject.
Well I just dropped a PCB in the mail as a letter. Then I read this thread. Hope it gets through.
Quote from: blearyeyes on January 25, 2018, 03:59:16 AM
Well I just dropped a PCB in the mail as a letter. Then I read this thread. Hope it gets through.
Let me know how this goes.
For so long, the lady at my USPS PO has been AWESOME. She would let me pay the non-machinable surcharge and I never had an issue. I wonder if that's the case anymore...
1. Print Invoice.
2. Tape PCB to invoice.
3. Put in regular envelope.
4. Red stamp that says "Non-Machinable."
5. Pay a LITTLE extra $$. (What... like an extra butterfly stamp or something)
6. Customer happy.
How do people send gift cards now?
Quote from: daleykd on January 25, 2018, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: blearyeyes on January 25, 2018, 03:59:16 AM
Well I just dropped a PCB in the mail as a letter. Then I read this thread. Hope it gets through.
Let me know how this goes.
For so long, the lady at my USPS PO has been AWESOME. She would let me pay the non-machinable surcharge and I never had an issue. I wonder if that's the case anymore...
1. Print Invoice.
2. Tape PCB to invoice.
3. Put in regular envelope.
4. Red stamp that says "Non-Machinable."
5. Pay a LITTLE extra $$. (What... like an extra butterfly stamp or something)
6. Customer happy.
How do people send gift cards now?
If you send them in a greeting card of some sort, thank you note, etc. that's how I get some of a.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The last one I sent was inside a greeting card at xmas. I marked it as "card only" (feeling very shifty at the post office doing so) and sent it off. This is in Australia so we don't have the UPS hassles I guess.
I wonder if thin, flexible PCBs may be in our future. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone who would make a through-hole one though.
Quote from: EBK on January 28, 2018, 04:52:10 AM
I wonder if thin, flexible PCBs may be in our future. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone who would make a through-hole one though.
Flex circuits are very useful, but expensive in low quantities and fragile compared to traditional PCBs.