This is basically an arduino looper for eight loops with the ability to store 12 presets. It can also be used to switch up to 4 amp functions (required for my Engl Ironball). For another amp (Marshall 2554), I needed an additional switch to change the polarity of one of the switches (so the LED is lit, if the hot channel of that amp is activated).
Anyway, I built it already in 2015, resurrected it today from the basement and shockingly found out that I never labelled it, so I had to reverse engineer what the 6 mini switches, 17 footswitches and 14 jacks were for. So, the only reasons to post it now is twofold:
- I think, it got lost in a forum crash years ago.
- Remember to label in time, if you ever build something that big.
Eye-candy:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0tCkS7N/image002.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4rT4gGt/image003.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfmxKfwW/image004.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jST4P0xC/image005.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qBtwdxDB/image006.jpg)
...and the way it looks today:
(https://i.postimg.cc/XJ7v5GWv/IMG-20181101-123506.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjh5C6G9/IMG-20181101-123701.jpg)
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
Mine's about 90% done. Hopefully this pushes me to finish it.
Damn, I need this in my life :)
Yep that is amazing!
Quote from: madbean on November 01, 2018, 04:58:15 PM
Damn, I need this in my life :)
Me too. What a fantastic job.
Totally amazeballs! :o
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 01, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
This is great project.. Is this suppose to be 14 preset looper?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 01, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
This is great project.. Is this suppose to be 14 preset looper?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Yes, it can do 14 presets, but on mine, I sacrificed one button, so MINE is 12 presets only. Will use the lower left button for a taprecise board.
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 02, 2018, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 01, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
This is great project.. Is this suppose to be 14 preset looper?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Yes, it can do 14 presets, but on mine, I sacrificed one button, so MINE is 12 presets only. Will use the lower left button for a taprecise board.
I get it.. I will probably start working on it. Only thing I cannot decide what do with is enclosure..
P.S. Probably everyone are expecting another run of pcbs and chips.. :)
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:56:02 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 02, 2018, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 01, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
This is great project.. Is this suppose to be 14 preset looper?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Yes, it can do 14 presets, but on mine, I sacrificed one button, so MINE is 12 presets only. Will use the lower left button for a taprecise board.
I get it.. I will probably start working on it. Only thing I cannot decide what do with is enclosure..
P.S. Probably everyone are expecting another run of pcbs and chips.. :)
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
You should get the blocan enclosure, it's worth it. Check the build doc for details...
I would create a new version of the relay board, if I ever find time. I made it with fritzing (!), meanwhile I know how to work with eagle. Fix some minor issues, but God knows when I find time...
For the enclosure:
http://www.rk-rose-
krieger.com/fileadmin/catalogue/neuheiten/news_kabelkanalsystem_gb.pdf
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 02, 2018, 01:05:20 AM
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:56:02 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 02, 2018, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: brejna on November 02, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 01, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: brejna on November 01, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Ahahahaha! Awesome! I am looking at the pcbs I got from you and I was thinking there is no way will finish this.. And you post it right now.. :D
Brenja ! At least I can say that it works perfectly even yrs after building it. Like your voodoo vibe...
This is great project.. Is this suppose to be 14 preset looper?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Yes, it can do 14 presets, but on mine, I sacrificed one button, so MINE is 12 presets only. Will use the lower left button for a taprecise board.
I get it.. I will probably start working on it. Only thing I cannot decide what do with is enclosure..
P.S. Probably everyone are expecting another run of pcbs and chips.. :)
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
You should get the blocan enclosure, it's worth it. Check the build doc for details...
I would create a new version of the relay board, if I ever find time. I made it with fritzing (!), meanwhile I know how to work with eagle. Fix some minor issues, but God knows when I find time...
Your build is in 80cm long enclosure, right?
Whenever you find time to make another batch, count me in..
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
It's actually 60.5 mm long. I will see, if I find the time for a new release. Changes would be:
- Relay board:
-- Move Cable connections to the side of the board, that points toward the inside of the enclosure
-- Create an eagle component, that allows for easy shielded wire connection (basically a hole to push the cable through, with a solder pad for the shield and another solder pad next to that for the inner wire)
-- Correct missing ground connections (result of a bug in fritzing)
-- Improve ground plane (Version 1 has ground fill, but eagle can do this much better than fritzing)
- Control board:
-- Add space for blocking caps
-- change design to load a complete nano (like I have done on my moebius controller and my taprecise design) - they are dead cheap these days and come with an USB port, so people can program their own software, update easily etc. Plus, I dont have to program and ship them.
-- use internal pullup resistors in the Atmel processor (and get rid of the 17 10k resistors) - this requires inversion of the switch logic in the program code, though...
-- Correct missing ground connections (result of a bug in fritzing)
-- Improve ground plane (Version 1 has ground fill, but eagle can do this much better than fritzing)
-- Add a Midi-Port. It's not hard to do in Arduino to send out static Midi program changes on events. And I might want to add a Line6 HX Stomp to my board somewhen in the near future...
Other:
- Change drill template, so the jacks are more far away from the relays
- Add little board for footswitches and LED
- Add a solid-state-relay based mute function (mute the output for 10 ms while switching)
- Add a third bank and a tri-color-LED for a total of 21 presets
- Skip the "Write" button. Store presets by holding respective program button down for three seconds. Downside: Program change will happen on the release of a button (because only then the system will know, that the button has not been pressed long). Alternative: Enter write mode by holding down the bank switch for three seconds.
- Add an input buffer
- Enhance one or two loops with a "trails" feature (for delays or reverbs), with phase invert option.
- Add a Tuner out/Mute button
- Bypassable, galvanic separation of Loop 7 or 8 for use with two amps
- Move Jacks for Input, send, return and output to the (audio) side of the looper (adjust the audio PCB accordingly). Depending on how you build it, this could be either left or right. Potentially reduces the need for an additional patchbay on the board.
- Mute on Tap Tempo Longpress
- external access to usb port
I should mention, that none of these is crucial and that version 1 works very well.
Very clever stuff there... I might be interested in an updated version as well if you get around to it.
No rush I've got a pile of projects and notn enough time in the day as well... ;)
I actually was just planning out what all I'm going to do for mine earlier this week. Finally getting around to tackling this after delaying it for so long.
If I wanted to do a stereo loop, I had the idea of cutting a couple of traces on the relay board and then using one switch heading to two loops connections so they both get controlled with one switch. Do you see any reason why that wouldn't work?
Quote from: Aristatertotle on November 02, 2018, 06:57:36 PM
I actually was just planning out what all I'm going to do for mine earlier this week. Finally getting around to tackling this after delaying it for so long.
If I wanted to do a stereo loop, I had the idea of cutting a couple of traces on the relay board and then using one switch heading to two loops connections so they both get controlled with one switch. Do you see any reason why that wouldn't work?
No need to cut traces for that. Just connect the switch to both wires going to the control board.
As I think about it, it might be cool to add midi to the switcher. Added it to my list a few posts above for future reference ;-)
Getting the enclosure material here in the states is a nightmare. Very cool stuff though.
So....can a brother build this thing? Or is this an exclusive club ;D
..got the same board from a trade 3 years ago from you...haven't finished it yet...but the only things i'm missing are the relays and power supply...
..if i may suggest considering you are planning to reprogam it...is it possible to incorporate the WRITE sw with the BANK sw?...holding the BANK sw for 3 seconds or so...to function as a WRITE sw...the reason for this is just to have 8 foot switches instead of 9 (on the first row) thus the 2 rows (presets and loops) are alligned vertically...
tnx
Quote from: artstomp on November 03, 2018, 08:24:20 PM
..got the same board from a trade 3 years ago from you...haven't finished it yet...but the only things i'm missing are the relays and power supply...
