madbeanpedals::forum

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: peAk on February 27, 2020, 09:33:54 PM

Title: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on February 27, 2020, 09:33:54 PM
What are people thinking?

Might be nice to talk about especially since people from all over the world frequent this site.

Didn't see this being talked about anywhere else in the forum. My apologies if I missed it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on February 27, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
From a cold, purely logical viewpoint, we were well overdue for a horrible pandemic of some sort.

https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3978-flu-killed-more-world-war-i-troops-than-any-battle.html (https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3978-flu-killed-more-world-war-i-troops-than-any-battle.html)

Horrible little fact that most WW1 histories hide -- more people died from the Spanish Flu epidemic than in the trenches.

Humanity dodged a bullet in how AIDS is not air-borne, and how Ebola has been contained.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on February 27, 2020, 10:52:35 PM
I'm thinking that if you haven't had your flu shot you probably shouldn't be harping on about how dangerous Coronavirus is.  I'm not dismissing it - the death rate is 2% vs 0.4% - but I think the danger has probably been overstated.  I could be wrong though.

Personally don't know why we need a forum about it here.

Quote
Humanity dodged a bullet in how AIDS is not air-borne, and how Ebola has been contained
Yeah, especially with Ebola - that crap's nasty.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on February 27, 2020, 10:53:32 PM
Hooray, I'm an actual microbiologist, I get to chime in!

...I'm not really worried.

Ok, first of all, calling it "Coronavirus" is a bit vague. That is the name for the group of viruses this bug belongs to, rather like if you referred to the RAT, DS-1, and Shredmaster all as "Distortion" and nothing more. Officially, this is "2019-nCoV" or "COVID-2019". For reference, SARS back in 2003 and MERS back in 2012 were also Coronaviruses.

The name comes from the shape of the virus itself, has a sorta "decorated" look that the described as "crown-like", hence, corona.

Past the semantics, while it's worrying that it started in China (which is notorious for caring more about saving face than dealing with problems), It's currently sitting at an overall mortality rate of about ~3%, but most of those are from China where public health kinda sucks in general. Outside of China the mortality rate is currently hovering around 0.25% (for comparison, the normal yearly flu tends to sit around 0.1-0.2% mortality rates). The risk is of course greater to those with preexisting conditions, particularly high blood pressure and heart disease (it's rough on the lungs and associated vessels, so issues surrounding those can exasperate things)

So in general, with decent basic health care (and I mean things like "access to food and water" basics) it's no more concerning than a nasty flu year.

BUT, it is also new, and "exciting" so it will most definitely be blown majorly out of proportion by most media because it will sell.

It's also completely unrelated to the flu, so it could entirely possibly come to exist "beside" the flu as a new normal illness folks have to deal with.

So how to keep safe? Same rules apply as the flu. Wash your hands frequently. Don't touch your face/mouth/eyes without washing your hands while out and about. A face mask will not help you so don't bother (though they can help reduce spread of the disease if you end up sick). Eat a healthy diet and sleep well and all the usual stuff to keep your immune system running full steam.

But seriously, wash your hands. Number one way of respiratory viruses getting in is via your fingers, not your nose. In the same vein, alcohol based hand sanitizers can help in thise case (the virus has a fatty outer layer it needs to actually infect, and solvents destroy that very easily). If you want, carry some alcohol prep pads to wipe down things like shopping cart handles or restaurant tables (or again, just wash your hands before touching your face area).

Again, wash your hands. Soap and running water will reduce your chances of infection by orders of magnitude.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Torgoslayer on February 27, 2020, 11:16:06 PM
Perfectly stated. Microbiologist myself. cheers!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on February 27, 2020, 11:35:57 PM
Hooray, I'm an actual microbiologist, I get to chime in!

...I'm not really worried.

Ok, first of all, calling it "Coronavirus" is a bit vague. That is the name for the group of viruses this bug belongs to, rather like if you referred to the RAT, DS-1, and Shredmaster all as "Distortion" and nothing more. Officially, this is "2019-nCoV" or "COVID-2019". For reference, SARS back in 2003 and MERS back in 2012 were also Coronaviruses.

The name comes from the shape of the virus itself, has a sorta "decorated" look that the described as "crown-like", hence, corona.

Past the semantics, while it's worrying that it started in China (which is notorious for caring more about saving face than dealing with problems), It's currently sitting at an overall mortality rate of about ~3%, but most of those are from China where public health kinda sucks in general. Outside of China the mortality rate is currently hovering around 0.25% (for comparison, the normal yearly flu tends to sit around 0.1-0.2% mortality rates). The risk is of course greater to those with preexisting conditions, particularly high blood pressure and heart disease (it's rough on the lungs and associated vessels, so issues surrounding those can exasperate things)

So in general, with decent basic health care (and I mean things like "access to food and water" basics) it's no more concerning than a nasty flu year.

BUT, it is also new, and "exciting" so it will most definitely be blown majorly out of proportion by most media because it will sell.

It's also completely unrelated to the flu, so it could entirely possibly come to exist "beside" the flu as a new normal illness folks have to deal with.

So how to keep safe? Same rules apply as the flu. Wash your hands frequently. Don't touch your face/mouth/eyes without washing your hands while out and about. A face mask will not help you so don't bother (though they can help reduce spread of the disease if you end up sick). Eat a healthy diet and sleep well and all the usual stuff to keep your immune system running full steam.

But seriously, wash your hands. Number one way of respiratory viruses getting in is via your fingers, not your nose. In the same vein, alcohol based hand sanitizers can help in thise case (the virus has a fatty outer layer it needs to actually infect, and solvents destroy that very easily). If you want, carry some alcohol prep pads to wipe down things like shopping cart handles or restaurant tables (or again, just wash your hands before touching your face area).

Again, wash your hands. Soap and running water will reduce your chances of infection by orders of magnitude.

Public health systems / programmatic development person here. This is a great and thorough rundown. The misinformation with any public health situation is one of the most dangerous aspects. Thank you for writing this up. Also, I donít think itís just semantics to be clear about what the virus is called: itís hugely important that the public be educated of health concerns and risks, and a big part of that is being clear about what is even happening.

This has been important to public health and medical science because itís a novel pathogen. With any novel pathogen (especially those with high infection rates or severe symptoms/mortality), the medical community investigates to 1) understand whatís happening and 2) strategize response(s). This particular pathogen has been particularly alarming because the previous coronavirus outbreaks have had a substantial burden of disease (i.e., SARS and MERS). Compounding that is that China has been historically opaque with reporting and, of course, the political spin and general sensationalism of contemporary media. This will probably recycle itself through the year and return. Adequate health systems (i.e., those that can respond to annual flu or other communicable diseases) will be able to handle it just fine.

That said, my main concern is the nexus of political issues and health here. Many of the measures enacted to contain the spread I believe will prove to backfire. In many cases, health-seeking behaviors (e.g., going to the doctor or hospital) are not being promoted. Encouragingly, though, there has been great moments of communication and cooperation and were seeing really impressive treatment and vaccine development.

Advice remains the same as any time: ensure youíre practicing good health habits and focus on preventative care. Get your information from reputable sources and learn about this (and other) pathogens. I think this should also be a moment of reflection for people to evaluate the prioritization of health preparedness and response systemsóboth in their country and internationally. Outbreaks like this really demonstrate the connectedness of the global community and should show the importance of these systems and investment in medicine.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Drew Hallenbeck on February 27, 2020, 11:57:34 PM
As stated, it's probably not too much more serious than the typical illnesses that we already have to deal with. (at least in developed areas with decent health care)
But beside that, I live in Michigan.
We have Vernor's Ginger Ale.
We use that s#!t to cure all illnesses!
(Google it)  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: SirEgno on February 28, 2020, 02:08:36 AM
I'm in the hurricane eye.
Lodi, Italy. A week working in my house alone.
General panic and people have stockpiled as for a nuclear holocaust.
I have proof:
(https://i.postimg.cc/N2jjCnv5/Whats-App-Image-2020-02-24-at-19-39-15.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2jjCnv5)

I was looking for some beers and junky pizza slices for a good Saturday night and around me people with carts full of pasta, tuna cans, salt (wtf?)...

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on February 28, 2020, 05:10:07 AM
[Rant]
Unfortunately (perhaps), there are so many idiots in the world (my country proudly has the most) that no amount of public education will make a difference.  People who have never had the flu basically will believe they are immortal and will outright defy any advice that interferes with their "freedom" and "rights".  Tell them to stay inside for example, and they will go outside, even if they would have otherwise stayed inside all day.  I predict that, in a worst case scenario, ammunition will vastly outsell food here.
[/Rant]

People are buying less Corona beer now, apparently.   ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on February 28, 2020, 06:09:38 AM
Itís nice to be connected to people in the know so thank you guys. Please update us as things progress.

That said, having asthma and having three kids under ten, Iím still a little concerned.

From a cold, purely logical viewpoint, we were well overdue for a horrible pandemic of some sort.

https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3978-flu-killed-more-world-war-i-troops-than-any-battle.html (https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3978-flu-killed-more-world-war-i-troops-than-any-battle.html)

Horrible little fact that most WW1 histories hide -- more people died from the Spanish Flu epidemic than in the trenches.

Humanity dodged a bullet in how AIDS is not air-borne, and how Ebola has been contained.

I was actually reading speculation that the Spanish flu might be a good reference point for what we are facing but with modern medicine we shouldnít expect the death rate to be the as high.

Hopefully it only spreads so far before the spring and subsides for a while so everyone has time to prepare if it comes back in the fall.

Gotta say some actual leadership from the government might come in handy.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on February 28, 2020, 06:16:43 AM
I bought corona virus stocks companies developing and ďcureĒ but more importantly the testing kits. CODX so far is skyrocketing. If you want in, now is the time. Just saying, Iíve doubled my money and then some.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on February 28, 2020, 06:32:17 AM
it is definitely extending out shipping times for my direct from China purchases. It used to be 1-2 weeks wait time now it is 1-2 months. I mean ... this is modern-day bad but this doesn't compare to the flu pandemic from WWI or the black plague. of course, this is also just getting rolling too.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on February 28, 2020, 09:34:49 AM
I was on my way to the airport to go to Italy for a business trip when they called it off because they are shutting down the plant (to a minimum, not totally at least). Going to Italy is forbidden by the company now, also you are to stay at home if you have visited China, Italy, Japan or South Korea in the last 2 weeks.
It's ok to be cautious, but I think they exagerated this thing. less than 1000 infected off 60 Million is not a lot. In addition, borders are not closed so anyone can travel and goods are coming in and out anyways...
The only thing that is super annoying is that if you'd have holidays planned in one of the affected countries you can basically cancel (and possibly pay some fees), because otherwise you will be on 2 weeks quaranteen without pay...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on February 28, 2020, 10:45:21 AM
It's ok to be cautious, but I think they exagerated this thing. less than 1000 infected off 60 Million is not a lot. In addition, borders are not closed so anyone can travel and goods are coming in and out anyways...

Part of the issue is that ~80% of cases are mild and the percentage asymptomatic carriers is yet to be determined. Since mild symptoms may seem like a common respiratory cold and asymptomatic patients won't know anything is wrong, those individuals will not report their status nor seek medical intervention. This makes monitoring and surveillance particularly difficult. Since it can affect susceptible individuals quite hard (i.e., those with preexisting cardio/pulmonary conditions, the elderly, and otherwise immunocompromised), there is a risk with the spread. This is also the beginning stages of a novel pathogen and with much to be understood, people are concerned. If you don't have accurate measurement and understanding is nascent, you're stuck with assuming the worst when you are trying to develop management strategies.

Despite that, though, many of the measures being used are not in line with best practices nor generally accepted guidelines. It's been very messy and, even if this is contained, the methods used to respond to COVID-19 should not be looked at as an example of effective emergent disease management or public health intervention. I would characterize many of the measures taken as management decisions made by individuals either not heeding to public health and medical science advice, the fallout of lack of preparedness and response systems, unwillingness to cooperate with the international community, or any mix of the aforementioned. A virus doesn't care if you're a tough guy.

Wash your hands.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on February 28, 2020, 11:01:28 AM
As stated, it's probably not too much more serious than the typical illnesses that we already have to deal with. (at least in developed areas with decent health care)
But beside that, I live in Michigan.
We have Vernor's Ginger Ale.
We use that s#!t to cure all illnesses!
(Google it)  ;D

Just put some Tussin on it!  ;D




But seriously, I have the flu right now and it sucks. I did not get a flu shots this year but I most certainly will next year (if Im still around ;))
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on February 28, 2020, 01:16:45 PM
Somnif, nitpick -- exacerbate, not exasperate.

I bought corona virus stocks companies developing and ďcureĒ but more importantly the testing kits. CODX so far is skyrocketing. If you want in, now is the time. Just saying, Iíve doubled my money and then some.

The trick is when to sell. Once the panic settles down, those stocks are going to drop, hard, I suspect.

The knock-on effects are honestly being more of a pain to me, personally -- the place I work at sells a lot of meat to China, and the company has had to resort to packing boxes into refrigerated shipping containers, and hiring industrial scale generators to power them. (These suckers come in their own shipping container, to give you an idea of size.) We also sell to other countries (Jordan, the US, the UK, Germany, I think Peru...) so we've been able to shift SOME product. A different company in the same industry has had to shut down because they only sell to China.

I've said in the past to several people at work that I wasn't happy with how the meat industry was trying to sell everything to China, and not also trying to develop other markets (like India, maybe.)

Coronavirus has been an interesting lesson in how everything is interconnected in this global economy.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on February 28, 2020, 04:10:39 PM
Coronavirus has been an interesting lesson in how everything is interconnected in this global economy.

So true, so true.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on February 28, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
Somnif, nitpick -- exacerbate, not exasperate.

I blame lack of sleep and autocorrect!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on February 29, 2020, 03:30:10 PM
Bit of news, the WHO has given this bug an official name, it is now....


Drum roll please....



"SARS-CoV-2" and the disease it causes is COVID-19. As you might guess, they have determined that this is in fact better categorized as a new strain of the SARS virus, rather than an entirely new species.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on February 29, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
I'm going to start calling it Pangolin Flu.  It's more media friendly and marketable.  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 02, 2020, 01:05:43 AM
I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?

OSHPark are still too expensive for me.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 02, 2020, 01:42:23 AM
Not PCB, but I did try to order a new pair of glasses last night, and learned the place I buy from fabs in China.

Shipping estimate was 2-3 months, normally ~2 weeks.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 02, 2020, 04:40:26 AM
Bit of news, the WHO has given this bug an official name

Wow, Roger Daltrey is really branching out...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 02, 2020, 04:43:03 AM
Bit of news, the WHO has given this bug an official name

Wow, Roger Daltrey is really branching out...

Nah, Pete is way to much of a control freak to let Daltrey name it. I'm sure he did it himself.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Drew Hallenbeck on March 02, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
I'm going to start calling it Pangolin Flu.  It's more media friendly and marketable.  ;D

Probably not politically correct but, we've been calling it the "Kung-Flu" at my place.  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Muadzin on March 03, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
I'm going to start calling it Pangolin Flu.  It's more media friendly and marketable.  ;D

Probably not politically correct but, we've been calling it the "Kung-Flu" at my place.  ::)

F*** politically correctness and f*** it hard in all its orifices! We NEED to laugh, especially in times like this.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 03, 2020, 06:42:31 AM
I'll admit, since I saw the news about it's taxonomy, every time I think of it, my brain spits out the virus as "SARS 2: Electric Boogaflu" (hands up if you get the ridiculous reference)


And I hate calling random diseases "flu", its taxonomically and epidemiologically wrong! Curse my stupid brain!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 03, 2020, 07:06:49 AM
And I hate calling random diseases "flu", its taxonomically and epidemiologically wrong! Curse my stupid brain!
Can I call it Pangolin Pestilence then? 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 03, 2020, 07:36:46 AM
"SARS 2: Electric Boogaflu" (hands up if you get the ridiculous reference)
...and I thought I was the only one who still tacks that on after every 2 that comes out of my mouth.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: G.G. on March 03, 2020, 01:12:21 PM
"For example, itís unlikely any coronavirus would survive as a stowaway on or inside packages mailed from China to the United States. ďIn general, because of the poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, thatís in the range of hours, thereís likely a very, very, very low if any risk of spread from products or packaging that is shipped over a period of days or weeks in ambient temperatures,Ē Messonnier (of the CDC) says."
https://elemental.medium.com/your-most-pressing-questions-about-the-coronavirus-answered-c99bff5f02e9
edit: quoted the wrong reply :-\
Quote
I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 03, 2020, 02:49:15 PM
"For example, itís unlikely any coronavirus would survive as a stowaway on or inside packages mailed from China to the United States. ďIn general, because of the poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, thatís in the range of hours, thereís likely a very, very, very low if any risk of spread from products or packaging that is shipped over a period of days or weeks in ambient temperatures,Ē Messonnier (of the CDC) says."
https://elemental.medium.com/your-most-pressing-questions-about-the-coronavirus-answered-c99bff5f02e9
edit: quoted the wrong reply :-\
Quote
I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?

 From Peter at VFE
Quote
Out of an abundance of caution regarding the coronavirus outbreak (officially known as COVID-19) in China, I will be letting the SPS system "air out" for 1 week before testing & shipment.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/studio-power-switching-system-for-guitar-pedals#/updates/all
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lrgaraujo on March 03, 2020, 03:58:06 PM
Just wanted to say that even in topics totally unrelated to music and pedals, this forum is one of the greatest sources of content I know in the webs. If not for the information (which was great in this topic, btw), at least people are always polite and willing to learn.

Sorry if this sounds cheesy  ;D, but with me hanging around for years (mostly lurking) some praise was long overdue
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on March 03, 2020, 04:16:19 PM
Just wanted to say that even in topics totally unrelated to music and pedals, this forum is one of the greatest sources of content I know in the webs. If not for the information (which was great in this topic, btw), at least people are always polite and willing to learn.

Sorry if this sounds cheesy  ;D, but with me hanging around for years (mostly lurking) some praise was long overdue

This is honestly my favorite part of the hobby. The people are high quality.

I drag race (or used to). There are good people that race, but the toxic culture really sucks the life out of it in the US.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 03, 2020, 04:28:07 PM
"For example, itís unlikely any coronavirus would survive as a stowaway on or inside packages mailed from China to the United States. ďIn general, because of the poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, thatís in the range of hours, thereís likely a very, very, very low if any risk of spread from products or packaging that is shipped over a period of days or weeks in ambient temperatures,Ē Messonnier (of the CDC) says."
https://elemental.medium.com/your-most-pressing-questions-about-the-coronavirus-answered-c99bff5f02e9
edit: quoted the wrong reply :-\
Quote
I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?

 From Peter at VFE
Quote
Out of an abundance of caution regarding the coronavirus outbreak (officially known as COVID-19) in China, I will be letting the SPS system "air out" for 1 week before testing & shipment.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/studio-power-switching-system-for-guitar-pedals#/updates/all
So short answer, don't worry at all, just make sure your postal worker keeps his finger out of his nose ;)
Sure he's just doing that to calm worried people rather than thinking it's necessary.

I've found the most worrying thing about all this is that people still need to be told to wash their hands and believe that some casual (or not so casual) racism will keep illness away from them.
Edit: Just to clarify, I don't mean concern over ordering from China :)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 03, 2020, 06:23:19 PM
according to this year's grade school science experiment, the 30 second hospital-style hand wash with soap and water was more effective than hand sanitizer across the three trials we were able to run on the single order of petri dishes ...
I'm not really concerned about the sorts of things I've been ordering here lately direct from China (pentesting devices) being a viable infectious disease vector. I'm more worried about the coworker from Vietnam that managed to get stateside right before the travel restrictions came and even then I'm like "well, its about time I got some usage out of my health insurance"
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 03, 2020, 06:54:13 PM
In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 03, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
My wife went into "prepper mode" right when the news hit. At first I was bemused but actually I'm glad we have several extra days worth of food stored. Even if this turns out to be mild here in the US it doesn't hurt to have some preparation.