..if i may suggest considering you are planning to reprogam it...is it possible to incorporate the WRITE sw with the BANK sw?...holding the BANK sw for 3 seconds or so...to function as a WRITE sw...the reason for this is just to have 8 foot switches instead of 9 (on the first row) thus the 2 rows (presets and loops) are alligned vertically...
tnx
I would incorporate the write in each program button. Hold a program button down and the preset is stored on that button in the current bank.
The buttons are not aligned intentionally. I find the back row easier to access that way...
Brother bean... It's not an exclusive club and Christmas season is coming :-)
For the enclosure: There must be comparable cable channels available in the US. If somebody searches available options, I could design the boards for that enclosure.
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 03, 2018, 10:53:33 PM
I would incorporate the write in each program button. Hold a program button down and the preset is stored on that button in the current bank.
The buttons are not aligned intentionally. I find the back row easier to access that way...
...yes..having the WRITE on each program buttons is way cooler and appropriate...
..i just wish you find plenty of time for the doing the upgraded version...
tnx
...so, you guys got me thinking, and now I come up with even more ideas:
- Add a solid-state-relay based mute function (mute the output for 10 ms while switching)
- Add a third bank and a tri-color-LED for a total of 21 presets
- Skip the "Write" button.
- Add an input buffer
All of that added to the feature request list on page one of this thread. Any more suggestions?
I like the mute feature. I think the buffer might be on the user but honestly can never hurt. I'm not crazy about having to use the stereo breakout cables but I bought all the cable and connectors so it can't be too bad :-) And it saves real estate.
I don't think I'd need more presets but that's just me. I would like to be able to change the order of the effects and a scribble strip display to record a name but I think we're getting into exotic commercial territory with this one. One of the things that appealed to me about this project is the relative lack of complexity and the ability to roll back to "panic" mode where each effect is individually controllable.
Wait, I've got one...the ability to turn tails on and off on at least one output. Would typically be a delay or reverb.
Quote from: gordo on November 04, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
Wait, I've got one...the ability to turn tails on and off on at least one output. Would typically be a delay or reverb.
Great one, thanks! Will look into that one.
Further features added:
- Add a Tuner out/Mute button
- Bypassable, galvanic separation of Loop 7 or 8 for use with two amps
<moved a question about buffered bypass to a more general thread: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=28875.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=28875.0)
Quote from: madbean on November 01, 2018, 04:58:15 PM
Damn, I need this in my life :)
Brian, as I saw somewhere else that you are rebuilding your board - when do you need the V.II of this? I would be honored.
For the impatient ones: Doc for Version I: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5vtgOg9bRJjeW0xV0Q4YlFOVU0/view?usp=sharing
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 09, 2018, 05:02:37 AM
Quote from: madbean on November 01, 2018, 04:58:15 PM
Damn, I need this in my life :)
Brian, as I saw somewhere else that you are rebuilding your board - when do you need the V.II of this? I would be honored.
For the impatient ones: Doc for Version I: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5vtgOg9bRJjeW0xV0Q4YlFOVU0/view?usp=sharing
Sorry - I ran out of time to respond to your PM yesterday. I plan on building a couple loopers but I haven't decided what will go on the new board yet. I'm gonna build Jacob's Epic Looper and I'm definitely interested in building whatever you come up with. Ideally, what I want is pretty much the Boss ES-8 but I know that's probably beyond DIY. The thing that appeals to me the most about that one is the ability to re-order pedals, parallel loops and (very importantly) a couple stereo loops with Midi capability. It seems the best way to control this behemoth of a board I'm building and control it in a straight-forward way.
So, I'm not really on a time-frame. It'll be a couple months before I build the actual pedalboard itself. The project doesn't need to be completed until next summer (which I'm hoping when the new record gets started on). In any case, whatever you come up with I'm going to want to do :)
Cool, thanks. I just checked the Boss Looper, that thing is way beyond DIY, I agree (that's why it comes with a pricetag as well...). But it raises a question, that maybe somebody has an answer to:
Changing the order of 8 loops cannot be done with a reasonable amount of relays, but it says it is an analog circuit. So, how do you think they do that?
Just spent some time for research... An audio analog multiplexer would be required... Well... 8 of them...
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 09, 2018, 12:21:44 PM
Just spent some time for research... An audio analog multiplexer would be required... Well... 8 of them...
Even better: They sell Audio switching matrix IC, controllable via I2C. ADG2128 or similar. I just don't have time to deal with that and my analog knowledge and equipment (oscilloscope) would not be sufficient anyway. But given the use cases in the specs, this would be the magic ingredient for arduino controlled pedal order switching. Add a digital volume control IC, and you get closer to what the Boss unit can do...
In order to motivate myself, I ordered a Line6 HX Stomp :-). Plan to get midi tap tempo working with the next release. Any other midi stuff I should be aware of? Haven't used midi all that much...
That's awesome. I'm considering an HX stomp, and the upgrades you're doing make me want to not build v1 and wait for v2 of the Linda.
I think another useful button could be the midi control to turn on/off the tuner screen on the HX stomp.
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 16, 2018, 07:53:37 AM
In order to motivate myself, I ordered a Line6 HX Stomp :-). Plan to get midi tap tempo working with the next release. Any other midi stuff I should be aware of? Haven't used midi all that much...
Very very cool!
Also let us know how you like the Line6 HX stomp, looks like a clever device that runs in the face of things like Eventide H9 and the like. Wondering how you like the sounds and general useability... review pleeeease.
Is it possible to add midi pc and cc messages? Also if you could design it to choose midi channel of each message, that would be awesome..
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
Quote from: brejna on November 18, 2018, 10:08:56 PM
Is it possible to add midi pc and cc messages? Also if you could design it to choose midi channel of each message, that would be awesome..
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
PC messages should work, but CC... I would have to provide an extra jack for a wah/volume-style pedal to create the CC messages. I am not sure, if that would work flawlessly (havent worked with interrupts on Arduino yet...). Midi channel would only be assignable globally, I am afraid. I don't want to add a display and editing that without a display would be tricky...
PC messages would be a great feature. Looking forward to build the lopper/ switcher someday.
I hope this project won´t be killed by too much options, like other promising projects before.
I am still working on this monster, although I am really distracted by the arrival of my Line6 HX Stomp ;-)
Most difficult thing is to create space for the relay board. With the current jack placement (see picture 1 below), I am restricted to 5 cm in depth, and with the pricing for PCB manufacturers, I don't want exceed 10 cm in length. This doesnt leave any room for mounting holes (which I need)
I want to move the connections for the loop jacks to the inward facing part of the PCB and that creates a lot of vias (which I dont want). It's necessary, though, as with the old design, I had to use a vero PCB to connect the audio pads to the jacks (see picture 2 below).
So, I am planning to move the input an output jack to the left side (!) of the enclosure, move all the switches to the very right side (close to the control board) and also move the two amp-switching jacks tho the right side. The send and return jacks will have to be arranged above each other to create even more space (with the I/O jacks on the left side, the board needs to move to the right...).
Large enclosure, still space issues :-)
With all this work, it would be great to find out, if the US-based distributor for the BLOCAN Aluminum Cable Channel (Phoenix Mecano, https://www.phoenixmecano.com/products/mechanical-components/aluminum-cable-channel/) can cut 60 cm pieces and ship them for acceptable prices within North America. I will send them an email to find out.
Picture 1:
(https://i.postimg.cc/595scVKw/IMG-20181124-083613.jpg)
Picture 2:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNSTL4S3/IMG-20181124-083007.jpg)
Here is a picture of the current design with three mounting holes...
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JKnYczz/IMG-20181124-093714.jpg)
Quote from: Marshall Arts on November 26, 2018, 02:42:53 AM
Most difficult thing is to create space for the relay board. With the current jack placement (see picture 1 below), I am restricted to 5 cm in depth, and with the pricing for PCB manufacturers, I don't want exceed 10 cm in length. This doesnt leave any room for mounting holes (which I need)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Thanks for the hint, BUT: I decided for the Amp-Style jacks, because
- they are automatically bypassed, when nothing is inserted. So, your sound is not muted, when you engage an empty loop.
- they are insulated from the grounded enclosure. Might help with fixing ground loop issues, should they occur.
- I already used TRS-Jacks and you need y-cables for the loops. I might reduce the number of jacks by one, if I use a TRS for the "floating send/return" as well. I want to stick with TS Jacks for Input and Output (and might use the Lumbergs for them :-))
Quote from: brejna on November 18, 2018, 10:08:56 PM
Is it possible to add midi pc and cc messages? Also if you could design it to choose midi channel of each message, that would be awesome..
Sorry, my answer was not correct: Yesterday, I worked with my new HX stomp and tried to find out how to make presets, snapshots and midi-controlled bypass functions work for me. Obviously, I did not know enough about midi so far, as I always thought that CC messages were for continous controls only (pitch bend, modulation, ...). Here is what I found out and as a result, how I think I will implement midi into the Looper:
The HX Stomp (and presumably other Midi-Devices as well) is surprisingly static in terms of which PC/CC messages it expects to perform specific functions. Snapshot changes will always be done with CC 69 and value 0 (Snapshot 1), 1 (Snapshot 2) and 2 (snapshot 3).
Bypassing Blocks is more flexible (HX can be teached), but some CCs are system reserved.
As I guess, that this is not standardized, each button press on the looper will be able to send out no, one or more than one (!) PC and/or CC messages. I don't intend to add a a display to program the looper, so the configuration has to be done in the Arduino code (the message sequences will be functions, which you can customize to your preferences. It's not complicated and I will provide "building blocks", but with this approach, it would even be possible to send complex sequences, e.g. LFO-stuff via Midi :-))
I try to make the command sequences available as functions in the configuration at the very beginning of the code, this should not be too complicated). I will use a complete Arduino Nano on the PCBs, so an USB-upload is easy.
How does this work (for this example, but you can figure out what you can do with this approach). Well, with a single button press, I could change to an HX preset (PC message), activate one of the three snapshots (CC:69 message) and activate a specific block in that preset/snapshot (e.g. a boost, with a non-reserved CC message).
And as a movie is easier to understand than many words, here it is in action:
First button press changes to Preset 34C, Snapshot 3 (right footswitch) and activates a boost (tiny block in the display, hard to see) Second button press activates Preset 35A, Snapshot 1 (left footswitch) and deactivates the boost
That looks great. If I understand it correctly you would have 1 pc and cc per preset?
Also is this sent only through one midi channel?
Quote from: brejna on December 04, 2018, 10:38:49 PM
That looks great. If I understand it correctly you would have 1 pc and cc per preset?
Also is this sent only through one midi channel?
Actually, you can send a total of 7 PC and/or CC messages with one preset button press plus 7 codes from each of the loops (I call this feature "midi inherit", more on that later)
Here is the current version: Three boards, a lot of box headers and ribbon cable, two spillover loops, muted switching, send/return breakout for four-cable-setups (can be jumpered to be anywhere between loop 1 and loop 7), midi in and out, 6 Banks with 7 presets each, 4 amp switching functions,... . Rebuilding the code and the boards from scratch is going to take months, but I am getting there. Sorted out a lot of obstacles on the programming side (like shared GPIO Pins, EEPROM storage issues, MIDI issues). Waiting for some parts to test how MIDI IN works with arduino.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCSP2LXS/Control-Board-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/52T3sh1y/Control-Board-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bNY3r03y/Relay-Board-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHPXV1NW/Relay-Board-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JhXQvp4q/Spillover-Board-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XYpLcVRt/Spillover-Board-2.jpg)
Most important question for the builders in the US is how to get an enclosure. Guys, somebody needs to check availability of suitable aluminum cable channels in the US. It cannnot be that difficult, you need 60x8x4 cm (Length, width, depth) ... Please post any suggestions here (if I use google, I only get European results...).
That is awesome! I guess you won't add display?
Poslano sa mog Redmi Note 6 Pro koristeći Tapatalk
No, there will be no display. I would need more pins for that, and square holes might be a challenge for some of us. I will have three LEDs representing the 6 banks (came up with a fancy idea: green (g) -yellow (y) -red (r), arranged in a circle, so the banks will be g, g+y, y, y+r, r, r+g). There will be a standard midi configuration (what it spits out for each of the buttons), but it will be easily customizable with changes in the arduino code. Also, I will have a special bank for midi-macros (e.g. lfo-midi-cc-messages) which I plan to show in the creative use of diy-equipment contest ;-)
Nice
That is really far out clever and amazing! Hours and hours and hours of work in there for sure. Good on ya!
Quote from: brejna on November 18, 2018, 10:08:56 PM
Is it possible to add midi pc and cc messages? Also if you could design it to choose midi channel of each message, that would be awesome..
Sorted out how this works, could not be more easy... Each midi message contains three bytes, so a complete CC would be something like this:
Serial.write(176); //176 = CC on channel 1
Serial.write(4); // Control #
Serial.write(127); // Value to transmit: 0 = off, 127 = on
To change the channel e.g. to channel 2, I need to transmit "177" instead of "176" for the first byte. Here is the list for CC and PC messages for each of the 16 midi channels.
| 1st byte (hex) | 1st byte (dec) | Function | 2nd byte | 3rd byte |
| 0xB0 | 176 | Chan 1 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB1 | 177 | Chan 2 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB2 | 178 | Chan 3 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB3 | 179 | Chan 4 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB4 | 180 | Chan 5 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB5 | 181 | Chan 6 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB6 | 182 | Chan 7 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB7 | 183 | Chan 8 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB8 | 184 | Chan 9 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xB9 | 185 | Chan 10 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBA | 186 | Chan 11 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBB | 187 | Chan 12 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBC | 188 | Chan 13 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBD | 189 | Chan 14 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBE | 190 | Chan 15 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xBF | 191 | Chan 16 Control mode change | Control # | Value (0-127) |
| 0xC0 | 192 | Chan 1 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC1 | 193 | Chan 2 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC2 | 194 | Chan 3 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC3 | 195 | Chan 4 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC4 | 196 | Chan 5 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC5 | 197 | Chan 6 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC6 | 198 | Chan 7 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC7 | 199 | Chan 8 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC8 | 200 | Chan 9 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xC9 | 201 | Chan 10 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCA | 202 | Chan 11 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCB | 203 | Chan 12 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCC | 204 | Chan 13 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCD | 205 | Chan 14 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCE | 206 | Chan 15 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
| 0xCF | 207 | Chan 16 Program change | Program # (0-127) | - |
Here is what I think will work for most of us:
This looper has two rows:
- The upper row controls a total of 8 individual "blocks". A block can be a real amp channel, a real loop or something you can switch on or off in a digital device. With this being said, the top row
- switches relays (for amp channel switching or real loop switching) and
- sends out CC messages (for activation of "virtual" stompboxes via Midi).
- The top row does not send out PC messages (would not make sense for me).
- The lower row has 7 preset buttons (plus bank up and down). Each of them stores one combination of the status of the eight blocks.