Our retirement has taken a pretty severe beating with the stock market (like a shocking amount) but that's nothing in comparison to the people suffering here and overseas right now.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 03, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can.
I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

My wife went into "prepper mode" right when the news hit. At first I was bemused but actually I'm glad we have several extra days worth of food stored. Even if this turns out to be mild here in the US it doesn't hurt to have some preparation.
Even if I had a bad cold (and in your case if it spread to your wife too) I'd want to be 'prepped' for a week just so I didn't have to drag my self to the shops!

But people buy the damn weirdest things when they actually panic buy, for some reason breakfast ingredients are the most important? (At least in the UK). The world is burning, but I'll be damned if I can't have an egg on toast with milky tea!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on March 03, 2020, 07:54:17 PM
Here in Australia there are reports of toilet paper being sold out.  I'm not sure what those people are thinking...are they going to eat the toilet paper?  Surely stockpiling canned food would be more useful?

The media reporting seems to be pretty sensationalist - each new case is a major headline.  If it was the usual flu, it wouldn't be headlines like this. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 03, 2020, 08:14:27 PM
Here in Australia there are reports of toilet paper being sold out.  I'm not sure what those people are thinking...are they going to eat the toilet paper?  Surely stockpiling canned food would be more useful?

The media reporting seems to be pretty sensationalist - each new case is a major headline.  If it was the usual flu, it wouldn't be headlines like this.
It's a double edged sword, it sells papers and is sensationalist "12 new infected!" might as well be "The dead walk the earth!" but people do also need all the information they can get to prevent a further spread and if it's under-reported, a lot of people would write off things like 'basic hygiene'. It's not that bad (and for most of the demographic here, probably not much more dangerous than the usual flu from the current info) but it's not something you'd want to become seasonal if you could avoid it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 03, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

I do believe that this will recycle and come back next year. Keep these thoughts fresh and consider the importance of public health systems and disaster response and preparation. Itís rather concerning how this has been able to send shocks through domestic and international systems the world over.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 03, 2020, 10:09:08 PM
I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

Personally I avoid antibacterial soap as a matter of course. In this case, it does absolutely nothing more (or less) than any other soap against viruses. It's all a matter of the soap and mechanical action of scrubbing your hands that matters. Warm water is marginally better than cold (bit more solvent efficacy) but as long as you use soap you're good.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

Yeah, against bacteria, alcohol based hand sanitizer evaporates far too quickly to really do anything (too short a contact time). However, against SOME viruses, it works almost instantly. Enveloped viruses, like influenza and SARS-CoV, rely on a lipid envelope (outer coating layer) to actually infect a cell. The alcohol in sanitizers actually disrupts this lipid layer on contact, rendering the virus non-infective, and thus harmless.

It's not perfect protection, as some respiratory particles result in the virions being protected (basically a little shell of snot around the virus) and you can't guarantee that the gel actually gets to every part of your hands to inactivate. But again, in this particular case, it's certainly better than nothing. I'll see if I can dig up the journal articles that show the efficacy rates when I get to a real computer later.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 04, 2020, 07:40:16 AM
Ok, first of all, calling it "Coronavirus" is a bit vague. That is the name for the group of viruses this bug belongs to, rather like if you referred to the RAT, DS-1, and Shredmaster all as "Distortion" and nothing more. Officially, this is "2019-nCoV" or "COVID-2019". For reference, SARS back in 2003 and MERS back in 2012 were also Coronaviruses.

The name comes from the shape of the virus itself, has a sorta "decorated" look that the described as "crown-like", hence, corona.
Is this you?  ;D
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/coronavirus_name.png)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 04, 2020, 09:05:11 AM
I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

Personally I avoid antibacterial soap as a matter of course. In this case, it does absolutely nothing more (or less) than any other soap against viruses. It's all a matter of the soap and mechanical action of scrubbing your hands that matters. Warm water is marginally better than cold (bit more solvent efficacy) but as long as you use soap you're good.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

Yeah, against bacteria, alcohol based hand sanitizer evaporates far too quickly to really do anything (too short a contact time). However, against SOME viruses, it works almost instantly. Enveloped viruses, like influenza and SARS-CoV, rely on a lipid envelope (outer coating layer) to actually infect a cell. The alcohol in sanitizers actually disrupts this lipid layer on contact, rendering the virus non-infective, and thus harmless.

It's not perfect protection, as some respiratory particles result in the virions being protected (basically a little shell of snot around the virus) and you can't guarantee that the gel actually gets to every part of your hands to inactivate. But again, in this particular case, it's certainly better than nothing. I'll see if I can dig up the journal articles that show the efficacy rates when I get to a real computer later.

Water, sanitation, and hygiene (WASH) are major focuses of communicable disease interventionsóparticularly in community and hospital settings. To your point about antimicrobial soaps vs the non-antimicrobial soaps, the mechanical motion is indeed key (assuming that there's access to non-contaminated water). That introduces an important point with hand sanitizer: the motion most people use pushes the alcohol solution from the palm of their hand to the tips. For non-enveloped viruses, this can push them to the fingertips where they are more likely to come into contact with mucus membranes. For gram positive, spore-forming bacteria (especially C. diff.) hand sanitizers have been found to have no improvement over no intervention (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19715426), and that motion can again concentrate cultures on the fingertips. Overall, hand sanitizers are not robust solutions to hand washing and efficacy varies widely by pathogen.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 05, 2020, 12:41:31 AM
Somnif, I heard that some hospitals got rid of their alcohol hand sanitizer stations, as staff were not washing their hands and just using that -- was this true?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 05, 2020, 12:53:09 AM
Somnif, I heard that some hospitals got rid of their alcohol hand sanitizer stations, as staff were not washing their hands and just using that -- was this true?

I know when my dad was in the hospital last autumn, there were hand sanitizer stations all over the place. I can't find any reports of hospitals getting rid of them, though that doesn't preclude local issues (I'll admit an American bias in my search results).

On a different note, all the bathrooms actually had instructions on proper hand washing technique too, both the bathrooms in the actual patient rooms and those in public areas.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 05, 2020, 05:05:51 AM
Oh, and since we're a DIY minded crowd, here are the WHO's formulas for alcohol hand sanitizer (these are 1L quantities)

Taken from "WHO Guidelines on Hand Hygiene in Health Care: First Global Patient Safety Challenge Clean Care Is Safer Care.": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK144054/

If using Ethanol:
a) 833.3mL 96% (v/v) Ethanol
b) 41.7mL 3% Hydrogen Peroxide
c) 14.5mL 98% glycerol
d) Bring to 1L with distilled water
-Resulting final concentrations (v/v): 80% ethanol, 1.45% glycerol, 0.125% hydrogen peroxide

If using isopropanol:
a) 757.6mL 99% (v/v) Isopropyl alcohol
b) 41.7mL 3% Hydrogen Peroxide
c) 14.5mL 98% glycerol
d) bring to 1L with distilled water
-Final concentrations (v/v): 75% isopropanol, 1.45% glycerol, 0.125% hydrogen peroxide

You should leave the mixture in it's final container 72 hours before use to ensure any spores present in the containers are killed.

Note the peroxide isn't there to help clean up your hands, it's in there to keep the bulk mixture clean as a spore inhibitor. Also as a note this stuff may leave a somewhat sticky residue if you use too much, but is also less likely to leave your hands dried out to the point of skin cracking.

(Also also, if you can't lay hands on 96% ethanol, you could use Everclear! Locally my stuff is 95% alcohol, so I'd need to use 842.1mL of the stuff to get a final concentration of 80% in the 1L mix.  ;D )

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 05, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
I can some how easily obtain the ethanol but I have no idea where I can buy isopropanol.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 05, 2020, 08:05:02 AM
I can some how easily obtain the ethanol but I have no idea where I can buy isopropanol.

90% isopropyl is what I buy at my grocery store for cleaning resin off PCBs, it's in the first aid section next to the 70% stuff.  With that stuff I'd use 833.33mL of it to get to a 75% final cocnentration.

This is all hypothetical of course, I have both soap and hand sanitizer aplenty, so I'm not in need of homebrewing.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Axldeziak on March 05, 2020, 09:05:17 AM
If you get really hard up for alcohol don't overlook the gas pump. I ride mopeds (the kind with pedals, not a scooter...) and I have to remove the alcohol from the pump gas or it deteriorates the seals and hoses on the bikes. It also messes up the oil mixture on the two stroke motors. It's a PITA.
To remove the alcohol you add water to the gas, shake it, and let it settle out into layers. (Try two to one water to alcohol. IE, 10% alcohol in gas, add 20% volume of water.) The alcohol will bond with the water and settle on the bottom of the container. Separate the fuel and alcohol by decanting. (I use a three liter pop bottle to make the layers easy to see.)
Then you pour salt into the water/alcohol solution to remove the water. About a four to one ratio, water to salt. (Or you could distill it.) The saltwater solution will sink and the alcohol will be the top later after it settles. Decant it again.
Then if you want to up the concentration of alcohol further let the liquid freeze and spoon the water ice out.
The alcohol I have removed this way is what I use to make solder flux using pine resin I collect from trees nearby and cook down. (Hey, I like science. It's free, and it gives me something constructive to do.)
Look up videos on it, it's all very easy to do.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 05, 2020, 11:25:14 AM
I get 99.9% isopropyl at my local electronics mart. MG Chemicals  brand is the one they have, i use it to mix up vinyl cleaner.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Leevibe on March 05, 2020, 10:30:22 PM
If you get really hard up for alcohol don't overlook the gas pump. I ride mopeds (the kind with pedals, not a scooter...) and I have to remove the alcohol from the pump gas or it deteriorates the seals and hoses on the bikes. It also messes up the oil mixture on the two stroke motors. It's a PITA.
To remove the alcohol you add water to the gas, shake it, and let it settle out into layers. (Try two to one water to alcohol. IE, 10% alcohol in gas, add 20% volume of water.) The alcohol will bond with the water and settle on the bottom of the container. Separate the fuel and alcohol by decanting. (I use a three liter pop bottle to make the layers easy to see.)
Then you pour salt into the water/alcohol solution to remove the water. About a four to one ratio, water to salt. (Or you could distill it.) The saltwater solution will sink and the alcohol will be the top later after it settles. Decant it again.
Then if you want to up the concentration of alcohol further let the liquid freeze and spoon the water ice out.
The alcohol I have removed this way is what I use to make solder flux using pine resin I collect from trees nearby and cook down. (Hey, I like science. It's free, and it gives me something constructive to do.)
Look up videos on it, it's all very easy to do.

I like this guy^^^
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 05, 2020, 11:04:13 PM
On a residential scale, the local chemist would be my first bet for getting isopropyl. Too many idiots buying it in bulk to make marijuana oil, otherwise. (Commercial scale, you probably already have an account with an industrial chemical supplier.)

Fun fact, when I wanted to buy some India Ink for labelling my pedals, the office supply shop kept it under the counter, as idiots kept shoplifting it to do ghetto tattoos.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 05, 2020, 11:57:09 PM
On a residential scale, the local chemist would be my first bet for getting isopropyl. Too many idiots buying it in bulk to make marijuana oil, otherwise. (Commercial scale, you probably already have an account with an industrial chemical supplier.)

Annoyingly, today I learned most of my local pharmacists and grocery stores are actually out of stock of "rubbing alcohol" (both isopropyl and ethyl). It's getting a bit silly really.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 06, 2020, 04:26:50 AM
Time to set up a moonshine still, I guess.  ;)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 06, 2020, 07:22:11 AM
Has anybody you know actually had it yet? If so, how was it?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 06, 2020, 07:28:30 AM
Has anybody you know actually had it yet? If so, how was it?

Well, I've had a stuffy nose and sore throat all morning, I'll let you know.

(Ok in all seriousness, no it's not COVID-19. My sinuses are always a mess in the morning).

I'm tempted to put together a set of test primers if I have time though. Because... what the hell, I'm bored. Pretty useless without a thermocycler, polymerase, and gel frame, but... unemployment does strange things to the mind.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 06, 2020, 09:31:56 AM
Two cases in TN apparently.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Axldeziak on March 06, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Two cases in TN apparently.
Can we really trust the numbers? Yesterday John Hopkins was reporting a case outside of Nashville. Now the number is still one but is now shown as being just outside Franklin.
And go look on the official CDC website. They don't even show a case in TN at all. And it says the numbers are posted at 12 noon every day but the number is from 4pm the day before. It should at least show the one.
Add to this the president just landed in Nashville a few minutes ago. If you have a confirmed case in or around a city, why would you allow the president of all people to land in that city? That's just stupid.
I don't trust the media at all and to be honest, the reporting on this entire thing has been sketchy as hell. A quick glance at the headlines shows they seem to be more worried about the world markets instead of the people.
The entire thing just stinks of either incompetence or outright malice. Or a combination of both.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 06, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
Two cases in TN apparently.
Can we really trust the numbers? Yesterday John Hopkins was reporting a case outside of Nashville. Now the number is still one but is now shown as being just outside Franklin.
And go look on the official CDC website. They don't even show a case in TN at all. And it says the numbers are posted at 12 noon every day but the number is from 4pm the day before. It should at least show the one.
Add to this the president just landed in Nashville a few minutes ago. If you have a confirmed case in or around a city, why would you allow the president of all people to land in that city? That's just stupid.
I don't trust the media at all and to be honest, the reporting on this entire thing has been sketchy as hell. A quick glance at the headlines shows they seem to be more worried about the world markets instead of the people.
The entire thing just stinks of either incompetence or outright malice. Or a combination of both.

The process to confirm a case had required sending samples to the CDC in Atlanta. The CDC publishes only those numbers. Now, state and local public health and medical systems are able to report their own numbers (this testing began the week of 2 March 2020). However, the availability of effective and accurate tests as well as the capacity to test has not scaled according to need (according to WHO testing guidelines).

From the CDC:
"CDC is no longer reporting the number of persons under investigation (PUIs) that have been tested, as well as PUIs that have tested negative. Now that states are testing and reporting their own results, CDC’s numbers are not representative all of testing being done nationwide."

The CDC's numbers are thus confirmed from their laboratories. Note that there has not been an adoption of international standardization of testing and discharge procedures. There are WHO guidelines and recommendations, but that does not mean that national, state, and local public health / medical systems are adhering to them.

It's been established with the genetic analysis of the virus in the Washington state outbreak that the mutations indicate there is possibly an order of magnitude higher case prevalence than is indicated by the published numbers. The incidence rate is also undetermined. Since testing in the US has prioritized high-risk patients for testing, the case numbers are artificially low and, possibly, the mortality rate is artificially high. The rate of asymptomatic infection and unconfirmed case existence is unknown.

The Johns Hopkins dashboard is a GIS tool that aggregates reported numbers. Check the citations on the online tool to determine where the numbers are coming from. The media is reporting from those numbers (and, unfortunately, based on statements from the HHS head, the USG is making policy decisions based on the dashboard as well).

The concern for the market is a real macro affect of the outbreak (edit: and it's easily measured and quantified). Much media attention has encouraged people to go out and purchase N95 respirators that they will not be able to use effectively and have no purpose for a member of the general public. Those are for frontline health workers and those exposed to sustained high viral loads. Advice for prevention is washing your hands, safe respiratory practices (e.g., covering sneezes), and ensuring that you are aware of your health state. If there are indications of illness, seek appropriate medical care. The media has not been effective at relaying the messages from the WHO, CDC, and NIH about preventative measures and latest understanding about COVID-19. I suggest that people read the health authorities' media briefings and public announcements for that type of information.

The WHO gives a daily press briefing from Geneva. I would encourage you to hear what is said in those briefings and compare that to what is reported. You might be surprised at what changes in the game of telephone that is reporting on medical issues.

The US was massively unprepared for this and the USG is playing catchup. The lack of information stems from the fact that there isn't capacity to test every suspected case and response systems did not scale nearly fast enough. There's also a big gulf in the ability to test priority cases as seen in Washington state. There's been a lack of coordination from the federal response and the WA state health authorities.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 06, 2020, 11:25:19 AM
And as far as the focus on the markets, anytime the market drops that much that fast its going to be a big story. The media is going to focus on it regardless of the cause.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 06, 2020, 01:18:29 PM
The kits are in short supply and high demand thank to the FDAs latency on finally releasing big Pharma to distribute tests so we could get this under control or at least get out in front of it. I've been buying Pharma stocks and the research alone is just astounding.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on March 06, 2020, 02:48:17 PM
The kits are in short supply and high demand thank to the FDAs latency on finally releasing big Pharma to distribute tests so we could get this under control or at least get out in front of it. I've been buying Pharma stocks and the research alone is just astounding.

I respectfully disagree that the FDA is entirely to blame for the test kit shortage. I would rather have Pharma sell reliable test kits than sell kits as quickly as possible. The FDA serves an incredibly important regulatory role in separating private Pharma from its conflict of interest- profit. This extends beyond the current CovID-19. The FDA takes a lot of unnecessary heat. When the FDA is successful, nobody notices (by design). When the FDA is needed, it's never fast enough. When they fail, Pharma gets a pass and the FDA takes the blame.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mozz on March 06, 2020, 04:28:44 PM
1 case so far in the county i live in in Pennsylvania. It's spreading no doubt here. This updates a few times a day, Russia, 4 cases, don't think so. China numbers are not going up so that means they stopped reporting.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 06, 2020, 05:37:26 PM
There's a case here in NZ, that came from someone who went for holiday. In IRAN, of all places.

"Honey, where do you want to go for a holiday overseas? Romantic Venice, historical London, maybe exciting New York, the city that never sleeps?"

"No way, I want to go to a country that got into a giant nuclear dick-waving contest with another country that has the biggest military in the world!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 06, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
5 cases now here in Houston.

Most from people who traveled to Egypt
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on March 06, 2020, 07:43:13 PM
I don't care what anybody says about the N65 masks, I panic-bought about 20.  ;D 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 06, 2020, 07:56:29 PM
I don't care what anybody says about the N65 masks, I panic-bought about 20.  ;D
It will stop you from touching for face if nothing else.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/ANWIS2HYfROI8/giphy.gif)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 06, 2020, 09:29:59 PM
I don't care what anybody says about the N65 masks, I panic-bought about 20.  ;D

And today when I wanted to buy a mask so I could do some sanding work, no place had any in stock.  :-\
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on March 06, 2020, 09:44:15 PM
I don't care what anybody says about the N65 masks, I panic-bought about 20.  ;D

And today when I wanted to buy a mask so I could do some sanding work, no place had any in stock.  :-\

Early bird gets the worm.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on March 06, 2020, 10:06:48 PM
I already had boxes of face masks due to bushfire smoke.  Success!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on March 07, 2020, 02:03:27 AM
I wonder if anybody has died texting/talking on their phone about the Corona virus while driving.
Irony.
Driving is still way more dangerous than any virus. Funny that people don't put as much effort into it as preparing for things that never happen. "My car has bad brakes and bald tires and I go down the road with my phone glued to my ear with a vape cloud obstructing my vision...but hey, I've got dust masks!"
Priorities.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 07, 2020, 06:12:20 AM
I'm waiting for the first death from people fighting over supplies they don't really need.  This will happen in the US at some point.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on March 07, 2020, 07:29:46 AM
There are 5 cases in Chicago.  All have been released to my knowledge.  The latest being a 20-something and has been quarantined to home.  My wife was involved in screening the hospital staff that was involved in the first cases and the CDC was very involved locally.

I was in Home Depot getting a new doorknob last weekend and there was a line of people waiting for the store clerk to unload 8 cases of hand sanitizer from the top shelf.

I felt a bit guilty being in the same aisle to buy stupid stuff like floor cleaner :-)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 07, 2020, 07:57:23 AM
I'm about to head to Walmart to buy a bunch of stuff entirely unrelated to disaster prep (barbecue sauce, t-shirts, etc.). 

Will report back if I see anything amusing or scary.  ;)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 07, 2020, 08:14:15 AM
I'm about to head to Walmart to buy a bunch of stuff entirely unrelated to disaster prep (barbecue sauce, t-shirts, etc.). 

Will report back if I see anything amusing or scary.  ;)

lol I was just at Wal-Mart yesterday (barbecue sauce, chicken, and bananas) and they were completely out of Lysol, wipes and spray. Clorox too. Also, those massive bags of rice and dry beans. Completely empty shelves.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 07, 2020, 09:28:36 AM
Is your barbecue sauce Stubb's Original, by chance?  That would be a hilarious coincidence.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on March 07, 2020, 09:30:13 AM
The only thing I've seen wiped out in stores is face masks and hand sanitizer. Still got isopropyl and wipes and gloves. And no food seems to be selling out at all.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 07, 2020, 09:35:00 AM
Is your barbecue sauce Stubb's Original, by chance?  That would be a hilarious coincidence.

Heh No. I've been meaning to try that though.

Sweet Baby Ray's and KC Masterpiece
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 07, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
The only thing I've seen wiped out in stores is face masks and hand sanitizer. Still got isopropyl and wipes and gloves. And no food seems to be selling out at all.
Walmart was uninteresting.  Not an overly high volume of people, and no empty shelves.  My wife says the Tylenol et al. area was a little empty, but I doubt that has anything to do with panic.  I didn't look at the hand sanitizer area though.

They were almost completely out of white t-shirts though, and I am in low supply.  :o
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 07, 2020, 11:17:23 AM
I'm waiting for the first death from people fighting over supplies they don't really need.  This will happen in the US at some point.

i was going to say it would happen in a Walmart but you're already on your way there...
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on March 07, 2020, 02:59:21 PM
I'm waiting for the first death from people fighting over supplies they don't really need.  This will happen in the US at some point.

i was going to say it would happen in a Walmart but you're already on your way there...
dave

Apparently someone did pull a knife in the toilet paper aisle in Sydney last week, and another report of police having to separate a pair of women fighting over the last toilet paper yesterday.  People are stupid. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 07, 2020, 06:21:46 PM
In Italy we are experimenting a total lockdown. The situation is very heavy, but we don't have this violence one against each other. Actually people is not taking this Virus very seriously, schools are closed but kids are all around.
Everybody is out.
All i know about this Virus is that is a bioweapon planted by the US military in China at the war games of Wuhan.
Davos (the oligarchy) was preparing this since last year. The Virus first appeared in Italy in place very close to a US military base.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on March 07, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
In Italy we are experimenting a total lockdown. The situation is very heavy, but we don't have this violence one against each other. Actually people is not taking this Virus very seriously, schools are closed but kids are all around.
Everybody is out.
All i know about this Virus is that is a bioweapon planted by the US military in China at the war games of Wuhan.
Davos (the oligarchy) was preparing this since last year. The Virus first appeared in Italy in place very close to a US military base.

There is an Italian equivalent to Alex Jones???
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 07, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Why? is he saying these things?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 07, 2020, 08:01:07 PM
the illness isnt that bad, the havoc on the economy is what I am worried about.

The media needs to start reporting that the illness is mild for most people. Stop scaring the friggin world from leaving their house.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 07, 2020, 08:36:30 PM
the illness isnt that bad, the havoc on the economy is what I am worried about.

The media needs to start reporting that the illness is mild for most people. Stop scaring the friggin world from leaving their house.
So true.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 07, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0M4eoow.jpg)

My local grocery store is almost out of toilet paper.  :-\

My state has had 3 cases, including our first "locally acquired" case. So obviously, pooping is now a luxury for the black market.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 08, 2020, 01:40:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0M4eoow.jpg)

My local grocery store is almost out of toilet paper.  :-\

My state has had 3 cases, including our first "locally acquired" case. So obviously, pooping is now a luxury for the black market.


Guess thereís gonna be a lot of people doing the dirty walk.

As far as how itís being reported, I do hear the media (cnn, npr, nbc, nyt, wapo, and many others) mention that it is mild for many people who fall ill. I think it would be responsible to say most because some groups seem more at risk than others, but without a more complete data set itís hard to responsibly assess that for certain.

It isnít the media that is restricting travel, or quarantining people in hotels or closing schools.  Iím not begrudging those decisions, or anybodyís decision to stay home from work or buy some extra cottonelle. But I think thatís all a reaction to what is being done, letís keep in mind though the media didnít do those things, they just reported that those things were done, which last time I checked was their job.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 08, 2020, 01:49:31 AM
Quote
As far as how itís being reported, I do hear the media (cnn, npr, nbc, nyt, wapo, and many others) mention that it is mild for many people who fall ill. I think it would be responsible to say most because some groups seem more at risk than others, but without a more complete data set itís hard to responsibly assess that for certain.

Yep, for most people, all you get is a mild fever and a bit of a cough. Funny enough, my store still had plenty of robitussin on the shelves.

The exceptions to this are people with per-existing cardiopulmonary problems (asthma, bronchitis, etc, you cough a lot and stress those vessels) and people over 60 years old. The age distribution has actually been fascinating in this regard as usually it's "the very young and the very old" but it seems kids are rather resilient in regards to this bug (maybe their lungs are just more flexible, dunno).

Current numbers show for people under 50 it's actually a bit less deadly than the Flu. For people over 80, it's incredibly dangerous (with a death rate of about 1 in 7 or 8, though that is a tad skewed by circumstances).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on March 08, 2020, 02:18:18 AM
There have been no deaths under 15 to my knowledge, but if you're an 80 year old smoker with a pre existing heart condition you're going to struggle.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on March 08, 2020, 02:22:36 AM
Language warning:

https://www.facebook.com/ozzymanreviews/videos/502149800471963/
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on March 08, 2020, 06:48:05 AM
It isnít the media that is restricting travel, or quarantining people in hotels or closing schools.

Great point.

And also, I would encourage everyone to view this whole fiasco as a free practice run to tighten up our response plans and protocols for when something really dangerous does start to spread quickly. USA is definitely not ready, but this scare will hopefully motivate us to get smarter on the response.

And just as a data point: I'm in NJ (3 confirmed cases, 1 presumed), and nobody has made a run on the grocery stores yet. Hand sanitizer is getting harder to find, and masks have been gone for more than a month, but otherwise all shelves are fully stocked.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 08, 2020, 07:13:30 AM
I'm much much more worried about protecting myself from irrational people than I am about viruses and supply scarcity.  The imperfect information flow is apparently causing many people to distrust government and substitute imperfect zombie apocalypse planning. I missed the Walking Dead episode about the ultrarisky raid on the zombie filled Costco to grab TP though.  That would have been hilarious!

We need our comedy writers to cook up some parody here!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on March 08, 2020, 09:00:34 AM
I had to go to Costco to get TP and other things yesterday, and I kinda wanted to wear a sogn saying "I'm not some doomsday prepper, we just need TP"

I will say, I did notice the TP level to be a little lower than normal.  Also, I checked a few stores and nobody has any dried beans around here, looks like I might be SOL on making homemade refried  beans this next week...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on March 08, 2020, 02:20:38 PM
I had to go to Costco to get TP and other things yesterday, and I kinda wanted to wear a sogn saying "I'm not some doomsday prepper, we just need TP"

I will say, I did notice the TP level to be a little lower than normal.  Also, I checked a few stores and nobody has any dried beans around here, looks like I might be SOL on making homemade refried  beans this next week...

(https://i.imgur.com/u91gKpm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 08, 2020, 08:33:09 PM
the lysol section was empty ... the hand sanitizer too ... plenty of hand soap though ... in fairness, this is the same set of NY retirees that run the store out of basic supplies every time a storm is going to strike anywhere in the state
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 08, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
I can add my local Target to the list now, too:

(https://i.imgur.com/RLULvke.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 08, 2020, 09:57:46 PM
I can't help but suspect that, if you were to take a poll and rely on that, you'd think that in half a year, we'll all be living Mad Max: The Road Warrior, and murdering each other for enough petrol toilet paper to last half an hour.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 09, 2020, 01:44:55 AM
I also find it amusing that should the apocalypse come, people prioritise having a clean arse over just about everything else.

This is why we won't survive...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on March 09, 2020, 03:24:10 AM
AlanP, have you read your signature lately?

"Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."
- Cohen the Barbarian, on what is greatest in life
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 09, 2020, 09:33:52 AM
Heh... thing is, that line was originally taking the piss out of Conan the Barbarian's famous reply.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 09, 2020, 03:18:42 PM
Which in itself is a riff on Ghengis Khan.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on March 09, 2020, 04:55:34 PM
I'm reading Conn Iggulden's series on Ghengis Khan now, actually.  What he and his brothers achieved was phenomenal - especially when you consider that they were cast out as teenagers/children with their mother by the tribe when his father died.... in the middle of winter, with no shelter or equipment (from how Conn tells it anyway, but history backs that up).

Back to CV-19.  Italy has been shut down...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 09, 2020, 06:16:03 PM
There is finally a confirmed case within 10 miles of me.  I need to stock up on beer very soon (not Corona beer).  Priorities.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: JackSkellington on March 10, 2020, 02:50:05 AM
All Italy is in lockdown. We can't go out except for necessity.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on March 10, 2020, 07:44:39 AM
There is finally a confirmed case within 10 miles of me.  I need to stock up on beer very soon (not Corona beer).  Priorities.

I bought a 1.5L vodka last week and put it in my "bunker box" of supplies.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 10, 2020, 10:11:52 AM
All Italy is in lockdown. We can't go out except for necessity.

Do you mean out of the country, or out of your house?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: SirEgno on March 10, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
As always it's the Italian way. We have a Ministerial Decree that obliges us to minimize travel outside the home, but there are a lot of exceptions. Work necessities, health, and there are no controls. In case of a control I need an self-declaration of where I'm going and why.
Yesterday I went to the office to pick-up a shipping (electronic parts  8) ), from Lodi to Milan, about 35km and no-one asked me anything.

JackSkellington, where are you from?

There is finally a confirmed case within 10 miles of me.  I need to stock up on beer very soon (not Corona beer).  Priorities.

I bought a 1.5L vodka last week and put it in my "bunker box" of supplies.
I have about 10 beer crates in my cellar. I'm ok for another couple of week. ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: JackSkellington on March 10, 2020, 12:09:57 PM
I'm from Italy. ;)
This is crazyness. You hear professional in the tv says that alerted zone in China are solving somehow the contagion problem with the isolation, so now we know that's a solution. When somebody ask if we have to do the same thing the answer is... no. We have to do it, but just a bit, less extreme. Nonsense. Maybe we can't do it for many reason, but there's no logic in the speech we hear. It's like if they tell us to wash just the left hand.

I hope what we are doing now in Italy can help us, but I'm not a really good feeling about it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 10, 2020, 05:54:43 PM
My daughter packed off to DC yesterday for her 8th grade field trip. There were some thoughts they might cancel it but in the end they decided to go with the school principal accompanying. I'll admit I am a little nervous but I want her to have this experience. I am starting to suspect the school to close down for a few weeks in the near future, which seems to be happening in some other states already (mostly colleges).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 10, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
My daughter packed off to DC yesterday for her 8th grade field trip. There were some thoughts they might cancel it but in the end they decided to go with the school principal accompanying. I'll admit I am a little nervous but I want her to have this experience. I am starting to suspect the school to close down for a few weeks in the near future, which seems to be happening in some other states already (mostly colleges).

I teach a college course, and while we haven't had any talk of shut downs, we have been getting updated attendance policy emails from HR. Basically boils down to "If a student says their doctor told them to quarantine, they're off the hook". We still need a doctors note saying it was done under advisement, but we won't drop/fail students for it.

Given I teach a hands-on, in-class lab, we're all trying to figure out just what the hell we'll do if the school does close up campus. Not like we can mail a bunch of desert landscape to our students to frolic around counting plants, nor do we expect them to keep dissection kits in their closets. (Granted my state has had fewer than 10 cases so far, and none within an hours drive of us yet, but at least plans are being made).

On the plus side, weird virus is weird, and kids are actually just about the safest group in this lunacy. Unless they need to poop, of course, that is now only for the rich and racketeers. (We haven't had anyone stealing TP at work yet, but that's probably because facilities stocks the stalls with industrial grade single ply)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 11, 2020, 06:51:28 AM
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 11, 2020, 06:57:53 AM
Oh my! At 0:55 in that clip....
 ::)

BUT, I will say, if wearing two garbage bags and a some grocery bags calms you down, then please wear them!  I don't want to be near anyone who is not calm.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 11, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
COVID-19 / SARS-CoV-2 has just been officially declared a global pandemic by WHO. This would mark the first pandemic in history to be able to be controlled if public health measures prove to be effective.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 11, 2020, 12:24:04 PM
Take a look
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 11, 2020, 01:19:59 PM
Take a look

This is a patent for the genetic sequence of the virus that causes SARS (also a coronavirus). There was an outbreak in 2003 and this is from the research of that outbreak. Itís owned by the CDC to ensure public access to the information.

Please do not spread misinformation by jumping to conclusions about things that you do not understand.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 11, 2020, 01:29:11 PM
I didn't see any attempt to spread any misinformation ("Take a look" didn't tell me anything about the patent or readily imply anything sinister).  Is the patent being used elsewhere for such a purpose?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 11, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
I didn't see any attempt to spread any misinformation ("Take a look" didn't tell me anything about the patent or readily imply anything sinister).  Is the patent being used elsewhere for such a purpose?
I believe he is referencing this post...
All i know about this Virus is that is a bioweapon planted by the US military in China at the war games of Wuhan.
Davos (the oligarchy) was preparing this since last year. The Virus first appeared in Italy in place very close to a US military base.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 11, 2020, 01:40:55 PM
I didn't see any attempt to spread any misinformation ("Take a look" didn't tell me anything about the patent or readily imply anything sinister).  Is the patent being used elsewhere for such a purpose?

That patent (and others gleaned from a google patent search) are being used across the internet to suggest that the COVID-19 pandemic is a purposeful release associated with the CDC and USG. That patent is clearly about the 2003 SARS epidemic and related to open-access of the virusí genetic information.

Sowing baseless mistrust in public health institutions is irresponsible.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 11, 2020, 01:43:13 PM
And they patented and published it because they're just really shit at being evil geniuses and covering their tracks.
Hehe.  I think that is why my mind didn't go down the sinister conspiracy route when I saw what the picture was.

Sowing baseless mistrust in public health institutions is irresponsible.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on March 11, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
well, Austria is shutting down step by step. events with more than 100 people indoors or 500 outdoors are forbidden, meaning all concerts and festivals in the near future got cancelled. This includes the entire European tour of Russian Circles, which I was looking forward to since they announced it.
So far, all the measures taken only affect personal life. they don't touch anything related to economy, which I find half-arsed to be honest. I have far more contact with other people in my company (900 employees on site) than anywhere else. Schools are slowly following and closing down, so that means parents will start staying home too. I wonder how this is regulated in terms of salary as this is basically a decision by the government that forces your hand...
Hopefully Trump is right for once in his life and this "will blow over in April when it gets warmer". Fingers crossed

stay safe!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 11, 2020, 02:36:26 PM
Just wanna step back into the thread here and say I would like to see this topic stick to factual data in terms of current cases and projections. And (obviously) how it might be personally impacting you or people you know. Let's keep conjecture, spurious arguments and far-fetched hypotheticals to a minimum. Not that it's a big issue thus far, but this continues to shape up to be very serious here in the US (and of course much more so in other parts of the world). I'm anxious to see if we start seeing exponential growth in cases by the end of next week (in the US).

I'm actually now considering the impact it might have on mbp, as well. There might be some reasonable precautionary steps for me to take considering I am sending out merchandise from my home that comes from overseas. But, I haven't made a decision yet.

Anyway, please keep carrying on!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 11, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
I was actually slightly concerned last night and today (not for my self, but I've had contact with my parents who would be at risk) as I started sneezing and coughing but then when my eyes started to get itchy after sitting outside, I realised I'm now going to be a social pariah in public with hay fever for the next 2/3 months!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 11, 2020, 02:58:47 PM
Well people, we're in deep shit. Italy is being locked down, and it looks like a regime.
Everybody is asking why this is happening, and these are the things floating around on facebook and twitter.
I thought this was relevant, so i posted it.
Many people in Italy actually believe this is an act of war by the US government, that's it.
We are freaking out
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 11, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
Well people, we're in deep shit. Italy is being locked down, and it looks like a regime.
Everybody is asking why this is happening, and these are the things floating around on facebook and twitter.
I thought this was relevant, so i posted it.
Many people in Italy actually believe this is an act of war by the US government, that's it.
We are freaking out

The USA did not attack Italy so please be reassured of this. :)

Could you expand on what you mean by "locked down"? I ask because another Italian described it as "Ministerial Decree that obliges us to minimize travel outside the home", which sounds like a voluntary travel advisory.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 11, 2020, 03:44:56 PM

Everybody is asking why this is happening, and these are the things floating around on facebook and twitter.

You should really stop using those. Everyone knows they are full of nonsense.

Quote
We are freaking out
...because of what you see on FB and Twit. Seriously, tell everyone you know to not use it anymore for this very reason. If you have to look you should be very, very skeptical of everything you see there.

Don't give in to the paranoia and mob psychology.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 11, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
No dude, since tomorrow everything is closed, except for malls and hospitals. You get arrested is you try to drive to the next town. And the US attacked Italy as they did with China and Iran. We can only hope the the US regime will collapse. Long live China
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pietro_moog on March 11, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
Btw people, you're just 15 days away from us.
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1237852099536281600?s=20
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 11, 2020, 04:03:20 PM
Enough. Take it somewhere else.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 12, 2020, 04:01:46 PM
Thread is re-opened after 24 hour quarantine. Let's let cool heads prevail this time. Or, I'll have to start administering vaccines.

Anyway, things continue to develop. If you have any personal impact stories let's hear them. Next week is spring break for the kids here so they have not announced any school closings yet. But, I think it may be coming even though the claim is TN is a "low risk" area of the country (until it isn't, of course).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on March 12, 2020, 04:37:02 PM
I work in higher ed. Yesterday the provost told us at a leadership meeting that they weren't intending to close. By 3 pm today, they announced that we're going online for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 12, 2020, 04:39:22 PM
Rumor mill suggests school closure announcement for my city will come tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 12, 2020, 04:46:58 PM
Thread is re-opened after 24 hour quarantine. Let's let cool heads prevail this time. Or, I'll have to start administering vaccines.

Anyway, things continue to develop. If you have any personal impact stories let's hear them. Next week is spring break for the kids here so they have not announced any school closings yet. But, I think it may be coming even though the claim is TN is a "low risk" area of the country (until it isn't, of course).

Spring break here in Ontario next week as well. A couple hours ago provincial government announced all publically funded schools will be closed a further two weeks afterwards, a few million kids on the loose.

My wife retired her teacher career  Dec. 31 2019.

dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on March 12, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
I'm glad I live in a remote area of Northern Canada. We won't likely have a case within hundreds of kilometres of where we are. Schools are still going here, as is our church and our local hockey team is in a playoff race.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dont-tase-me-bro on March 12, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Joe rogan had an infectious disease guy on - he lays out what science suggests will come in the US soon.  Very interesting show

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 12, 2020, 06:01:59 PM
My daughters school canceled school next week and bumped up spring break to the week after, so Chattanooga is out of school for at least 2 weeks, maybe longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on March 12, 2020, 06:24:40 PM
Agree with Bean that cool heads need to prevail.  I work for a major financial exchange and while we're doing Pandemic staffing maneuvers to see how it would affect day to day operations it's mostly business as usual.  With the recent flurry of trading activity our main concern is hard drives melting down due to intense activity.  Drives were never meant to deal with this sort of duty cycle.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on March 12, 2020, 07:19:04 PM
All non-essentials (ie. Not manufacturing or manufacturing support) are working from home for the next two weeks at my work.  I'll find out tomorrow how manufacturing support will be the next two weeks, I'm thinking working from home a few days for the next two weeks.

I'm worried about what this will look like the week after people get back from spring break.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 12, 2020, 07:46:07 PM
My university is still working out ways to go digital if necessary. We just had our first confirmed case in my county (import, not local transmission) so the worry ratchet up a notch.

The trouble is I teach a hands-on, technique based class. Hard to test you on "Can you do a Gram stain" unless you actually can do a Gram stain. But I'm sure something will be worked out.

Annoyed they cancelled the book fair though, first time in years I actually have spare time enough to attend and it isn't happening.  :-\ C'est la vie.