- Besides setting the status of the 8 top row blocks,
- each of the 7 buttons sends out one PC message...
- and one CC message.
I do it this way, because my HX stomp uses PC Messages to change to another preset and CC messages to activate a specific snapshot.
As the unit wont have a display, you will be able to freely change your midi setup through the code. Everything will be in the top section of the code, so the lower row for bank 1 would look something like this:
{ //Bank 0
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 0}}, //Preset 0
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 0}}, //Preset 1
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 0}}, //Preset 2
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 1}}, //Preset 3
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 1}}, //Preset 4
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 2}}, //Preset 5
{{192, 1, 99}, {176, 69, 2}}, //Preset 6
},
...in plain text: All seven buttons use the same preset (99), the PC message is sent via channel 1 (192, channel 2 would be 193,..). Buttons 1-3 are snapshot 1 (third byte "0"), 4-5 are snapshot 2 (third byte "1"), 6-7 are snapshot 3 (third byte "2"). In this case, the CC messages are sent via channel 1 as well (hence the "176") over control "69" (which is hardcoded in the HX stomp).
Does this make sense to you guys?
Great work! You said you don't need i upper row pc and cc messages... I think that it would be nice to have pc and cc in upper row, for example I have strymons and I want to control effect change and on/off directly through midi.
How many midi changes can we do per preset?
If I understand it right, 1 pc and 1cc per preset?
Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
Great work! You said you don't need i upper row pc and cc messages... I think that it would be nice to have pc and cc in upper row, for example I have strymons and I want to control effect change and on/off directly through midi.
How many midi changes can we do per preset?
If I understand it right, 1 pc and 1cc per preset?
1 PC and 1 cc per preset (lower row). Top row only cc, but the source is free... :-)
Double post..
Quote from: Marshall Arts on December 19, 2018, 12:29:25 PM
Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
Great work! You said you don't need i upper row pc and cc messages... I think that it would be nice to have pc and cc in upper row, for example I have strymons and I want to control effect change and on/off directly through midi.
How many midi changes can we do per preset?
If I understand it right, 1 pc and 1cc per preset?
1 PC and 1 cc per preset (lower row). Top row only cc, but the source is free... :-)
Anyway I wanted to learn little bit about code and programming.. :)
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Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on December 19, 2018, 12:29:25 PM
Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
Great work! You said you don't need i upper row pc and cc messages... I think that it would be nice to have pc and cc in upper row, for example I have strymons and I want to control effect change and on/off directly through midi.
How many midi changes can we do per preset?
If I understand it right, 1 pc and 1cc per preset?
1 PC and 1 cc per preset (lower row). Top row only cc, but the source is free... :-)
Anyway I wanted to learn little bit about code and programming.. :)
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Just for you, I'll make it 1pc and 1cc on the top row as well. Cannot hurt.
Quote from: Marshall Arts on December 19, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on December 19, 2018, 12:29:25 PM
Quote from: brejna on December 19, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
Great work! You said you don't need i upper row pc and cc messages... I think that it would be nice to have pc and cc in upper row, for example I have strymons and I want to control effect change and on/off directly through midi.
How many midi changes can we do per preset?
If I understand it right, 1 pc and 1cc per preset?
1 PC and 1 cc per preset (lower row). Top row only cc, but the source is free... :-)
Anyway I wanted to learn little bit about code and programming.. :)
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Just for you, I'll make it 1pc and 1cc on the top row as well. Cannot hurt.
Thanks a lot! Appreciate it.
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Took the time over the holidays to read a bit about midi switchers and how they work. The biggest challenge is actually to make them programmable on the fly (i.e. without connecting a computer and uploading a sketch to the arduino). I don't know, if I will be able to program this, but if, I will need an external eeprom for this (as the nano's internal is too small). So, I ordered a 24LC256 today, which will be connected via the I2C bus (Pins A4 and A5 on the nano). And as I am using the port I also ordered a 4 digit 7 segment I2C enabled display:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1004/5324/products/ID879_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1478022002)
Currently aiming at a system with up to 7 (!) midi commands per button (PC, CC or Note) with configurable toggle values. Software-wise, I will try to publish this in a later release, but I want to make sure, that the hardware can be used for this. Programming will be done with the buttons (still a painful procedure for more complex setups, but a lot of midi controllers take that approach, e.g. the Behringer FCB1010 or my Oxygen O2 keyboard...).
This project is getting better and better.. [emoji106]
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Update: The display arrived and was really easy to assemble and to get up and running. I am using an external 32k EEPROM for the Banks and Presets, and with the display, I am now able to store:
- 60 Banks with 7 Presets in each bank.
- Each preset can send up to 7 Midi Commands (PC/CC, each with individual Midi Channel). CC's on preset buttons don't toggle between values.
- Each Loop Button (top row) can also send 7 Midi Commands (PC/CC, each with individual Midi Channel). CCs on Loop Buttons can toggle between two values (e.g. 0 for "Block Off" and 127 for "Block On"). The two values can be set freely for each CC.
- Now the crazy bit: A Loop Button recalls a stored set of loop states (e.g. Loop 1-2 on, Loop 3-8 off). With each of the loops being able to send out a sequence of Midi Commands themselves, the activation of a preset will trigger its own Midi Commands but also the commands for each of the loops (e.g. send CCs for Loop 1-2 with a value 127 and CCs for Loop 3-8 with value 0). IF A PRESET BUTTON TRIGGERS THESE SUBSEQUENT MIDI-EVENTS from the loopstates or not can be defined for each preset.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qR8cHsHS/IMG-20190105-171133.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvBcQMHV/IMG-20190105-171506.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxGb7691/IMG-20190106-073426.jpg)
I don't even know what half of that means and I'm STILL excited about it :D
This thing is getting hardcore.
Quote from: gordo on January 06, 2019, 06:17:16 AM
I don't even know what half of that means and I'm STILL excited about it :D
This thing is getting hardcore.
Great, Gordo, thanks.
In an only-midi-world, that means, that you can assemble complex presets for multi-midi -device rigs and activate them with one button press. In addition, you can still toggle individual blocks within a preset on and off.
But the world is not plain midi : You can combine the above with looped analog pedals AND Amp channel switching.
I am eager to get this done over the next months. .. Total material costs would be around 120 EUR, incl Buttons, Enclosure, Jack's, Components... And a lot of DIY Time (offboard jacks, LEDs and switches, Display Cutout,... ).
Still, very, very competitive to market solutions. I would love to create a feature matrix of midi loopers for comparison. I guess that this thing falls short in loop order (it's fixed) and maybe editing convenience.
That's really so far out there! Amazeballs!
This is beyond intense.
So with the press of a button you could switch analog pedals, an amp channel, midi presets on a couple of pedals, and a backing track on ableton or something of the like. :o
I think the next logical evolution is to have a switch for "keyboard" mode where you can use the foot switches to control a virtual instrument like drums or a bass synth. ;D
Quote from: Aristatertotle on January 06, 2019, 03:02:56 PM
This is beyond intense.
So with the press of a button you could switch analog pedals, an amp channel, midi presets on a couple of pedals, and a backing track on ableton or something of the like. :o
Yes. Actually, you could have ableton trigger the Looper as well during the playback (it has midi in for program changes as well) :-)
I skipped midi notes for now, to not loose focus.
Room is starting to spin...I'm feeling a little diz.....
Did some Audio testing today, unfortunately, the Display produces Major interference through gnd and/or vcc.... Damn. Anybody experience with Displays? This one uses a HT16K33 chip for Multiplexing. I dont want to add a filter circuit, if I dont have to, so a Display that just multiplexes when it has to Show a new number would be better (as Audio is muted during switching anyways...
...when your imagination exceeds your breadboard size ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/dQgZ1Y2d/IMG-20190120-120718.jpg)
Needed to put it all together to be able to measure power consumptions. With all eight loops on, it will be somewhere between 400 to 450 mA @ 9 Volts. Kind of what the commercial pedals (Boss etc.) use as well, so it's not too bad....
Progress: I ordered another display, that is not driven by an HT16K33 but a TM1637:
https://www.az-delivery.de/products/4-digit-display?ls=de&cache=false
Bad news is, that I need another free pin on the Arduino, as it is not adressed via i2c, so I will likely have to reduce the number of preset buttons from 7 to 6... fair enough and no big deal with 60 banks available.
Concerning the enclosure (Blocan Cable Channel)
(https://www.rk-rose-krieger.com/fileadmin/images/rk-rose-krieger/aktuelles/neuheiten/profiltechnik/Titel_Kabelkanal_Alu.jpg)
As it seems to be hard to find in the US, I found a good google search term: Aluminum Extrusion Enclosure
(http://www.enclosuresandcasesinc.com/images/flanged_01.jpg?crc=4141097319)
Did not check on prices for custom length though. Any other suggestions welcome (maybe the US guys could have a look in their local hardware stores for alternatives).
Required size: 8 cm (3,15") deep, 4 cm (1,57") high, 60 cm (23,6") long. Please post suggestions here.
I can offer no help but this thing looks absolutely amazing. I love watching the progress
Too bad... The new display produces interference as well, so both drivers (HT16K33 and TM1637) fail so far due to multiplexing noise. I will try to fix it with a separate power supply and filter caps, but search for better solutions goes on, support welcome. Does anybody know of a DIY-Pedal with 7 segment displays (3-4 digits), where I could get some inspiration?
Quote from: Marshall Arts on January 22, 2019, 11:45:29 PM
Too bad... The new display produces interference as well, so both drivers (HT16K33 and TM1637) fail so far due to multiplexing noise. I will try to fix it with a separate power supply and filter caps, but search for better solutions goes on, support welcome. Does anybody know of a DIY-Pedal with 7 segment displays (3-4 digits), where I could get some inspiration?
I think Thomas from thcustom effects had developed switcher with 2 or 3 digits..
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Here is link http://diy.thcustom.com/pedal-controller/
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Thanks. What a crazy project. Thomas is my hero :-). It uses a separate shift register / decoder, stuff I currently cannot deal with (not enough time).
I will try to separate the power supply for the LED display and see how that helps.
Finally fixed it. Filtered the power for the display with an RC low pass filter (390 R and 1000 uF). Will play around with values and display brightness over the weekend, but I consider this problem to be solved.
Great news! What is next? :)
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Quote from: brejna on January 24, 2019, 11:39:16 AM
Great news! What is next? :)
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- Minor tweaks.
- Re-Program for Alphanumeric Display instead of plain number display (same driver, no issues expected).
- PCB makeover: Buffered input, separate AGND and DGND. Extra DC filter in power supply (copy from proco Rat).
- order PCBs. :-)
Put me down for this. I still haven't finished the Linda but could probably reuse the enclosure. This is very exciting.
Testing rig... Quite a setup. Everything works, though. Finalizing PCBs and fine tune on a completed build in some weeks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/435Xknrb/IMG-20190128-195734.jpg)
Yep there's a few wires and stuff on the breadboards....! Amazing work!
Mad Professor level... ;)
This is so sweet.
I have that same midi controller! It can be a handy little guy.
With the new design (Bank up/down, display) , I will have to rearrange some buttons, and as the old looper is working, I decided to order a new enclosure. Well, actually three, because the supplier would charge 25 € extra if I ordered only one. The good news: The new enclosure is only 59 cm rather than 60 cm long. Why? Because 60 cm is the limit for international shipping without going bancrupt. So, with packaging, I can stay under 60 cm. Still, it's not cheap:
I will have two enclosures to sell, 36 € each (inclunding the end lids and screws) plus shipping (and maybe some customs).
Shipping:
4,93 Germany
8,89 EU
15,89 International
As I said, it's not cheap, but if someone is interested, PM me. Of course, I will only ship it once everything is build and tested and I would include the PCBs (in the usual price range) as well...
Boards are designed and I will order them in the next weeks. Waiting for 17 momentary switches from aliexpress... 40 days, they say...
Meanwhile starting to work on documentation:
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7QgH8nc/Zwischenablage02.jpg)
What a project.... wicked!
Can't wait to see final build..
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1st is Version one. 2nd is for me. 3rd is pre-ordered if the PCBs work. 4th can still be preorderd.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1ZN6pKk/IMG-20190208-191207.jpg)
Quote from: brejna on February 08, 2019, 12:49:31 AM
Can't wait to see final build..
It's coming, and I've never been more excited with a build. I have updated the enclosure labelling (see above) and added all the information needed for editing the midi commands with the footswitches (longpress L7 to enter edit mode, P1-P7 and L1-L3 for entering numbers, L6 to enter a value) and mute for tuning (longpress L1).
Finetuning the PCBs to fit under all the buttons is a lot of work. A lot of high-rise components (especially headers)...
A little more than three months of development later... I ordered PCBs today.
Very cool. I'm good for one.
I knew it was going to be a PITA to make that square hole, but actually, it's not that bad...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKpx7v1m/IMG-20190216-183103.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGbPC1NT/IMG-20190216-184856.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxSfHrXq/IMG-20190216-204400.jpg)
In that stuff I think it's easier to make a square hole than a round one :-)
Definitely doesn't like drill bits.
The downside to all this is that it's likely going to torpedo the Linda Looper I never quite finished. It's THIS close to being completed...
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVXd2LSc/IMG-20190217-143923.jpg)
Looks great, I was tinking to maybe do it in 3 rows..
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First Jacks arrived... looking good so far, also with the placement of the PCBs. Bummer: The mounting holes in the PCB are too big (radius <> diameter :o)
(https://i.postimg.cc/63XHZnCT/IMG-20190220-115458.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/j28vB1mJ/IMG-20190220-115520.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HnWBZmZg/IMG-20190220-115543.jpg)
I will use rubber feet on the rear side (and tiny ones on the front): Easier access to rear footswitch row (loop row) and ideal for using pancake jacks. Probably will use a bit higher feet ...
(https://i.postimg.cc/44r1HzZG/IMG-20190220-120530.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y243Sd58/IMG-20190220-120600.jpg)
Perfect :o
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsxjWKGk/IMG-20190221-181448.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRg2VDdP/IMG-20190221-181710.jpg)
This is looking so awesome! Seriously nice work
Quote from: gordo on February 16, 2019, 04:29:41 PM
The downside to all this is that it's likely going to torpedo the Linda Looper I never quite finished. It's THIS close to being completed...
If this all works out, I am selling my Linda Looper :-).
Working on the documentation. Hope that this image explains better, what happens
- on incoming Midi events
- when a Preset Button is pressed
- when a Loop button is pressed
(https://i.postimg.cc/SND9P06q/8oo3-Switching-Logic.png)
The most functional looper/switcher ever.. All you need is one bank [emoji4]
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Labeled and everything...(https://www.gordomusic.com/Madbean/LindaLooper.jpg)
Quote from: gordo on February 23, 2019, 09:35:52 AM
Labeled and everything...(https://www.gordomusic.com/Madbean/LindaLooper.jpg)
Man. I am really sorry... Where did yet the enclosure from? I heard that it was a hard catch outside from Germany...