And Remember:
(https://www.who.int/gpsc/media/how_to_handwash_lge.gif)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 12, 2020, 08:20:33 PM
walmart is inexplicably out of dry goods like beans, rice, spam, and the like ... like we're going to lose electricity and running water. cashier told us they sold nine pallets of asswipe in minutes. I'm over here just doing my daily normal. I may end up being wrong and irresponsible but I just don't have the fear.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 12, 2020, 09:41:42 PM
walmart is inexplicably out of dry goods like beans, rice, spam, and the like ... like we're going to lose electricity and running water. cashier told us they sold nine pallets of asswipe in minutes. I'm over here just doing my daily normal. I may end up being wrong and irresponsible but I just don't have the fear.

Just stopped by the grocery store and found this:

(https://i.imgur.com/jLOQrQd.jpg)

I feel bad for all the dorm dwellers who will be starving soon.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 12, 2020, 09:49:44 PM
I'm getting increasingly annoyed by a guy at work, who honestly does not seem to understand how the stock market works, and that your "money" in the stock market, is tied to the value of the shares you own. If the shares you own go down in value, you have less "money", and if they go up, so does your "money". I'm using quote marks because it is not actual, hard, spendable money until you sell those shares, at which point the money is tied to a set price at one point in time.

If I had spare money, I'd be buying shares in all the long term companies I can that have been dropping. Every single freakin' time an emergency happens, people sellsellsell, and what do you know, after things recover, the share prices go back up... weird, it's like stock prices fluctuate, who knew?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 12, 2020, 10:32:08 PM
Pretty much all schools in Houston closed for at least the rest of the month.

Rodeo canceled (Thank God, such a stupid event)

I'm with Brian, no point in blaming and conspiracy theories. Let's keep this thread informative.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on March 12, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
According to the wife, toilet paper, and dry goods are gone in SoCal.  Good news, still plenty of beer!  However, I will stock up tomorrow to be sure  ::) Funny to me that cough medicines and ibuprofen/acetaminophen are still available, those seem like more obvious things to hoard.  Also weird is the bottled water is sparse.  I don't think the virus will affect the faucet.

All the colleges are closed, I expect the elementary and high schools to close soon, my guess is a phone call tomorrow night. I'm lucky I have a high school kid to watch the younger kids, if this takes longer than expected.

I know the EU travel ban was reported to be for 30 days, but American Airlines isn't booking flights until after October.  My guess is that's the CDC plan, but the administration is trying to ease the public into it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 13, 2020, 12:41:35 AM
Fortunately Iím back to being a stay at home parent again. Thereís only one case five or six hours away in the entire country Iím in and a few that are suspected about four hours away. However the government has taken the step of closing schools, malls, movie theaters and large gatherings to make sure when this thing hits here that it doesnít spread like wildfire. The locals are pretty levelheaded and all seem to agree itís a good idea and that the government is being smart and the people are handling things well, so thatís reassuring.

Kicker is my wife got a wicked case of influenza A and has been sick all week, so while Iíve wanted to go stock up on crap I havenít had much of a chance.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 13, 2020, 12:55:21 AM
Nothing's really changed here in northern England. No real evidence of panic buying yet. That said, I think it's only a matter of time with the sheer amount of 'news' happening regarding the situation.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 13, 2020, 03:53:29 AM
I'm getting increasingly annoyed by a guy at work, who honestly does not seem to understand how the stock market works, and that your "money" in the stock market, is tied to the value of the shares you own. If the shares you own go down in value, you have less "money", and if they go up, so does your "money". I'm using quote marks because it is not actual, hard, spendable money until you sell those shares, at which point the money is tied to a set price at one point in time.

If I had spare money, I'd be buying shares in all the long term companies I can that have been dropping. Every single freakin' time an emergency happens, people sellsellsell, and what do you know, after things recover, the share prices go back up... weird, it's like stock prices fluctuate, who knew?
Because I am not retiring anytime soon, I am actually quite selfishly happy the markets are doing poorly.  I keep pumping the same money into my funds, but I'm getting more shares for my dollars.  Had to explain this to someone just yesterday.  Yes, it could be difficult for someone who is drawing money out of an account, but if you are still paying in, it is a good situation to be in.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on March 13, 2020, 04:44:21 AM
I live in Ohio and work both in elementary education and college athletics. Everything in regards to those two is shut down, or will be by 4pm this afternoon (Mar-13). TP stock is low at the grocery stores but not wiped out. Panic is low but concern is high.

As of right now, the effect of this is hitting high school and college senior spring sport athletes the hardest. (I know, not necessarily the demographic that is of the most concern here, but one I directly deal with). For our seniors, its the end of their playing careers, and they had absolutely no say in it. Only the ones with enough money who can afford a 5th year will get to come back. Its devastating for them that something they put so much time and effort into just be taken away. For us on staff, its heartbreaking knowing we likely will never get to work with these young men in that capacity again. I'm at a loss. This better be the biggest casualty to come from this pandemic, because that will mean these measures actually worked.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 13, 2020, 06:09:48 AM
I live in Ohio and work both in elementary education and college athletics. Everything in regards to those two is shut down, or will be by 4pm this afternoon (Mar-13). TP stock is low at the grocery stores but not wiped out. Panic is low but concern is high.

As of right now, the effect of this is hitting high school and college senior spring sport athletes the hardest. (I know, not necessarily the demographic that is of the most concern here, but one I directly deal with). For our seniors, its the end of their playing careers, and they had absolutely no say in it. Only the ones with enough money who can afford a 5th year will get to come back. Its devastating for them that something they put so much time and effort into just be taken away. For us on staff, its heartbreaking knowing we likely will never get to work with these young men in that capacity again. I'm at a loss. This better be the biggest casualty to come from this pandemic, because that will mean these measures actually worked.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Hope things calm down a little stateside for everyone. I worked in a high school until this year and I just canít imagine what itíd be like to deal with schools being closed for a month in the middle of the school year. Although I do recall this is the big stretch of no holidays where I was so I guess some silver lining, right?

Where do you live in Ohio, I grew up in the burbs of Dayton and am still pretty connected to there. Sad for the UD team to have such a good year and have it taken away.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 13, 2020, 06:46:08 AM
The official announcement yesterday is that schools are not yet closing in my city, but students will be sent home with "remote learning packets" to be used if the need arises.  They seem to be waiting for evidence of community spread, and I will defer to their wisdom.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 13, 2020, 06:53:24 AM
Oh, and thank you for bringing the discussion back Brian. Itís nice to have some cool heads and some experts handy.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 13, 2020, 07:20:19 AM
Because I am not retiring anytime soon, I am actually quite selfishly happy the markets are doing poorly.  I keep pumping the same money into my funds, but I'm getting more shares for my dollars.  Had to explain this to someone just yesterday.  Yes, it could be difficult for someone who is drawing money out of an account, but if you are still paying in, it is a good situation to be in.

My wife and I had a lengthy discussion about this last night. In the last two weeks our retirement has lost almost 25% of its value and that will likely continue. On one hand, yeah, it will come back eventually and we have a lot of safe stock. OTOH, I was hoping to get her to retire within 7 years and now that may no longer be a possibility (if we keep our original goal). But, I'm trying to keep a healthy perspective. A recession was already impending (sorry, "correction"!) and this is just both the firing pin and the thing that is compounding the severity, I guess.

Still, there are more important concerns for the immediate future like safety and trying to maintain some normalcy in the coming weeks. Hey, there's always the chance this thing flips to a zombie apocalypse and at least I can look forward to being woefully unprepared for that.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 13, 2020, 07:46:37 AM
The official announcement yesterday is that schools are not yet closing in my city, but students will be sent home with "remote learning packets" to be used if the need arises.  They seem to be waiting for evidence of community spread, and I will defer to their wisdom.

I don't want this to come across as alarmist, but the lack of confirmed cases as this point should not be taken as evidence of the absence of community-spread viral transmission.

The issue with closing schools (particularly primary/secondary levels) is much more difficult than canceling sporting events. First, that puts an onerous burden on guardians to handle childcare (impacting their work, etc.). Second, those ages groups present an epidemiologic issue: young demographics are not necessarily exhibiting symptoms of the virus (at least to the extent that older demographics are), so they can be asymptomatic carriers. If they are in school, they are contained to a degree; if schools are canceled, that becomes a community risk.

Most of these contact interventions are being issued on the assumption that community spread is more or less in every metro area. The proposed surveillance studies in major US metro areas haven't happened due to the inability to issue enough tests to achieve coverage. Unfortunately, we're no longer in a containment stage; we can mitigate the strain on health systems and attempt to limit the impact of the virus, though.

Public health in outbreaks/epidemics is always tough. There's always a concern of balancing public information but avoiding panic. Also, ensuring the proportionality of the response is an incredibly difficult task. If the response is inadequate, public health systems and leadership failed to address a threat; if it works or the threat proves to be less serious than that for which the response was designed, they failed by going too far. Both can damage public trust in public health systems. In the moment, no one has the benefit of hindsight. Also, the best outcome(s) with public health interventions and programs are seen by most people as just everyday life. It is difficult to express in times like this that measures are constantly running behind the scenes to ensure health and safety for populations.

In the US, state/local municipalities seem to taking ownership of the response due to the lack of adequate federal leadership. Those responses are working out to be rather coordinated, so hopefully that helps. Also, national organizations (e.g., sports and entertainment) are canceling events and other scheduling in a way that also creates a national consistency. I sincerely hope that we start to see more active response measures soon in addition to passive ones.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 13, 2020, 07:54:27 AM
I'm getting increasingly annoyed by a guy at work, who honestly does not seem to understand how the stock market works, and that your "money" in the stock market, is tied to the value of the shares you own. If the shares you own go down in value, you have less "money", and if they go up, so does your "money". I'm using quote marks because it is not actual, hard, spendable money until you sell those shares, at which point the money is tied to a set price at one point in time.

If I had spare money, I'd be buying shares in all the long term companies I can that have been dropping. Every single freakin' time an emergency happens, people sellsellsell, and what do you know, after things recover, the share prices go back up... weird, it's like stock prices fluctuate, who knew?
I know, these people are making my ďmoneyĒ go down. We just have to wait it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bret608 on March 13, 2020, 08:11:34 AM
The two-year college where I work pretty much followed suit with UW and will extend our spring break by an additional week. Faculty and staff including me will still report to work. However, unlike UW our leadership has not yet said whether the remainder of the semester will happen through online instruction or students will physically come back.

Our public K-12 schools have spring break at the end of this month, but no additional closures have been announced just yet. That said, any large events or field trips are already cancelled. My daughters kind of feel in limbo, especially with things like AP tests coming up.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 13, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
Hey, there is a new positive side. If we are all "working" at home then we can bullshit all day and build pedals, right?

Maybe we need a COVID-19 group build thread. For funsies.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 13, 2020, 08:47:57 AM
Hey, there is a new positive side. If we are all "working" at home then we can bullshit all day and build pedals, right?

Ha, I'd like to see them try and run a slaughterhouse with everyone working from home.

I sometimes think that journalists think that everyone, or at least 97% of everyone, work a desk job.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: SirEgno on March 13, 2020, 08:52:59 AM
Hey, there is a new positive side. If we are all "working" at home then we can bullshit all day and build pedals, right?

yes, just today my last MBP order was delivered!
at the office...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 13, 2020, 09:34:31 AM
Hey, there is a new positive side. If we are all "working" at home then we can bullshit all day and build pedals, right?

Maybe we need a COVID-19 group build thread. For funsies.
Oh yeah, Iím totally ready for that. Other than building supplies, I havenít bought anything in the last 3 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on March 13, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Just got the word from my work, next two weeks I'm working from home, only coming in one day a week...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jjjimi84 on March 13, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
I just checked my work e-mail and all non-essential, non-transportation related jobs may work from home. Amid everything that has been a really tough 8 months for my company and industry as a whole this was a shock. We don't even stop for Christmas, so this will be interesting to see what happens with the union side of things. I guess I am lucky that I have been deemed essential which is nice......I think.

My wife has a little cold going on and was sent home from work, she said everyone stared at her like she was about spray blood on them.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on March 13, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
more safety measures were announced in Austria and fake news about it was spread like wildfire before hand, leading people to go nuts. the actual measures take by the governement are not too bad and make total sense. When I came home from work today at 4pm I went shopping as usual to get some stuff for the weekend and next week and there was - expectedly - no pasta, rice, canned stuff anymore, but also no milk, eggs, vegetables. and toilet paper really seems to be the most important part of daily life for people...

anyhow, I'm sure we will get through this even if some things will take more effort to do or will just have to wait. The thing that annoys me most atm is that the canteen closed and that my climbing gym will most likely not be an option in the coming weeks.

Hey, there is a new positive side. If we are all "working" at home then we can bullshit all day and build pedals, right?

if my company finally decides to do home office, I will run out of work quite fast actually as I rely on my lab work and data coming out of it. After doing some CAD, data analysis and project planning, I fully intend to finally finish that darn HiFi amp that has been mostly sitting around since 2017.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: JoeR3155 on March 13, 2020, 10:30:33 AM
Recent events have inspired me to change my avatar...
<<<
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 13, 2020, 10:37:21 AM
Remember when I said the plan was not to close schools in my city?

The plan now is to close schools in my city. 

Closed for a month, starting Monday.  My work has expanded telework options in a somewhat ambiguous way, so I will have to work out how that will go exactly.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on March 13, 2020, 11:03:22 AM
In addition to working at a university, I've been taking welding classes there part time for almost the last year. I don't have any idea how they expect us to do that remotely. I feel bad for the other guys in the class who are paying for it and/or expect to get a job in a few months.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on March 13, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
This is so incredibly ironic and fitting to a discussion about COVID-19:

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 13, 2020, 07:59:25 PM
I've been seeing a lot people asking "How are celebrities getting tested when there are no tests available?!?!" and going off on conspiracy theories, so I thought I'd offer an some info of how the test works.

Short answer, you can order the test supplies from any decent biotech supplier, provided you have the money and equipment. Let me explain.

Currently, the way the virus is detected in people is via RT-PCR. This stands for "Reverse transcriptase - Polymerase chain reaction". PCR is how we make copies of DNA, you make a tiny bit of DNA that "targets" the section you want to copy (these targeting bits are called Primers), mix them with DNA Polymerase (an enzyme that makes DNA) and the stuff it needs to work (nucleotides and buffers), and the piece of DNA you're building from (called the template). You then place this mix in a machine (thermocycler) that cycles the reaction so it happens over and over and over, and after a few hours, you have thousands if not millions of copies of your piece of DNA.

Now SARS-CoV-2 is an RNA virus, no DNA to work from, so we have to add a second enzyme called Reverse Transcriptase. This makes a DNA copy of the RNA that our normal PCR mix can work on. Our template is a sample from the patient, a sputum sample (deep cough phlegm), sinus swab, and/or throat swab.

The Enzyme mix is easy, you can order it in bulk, about a thousand bucks for 100 reactions worth. The machinery is also easy but not cheap, a decent thermocycler will run you several thousand dollars (though I'm seeing them on ebay as low as 250$). Honestly the only really tricky bit is designing those Primers so that they will only target a specific bit of genetic material only found in the SARS virus.

But, those primers? The design of them is publicly available. https://meridianlifescience.com/primers-and-probes-described-by-who Right there, all the sequences as approved by the WHO you'd need to ID the virus. You can order them from a dozen places on the web and get them overnighted. Pretty cheap honestly, a few hundred reactions worth of primer is about 10$ (plus shipping). You need 2 primers per reaction, and you'd probably want to check several genes at once just for verification sake, but still not terrible.

So you swab the patient, concentrate down the material, add it to your enzyme and primer mix, and put it in the machine. Come back in 3-4 hours, and then visualize the results (this is done by running the sample on a slab of gel, takes about an hour). It does take some skill, but any benchmonkey with a few hours training can do this. I've taught undergrads to run PCRs in a 3 hour lab and gotten good results, the underlying technology may be amazing but the hands-on work is drudgery.

Now, what we don't currently have here in the US is a government approved, all-in-one boxed up kit to send out to hospitals and doctors for this (or at least, very limited supplies). This is the stumbling block for large scale testing. But the fact that private doctors are getting tests run isn't some great conspiracy, it's just DIY. I've seen that Bill Gates is trying to fund an "At Home" test to be sent out in bulk, but that is literally just the swab. Samples are collected and sent off to labs to be run just like normal.

I do agree our government is being rather.... incompetent with its handling of this situation, but I prefer to think of it as a case of Hanlon's Razor. Don't ascribe to malice that which is adequately described by stupidity. Maybe I'm being naive, but god knows I need something to keep me sane.


(Oh and if you're curious, the Probes with FAM---BBQ on that primer page are for use with a somewhat more advanced version of PCR that lets you get results in real-time, and lets you know how much template you started with, which requires more expensive materials, more expensive machinery, and more expertise to run. My description was for the simple set up)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on March 13, 2020, 09:24:39 PM
Somnif:  I am a scientist at a biotech company.  We have developed  a few in-vitro diagnostic tests, not for Covid-19, but in general.   You are right, the principal of the test are simple.  In fact, we ordered the primers and supplies for Covid-19 a few days ago, just so we can test ourselves if need be.  The trick is to validate the test and prove that it is giving accurate results.  This is what is required to have an FDA registered test, and it is cumbersome.  For example, the swabs you are describing are not FDA approved for OTC test. This regulation is typically a good thing.  It keeps the claims and performance of a test in check. 

A work around to an FDA registered test is a lab developed test (LDT). The law is such that a hospital can run their own LDT, but only for their patients.  They would not be able to market the test outside of their hospital, although there are ways to bend this rule.  The tests you are talking about are most likely this and not a conspiracy.  The system is designed to protect people from bad tests (i.e., false positive and  false negative results), however, in crisis the system is not nimble. 

The bigger problem with our system is the dependance on industry to do these things.  There isn't a profit incentive (unless you are a celebrity and willing to pay) for companies to make these type of public heath tests and go through all the FDA hoops.  The CDC is supposed to be able to pick up this slack, amongst their other responsibilities, but their version of the test didn't work as expected.  In my opinion, todays announcement was basically, that the US is willing to pay Quest to do tests and not scrutinize the accuracy (or protect them from liability, I'm not sure how emergency authorization works exactly).   
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 13, 2020, 09:30:36 PM
I've read a couple times in newspapers here in Ontario Canada that more of our population of 14.5 million have been tested for the virus than the number of people tested in all of the US at this point in time, 10  hours ago the published number of positives  was 79.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 13, 2020, 09:43:11 PM
This regulation is typically a good thing.  It keeps the claims and performance of a test in check. 

You're absolutely right, I was just commenting as I've been seeing people getting legitimately angry in my town that our Basketball players were getting tested while nurses were not. Commenting on the "how" of people could get tested, rather than the logistical hurdles.

I wholeheartedly agree that testing is important (I did a semester long project on Thalidomide at one point, waiting for better data is awesome). But the fact a few people are doing a run around doesn't mean the government is "holding out on us" as I've heard said. Just means some people are willing to brute force the issue for self-quarantine purposes.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 14, 2020, 02:28:27 PM
Once everything calms down again, can we all converge on Tennessee with our musical gear and celebrate with a Beanstock (Beanstalk?) festival?  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 15, 2020, 11:08:03 AM
2nd positive test result in my city.  Local emergency declared.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 15, 2020, 01:43:33 PM
So, being an expat at the moment Iím curious about honest opinions how things are going in the states. From the outside looking in it seems like things are going a little cuckoo, but i suspect that isnít really the case. Just curious.

Where Iím at schools have been closed, large events cancelled, theyíre locking down the borders and asking people to not travel within the country. But there are only a handful of confirmed cases. The locals seem to be handling things well. Everyone seems to be at ease and I think people thought I was crazy to be stocking up on food and stuff whatnot.