I'll go thru my paperwork. It was a lot of detective work and it was sold as wire channel for high end modular furniture. Cost me a fortune but is very cool. I suspect if a bunch of us bought it the price might be more reasonable.
I am sure you can reuse it for the new version... Seriously!
How nice is this? They even send a picture before they ship stuff ;-)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ncppR1ft/elecrow.jpg)
Minor issues: Holes are to large for screws - no big deal. Unfortunately the legs from the Neutrik Jacks are too big for the holes on the respective PCBs. Bummer, I took the component from the madbean library and modified it for TRS-use, but I did not check the pad diameter. The jacks will go ON the PCB rather than THROUGH the PCB...
If anybody is looking for the correct footprint for the Neutrik NRJ6HF, I found it here: https://www.elektronikpage.net/eagle-bibliotheken/
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGJ4ZxS4/IMG-20190228-182025.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1g7svKk/IMG-20190228-183050.jpg)
When can we expect final build? :) Btw. I noticed that orientation is backwords, input and all.. Probably you like to use wah on the left side..
Quote from: brejna on February 28, 2019, 11:20:26 AM
When can we expect final build? :) Btw. I noticed that orientation is backwords, input and all.. Probably you like to use wah on the left side..
Well observed... Yes... I am left footed :-) build will take some more time, maybe mid march:-)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QMT6kSd/IMG-20190301-182523.jpg)
Clipping the legs of the Neutrik jacks to make them thinner works to some degree...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQMqFPMP/IMG-20190302-083746.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7h0y3C44/IMG-20190302-083918.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4GWsc7L/IMG-20190302-084545.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XYLFy3gp/IMG-20190302-180401.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z54pR0pG/IMG-20190302-181250.jpg)
Update:
I decided on a device name, "Eoo3", which stands for "Eight out of 3". Eight switching functions from three domains: Pedal looping, Amp Switching, Midi Control. For digits, so it's easy to display on the display on startup :)
The control board (responsible for Midi in, Midi out, Storage access, button and LED control, power supply) works. My major concern was, that the cable tree would become too fat on the right side, but it fits with no problems:
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zLZ1qMK/IMG-20190310-105730.jpg)
Cable tree under the lid:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvgNFHh2/IMG-20190310-105711.jpg)
Side view - tight, but I will print small PCB holders to keep the PCB away from the enclosure. Easy to access USB port for software updates/Midi programs:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGgphp0S/IMG-20190310-103729.jpg)
Two short videos showing Midi functions:
Midi Out: Preset Changes modify Loops/Blocks/Snapshots/Presets on a Line6 HX
Midi In: Midi changes sent from a keyboard activate presets/banks on the Eoo3 which again modify Loops/Blocks/Snapshots/Presets on a Line6 HX:
Oh man, that are great news! When can we get pcbs?
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I still have to do the relay boards (responsible for loop switching, tuner out, switch mute, spillover, send/return, amp switching). I am confident, that these will work, as these are less complex. Still, I want to
- complete my build,
- test and hear that thing (hopefully no noise issues) and
- do the documentation and
- some video demos,
so people know what to expect before they dive into this really complex, time consuming and - given the amount of switches, relays and the enclosure - not cheap build.
So, sorry to say this will take some more weeks (being a weekend builder...)
Wow! :o Cool ;D
This looks amazing MA. It will definitely be on my list of things to build in 2019!
(http://www.taobytyler.com/index_files/image2004.jpg)
Woah. This looks amazing.
I built one of the infamous "effectblade" loopers a few years ago and it works, but I'm still very tempted by this.
Finalized my build so far. Having some issues with the relay board, i. e. the send / return. Probably will order new boards with a fixed send/return between loop 4 and 5. Too bad...
But: Here is a demo without loop 4/5 in the audio path (activate subtitles for explanation) :
Absolutely brilliant work, Matthias! Super cool in every way! 8)
Oh man I need this...
Quote from: gordo on March 18, 2019, 07:09:05 AM
Oh man I need this...
I ordered new PCBs today (Relay Board and Jack PCBs). The relay board is simplified (no more jumpers) and will hopefully work better. The jack PCBs have larger holes, so the jacks will be easier to mount. Another few weeks, but it's worth the wait.
Looking forward to see you guys put this together. It's offboard madness - crimping part of the components helps, but still... a crazy amount of cable cutting, stripping,... plus the amount of work for the enclosure including a square hole for the display, the 17 momentary switches, 12 relays, 13 jacks, mounting the PCBs with screws (I even did some threading). Building it is more like building an amp than a stompbox. And when you're done, you can dive into eeprom configuration (it's absolutely doable, not really programming), if you're not happy with the default configuration.
You have been warned. Hopefully, you guys will still communicate with me after this ;-)
I'm totally on board with this. I was the only guitar player this weekend and had to jump in and out of delayed lead parts and rhythm parts with corresponding channel changes and tails (similar problem to playing the Limelight solo by Rush with one guitar) and brought the possibilities of this project front and center. My setup is usually dead simple (although I use an fx loop and channel switching) but would be nice to be able to automate.
Quote from: gordo on March 18, 2019, 02:00:02 PM
I'm totally on board with this. I was the only guitar player this weekend and had to jump in and out of delayed lead parts and rhythm parts with corresponding channel changes and tails (similar problem to playing the Limelight solo by Rush with one guitar) and brought the possibilities of this project front and center. My setup is usually dead simple (although I use an fx loop and channel switching) but would be nice to be able to automate.
I feel your pain, seems like we have similar setups. I usually get away with few effects (boost, drive, chorus, delay, reverb) an I never seem to change their pots. I need amp channel switching, though. And I also need the fx loop for the time based effects. I usually get away with 6-7 sounds for a show, so one bank might indeed be enough for me. I will use the other banks for other environments (acoustic guitar, recording just with my HX stomp, using another amp ...).
For the spillover, I have some not so good news (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=28875.msg285605#msg285605). It's not as bad as it sounds, but is something worth knowing before starting to work on this.
The best part of any project is always THIS:
Quote from: Marshall Arts on March 23, 2019, 01:56:37 AM
I feel your pain, seems like we have similar setups.
Sounds like it. I've been using this little 6505mh lately (in a church!!!) and the sound is just so killer that I'm finding that I just need 'more/different/compression/univibe' at the front end and then 'modulation/delay/reverb' in the loop. Channel switching is limited to Clean/Crunch and every now and then Lead. Normally it's pretty straight forward but from time to time it's a bit of tap dancing. I was using a JMK Epic Looper for Midi and a Yamaha Acoustic stomp or Amp stomp as a fly rig depending on what I was playing till I managed to blow up the Epic (trying to retrofit into a chunk of the cool enclosure you're using). Normally I don't use Midi in my live rig but might have to rethink the whole thing when you release this. I'm feeling another rabbit hole presenting itself...
Quote
For the spillover, I have some not so good news (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=28875.msg285605#msg285605). It's not as bad as it sounds, but is something worth knowing before starting to work on this.
In my case it would be well worth the effort. And why make things simple :D
Seems like I will need to build a smaller board. Power supply (top right), patchbox (top left) and the separate power supply for the HX stomp (9V, 3 A is too much for the palmer power brick) will go below the Helicon, the King of tone and the HX...
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZKZxfwv/IMG-20190330-164305.jpg)
Still waiting for the Relay PCBs and writing on documentation.
8) 8) 8)
Nothing but good news today:
The new relay board arrived and it's working perfectly:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nfkrn2Kv/IMG-20190404-194616.jpg)
While soldering it in, I discovered a cold solder joint in the mute-while-switching-block. Fixed it, now there is only a little, totally acceptable pop noise when switching EVEN IN SPILLOVER MODE in loops 7 and 8.
So, it's almost done. I would love to add a mute function for tuning to one of the loop buttons (activated when held down, deactivated with another press). Also have to write the documentation, which will not only be a build guide, but also a user guide.
For those keen on boards, I can promise you, that the boards (a set of 6 boards for one looper) will be up for sale latest on 20th of April. I will let you know in this thread.
I definitely will grab a set of the Eoo3 boards!...i noticed the 5v relays used are different from Linda.
Count me in for a set of boards, this is awesome.
Quote from: artstomp on April 04, 2019, 03:06:44 PM
I definitely will grab a set of the Eoo3 boards!...i noticed the 5v relays used are different from Linda.
Correct... No specific reason for that, though. I use these smaller relays in small enclosures and they save some space on these PCBs as well. They aren't more pricey, so I use these for the Eoo3 now.
Quote from: gordo on February 23, 2019, 05:41:53 PM
I'll go thru my paperwork. It was a lot of detective work and it was sold as wire channel for high end modular furniture. Cost me a fortune but is very cool. I suspect if a bunch of us bought it the price might be more reasonable.
Gordo... Did you find your source for the cable channel? I would include that in the documentation, if possible...
Thanks!
Great work!
I'm at the beginning of a similar project, will probably steal some of your ideas :)
Quote from: Marshall Arts on April 05, 2019, 07:56:37 AM
Gordo... Did you find your source for the cable channel? I would include that in the documentation, if possible...
Major brain fade. I'm sure I kept the paperwork. I'll dig thru my files over the weekend and see what I can come up with.
Easier than I thought:
Phoenix Mecano Inc.
7330 Executive Way
Frederick, Maryland 21704
USA
Contact Us: 301-696-9411
PMinfo@pm-usa.com
Here's what I ordered:
4E25000.1000 $44.91 KK-80x40 CABLE CHANNEL PROFILE 1000mm LENGTH, NO FIXING HOLES
4E25501 $22.90 END COVER PLATE FOR KK 80X40 EXTRUSION QTY 6 PIECES/SET
4E16501 $5.21 SELF TAPPING SCREWS ISO 7049 ST 3.5x9.5 mm FORM F FOR KK 80X40 EXTRUSION, QTY 12/SET
FEDEX FRT $23.76 FEDEXPKG 11/06/15
Updated Post as I ran out of enclosures AND German Post changed their conditions:
PCBs:
The set of 6 PCB's for the looper will include:
- 15 Jack PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you only need 8 of them)
- 8 Loop Button PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you need all 8 of them)
- 10 Preset Button PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you only need 7 of them)
- 1 Control Board (for the Arduino Nano, the Shift registers, the Power connection, Midi in and out and the Button connections)
- 1 Spillover Board (for Amp Switching and Spillover Loops seven and eight)
- 1 Relay Board (for the Input Buffer, Loops 1-6, send/return)
- 12 Distance rings for the PCBs
25,- EUR
Shipping and packaging (EU): 5€
Shipping and packaging (Non-EU): 9€
If you want to get one set, here is the link to the preorder-thread: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=29576.msg286399#msg286399
Quote from: BaklavaMetal on April 05, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
Great work!
I'm at the beginning of a similar project, will probably steal some of your ideas :)
Sure, go ahead! If it is arduino-based, you can get my code as well (open source). Start a thread about your project, after Eoo3 kept me busy for almost half a year now, I want to see other's people blood, sweat and tears ;-)
Sneak preview to the build instructions is here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fcI5jA6YYXIW2EB2IstDTa2jn_rYqjTwpnxSjpnpeZA). 29 pages already, including many pictures, still some work to do!
The documentation (and source code) is growing, so here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lKUyPn5B468xeWaGFZhAdqgFoZD4oujD) is the link for the complete folder (many documents still in progress, but the build doc will be good enough to build your own by the end of the week)!
I can start hoarding parts.
Quote from: gordo on April 11, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
I can start hoarding parts.
Yes you can. The build doc is finalized in Version 1 (read on...)
Concerning the documentation, I would love to try something new: Obviously, I am not a native speaker, and obviously, being the designer of the Eoo3, my build and use instructions might be sub-ideal for builders, who don't know all the details of this design by heart. This being said, I had the idea to write the documentation completely in google docs and I would open this up to anybody, who would like to contribute to improve it language and content-with the target to optimize the building experience.
Would you like to contribute? Than PM me, please!
Thanks, Timko and Gordo for offering to collaborate. I suggest you focus on the build instructions document, I will continue to write the operation manual which you could review afterwards ;-)
I already created an overview of the functions for the user guide:
(https://i.postimg.cc/26TCvwLS/Overview.jpg)
Quote from: artstomp on April 04, 2019, 03:06:44 PM
I definitely will grab a set of the Eoo3 boards!...i noticed the 5v relays used are different from Linda.
Hi artstomp - I tried to send you a PM, but the forum says your inbox is full ;-)
Please drop your name in the preorder list (and maybe empty your inbox): http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=29576.msg286399#msg286399
Thanks!!
Quote from: Marshall Arts on April 13, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Thanks, Timko and Gordo for offering to collaborate. I suggest you focus on the build instructions document, I will continue to write the operation manual which you could review afterwards ;-)
I already created an overview of the functions for the user guide:
(https://i.postimg.cc/26TCvwLS/Overview.jpg)
I have some free time this weekend and plan to start going through the document paragraph by paragraph.
Quote from: Timko on April 19, 2019, 09:02:34 AM
Quote from: Marshall Arts on April 13, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Thanks, Timko and Gordo for offering to collaborate. I suggest you focus on the build instructions document, I will continue to write the operation manual which you could review afterwards ;-)
I already created an overview of the functions for the user guide:
(https://i.postimg.cc/26TCvwLS/Overview.jpg)
I have some free time this weekend and plan to start going through the document paragraph by paragraph.
Thanks,... I am sure, there are some Easter eggs in it :-)
And I'm outta town to spend a few days with friends and then back at it Sunday night so I'll have some time this coming week.
Quote from: gordo on April 19, 2019, 05:08:56 PM
And I'm outta town to spend a few days with friends and then back at it Sunday night so I'll have some time this coming week.
Great! Please try, if you have access already :-)
I just finished my suggested revisions.
For anyone attempting this build, a protip:
Read the entire build doc first. All 47 pages of it. Then read it again. It's dense and has lots of steps, but MA did a good job of breaking it all down.
Thanks a lot, Timko! I will go through it the next days and also finish the owner manual. I know, it's a lot, but it's also a bit more complicated than a tube screamer :-) ...
My new board, build around the Eoo3:
- 1 Loop (Queen of Bone)
- 2 Amp Switch functions (Channel and Boost)
- 5 digital effects controlled via midi (Delay, Reverb, 2x Modulation, Master Volume Boost)
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=18908.msg287431#msg287431
Operational Manual finalized as well. Everything you need (code, documentation, drill templates, images, ...) is here
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lKUyPn5B468xeWaGFZhAdqgFoZD4oujD
Enjoy!
Absolutely monumental and brilliant work! Excellent show of the genius of DIY and how you managed to adapt it to your requirements.