I imagine itís not to different there, just checking
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 15, 2020, 02:25:24 PM
I'm troubled that there's been a run on literally everything BUT the beer/wine aisle ... if this is the end times or you're stuck at home with your kids until the 30th like me you only have so long before Lloyd is serving you imaginary drinks at the bar
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 15, 2020, 02:34:32 PM
I'm troubled that there's been a run on literally everything BUT the beer/wine aisle ... if this is the end times or you're stuck at home with your kids until the 30th like me you only have so long before Lloyd is serving you imaginary drinks at the bar
What do you mean, imaginary, I was just talking to my 'pal Grady here about some people that need to be... corrected.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 15, 2020, 11:18:20 PM
Welp, tis official, my university is telling students to not come back after spring break, all classes moving to Online through the end of the semester. They're giving dorm dwellers 3 days to either collect their stuff and move out, or provide proof they have nowhere else to go and get permission to stay on campus.

Wheeee. Probably means I'm going to be doing 72 students worth of plate culturing so they have enough data to do their term projects on. (Unless we just decided to fake it and make up data for them, director is still undecided on the matter)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on March 15, 2020, 11:41:33 PM
21 cases reported in Nevada, with 9 in my area, Washoe County (Reno area).
I know of at least one casino closing. Don't know about the rest of them, but i think its likely they will follow suit.
Casinos are a major source of tax revenue here and employee a massive amount of people.

Tesla, where I work is still operating. Several thousand people work there (I've been off on medical leave for a few months (unrelated to the virus).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on March 16, 2020, 01:08:51 AM
Went to Walmart to do my normal shopping and get some health related things.
They are now only open 6AM - 11PM.

And this is unrelated, but relevant.
I live practically a stones throw away from Hwy 80 (maybe not a stone, but could hit it with a BB gun).
Its a MAJOR trucking/shipping route.
Its been closed at the California/Nevada border for 2 days now due to a storm.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 16, 2020, 07:56:24 AM
My agency announced yesterday that employees should telework to the extent possible until further notice, up to 80 hours per biweek.  Our buildings are closed to the public.  Daycare is still open for now.

Edit: daycare just closed.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: playpunk on March 16, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
All the N.Y. State Courts are closed, local justice and city courts are closed, I canít do in person visits with incarcerated clients, Fed Courts are screening everyone and taking temperatures: Erie County where the WDNY is located has a bunch of confirmed cases, and there are confirmed cases in a county whose jail I went into on Thursday last week.

I feel like I could have unwittingly spread the virus by just doing my normal work last week and I feel bad about it. As a nation and world wide community of humans we need to shut it down for a few weeks and get this thing under control
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 16, 2020, 10:39:56 AM
All the N.Y. State Courts are closed, local justice and city courts are closed, I canít do in person visits with incarcerated clients, Fed Courts are screening everyone and taking temperatures: Erie County where the WDNY is located has a bunch of confirmed cases, and there are confirmed cases in a county whose jail I went into on Thursday last week.

I feel like I could have unwittingly spread the virus by just doing my normal work last week and I feel bad about it. As a nation and world wide community of humans we need to shut it down for a few weeks and get this thing under control

Can you give any more information regarding the treatment of incarcerated persons in re COVID-19? There's been a real absence of policy attention given to homeless and incarcerated populations (at least that I know of).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on March 16, 2020, 11:13:56 AM
Over at my side of the pond, my company is also doing the same half-arsed commitment as the government (which has tightened things further as preventive measure) and is not sending non-production employees into home-office, but try to have a 50:50 solution. Who the *** cares about it, if my R&D project is delayed for 2 months or so? even if I'm in the office, all my cooperation partners that I heavily rely on, are shutting down and I have shit to do in the lab in a foreseeable future.

Went to Walmart to do my normal shopping and get some health related things.
They are now only open 6AM - 11PM.

this is funny. In Austria, shops are regularly open 7:30 - 19:30, so I don't see your complain :D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 16, 2020, 05:56:41 PM
We just got back from the store and it's pretty rough. All the meats, eggs, butter, bread, 95% canned goods, 90% of cereals are cleaned out. Decent amount of chips, snacks, and cracker types available. Fresh produce is still rockin' and milk was stocked. Actually saw about a dozen containers of disinfectant wipes on the shelves. Still no paper products. Very strange to see, looked like a going out of business sale.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 16, 2020, 07:08:15 PM
I now get to keep all the library books, magazines, cd's & dvd's i have home until April 14...
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on March 16, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
Paper towels were on yesterdays shopping list but the only ones left were some goofy brand I've never heard of.  I'd be better off drying my hands on the drapes.

But hey, I've got six rolls...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 16, 2020, 09:27:36 PM
This sh*t is insane

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 17, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
We're in day two of work from home and it has become clear that I am the caretaker. I've always been the caretaker.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 17, 2020, 02:48:03 PM
We're in day two of work from home and it has become clear that I am the caretaker. I've always been the caretaker.

Wife was working from home for two weeks b/c of the tornado. Now wife and child will be home for the next two weeks or longer from COVID. I'm considering going to the store and start licking the hands of strangers.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on March 17, 2020, 03:51:11 PM
That cracked me up :-)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 17, 2020, 04:14:58 PM
We're in day two of work from home and it has become clear that I am the caretaker. I've always been the caretaker.

Wife was working from home for two weeks b/c of the tornado. Now wife and child will be home for the next two weeks or longer from COVID. I'm considering going to the store and start licking the hands of strangers.
Bwahahahaha (https://media3.giphy.com/media/PAkDKjXcquqK4/giphy.gif)
 My wife works nights, but sheís had a cold , so sheís been home too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on March 17, 2020, 04:17:26 PM
My university just announced that we'll be teaching online until further notice. All staff will be assigned work from home duties too. I expect that this will mean layoffs too.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lrgaraujo on March 17, 2020, 07:26:22 PM
Brazil had its first confirmed Covid-19 death today and we seem to be entering the exponential curve.
Next few months are gonna be really hard for us
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 18, 2020, 11:38:49 AM
I'm feeling pissed off at pictures of people enjoying Spring Break on crowded beaches. Seems so reckless and disrespectful.
 Never thought I'd ever feel that way. 


There are now 5 people with positive test results in my city.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 18, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
There aren't any confirmed cases in my city yet. My friend's bandmate got tested because he's feeling like ass with a fever, sore throat, and cough. His flu and strep tests came back negative. It's gonna be a few days before he gets the results back.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on March 18, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
My entire Province has declared a state of emergency. Major lockdowns on absolutely everything.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 18, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
We had the first confirmed case in our county today.

Many staples are still missing at the local grocery stores here. In addition to tp/paper towels almost all canned goods, bread, and most meats are gone. However, LOTS of fresh fruit!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 19, 2020, 04:29:50 AM
Wonder how long people can keep this up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 19, 2020, 04:30:20 AM
Wonder how long people can keep this up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 19, 2020, 05:08:42 AM
Wonder how long people can keep this up.
12-18 months is what I'm reading it will take.  Afterward, all restaurants will be named Taco Bell, and we will be using three seashells to clean our asses. 
(https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=400&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F019%2F061%2FThree_Seashells.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 19, 2020, 05:10:16 AM
Wonder how long people can keep this up.
12-18 months is what I'm reading it will take.  Afterward, all restaurants will be named Taco Bell, and we will be using three seashells to clean our asses. 
(https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=400&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F019%2F061%2FThree_Seashells.jpg)
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xT5LMzIK1AdZJ4cYW4/giphy.gif)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 19, 2020, 12:39:13 PM
My friend's bandmate got his results back sooner than expected and he's clear. Buuuuut there is a confirmed case in our county now.   
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 19, 2020, 01:20:05 PM
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: NorthCoast on March 19, 2020, 01:54:14 PM
Several counties here in California - Yolo, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco, San Mateo, Solano, and Santa Clara - are currently under a shelter in place order. And I just heard that Sacramento County, where I'm at, will have an SIP order starting at midnight tonight.

Quote

Sacramento County Public Health Order

Sacramento County has 45 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and three who have died from complications of COVID-19. It is also clear that Sacramento County has community transmission of this virus.

As of March 19, 2020, at 11:59 p.m., the Sacramento County Health Officer is directing all individuals living in the county to stay at their place of residence except for essential activities. The legal order is based on the same directives of social distancing issued this week to slow the transmission of the disease, but it provides more detail and enforcement ability. The legal order limits activity, travel and business functions to only the most essential needs and is intended to protect those most vulnerable to the disease, slow the spread of the novel coronavirus, and preserve local healthcare capacity.



https://www.saccounty.net/news/latest-news/Pages/SacCountyHealthOfficerIssuesCOVID-19Order.aspx


https://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/yolo-county-orders-residents-to-shelter-in-place/
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 19, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
https://www.themarysue.com/in-this-time-of-panic-we-look-to-generation-x-for-inspiration/

"Staying at home prowess"  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 19, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
In other news, with everyone quarantined, divorce rate on the rise.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 19, 2020, 03:50:48 PM
In other news, with everyone quarantined, divorce rate on the rise.
Whole lotta people rethinking their life choices.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 19, 2020, 06:07:52 PM
My Sister & Her Husband are quite sure they have it, in their 40's and they seem fine, just a weird bad illness.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 19, 2020, 06:45:07 PM
My Sister & Her Husband are quite sure they have it, in their 40's and they seem fine, just a weird bad illness.


I hope they are okay.

But I will say They should get tested if possible. My wife was very ill last week and we were worried it might be covid19. Doctor gave her a flu test to rule that out first and it came back positive for influenza type a. We were surprised at how severe of a flu it was.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on March 19, 2020, 06:58:04 PM
My Sister & Her Husband are quite sure they have it, in their 40's and they seem fine, just a weird bad illness.


I hope they are okay.

But I will say They should get tested if possible. My wife was very ill last week and we were worried it might be covid19. Doctor gave her a flu test to rule that out first and it came back positive for influenza type a. We were surprised at how severe of a flu it was.
Oh they've stopped testing here pretty much for all but severe cases/essential workers, if you feel ill you just have to isolate for 7 days now with whatever you have unless it needs further attention. Health service can't cope with general patients any more.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 19, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Been a crazy week so far.

Woke up Monday in Kyiv. Over the weekend we learned that they were going to close the borders for at least three weeks. No flights in or out. Iím at high risk because of my asthma and was told I should go because the health care system in Ukraine was not at all prepared for this.

Around 10am the call was made that we had to go. I started packing whatever I could. Wife got home around noon and packed as much as she could. Is and the three little ones left  for the airport at 1pm and were on literally the last flight out at 4.  Werenít sure weíd make it.

Had an overnight layover and got back to DC Tuesday night. Managed to give our little guy a somewhat normal 3rd birthday party Wednesday. Now we found a townhouse on air bnb, stocked up on food and a couple supplies and will continue to self quarantine for the rest of the two weeks.

So much is uncertain at the moment but things are calming down a bit.

All seemed a bit extreme but we heard there was less than 30 respirators in the entire city and that the estimation is that the whole healthcare system might just collapse.

Hopefully weíll go back, but we have no idea when.

Ironically there were almost no confirmed cases where we were so I almost feel like we walked into a more dangerous situation. We stayed at a hotel that first night and man that seemed like a bad idea. Seemed like a good place to spread and collect germs.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 21, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

Science is great!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 21, 2020, 01:28:12 PM
Oh, and if you haven't seen this video already,  it lays out all the details in a very clear and visual way, plus gives you some other info that you might not have already known, it's a good watch.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on March 21, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
Outstanding video. Thank you for posting. I couldn't help but think of something after watching that:  I'm sure in those wet markets that properly bleeding the meat before they sell it is not practiced at all. And I know some people just eat that meat raw or live, as in the case of video clips of ones eating live baby rats. The vast majority of pandemic viruses over the last few decades have been zoonotic in nature. It comes from people eating meat that has tainted blood. So let's clarify the real problem:  it is not the meat or the types of animals. A properly-bled and prepared animal doesn't present a health risk. It's the blood left in the meat from poor preparation practices, or no preparation at all, and the subsequent flippant attitude about it. Cultures the world over will straight-up add blood to dishes, because they don't care about the consequences. Nobody has to eat raw animal meat, or blood, or live animals to survive, so it comes down simply to people choosing to be stupid.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: SirEgno on March 22, 2020, 04:47:19 AM
Today is a month close in my house. I'm planning a party and you are all invited.

And, starting from today the whole Lombardy (Italy) is more in lockdown. All non-essential activities must close, nobody can leave house except for essential shopping and in case of emergency.
honestly I don't see the end. I think that we won't have summer holidays.
IMHO the government moved too late.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 22, 2020, 05:14:15 AM
Fascinating, informative, not sensationalized, and a bit scary nonetheless:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 22, 2020, 07:25:10 AM
My work has now changed from maximum telework flexibility (telework as much as you want) to mandatory telework.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on March 23, 2020, 12:03:33 AM
My work and the wife's work put us on work-from-home from last week, and today the kid has finished his school term 3 weeks early.  Apparently he will have school work to do online for the next 3 weeks.  Let's see how well that goes! 

I'm managing to get out for some exercise each day...signed up for a cycling challenge before the whole virus thing dropped, so I'm trying to do about 10km per day.  Outside Exercise still allowed here as long as in isolation. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 23, 2020, 01:12:21 AM
NZ is now level 3 (heightened restrictions) going to level 4 in a couple days (maximum level.)

Fortunately, my slaughterhouse is apparently an essential service (people gotta eat, I guess.) The one my brother works at down the road is not essential. I'm guessing it's because the one he works at is domestic market, while the one I work at is export as well as domestic.

Edit - my brother's slaughterhouse is essential. Unreliable rumours are unreliable.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 23, 2020, 04:05:06 AM
I have decided to postpone looking for work until after the apocalypse...

Works for me.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 23, 2020, 12:45:45 PM
Schools in my state are now closed for the remainder of the academic year.  I knew this would happen eventually.  I'm guessing my mandatory telework will continue during that time.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 23, 2020, 01:08:13 PM
I have decided to postpone looking for work until after the apocalypse...

Works for me.

See, I started job hunting in January, and... well, I've only got a months rent left and I'm starting to get legitimately frightened of my living situation. My local grocery store held an open hiring fair the other day and there were at least 100 people milling about when I got there (and since we're suppose to avoid groups bigger than 6 I didn't even get out of my car  :-\ ). And not like my student loan company didn't take their pound of flesh this morning, obviously, no reason they'd defer payments right now or anything.

Bleh.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 23, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
Woke up this morning to a small anxiety attack. I think this is really starting to hit me. I'm pretty stoic most of the time but as I started turning over future outcomes everything started to feel a bit grim. We are lucky in that we could weather a few months, maybe even a year, of loss of income (without consideration of potential continued food shortages, etc) but thinking about the possibility of my wife losing her job did make me panic a bit. It could happen and there are good reasons to think she might even if this turns around within just a few months. That would mean loss of our healthcare and even maybe more. And, the prospects of her finding another job in her field (web design/IT) could be grim as well if the economic downturn lasts for a couple of years.

Feeling better now but man, I'm expecting a lot more days like this in the near future. I'm trying to re-focus my worry on the people who are in a lot less fortunate circumstances but I guess one can't help to think about what our lives might be like in 6 months or a year.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 23, 2020, 07:37:22 PM
I am not an optimist by any stretch of the imagination, but the thing we need to remember is what weíre doing now is buying us some time. Time for people to find ways to treat this thing, to develop medicines that can help and to make a vaccine. None of thatís gonna happen overnight, but I canít help but think that weíre so much better positioned to deal with this than ever before. I mean letís be honest a hundred years ago germs spread way faster than information, these days I donít know if thatís the case. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 23, 2020, 09:51:07 PM
NZ goes into lockdown 11:59pm Wednesday (NZT). No non-essential travel, no non-essential work, stay home.

Things are getting... somewhat saner. I visited the Four Square on the way home (suburban konbini / cornershop, whatever you call them, a step up from the Kwik-E-Mart, though :P ) and there were multiple brands of TP available, and all of the flour was gone (despite a 1 Per Customer note on the flour bags.)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 23, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
I work in oil and gas, we are fuuuuucked.

Gloomy days ahead
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 24, 2020, 05:02:13 AM
I'm having a moment of intense fear and panic.  Trump is signalling that he is ready to ignore the advice of every health professional in order to "save" the economy by Reopening 'Merica.  We are about to accelerate ourselves toward loss of human lives on an unprecedented scale.  That's my mindframe, at least.  Other people are free to think differently and feel less scared, of course. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 24, 2020, 06:36:33 AM
I donít think he has got the power to do it. Itís all governors and mayors doing all this stuff.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 24, 2020, 06:41:53 AM
Well as of last night the UK is on lockdown. I'm genuinely surprised they've done it given governments rarely operate on logic and sense* As it is, we're to stay home for 3 weeks. Only essential journeys and they're limited. Those at risk, are locked down for 12 weeks.

To be honest, for me personally, it won't make a lot of difference. I'm considering washing my car, which I haven't done in probably 6 months or so...

*should have done it earlier of course... But I'm still actually impressed they've done it at all!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 24, 2020, 07:38:07 AM
Hey hey hey, just breath man. I take lots of medicine for my anxiety, I donít like it, but I tried to come off it once before and it wasnít pretty.
Looks at it like this. With less people leaving the house, they need to come up with another source of income. They will turn to what they know how to do, and sell it online. For this, they will need a website.  Her business should be booming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 24, 2020, 07:43:34 AM
I did say I was considering it, not actually washing the car... Baby steps.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 24, 2020, 10:37:47 AM
Decided to try grocery shopping early today, and it was a fascinating experience. Drove past Costco, and there was a line nearly about a half mile long once one considered the twists and curves. No one was staying 6ft apart either, just a mass conga-line of people.

Pulled into the Target parking lot, and another line around the store of folks waiting to get in.

But, drove to the grocery store that shares a parking lot with Target and... it was fine. While the shelves were a bit bare, I was able to get everything on my list. They had eggs, they had toilet paper, they had milk and butter, it was fine. Lines were a little longer than I'm used to, but that was partially due to folks keeping distance between them.

Why are people so weird......
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 24, 2020, 10:44:48 AM
Received a no-contact pizza delivery yesterday.  Pizza guy arranges the boxes on your porch, knocks, then stands back from the porch.

I'm running through my beer supply way too fast.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 24, 2020, 10:55:25 AM
SBE webstore currently offline. Message from Steve Daniels:

Quote
I regret: Because of the shutdown imposed in New York, I am closing the on-line store temporarily. We Will ship all of the orders we have in-house over the next five to seven business days, and I will re-open on-line as soon as possible. Commercial customers having urgent needs, please contact us by e-mail and we will do our best to accommodate. We hope that you all stay healthy and safe. Steve Daniels
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on March 24, 2020, 10:59:10 AM
Decided to try grocery shopping early today, and it was a fascinating experience. Drove past Costco, and there was a line nearly about a half mile long once one considered the twists and curves. No one was staying 6ft apart either, just a mass conga-line of people.

Pulled into the Target parking lot, and another line around the store of folks waiting to get in.

But, drove to the grocery store that shares a parking lot with Target and... it was fine. While the shelves were a bit bare, I was able to get everything on my list. They had eggs, they had toilet paper, they had milk and butter, it was fine. Lines were a little longer than I'm used to, but that was partially due to folks keeping distance between them.

Why are people so weird......
That happened in my hometown. My mother told me of the four grocery stores in town, two were nearly barren, one had an alright amount of stock, and the fourth was fully stocked. Just... why?

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 24, 2020, 11:16:58 AM
Went for my usual bi-weekly grocery trip. Not a single loaf of sliced bread to be found! No bread, no hamburger buns, hot dog buns, rolls, or english muffins for that matter.

Put about 2 seconds of thought into it......

Went to the bakery. Loads upon loads of fresh bread there for the taking. Only needed to be sliced.

People are not only crazy... they are lazy as well. SMH..
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 24, 2020, 11:22:35 AM
In Ontario today a new list of essential businesses allowed to remain open, the usual player like grocers, hardware stores, pharmacies... liquor stores, beer stores, weed stores...

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/the-ontario-governments-list-of-essential-businesses

dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 24, 2020, 01:00:02 PM
In Ontario today a new list of essential businesses allowed to remain open, the usual player like grocers, hardware stores, pharmacies... liquor stores, beer stores, weed stores...