Amazeballs! 8)
Quote from: Marshall Arts on April 07, 2019, 06:29:43 AM
Updated Post as I ran out of enclosures AND German Post changed their conditions:
PCBs:
The set of 6 PCB's for the looper will include:
- 15 Jack PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you only need 8 of them)
- 8 Loop Button PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you need all 8 of them)
- 10 Preset Button PCBs (on a v-slotted board, you only need 7 of them)
- 1 Control Board (for the Arduino Nano, the Shift registers, the Power connection, Midi in and out and the Button connections)
- 1 Spillover Board (for Amp Switching and Spillover Loops seven and eight)
- 1 Relay Board (for the Input Buffer, Loops 1-6, send/return)
- 12 Distance rings for the PCBs
25,- EUR
Shipping and packaging (EU): 5€
Shipping and packaging (Non-EU): 9€
If you want to get one set, here is the link to the preorder-thread: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=29576.msg286399#msg286399
Hi, is this still available? :)
Yes. I send you a PM.
Hello everyone, it's my first time here and boy oh boy what a wonderful forum this is! I might need to start a new thread for my own programmable looper build which is coming very soon... But I have a couple of questions that the experienced looper builders might be able to help with :D
I have separated stomp unit and relay unit (to add new stuff whenever needed and be more versatile away from the pedalboard
So the stomp unit has a touch screen to be programmed easily. The relay unit features 10 loops, midi out, 4 amp switches, switchable buffers for input and output (adjustable gain too) and I am currently working on the trails mixer for loops 9 & 10. But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, how do I get rid of the true bypass relay pops? I've been reading about true bypass for days, and it seems to come down to either accepting the pop, or muting the output for 10-20ms until the switching is complete.... So what are your thoughts? Which circuit do you use for that job, and whych parts do you mute, output only?
Thanks for your patience...
Vangelis
Quote from: vagos21 on November 23, 2019, 06:27:29 AM
Hello everyone, it's my first time here and boy oh boy what a wonderful forum this is! I might need to start a new thread for my own programmable looper build which is coming very soon... But I have a couple of questions that the experienced looper builders might be able to help with :D
I have separated stomp unit and relay unit (to add new stuff whenever needed and be more versatile away from the pedalboard
So the stomp unit has a touch screen to be programmed easily. The relay unit features 10 loops, midi out, 4 amp switches, switchable buffers for input and output (adjustable gain too) and I am currently working on the trails mixer for loops 9 & 10. But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, how do I get rid of the true bypass relay pops? I've been reading about true bypass for days, and it seems to come down to either accepting the pop, or muting the output for 10-20ms until the switching is complete.... So what are your thoughts? Which circuit do you use for that job, and whych parts do you mute, output only?
Thanks for your patience...
Vangelis
See schematics for the E003. I use a solid state relay to mute just the output for 10 ms. However, another problem is a couple of leds changing, which might feed back into the power or Gnd rail. This is nasty, esp. With delays in the spillover loops. Read r. G keen for some approaches on how to fade in leds slowly to prevent popping.
Thank you for the fast reply doc! I already implemented the 10ms output grounding, but it was still popping right after the silence. So I decided to look elsewhere, and what would you know, it's the op amp of the blend circuit, caused by something they call input offset voltage? :) Reading and learning forever! It creates 15mV on output, which results in a wild pop when the blend is activated/deactivated. So now I'll have to either choose a more expensive op amp or find a good way to adjust that offset :) did you run into similar problems?
I only have blend circuits in the spillover loops, and it's actually not too much popping. Can you point us to the sources you found? And maybe a schematic of that part of the circuit? And yes, maybe a separate thread in this forum to discuss your circuit and how to fix it...
Marshall Arts,
Forgive me for getting a bit technical here, in your spillover schematic, i see the return signal gets into the mixer, and the IN signal gets buffered and then into the mixer. shouldn't both stages be buffered before blending? Doesn't it affect the tone? I'm a newbie, i'm just asking to learn ;D
And a second question, the return is always sent to the mixer, even if the spillover is not used. so it's split into the mixer and the output. Doesn't this create impedance mismatch affecting the tone again?
In my version of the spillover, i use 3 relays to make sure the signal doesn't get split there. Is it useless to do so?
I hope i explained these well, thank you for your patience!
I will draw schematics by hand and upload them when i get some more time 8)
Different approaches have been discussed in this thread
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emadbeanpedals%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D28875%2E0&share_tid=28875&share_fid=53198&share_type=t&link_source=app
P. S. The E003 uses jumper switches to change loop 7 and 8 to true bypass loops. The return signal is buffered by the effects in the loop. I Breadboarded a lot, and this solution was the best I found.
Wow thank you endlessly for all the info and links! I will give it a shot today or tomorrow on my ever changing breadboard ::)
And one last question, do you think it's worth it to include phase reversal for blending? I mean, did you come across any cases where it was needed? as far as i can see, it's not included in the looper schematics?
Thank you for everything, will post results as soon as it's all done :) that color LCD looks really nice with every bit of info on it, also the touch screen makes it a breeze to program
I decided to skip phase reversal... Never needed it...
Marshall Arts, I visited, examined and tested everything you suggested in that link, but things didn't work out well... On the other hand, your looper schematic works perfectly in terms of tone and volume and function, it's really amazing! BUT I still get that huge pop when spillover is turned on or off via relay, it's not that innocent bypass pop, it's something else... Measuring voltage at the output Jack I get 0V when bypassed, 0V when fx is on, but 1.1V (!!) When spillover is activated (constantly). It's that big voltage difference that makes the huge pop... Any ideas on that?
Quote from: vagos21 on November 27, 2019, 10:58:46 AM
Marshall Arts, I visited, examined and tested everything you suggested in that link, but things didn't work out well... On the other hand, your looper schematic works perfectly in terms of tone and volume and function, it's really amazing! BUT I still get that huge pop when spillover is turned on or off via relay, it's not that innocent bypass pop, it's something else... Measuring voltage at the output Jack I get 0V when bypassed, 0V when fx is on, but 1.1V (!!) When spillover is activated (constantly). It's that big voltage difference that makes the huge pop... Any ideas on that?
Is that 1.1 V DC? Hard to imagine, as the only connection to the output is a cap (e. G c27 for loop 7) and a resistor to Gnd (r52) for bypass in spillover mode. For fx on in spillover mode it's just the return signal and a resistor to Gnd (r40) and another cap (c30). Did you try other caps as well? There should not be any DC in that part of the circuit.
I will check with my Looper, but it will take some weeks... I don't use the spillover loop and don't want to rip my board apart right now.
Maybe I find time for breadboarding, who knows.
Please post the schematic you are using, and where you measure what. Or at least pictures of your breadboard.
I'll be back home next week so I'll chime in too. The tails board is ready to go in and I think that'll be a big part of my rig...getting in and out of delays.
Quote from: gordo on November 27, 2019, 02:09:52 PM
I'll be back home next week so I'll chime in too. The tails board is ready to go in and I think that'll be a big part of my rig...getting in and out of delays.
Cool. Gordo, maybe you can check, if there is DC on the output in spillover mode. If that is the case, please let me know. I would fix it with a new design for just that board.
Good morning from greece!
I don't want to ruin this beautiful thread with my own stuff, so let's continue this here:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=30407.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=30407.0)
Does anyone happen to know where in Europe (I live in the Netherlands) you can order the housing as indicated in the description?
It concerns the kk-80x40 from Rose Krieger. I know musikding normally has these lying around. But it is currently sold out.
I just got a response from Musikding that they expect to have the housings back in stock from mid next week.
Hello - quite some time since my last post. Just wanted to let everybody know, that there is a new version (4.0) available: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lKUyPn5B468xeWaGFZhAdqgFoZD4oujD?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lKUyPn5B468xeWaGFZhAdqgFoZD4oujD?usp=sharing).
Background: I use my Eoo3 to control an HX Stomp. With the latest Line 6 release (3.11), they changed something in the midi implementation which revealed a bug in my implementation (program changes occasionally failed). It's fixed now.