Its running the same here in the US. I'm quite amazed that the liquor and weed shops are considered "essential." Then, I remember how much in TAXES are collected from these and it all becomes clear  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 24, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
In Ontario today a new list of essential businesses allowed to remain open, the usual player like grocers, hardware stores, pharmacies... liquor stores, beer stores, weed stores...

Its running the same here in the US. I'm quite amazed that the liquor and weed shops are considered "essential." Then, I remember how much in TAXES are collected from these and it all becomes clear  ::)

Yup, my thoughts exactly.
dave

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on March 24, 2020, 02:45:20 PM
Grocery stores are starting to get things back on the shelves. Unless I just picked a good time to stop by. They had paper products, cleaning products, meats, canned goods, etc... in short supply. Better than nothing like last week.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 24, 2020, 04:16:50 PM
The realities of being quarantined are setting in. It's not that bad actually, could do with a little more to keep me busy. I spent 7 out of the last 10 years as a homemaker basically so I've got that, but with my wife home to it feels like there isn't much to do.

Worst thing is when we left I didn't have room or time to bring any of my guitars, or any projects to work on for that mater.

Thinking about doing an online class. I know that a lot of you guys are into the IT world. I've done some intro to CS classes, using python.

Before this all got rolling I had been planning on finding something that would allow me to work from home, probably part time, maybe full time, but would have a little flexibility because the kids are my main job.

Anybody on here have a suggestion about where to go with this? I have a background in math, it comes pretty easy to me. Brain works in methodical logical ways. I've heard front-end developer, web-design, and a few other suggestions. just can't decided where to go next.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on March 24, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
The realities of being quarantined are setting in. It's not that bad actually, could do with a little more to keep me busy. I spent 7 out of the last 10 years as a homemaker basically so I've got that, but with my wife home to it feels like there isn't much to do.

Worst thing is when we left I didn't have room or time to bring any of my guitars, or any projects to work on for that mater.

Thinking about doing an online class. I know that a lot of you guys are into the IT world. I've done some intro to CS classes, using python.

Before this all got rolling I had been planning on finding something that would allow me to work from home, probably part time, maybe full time, but would have a little flexibility because the kids are my main job.

Anybody on here have a suggestion about where to go with this? I have a background in math, it comes pretty easy to me. Brain works in methodical logical ways. I've heard front-end developer, web-design, and a few other suggestions. just can't decided where to go next.

If you're interested in that route, HumbleBundle has several coding-oriented things up at the moment:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/software-development-oreilly-books
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/coding-starter-kit-no-starch-press-books
https://www.humblebundle.com/software/learn-to-code-bundle
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 25, 2020, 01:05:56 AM
In Ontario today a new list of essential businesses allowed to remain open, the usual player like grocers, hardware stores, pharmacies... liquor stores, beer stores, weed stores...

Liquor stores are considered non-essential here in NZ and have to close. Supermarkets will sell their current stocks of beer and wine, and then when they run out, they've run out. I'm told there were serious queues at the bottle shops for RTDs and as much beer as people could fit into their cars while they could get it. The liquor wholesalers are closing as well.

I'm not worried. I have a cupboard full of homebrew pale ale and stout.

I'll admit to getting a bottle of bourbon and of scotch before we hit Code 4, though. People are weird... they'll drink beer until they can't hold onto the ground, but whisky? Wow, you better be careful with that!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on March 25, 2020, 08:25:16 PM
Thinking about doing an online class. I know that a lot of you guys are into the IT world. I've done some intro to CS classes, using python.

I have a background in math, it comes pretty easy to me.

IMO if you have a background in math, just doing web design is a bit of a waste.

Check out Andrew Ng's Machine Learning class. Get the certificate if you need it for resume purposes. You'll actually understand the math (linear algebra and a little multivariable calc) in the class and the programming is actually useful in real-world applications. Stanford had or has a class for statistical learning that will solve many of the same problems from the stats side, but it's less and less useful these days.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on March 26, 2020, 10:57:32 AM
In Ontario today a new list of essential businesses allowed to remain open, the usual player like grocers, hardware stores, pharmacies... liquor stores, beer stores, weed stores...

Liquor stores are considered non-essential here in NZ and have to close. Supermarkets will sell their current stocks of beer and wine, and then when they run out, they've run out. I'm told there were serious queues at the bottle shops for RTDs and as much beer as people could fit into their cars while they could get it. The liquor wholesalers are closing as well.

I'm not worried. I have a cupboard full of homebrew pale ale and stout.

I'll admit to getting a bottle of bourbon and of scotch before we hit Code 4, though. People are weird... they'll drink beer until they can't hold onto the ground, but whisky? Wow, you better be careful with that!

Strangely, liquor stores are considered essential business here.  Many will deliver as well.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 26, 2020, 11:06:33 AM
Number of spam/junk messages filtered to the spam folder of my email account is way way down.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 26, 2020, 09:57:08 PM
Day 2 of the NZ wide lockdown. Work gave everyone a sheet of paper each to show policemen who pull us up at stupid o'clock in the morning to ask why we aren't locked in our homes.

Went to the supermarket after work to do the week's shopping and, if you didn't know about the Chinavirus, you'd think that Wanganui was the shadiest town in the history of ever. Lots of people with bandannas over their mouth and nose, some with sunglasses, some not, some with hoodies zipped and pulled up to their nose, others with scarves over their faces...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on March 26, 2020, 10:00:29 PM
I'm not going to lie, this situation has me super stressed.



Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 27, 2020, 03:41:10 AM
I'm not going to lie, this situation has me super stressed.
Same.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 27, 2020, 08:00:14 AM
Day 5, dryer belt breaks....dammit. Parts on order. Looks like a pretty easy job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on March 27, 2020, 09:39:42 AM
washer/dryer repair is suspiciously easy ... like I just haven't run across one of those "I need a repair man for this" sort of moments.

So this is the end of week two of wfh for me ... and the beginning of wfh for the rest of the office. boredom has definitely set in

I've noticed "senior hour" at Publix and WalMart is a joke. You're just giving those vultures an hour's head start on their hoarding. I watched more than one of them leave the store, cart full, load the car, then go in for round two ...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 27, 2020, 09:43:34 AM
washer/dryer repair is suspiciously easy ... like I just haven't run across one of those "I need a repair man for this" sort of moments.

So this is the end of week two of wfh for me ... and the beginning of wfh for the rest of the office. boredom has definitely set in

I've noticed "senior hour" at Publix and WalMart is a joke. You're just giving those vultures an hour's head start on their hoarding. I watched more than one of them leave the store, cart full, load the car, then go in for round two ...
I watched a video, looks easy. My biggest concern is / was that they are in a laundry closet and I didnít want to drag them out. Iím a small guy with a bad back from 30+ years of schlepping gear. Turns out I canít take it apart where it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on March 27, 2020, 11:41:15 AM
washer/dryer repair is suspiciously easy ... like I just haven't run across one of those "I need a repair man for this" sort of moments.



My now 30 year old Maytag washer needed the solenoid valve replaced a few years ago. The service man and counter man where i was buying the new part both were "don't ever get rid of that machine". Forty dollars for the part, and going by the stopwatch the machine was back together and ready to roll in under 7 minutes.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 27, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
washer/dryer repair is suspiciously easy ... like I just haven't run across one of those "I need a repair man for this" sort of moments.



My now 30 year old Maytag washer needed the solenoid valve replaced a few years ago. The service man and counter man where i was buying the new part both were "don't ever get rid of that machine". Forty dollars for the part, and going by the stopwatch the machine was back together and ready to roll in under 7 minutes.
dave
No kidding. I bought a set of 25 year old whirlpools last year because they are easy to work on. Got them from a man that refurbished them full time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on March 27, 2020, 01:52:47 PM
I should've taken a picture, but I once fixed our drier by replacing a broken switch with a momentary footswitch.  I got tired of the cheap manufacturer ones and the footswitch had a high enough amperage rating, so in it went.  It was still working perfectly when we moved.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 27, 2020, 03:56:58 PM
I fixed my microwave with Legos last year. Works like a charm
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 27, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
I fixed my microwave with Legos last year
Is that true, or are you joining me in losing your sanity to the pandemic situation?  I'll be mad as a hatter in a month, personally.  :P
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on March 27, 2020, 04:17:53 PM
I fixed my microwave with Legos last year
Is that true, or are you joining me in losing your sanity to the pandemic situation?  I'll be mad as a hatter in a month, personally.  :P
Sorry, I should have added my proof before I posted. I attached a pic. It was the door switch being forced down and making the switch arc so It burned. The Legos were a shim so the switch connector didn't get forced down anymore everytime the door was opened. Either bad design or planned obselecense
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: LaceSensor on March 27, 2020, 04:28:51 PM
I normally have very little against Mr Trump
But honestly, he needs to listen to the people around him. On this subject, he is a complete life noob and is gonna get a lot of people dead.
I saw a legitimate quote where he was questionning the need for 30k ventilators, stating that large hospitals only have about 2....
Most small vet surgeries have a couple for christ sake.

I am on day 15 of lockdown, fortunately I can work from home. My wife who is 35 weeks pregnant is an anaesthetic specialist, and she started her maternity leave 3 weeks ago also and that is probably the biggest blessing. Selfishly her skills are locked away at home; she knows how serious this stuff is and she wants no part of it, especially with our unborn child to consider.

Our biggest concerns right now, other than basic supplies which seem to be improving after a rush bulk buy of idiots, is the fact that half the country (UK/England) doesnt seem to take this seriously enough, and whether I will even be allowed to accompany her in labour  :-\

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on March 27, 2020, 05:21:58 PM
I normally have very little against Mr Trump
But honestly, he needs to listen to the people around him. On this subject, he is a complete life noob and is gonna get a lot of people dead.
I saw a legitimate quote where he was questionning the need for 30k ventilators, stating that large hospitals only have about 2....
Most small vet surgeries have a couple for christ sake.

I am on day 15 of lockdown, fortunately I can work from home. My wife who is 35 weeks pregnant is an anaesthetic specialist, and she started her maternity leave 3 weeks ago also and that is probably the biggest blessing. Selfishly her skills are locked away at home; she knows how serious this stuff is and she wants no part of it, especially with our unborn child to consider.

Our biggest concerns right now, other than basic supplies which seem to be improving after a rush bulk buy of idiots, is the fact that half the country (UK/England) doesnt seem to take this seriously enough, and whether I will even be allowed to accompany her in labour  :-\
Remember in January when he said this was another democrat hoax? Yeah....but thatís enough of that, that LEGO bracket is just genius.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on March 27, 2020, 05:30:48 PM
I should've taken a picture, but I once fixed our drier by replacing a broken switch with a momentary footswitch.  I got tired of the cheap manufacturer ones and the footswitch had a high enough amperage rating, so in it went.  It was still working perfectly when we moved.

That would have made a great build report!  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: juansolo on March 28, 2020, 02:19:37 AM
This seems a good and nerdy video...

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 28, 2020, 08:20:47 AM
I'm going on my first post-apocalypse supply raid today.  Costco.  My list is long.  Beer is a priority.  Might put some TP in my cart in case I have to throw some to distract any zombies.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on March 28, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
I'm going on my first post-apocalypse supply raid today.  Costco.  My list is long.  Beer is a priority.  Might put some TP in my cart in case I have to throw some to distract any zombies.

In the least you might be able to trade your TP for real supplies like... food.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on March 28, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
Back from Costco.  It was a little scary, but mostly ok.  There are definitely some idiots there, like the guy who lifted his surgical mask so he could fit his index finger into his nostril better.  That same guy just a few minutes later lifted his mask to sneeze directly into the palms of his hands.  Lesson of the day: a surgical mask does not always indicate a person who is taking more precautions than necessary.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on March 28, 2020, 03:30:22 PM
Back from Costco.  It was a little scary, but mostly ok.  There are definitely some idiots there, like the guy who lifted his surgical mask so he could fit his index finger into his nostril better.  That same guy just a few minutes later lifted his mask to sneeze directly into the palms of his hands.  Lesson of the day: a surgical mask does not always indicate a person who is taking more precautions than necessary.

I went to Kroger this afternoon. Besides the employees and myself not a single customer was wearing gloves. Kids, too. Everything I brought home got wiped.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 28, 2020, 04:31:28 PM
Yeah we just got take out from a great Vietnamese place.  it was super tasty, but we were joking that it might not have been worth all the hand washing and wiping things down.

I hate to say it but a lot of people are gonna probably have to start dying for people to start taking this things as serious as they need to.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 28, 2020, 04:34:55 PM
I still have that "Bring out yer dead!" skit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail in my head.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on March 28, 2020, 10:13:32 PM
He was right all along:
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 29, 2020, 12:36:51 PM
I went to Kroger this afternoon. Besides the employees and myself not a single customer was wearing gloves. Kids, too. Everything I brought home got wiped.

I saw this yesterday at Lowes. Had to run for a part because my sink sprung a leak. LOTS of parents roaming around with their kids. No one social distancing. Kids just grabbing and touching everything. Parents oblivious.

Bottom line is that parents are finally having to actually parent their kids on a full time basis (no teachers to do it for them) and they are hauling them out of the house to actually do something.

People are stupid!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: LaceSensor on March 29, 2020, 03:18:37 PM


I hate to say it but a lot of people are gonna probably have to start dying for people to start taking this things as serious as they need to.

newsflash, over 30,000 people are already dead
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 29, 2020, 04:16:21 PM


I hate to say it but a lot of people are gonna probably have to start dying for people to start taking this things as serious as they need to.

newsflash, over 30,000 people are already dead

Did not mean to sound insensitive there.  Iím well aware to many people have already died. I was making a point about the states specifically. I think a lot of people will have to die here before people in the states take this as serious as they should.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on March 29, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
My wife is a nurse and put it in a perspective I hadn't thought of.

The news media has kind of scared me silly. I thought that was a tad irresponsible. She reminded me that if they don't scare people nobody is going to take it seriously. Especially in light of mixed messages that the authorities are floating. The media is walking a fine line between getting people's heads in the game and not getting them to panic.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on March 29, 2020, 08:08:41 PM
My wife is a nurse and put it in a perspective I hadn't thought of.

The news media has kind of scared me silly. I thought that was a tad irresponsible. She reminded me that if they don't scare people nobody is going to take it seriously. Especially in light of mixed messages that the authorities are floating. The media is walking a fine line between getting people's heads in the game and not getting them to panic.

Gordo, tell your wife we said thank you. I can not fathom how stressful this must be for her right now.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: cooder on March 29, 2020, 08:40:30 PM
My wife is a nurse and put it in a perspective I hadn't thought of.

The news media has kind of scared me silly. I thought that was a tad irresponsible. She reminded me that if they don't scare people nobody is going to take it seriously. Especially in light of mixed messages that the authorities are floating. The media is walking a fine line between getting people's heads in the game and not getting them to panic.

Gordo, tell your wife we said thank you. I can not fathom how stressful this must be for her right now.

Spot on. My wife is lab scientist working in microbiology at the Nelson Hospital lab. One of the many eyes of the storm. They have split the staff now in two separate teams which don't even see each other. After every shift the lab is disinfected for the next team. They enter the hospital from separate entrances.
So if one team goes 'down' the other is at least still able to work... fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on March 29, 2020, 09:28:28 PM
My wife is a nurse and put it in a perspective I hadn't thought of.

The news media has kind of scared me silly. I thought that was a tad irresponsible. She reminded me that if they don't scare people nobody is going to take it seriously. Especially in light of mixed messages that the authorities are floating. The media is walking a fine line between getting people's heads in the game and not getting them to panic.

Reposting this from earlier:

Public health in outbreaks/epidemics is always tough. There's always a concern of balancing public information but avoiding panic. Also, ensuring the proportionality of the response is an incredibly difficult task. If the response is inadequate, public health systems and leadership failed to address a threat; if it works or the threat proves to be less serious than that for which the response was designed, they failed by going too far. Both can damage public trust in public health systems. In the moment, no one has the benefit of hindsight. Also, the best outcome(s) with public health interventions and programs are seen by most people as just everyday life. It is difficult to express in times like this that measures are constantly running behind the scenes to ensure health and safety for populations.

"Taking things seriously" is the liminal space between indifference and panic with epidemics or outbreaks. I think that the callous or flippant comparisons to the flu demonstrate this. The flu is an annual epidemic that has a considerable disease burden, incidence, and mortality. COVID-19 being minimized as 'just a flu' was the indifference stage. I think we're now in place where many take it seriously, but substantial numbers are either indifferent or panicking. Official USG communications have been inconsistent and generally poor. I'd suggest getting information from state/local authorities and health authorities (i.e., CDC, NIH, WHO) rather than having the media report it. The primary information is available and contains information without the added spin.

The media are not the public alert system meant to deliver this information, nor are they trained to be able to communicate the information correctly and clearly. A simple re-wording of an answer given during a Q and A session after a briefing can easily change the meaning of a statement. There are official channels and public information is a primary responsibility of public health organizations and institutions.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on March 29, 2020, 09:36:02 PM
Every government is in a cleft stick, as far as the worldwide lockdowns go.

If the lockdowns work, and the spread of chinavirus is stopped, people will just say, "But nothing happened! What a waste of time!"

If the lockdowns don't work, and everyone gets the kung flu, people will say, "What on earth was the point of that?!"

I had to explain to someone at work that part of the reason for the lockdown was to spread infections over time, so that the health system was not overloaded.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dawson on March 29, 2020, 10:21:52 PM
I took advantage of an opportunity to have physical contact today. It felt amazing.
(https://i.imgur.com/ihzmv7Hl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 02, 2020, 03:18:07 PM
I'm officially losing my mind, and not in a joking way.  I haven't been the most efficient at work (ok, I've been one of the least efficient in my unit) before this pandemic, due to a lovely trio of adhd, depression, and anxiety, but I've been able to scrape by and even earn bonuses at the end of the year.  Now that I am stuck at home without most of my work resources (a printer, two large monitors, a quiet office, a desk where I could arrange papers containing the most pertinent information for the stuff I was presently working on without having to clean it up nightly), my productivity has dropped to pretty much 0% with no real hope of recovery.  My boss emailed me about this today, and I actually had a panic attack, my whole body becoming instantly drenched with sweat and shaking.  This really really sucks.  (To answer the most important mental health question: no, there is no threat of imminent harm to myself or others.)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on April 02, 2020, 03:48:58 PM
I'm officially losing my mind, and not in a joking way.  I haven't been the most efficient at work (ok, I've been one of the least efficient in my unit) before this pandemic, due to a lovely trio of adhd, depression, and anxiety, but I've been able to scrape by and even earn bonuses at the end of the year.  Now that I am stuck at home without most of my work resources (a printer, two large monitors, a quiet office, a desk where I could arrange papers containing the most pertinent information for the stuff I was presently working on without having to clean it up nightly), my productivity has dropped to pretty much 0% with no real hope of recovery.  My boss emailed me about this today, and I actually had a panic attack, my whole body becoming instantly drenched with sweat and shaking.  This really really sucks.  (To answer the most important mental health question: no, there is no threat of imminent harm to myself or others.)

Need someone to talk to? I am up for an online conversation. Send me an email. jmkpcbs@gmail.com

acob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 02, 2020, 04:08:43 PM
I'm officially losing my mind, and not in a joking way.  I haven't been the most efficient at work (ok, I've been one of the least efficient in my unit) before this pandemic, due to a lovely trio of adhd, depression, and anxiety, but I've been able to scrape by and even earn bonuses at the end of the year.  Now that I am stuck at home without most of my work resources (a printer, two large monitors, a quiet office, a desk where I could arrange papers containing the most pertinent information for the stuff I was presently working on without having to clean it up nightly), my productivity has dropped to pretty much 0% with no real hope of recovery.  My boss emailed me about this today, and I actually had a panic attack, my whole body becoming instantly drenched with sweat and shaking.  This really really sucks.  (To answer the most important mental health question: no, there is no threat of imminent harm to myself or others.)

Hang in there man. Remember, it seems like weíre all isolated right now but we will all get through this together. You can absolutely get through this.

You can always order a cheap-o printer from amazon, and if you hit up craigslist or a thrift store you could probably have another monitor for cheap too (but take some choleric wipes). Grab some folders from your kids backpack and use them to organize your papers so you can get them back out easily the next day. Find the things you need to make it work.

Find some way to break up your routine a bit. Do you exercise at all? I speak from experience when I say that it can really help with this type of problem. If nothing else just throw on a pair of shoes, your phone and some headphones and go outside and take a walk. Listen to some good music while you do it. Donít stop until youíve reached 10k steps or so (your phone can count it for you) itíll help, I promise. Believe me a couple days of that will pay off exponentially. Exercise can really help with depression.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: cooder on April 02, 2020, 04:13:08 PM
I'm officially losing my mind, and not in a joking way.  I haven't been the most efficient at work (ok, I've been one of the least efficient in my unit) before this pandemic, due to a lovely trio of adhd, depression, and anxiety, but I've been able to scrape by and even earn bonuses at the end of the year.  Now that I am stuck at home without most of my work resources (a printer, two large monitors, a quiet office, a desk where I could arrange papers containing the most pertinent information for the stuff I was presently working on without having to clean it up nightly), my productivity has dropped to pretty much 0% with no real hope of recovery.  My boss emailed me about this today, and I actually had a panic attack, my whole body becoming instantly drenched with sweat and shaking.  This really really sucks.  (To answer the most important mental health question: no, there is no threat of imminent harm to myself or others.)

Hang in there man. Remember, it seems like weíre all isolated right now but we will all get through this together. You can absolutely get through this.

You can always order a cheap-o printer from amazon, and if you hit up craigslist or a thrift store you could probably have another monitor for cheap too (but take some choleric wipes). Grab some folders from your kids backpack and use them to organize your papers so you can get them back out easily the next day. Find the things you need to make it work.

Find some way to break up your routine a bit. Do you exercise at all? I speak from experience when I say that it can really help with this type of problem. If nothing else just throw on a pair of shoes, your phone and some headphones and go outside and take a walk. Listen to some good music while you do it. Donít stop until youíve reached 10k steps or so (your phone can count it for you) itíll help, I promise. Believe me a couple days of that will pay off exponentially. Exercise can really help with depression.
Yes that's real tough and I can only agree to Matmosphere's comments of excercise (and walks!) and then also of course good on you for speaking out and reaching out! Do that whereever it feels anywhere near good.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on April 02, 2020, 06:13:43 PM

Need someone to talk to? I am up for an online conversation. Send me an email. jmkpcbs@gmail.com

acob

I'll echo "acob's" comment. If anyone feels themselves in the trough of depression or despair we are here. Don't wanna talk in public? Lotsa ways to communicate in private. You just have to reach out.

I had a bit of a downturn a few days ago myself but came out of it pretty quick, thankfully. Actually, I had two or three days where I just was tired all the time. Could not keep my eyes open, I was taking daytime naps, had no motivation, etc. I thought, "welp, I'm either getting depressed or sick and neither is a good thing right now".

Turns out I accidentally bought decaf at the previous store run. True story. I switched back to regular and felt fine the next day, haha. Point is, sometimes it takes very little to put the rail car back on the tracks.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on April 02, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
I'm officially losing my mind, and not in a joking way.  I haven't been the most efficient at work (ok, I've been one of the least efficient in my unit) before this pandemic, due to a lovely trio of adhd, depression, and anxiety, but I've been able to scrape by and even earn bonuses at the end of the year.  Now that I am stuck at home without most of my work resources (a printer, two large monitors, a quiet office, a desk where I could arrange papers containing the most pertinent information for the stuff I was presently working on without having to clean it up nightly), my productivity has dropped to pretty much 0% with no real hope of recovery.  My boss emailed me about this today, and I actually had a panic attack, my whole body becoming instantly drenched with sweat and shaking.  This really really sucks.  (To answer the most important mental health question: no, there is no threat of imminent harm to myself or others.)

Try to keep your mind on the bright side of the situation. Things change and that's ok. I used to work from an office and saw the value in having all those resources around you, but I've been working from home for about 4 years and I don't think I could ever go back to working in an office. Take a look around and find the perks in the situation. For instance, I play guitar when I'm on mute during calls. I do have a dedicated office (which also happens to be the music room), but I'll sometimes drive somewhere with my laptop and just sit in the car and listen to music while working. I can turn off at any point if I feel like it and don't have to worry about anyone breathing down my neck or trying to see what I'm up to. Working from home is great.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 02, 2020, 07:52:38 PM
One of the reasons I felt free to share what I am going through personally is because I know this community genuinely cares about its members.  So, thank you everyone, for being here and listening.

I just got done writing a long email to my boss, explaining that I was writing it in a panic, so it would be conveying a lot and also not enough to fully explain the situation (I would be absolutely unable to say it over the phone or in person, and saying it imperfectly was better than hoping I could make the problems go away).  I hate the thought of self-medicating with alcohol, but a beer after sending that did actually help. 

I have no idea what will happen next, but I will find order among chaos where it allows itself to be seen.  At the encouragement of my wife, I have occasionally taken some walks outside by myself to get fresh air and sunshine.  We live right next to a cluster of what must be a dozen cemataries.  It is a peaceful place to walk without being near potentially-infected people.  It is not much as far as exercise goes, but as my primary doctor would say, we don't make rules saying certain forms of exercise shouldn't count as exercise.

(I can't think of a clever way to end this post, so I will end with an unpaired parenthesis to let everyone know I'm not finished yet.  ;)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 02, 2020, 11:52:52 PM
Kia kaha, my friend :)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 03, 2020, 09:57:56 AM

Need someone to talk to? I am up for an online conversation. Send me an email. jmkpcbs@gmail.com

acob

I'll echo "acob's" comment. If anyone feels themselves in the trough of depression or despair we are here. Don't wanna talk in public? Lotsa ways to communicate in private. You just have to reach out.

I had a bit of a downturn a few days ago myself but came out of it pretty quick, thankfully. Actually, I had two or three days where I just was tired all the time. Could not keep my eyes open, I was taking daytime naps, had no motivation, etc. I thought, "welp, I'm either getting depressed or sick and neither is a good thing right now".

Turns out I accidentally bought decaf at the previous store run. True story. I switched back to regular and felt fine the next day, haha. Point is, sometimes it takes very little to put the rail car back on the tracks.
Thatís tragically hilarious man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on April 03, 2020, 11:07:43 AM
Hang in there, EBK.  Things are going to be bad for a few more months but it's going to get better.  My wife and I have both commented on how working from home is about twice as hard and stressful then going to the office.  At the office, if I'm there, the boss feels satisfied that things are getting done, even if I spent most of the morning posting a build report on the forum  ::).   At home if I don't produce, there's no covering that up.   Add to that the distractions of kids and less than ideal work space....it's rough.
I use to-do lists to keep me focused.  It's silly, but it works for me.  I usually make a fresh list on Friday and I break bigger jobs into smaller steps. Crossing out things on the list is my own OCD reward and it helps motivate me. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 03, 2020, 12:14:18 PM
Hang in there, EBK.  Things are going to be bad for a few more months but it's going to get better.  My wife and I have both commented on how working from home is about twice as hard and stressful then going to the office.  At the office, if I'm there, the boss feels satisfied that things are getting done, even if I spent most of the morning posting a build report on the forum  ::).   At home if I don't produce, there's no covering that up.   Add to that the distractions of kids and less than ideal work space....it's rough.
I use to-do lists to keep me focused.  It's silly, but it works for me.  I usually make a fresh list on Friday and I break bigger jobs into smaller steps. Crossing out things on the list is my own OCD reward and it helps motivate me.

I second to do list. Iíve spent many a year stay at home parent. I get everything I need to done but if thereís a lot to do I start making list and it helps me knock out stuff way faster.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 03, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
I feel sorry for the cutting room, at work. They'd only just gotten to the point where they could keep up with the slaughterboard, meaning they might possibly  come off constant overtime... and then chinavirus hit, most of their manning got shot to hell, and they're back to working six days a week to keep up with us working five.

It's actually worse for them now... while they're working eight hour saturdays, all their mates are watching netflix and playing xbox all week, during lockdown.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on April 03, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
I haven't left my house in 22 days. Now they're saying the peak in the county where I work is expected to be at the end of the month. Although I'm glad that my household was pretty well-prepared, this situation grates on me some days more than others.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 03, 2020, 11:39:05 PM
Cheer up, Harry, I'm hearing that one lab at least has a very promising lead on a vaccine -- successful tests on lab rats, and they are moving into human trials now. Plus, of course, there are the trials on drugs to ameliorate existing cases.

That's a big part of the lockdown -- buying time for the scientists and doctors to find these things.

And, I think, if the anti-vaxxer crowd comes out in future, they're likely to get a punch in the nose. My granny had TB as a child, and had reduced lung capacity for the rest of her life as a result. I have no time for idiots like that.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: LaceSensor on April 04, 2020, 03:24:45 PM
the anti-vaxxer crowd

Live demo going on worldwide for them right now....
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on April 04, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Here, Ontario, their talking perhaps  three waves altogether and another 18 -24 months.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 04, 2020, 06:40:58 PM
Here, Ontario, their talking perhaps  three waves altogether and another 18 -24 months.
dave

Unless a lot of people really mess some stuff up, there should be a vaccine by then. Though Iím not holding my breath for a reliable vaccine being ready in less than a year or a year and a half. I donít think you want to rush it and get it wrong.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 06, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
My daughter (8 y.o.) was in tears this afternoon after we had a discussion about facemasks.  It finally clicked in her head that we weren't being overly paranoid and making arbitrary rules when I read the guidance from the CDC out loud (we have been cautious about how much she should know, but needed her to not turn her frustration into defiance of safety rules).  She wished the world "could go back to being happy when we didn't have to worry about the virus."  Me too, kiddo.  Me too. Heart breaking.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 06, 2020, 03:43:37 PM
A certain measure of Stoicism is helpful in these times, although I've found that it chiefly comes with age. Emotional outbursts sometimes might make you feel better (although not always), but it's very rare for them to change anything.

Just remind her of the Serenity prayer -- "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on April 11, 2020, 07:12:37 PM
I've noticed people are starting to get lax about COVID-19, mainly because it's kind of "old news" now. But the realities of it's continued impact is very well outlined in this article:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon (https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon)
I know it's taking the sports perspective on all of it, but it brings out some very good points that apply across the board. This thing is not going away any time soon just by staying at home for 14 days.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 13, 2020, 10:47:32 PM
Some employees at work must be getting tired of coming to work, as I'm hearing that some people are sitting in the car with the heater on, and a beanie on their head, so that when the gate guard takes their temperature, it's over 37.5 degrees.

The company, not being entirely stupid, are making anyone who turns up in these circumstances wait five minutes outside the gate (with their hat off), at which point they get re-tested for their temperature.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 14, 2020, 07:43:26 AM
Wow, just wow. Are these full grown adults?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on April 14, 2020, 08:57:53 AM
I can see pulling this kind of crap when you're 7 or 8.  Weird.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on April 14, 2020, 09:00:31 AM
I can see pulling this kind of crap when you're 7 or 8.  Weird.
After spending the last two years in an elementary school, I can say probably 40ish% of 7/8 year olds are better behaved than their parents. At least they apologize when they do the wrong thing.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 14, 2020, 10:07:45 AM
We're talking about jobs where you do the same thing every ten seconds, for eight and a half hours. You don't get MENSA graduates applying.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on April 14, 2020, 10:38:28 AM
I can see pulling this kind of crap when you're 7 or 8.  Weird.
After spending the last two years in an elementary school, I can say probably 40ish% of 7/8 year olds are better behaved than their parents. At least they apologize when they do the wrong thing.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Whereas the parents would never recognize or acknowledge having done the wrong thing.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on April 14, 2020, 11:19:02 AM
We're talking about jobs where you do the same thing every ten seconds, for eight and a half hours. You don't get MENSA graduates applying.

I actually had the opposite happening to me today. Rode the bike from the train station during a drizzle and my forehead was too cold, so he had to get my temperature on my neck, which was warm enough due to my jacket's collar.

I can totally relate to people that are sick of their jobs being stuck in a boring routine (no offense meant to anyone). I have only done about 60% home office and have been in the labs the residual time. This is more or less the only time (except for groceries) where I can/should leave my flat and I wouldn't miss it. I am very busy during the days on site getting my mental and physical exercise (the latter one to a minimal extent at least).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 14, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
We're talking about jobs where you do the same thing every ten seconds, for eight and a half hours. You don't get MENSA graduates applying.
Ah, right. Itís a job you end up with, not one you try to get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 14, 2020, 03:13:35 PM
As a seasoned pandemic supply raid specialist (two Costco runs is enough for that title, according to me;  too many runs and you are doing it wrong), I made up a safety rhyme to help my wife remember the important stuff while giving her the general procedure for her first outing:

I touched my face,
Oh me, oh my!
I touched my face,
I'm going to die.

 ;D

Costco is great in that they have a giant walk-in fridge for produce.  Masks are warm, and you can't exactly wipe sweat off yourself safely (I sweat a lot when I am anxious, which is all of the time, unfortunately  ::)).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on April 14, 2020, 04:28:36 PM

I touched my face,
Oh me, oh my!
I touched my face,
I'm going to die.

 ;D


For some reason, my brain warped that into "I touch myself" by the Divinyls. 

I don't know
'bout anybody else
when I think of COVID
I touch my face...


Now I'm going to have that on loop in my head all day.  :P
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 14, 2020, 06:08:48 PM

I touched my face,
Oh me, oh my!
I touched my face,
I'm going to die.

 ;D


For some reason, my brain warped that into "I touch myself" by the Divinyls. 

I don't know
'bout anybody else
when I think of COVID
I touch my face...


Now I'm going to have that on loop in my head all day.  :P
Me too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 14, 2020, 06:21:23 PM

I touched my face,
Oh me, oh my!
I touched my face,
I'm going to die.

 ;D


For some reason, my brain warped that into "I touch myself" by the Divinyls. 

I don't know
'bout anybody else
when I think of COVID
I touch my face...


Now I'm going to have that on loop in my head all day.  :P
Me too.
This is how viruses mutate and spread.   :P
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on April 14, 2020, 07:30:33 PM
And for some reason, my apartment complex decided to inform us they would be coming into our apartments for termite inspections.

....is it really the time for this?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 16, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
I wish the virus only infected idiots.

"Hey, let's gather a bunch of people together and breathe excessively on each other while we shout about being forced to care about our health and the health of others."
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200416123156-01-coronavirus-protest-ohio-0413-large-169.jpg)

WTF
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 17, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
The long term, knock-on effects are going to be interesting, once the chinavirus is under control.

I'm meaning things like how some cultures, who usually hug and kiss as a greeting between friends, are now being strongly encouraged (by each other!) not to touch, and to maintain distance.

Things like how people randomly travelling all over the globe are going to encounter more roadblocks, of the vaccine and medical kind.

Re-shoring is another word I've been hearing, as governments all over are finding that once you've moved manufacture offshore, it's a devil of a job to get a lot of stuff in a hurry when the global shipping system has a bad case of the hiccups.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 18, 2020, 08:43:56 AM
So here's a fun project my family did this morning.  It introduced my kids to the concept of smuggling!   ;D

My wife is on her way to drop off a care package for her aunt who lives in a retirement community.  Inside the box are two packages of protective masks. 

There is a non-zero chance the box will be opened by someone before it reaches her aunt, so we decided to hide the masks so someone doesn't take them (crimes of opportunity in senior communities...).  How did we hide them?  By carefully opening the ends of two tissue boxes and slipping the masks underneath the last tissues and gluing the boxes shut again.  But, wouldn't boxes of tissues also be tempting targets for someone looking for something COVID-valuable?  We addressed that by having our kids personalize the boxes like greeting cards to make them less tempting (maybe).

(https://i.imgur.com/v6PUprrl.jpg)

All of this was probably completely unnecessary, but it was kind of fun to pretend anyway.   ;)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 18, 2020, 09:13:10 AM
So here's a fun project my family did this morning.  It introduced my kids to the concept of smuggling!   ;D

My wife is on her way to drop off a care package for her aunt who lives in a retirement community.  Inside the box are two packages of protective masks. 

There is a non-zero chance the box will be opened by someone before it reaches her aunt, so we decided to hide the masks so someone doesn't take them (crimes of opportunity in senior communities...).  How did we hide them?  By carefully opening the ends of two tissue boxes and slipping the masks underneath the last tissues and gluing the boxes shut again.  But, wouldn't boxes of tissues also be tempting targets for someone looking for something COVID-valuable?  We addressed that by having our kids personalize the boxes like greeting cards to make them less tempting (maybe).

(https://i.imgur.com/v6PUprrl.jpg)

All of this was probably completely unnecessary, but it was kind of fun to pretend anyway.   ;)

Great idea, but you know you have to start calling the family car The Falcon now, right?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 20, 2020, 10:01:50 AM
I just drafted up a long rant about other people.  Now that I've written it and read it over, I feel only slightly better, and I've decided to replace the details of it with a single innocuous (and entirely unrelated) word:

CAULIFLOWER

That is all.  Thanks.  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 20, 2020, 12:37:53 PM
Zimbabwe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on April 20, 2020, 12:43:09 PM
Irradiated!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on April 20, 2020, 01:03:41 PM
Cucumber Wire Boat
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on April 20, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
Cucumber Wire Boat
Hotdog Lozenge.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 29, 2020, 09:09:21 AM
I remember back in the before time, in the long long ago, when I was worried about when the first positive COVID-19 case would appear in my city.  There have now been 653 cases, with 20 deaths here.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on April 29, 2020, 09:14:36 AM
I remember back in the before time, in the long long ago, when I was worried about when the first positive COVID-19 case would appear in my city.  There have now been 653 cases, with 20 deaths here.

I've been keeping track with this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

My state is #2, baby! Wooooo!!

Seriously, though, it's pretty crazy.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 29, 2020, 09:22:02 AM
The curve flattening seems to be effective so far.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on April 29, 2020, 11:13:22 AM
The curve flattening seems to be effective so far.

it actually is. Austria - after being the major European infection center (tourist + greedy and stupid tourism owners = spread throughout Europe) - has taken steps before others have done and we have been doing quite well with it. Luckily, our health system never was at maximum capacity and numbers are going down. starting may 1st, the lockdown restrictions (you were basically limited to work, shopping, some forms of sport,...) are lifted. You still need to keep distance and wear annoyingly unnecessary facemasks (according to WHO those are not really too helpful; obviously also not bad...) when shopping or using public transport and gatherings are limited to 10 people.
larger stores and restaurants are allowed to reopen in stages and with limitations.

So far, I think, we were lucky in getting this thing "under control" and preventing the worst. As far as I have read, Austria will be a guinea pig to other European stages to observe how things play out after these next steps.

Stay safe everyone and all the best!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on April 29, 2020, 01:21:39 PM
I remember back in the before time, in the long long ago, when I was worried about when the first positive COVID-19 case would appear in my city.  There have now been 653 cases, with 20 deaths here.

I've been keeping track with this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

My state is #2, baby! Wooooo!!

Seriously, though, it's pretty crazy.

Utah's and Nebraska's numbers look super sketchy to me. Over 3,000 active cases but only 45/55 deaths would mean their mortality rate from COVID-19 is almost an order of magnitude lower than everyone else's.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 29, 2020, 02:23:26 PM


I remember back in the before time, in the long long ago, when I was worried about when the first positive COVID-19 case would appear in my city.  There have now been 653 cases, with 20 deaths here.

I've been keeping track with this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

My state is #2, baby! Wooooo!!

Seriously, though, it's pretty crazy.

Utah's and Nebraska's numbers look super sketchy to me. Over 3,000 active cases but only 45/55 deaths would mean their mortality rate from COVID-19 is almost an order of magnitude lower than everyone else's.

Thatís strange but I suppose it isnít outside the realm of possibility if they have been effective in keeping their older population safe, and for some reason there has been an outbreak among younger people. My suspicion is that either way those numbers will unfortunately normalize to what weíve seen everywhere else within the coming weeks or months.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on April 29, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
I can see why Georgia is lifting the lockdown. They have some serious catching up to do.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on April 29, 2020, 03:23:49 PM
I remember back in the before time, in the long long ago, when I was worried about when the first positive COVID-19 case would appear in my city.  There have now been 653 cases, with 20 deaths here.

I've been keeping track with this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

My state is #2, baby! Wooooo!!

Seriously, though, it's pretty crazy.

Utah's and Nebraska's numbers look super sketchy to me. Over 3,000 active cases but only 45/55 deaths would mean their mortality rate from COVID-19 is almost an order of magnitude lower than everyone else's.

It's really difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions from comparisons like this. Test administration, autopsy reporting, case diagnosis, etc. are not uniform across the board. Consider, for example, that fevers have been used as a qualifying symptom to receive a test in many locations. Many of the ICU hospitalizations and deaths attributed to COVID-19 in NYC have been with patients exhibiting low or no fever.[1] The CDC's revised list just added six symptoms to reflect growing understanding of the disease. Hopefully this, and the increased administration of tests, will help form a better picture. But, if cases in these states are not being tested due to restrictive administration guidelines, there may be uncounted infections/deathsóparticularly in patients with underlying risk factors or other co-morbidityóand a seeming over-representation of infections in younger patients or those without complications.

[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765184

There are also problems with the antibody tests that are being rolled out. They're being introduced with little to no regulatory oversight. To pick a low-hanging fruit: the prevalence study in Santa Clara, California suggested a mortality rate of 0.12-0.20%. This figure, extrapolated using the confirmed case fatality rate in NYC, infers that the population of NYC is 12.5M (instead of 8.3M). Since that seems wrong, let's dive deeper into what's going on with the study. There was little to no attempt to recruit a random sample. Additionally, the test had a false positive (type I error) CI of 0.1% to 1.7%. Antibodies were identified in 50 of the 3,330 participants (1.5%). This figure lies within the confidence interval. By releasing pre-print findings, they were able to spread this information far and wide without having their methods double-checked. I'm not entirely sure why people are so fixated on 'proving' a lower mortality rate by saying the case fatality rate is artificially high, but there are a lot of folks out there trying to do just that.

So, the point is, this is a novel disease that we still have much to learn about. There's very little consistency of test administration, monitoring, and surveillance by different governments and other authorities. This all makes comparative analysis (beyond maybe time series within a particular region) rather fraught. And that's certainly cause for concern when wide-sweeping policy decisions are based on these shaky foundations.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on April 29, 2020, 06:11:37 PM
You sort of hit the nail on the head here.  Which is why the media is having such a field day with this.  I'm hardly pro or anti media and realize that you have to keep people engaged but not panicked but there's no real base line to report against.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 29, 2020, 10:39:29 PM
Interesting wrinkle released lately, the air-pollution figures tend to go with a higher mortality rate. Early days for data, though, as has been said.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on April 30, 2020, 07:12:31 AM
The curve flattening seems to be effective so far.

it actually is. Austria - after being the major European infection center (tourist + greedy and stupid tourism owners = spread throughout Europe) - has taken steps before others have done and we have been doing quite well with it. Luckily, our health system never was at maximum capacity and numbers are going down. starting may 1st, the lockdown restrictions (you were basically limited to work, shopping, some forms of sport,...) are lifted. You still need to keep distance and wear annoyingly unnecessary facemasks (according to WHO those are not really too helpful; obviously also not bad...) when shopping or using public transport and gatherings are limited to 10 people.
larger stores and restaurants are allowed to reopen in stages and with limitations.

So far, I think, we were lucky in getting this thing "under control" and preventing the worst. As far as I have read, Austria will be a guinea pig to other European stages to observe how things play out after these next steps.

Stay safe everyone and all the best!

Just curious, I had read an article the other day that was stating Germany lifted their restrictions recently and they were starting to show cases rise again.

You being a fairly close neighbor, any truth to this? Or maybe there are some German members on here that can chime in.

Texas reopens tomorrow for most things. Seems a little early IMO but I understand you have to get things moving again.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on April 30, 2020, 07:35:12 AM
I think that you will see cases rise. People are tired of staying in.  There will be a second wave as predicted, I just hope itís not worse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on April 30, 2020, 08:35:10 AM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on April 30, 2020, 08:52:35 AM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?

The clamoring to reopen the economy in the US is a result of a lot of factors, but regardless of them, it seems that most people clamoring to have everything reopened all fall into two categories: they have not been directly affected (majority), or they are cold hearted and believe the fact that everyone will die someday is a valid reason to not change their daily lives in order to protect others.

Its been really interesting to see how families react when a loved one who went off about the virus being a hoax, or blown out of proportion or whatever. When we have such a large population spread out an incredibly large swath of land, its easy to play this off as a 'them' problem, but as soon as someone they know is gone due to this, it rocks their world. Of course, this also has a reverse affect when a family already believes its a hoax, then a family member survives it...

And, don't forget that a significant portion (not a majority, but significant minority) of those stumping to reopen the economy are internet meme-educated, mouth breathing, political geniuses who won't leave their house because THEY don't have to, but other people need to be getting back to work so the economy can get going again. Imagine arguing for something that puts others at risk when you're not willing to take the risk yourself. Oh, wait, you're telling me that's 98% of modern politicians who stump for war? Hmm, wonder where these people picked it up from... Talk about privilege, ha.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on April 30, 2020, 09:08:33 AM
I have to laugh at this so it doesn't drive me further insane:
My wife has decided that now is a good time to refinance our mortgage.  My first thought?  Let's wait until utter economic collapse when we can refinance for a couple rolls of toilet paper and a live chicken.  I don't have a live chicken, and now, on top of all my very real stress, I have a mortgage broker asking me for documentation and signatures.  I know from past experience that you can never satisfy a mortgage broker with just the documents they ask for.  I'm sure it will eventually come down to me needing to give them documents showing my COVID-19-negative status and proof of my life insurance coverage.
Yay!  First World problems in a post-apocalyptic world!  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on April 30, 2020, 11:09:41 AM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?

From a strictly public health perspective, there is little evidence to support backing off restrictions (in the United States). The result will be that we implemented lax half-measures of containment only to ease back because modest results were noticed.

'Flattening the curve' is a public health concept designed to alter the epidemiologic curve to alleviate the stress on the health system. Avoiding a rapid spike has achieved a plateau of sustained case incidence and mortality. The measures of social-distancing and preventative closures of non-essential scenarios where people would be in sustained, close proximity to large volumes of people outside of their familial network cut down on the creation of new clusters. The health system was not catastrophically overwhelmed and materials for supportive therapy were deployed to increase capacity.

However, we're at a point of sustained incidence and mortality. Most of these efforts have been reactionary and have not included prospective measures. Backing off of the preventative interventions now will make everything that has been done thus far merely a slowing down (which was the point of distancing etc.). In public health practice, what this allows is time to develop solutions while avoiding a collapse of the health systemóit is not intended to be an end unto itself. At a minimum we need to:

- Develop effective treatment beyond supportive treatment to limit in-hospital treatment time and avoid sequelae.
- Deploy robust surveillance programs that provide mechanisms for monitoring and evaluating the prevalence and incidence of the disease. Right now, testing is ad hoc and largely ignores asymptomatic patients. There is really no firm grasp on the true extent of the disease's spread. Since you can't manage what isn't measured, there are a lot of assumptions about how things are without concrete data showing how things actually are.
- Manage expectations as to what 'normal' now means. We cannot nowóor probably everómove to the same life as before. Particularly so without effective treatment, surveillance, or a vaccine. This also has massive psychological impact as people need to be able to readjust to what normal is and be able to adjust their own behavior.

What is necessary to get back to the closest semblance of our previous 'normal' is a viable, effective, and safe vaccine. There isn't conclusive evidence that persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 develop a lasting immune response that would result in immunity (on any timeline). Coronaviruses are rather insidious and do not (generally) cause a strong immune response. Early indications also show that reinfection is certainly possible.

But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on April 30, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?

From a strictly public health perspective, there is little evidence to support backing off restrictions (in the United States). The result will be that we implemented lax half-measures of containment only to ease back because modest results were noticed.

'Flattening the curve' is a public health concept designed to alter the epidemiologic curve to alleviate the stress on the health system. Avoiding a rapid spike has achieved a plateau of sustained case incidence and mortality. The measures of social-distancing and preventative closures of non-essential scenarios where people would be in sustained, close proximity to large volumes of people outside of their familial network cut down on the creation of new clusters. The health system was not catastrophically overwhelmed and materials for supportive therapy were deployed to increase capacity.

However, we're at a point of sustained incidence and mortality. Most of these efforts have been reactionary and have not included prospective measures. Backing off of the preventative interventions now will make everything that has been done thus far merely a slowing down (which was the point of distancing etc.). In public health practice, what this allows is time to develop solutions while avoiding a collapse of the health systemóit is not intended to be an end unto itself. At a minimum we need to:

- Develop effective treatment beyond supportive treatment to limit in-hospital treatment time and avoid sequelae.
- Deploy robust surveillance programs that provide mechanisms for monitoring and evaluating the prevalence and incidence of the disease. Right now, testing is ad hoc and largely ignores asymptomatic patients. There is really no firm grasp on the true extent of the disease's spread. Since you can't manage what isn't measured, there are a lot of assumptions about how things are without concrete data showing how things actually are.
- Manage expectations as to what 'normal' now means. We cannot nowóor probably everómove to the same life as before. Particularly so without effective treatment, surveillance, or a vaccine. This also has massive psychological impact as people need to be able to readjust to what normal is and be able to adjust their own behavior.

What is necessary to get back to the closest semblance of our previous 'normal' is a viable, effective, and safe vaccine. There isn't conclusive evidence that persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 develop a lasting immune response that would result in immunity (on any timeline). Coronaviruses are rather insidious and do not (generally) cause a strong immune response. Early indications also show that reinfection is certainly possible.

But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.

In the long term, does some herd immunity compensate for the initial distancing we've needed for this initial wave?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on April 30, 2020, 11:37:04 AM


In the long term, does some herd immunity compensate for the initial distancing we've needed for this initial wave?

Has it even been established there is immunity after surviving infection, don't think so, what goes around just keeps coming around.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on April 30, 2020, 11:40:04 AM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?

From a strictly public health perspective, there is little evidence to support backing off restrictions (in the United States). The result will be that we implemented lax half-measures of containment only to ease back because modest results were noticed.

'Flattening the curve' is a public health concept designed to alter the epidemiologic curve to alleviate the stress on the health system. Avoiding a rapid spike has achieved a plateau of sustained case incidence and mortality. The measures of social-distancing and preventative closures of non-essential scenarios where people would be in sustained, close proximity to large volumes of people outside of their familial network cut down on the creation of new clusters. The health system was not catastrophically overwhelmed and materials for supportive therapy were deployed to increase capacity.

However, we're at a point of sustained incidence and mortality. Most of these efforts have been reactionary and have not included prospective measures. Backing off of the preventative interventions now will make everything that has been done thus far merely a slowing down (which was the point of distancing etc.). In public health practice, what this allows is time to develop solutions while avoiding a collapse of the health systemóit is not intended to be an end unto itself. At a minimum we need to:

- Develop effective treatment beyond supportive treatment to limit in-hospital treatment time and avoid sequelae.
- Deploy robust surveillance programs that provide mechanisms for monitoring and evaluating the prevalence and incidence of the disease. Right now, testing is ad hoc and largely ignores asymptomatic patients. There is really no firm grasp on the true extent of the disease's spread. Since you can't manage what isn't measured, there are a lot of assumptions about how things are without concrete data showing how things actually are.
- Manage expectations as to what 'normal' now means. We cannot nowóor probably everómove to the same life as before. Particularly so without effective treatment, surveillance, or a vaccine. This also has massive psychological impact as people need to be able to readjust to what normal is and be able to adjust their own behavior.

What is necessary to get back to the closest semblance of our previous 'normal' is a viable, effective, and safe vaccine. There isn't conclusive evidence that persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 develop a lasting immune response that would result in immunity (on any timeline). Coronaviruses are rather insidious and do not (generally) cause a strong immune response. Early indications also show that reinfection is certainly possible.

But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.
Very eloquently spoken and informative, thank you sir. I defer to this man from here on out

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on April 30, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
In the long term, does some herd immunity compensate for the initial distancing we've needed for this initial wave?

I should clarify: When I said that coronaviruses do not generally impart strong adaptive immunological responses, I meant that with SARS and MERS the indications are that the adapted response lasts a period of years rather than a lifetime. For the CoVs that cause common colds, the pathogenesis is less extreme and may elicit a weaker response. Hence, why people get the same non-rhinovirus or -adenovirus CoV common cold infection multiple times in their lifetime. NOTE: there are many types of the viruses that cause the common coldóeven though an immune response to one may last years, or decades, you are still susceptible to the many others that cause it because they are different enough (from your immune system's point of view).

If I understand your question, you're asking if those that have antibodies will offset some of the relaxation of social-distancing because they won't be a risk of transmission? If that's it, I can't fully answer the question about herd immunity because there is so much that isn't known. We know that antibodies are present in those that have had an adaptive immune response, however, we don't know what the relationship between the antibody titer and what that means for efficacy of response or timeframe is. Also, and very importantly, we don't know if someone that has antibodies is infectious or not. That second point is very important because if someone is effectively immune, but shedding infectious viral material, they become an asymptomatic carrier.

Herd immunity is a concept that related to the effective replication rate of a pathogen. The percentage of a population that needs to be immune (either from vaccination or adaptive immune response) is a function of replication value of the pathogen. The idea is to get it so that the infection cannot spread. Different pathogens have different requirements based on their transmissibility and infectiousness.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on April 30, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
Yeah, weíve kept cases to a manageable level but 2000 deaths a day is still way to much.

Maybe someone on here can help me understand why everyone thinks itís okay to start backing off restrictions. I donít feel like anything has really changed, so if we back off things what will keep this from all blowing up again?

From a strictly public health perspective, there is little evidence to support backing off restrictions (in the United States). The result will be that we implemented lax half-measures of containment only to ease back because modest results were noticed.

'Flattening the curve' is a public health concept designed to alter the epidemiologic curve to alleviate the stress on the health system. Avoiding a rapid spike has achieved a plateau of sustained case incidence and mortality. The measures of social-distancing and preventative closures of non-essential scenarios where people would be in sustained, close proximity to large volumes of people outside of their familial network cut down on the creation of new clusters. The health system was not catastrophically overwhelmed and materials for supportive therapy were deployed to increase capacity.

However, we're at a point of sustained incidence and mortality. Most of these efforts have been reactionary and have not included prospective measures. Backing off of the preventative interventions now will make everything that has been done thus far merely a slowing down (which was the point of distancing etc.). In public health practice, what this allows is time to develop solutions while avoiding a collapse of the health systemóit is not intended to be an end unto itself. At a minimum we need to:

- Develop effective treatment beyond supportive treatment to limit in-hospital treatment time and avoid sequelae.
- Deploy robust surveillance programs that provide mechanisms for monitoring and evaluating the prevalence and incidence of the disease. Right now, testing is ad hoc and largely ignores asymptomatic patients. There is really no firm grasp on the true extent of the disease's spread. Since you can't manage what isn't measured, there are a lot of assumptions about how things are without concrete data showing how things actually are.
- Manage expectations as to what 'normal' now means. We cannot nowóor probably everómove to the same life as before. Particularly so without effective treatment, surveillance, or a vaccine. This also has massive psychological impact as people need to be able to readjust to what normal is and be able to adjust their own behavior.

What is necessary to get back to the closest semblance of our previous 'normal' is a viable, effective, and safe vaccine. There isn't conclusive evidence that persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 develop a lasting immune response that would result in immunity (on any timeline). Coronaviruses are rather insidious and do not (generally) cause a strong immune response. Early indications also show that reinfection is certainly possible.

But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.

I agree with a lot of what you have said here. However, I'm a little more bullish on the natural immunity point. The CoV-2 infection is controlled in virtually every person infected with CoV-2; that is to say, peak viral titer occurs early and continues to decline until recovery/death. This is not due to latency like happens with retroviruses. Rather, it is almost certainly a consequence of a protective anti-viral response. Even in folks that succumb, they have relative (to themselves earlier in the infection) low viral titers at death, and the death is brought on by edema, clotting, etc. caused by an exuberant immune response that fails to resolve properly. Second, high inoculum size and high peak viral titers definitely correlate with disease severity and mortality. I hope I didn't give that impression in the previous sentences. This is why prophyaxis treatments will likely and Remdesivir already has shown benefit. I'd bet that high viral titer early has a bigger influence on the ability to resolve inflammation than overwhelming the ability to eliminate the virus. Third, in virtually every situation where humans have naturally and fully resolved a viral infection, we have developed some amount of protective memory. Lastly, early evidence suggests that CoV-2 doesn't mutate or shift nearly as much as seasonal flu. This is reassuring from a natural immunity and vaccine perspective. It seems unlikely that we will engage in 'immunity whack-a-mole game', like we do with seasonal flu....This is all roundabout way of saying...Although, it's still open question regarding CoV-2, because well, it's a novel virus, I think it is more likely than not that humans won't be exterminated by SARS-CoV-2. Immunity may not be long-lived and may not be sterilizing, but previous exposure will almost certainly be beneficial upon reexposure. I also think the prospects for a successful vaccine are high, and (eventual) herd immunity higher.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on April 30, 2020, 01:03:39 PM
Just curious, I had read an article the other day that was stating Germany lifted their restrictions recently and they were starting to show cases rise again.

You being a fairly close neighbor, any truth to this? Or maybe there are some German members on here that can chime in.

Texas reopens tomorrow for most things. Seems a little early IMO but I understand you have to get things moving again.

I actually haven't followed. News are all over the place and I never can keep up with which info is from where. Germany is handling it's states separately I think, so not sure.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on April 30, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Just curious, I had read an article the other day that was stating Germany lifted their restrictions recently and they were starting to show cases rise again.

You being a fairly close neighbor, any truth to this? Or maybe there are some German members on here that can chime in.

Texas reopens tomorrow for most things. Seems a little early IMO but I understand you have to get things moving again.

I actually haven't followed. News are all over the place and I never can keep up with which info is from where. Germany is handling it's states separately I think, so not sure.
I spoke to my old partner from Germany at the weekend and she indeed was going back to work starting this week.

There have been some rises there too, yes, although possibly not 'hard' rises. And it is a state issue, not a federal so this doesn't apply everywhere.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on April 30, 2020, 04:59:01 PM
I agree with a lot of what you have said here. However, I'm a little more bullish on the natural immunity point. The CoV-2 infection is controlled in virtually every person infected with CoV-2; that is to say, peak viral titer occurs early and continues to decline until recovery/death. This is not due to latency like happens with retroviruses. Rather, it is almost certainly a consequence of a protective anti-viral response. Even in folks that succumb, they have relative (to themselves earlier in the infection) low viral titers at death, and the death is brought on by edema, clotting, etc. caused by an exuberant immune response that fails to resolve properly. Second, high inoculum size and high peak viral titers definitely correlate with disease severity and mortality. I hope I didn't give that impression in the previous sentences. This is why prophyaxis treatments will likely and Remdesivir already has shown benefit. I'd bet that high viral titer early has a bigger influence on the ability to resolve inflammation than overwhelming the ability to eliminate the virus. Third, in virtually every situation where humans have naturally and fully resolved a viral infection, we have developed some amount of protective memory. Lastly, early evidence suggests that CoV-2 doesn't mutate or shift nearly as much as seasonal flu. This is reassuring from a natural immunity and vaccine perspective. It seems unlikely that we will engage in 'immunity whack-a-mole game', like we do with seasonal flu....This is all roundabout way of saying...Although, it's still open question regarding CoV-2, because well, it's a novel virus, I think it is more likely than not that humans won't be exterminated by SARS-CoV-2. Immunity may not be long-lived and may not be sterilizing, but previous exposure will almost certainly be beneficial upon reexposure. I also think the prospects for a successful vaccine are high, and (eventual) herd immunity higher.

I donít disagree with you regarding acquired immunity in principle; however, from a cautious public health standpoint, Iíd rather have definitive proof and have measurable indicators that can be used for programmatic planning before acting on that information. I think that youíre probably right about adapted immune response, but questions remain on how to test/measure that response and also be sure that those with adapted responses are not shedding infectious material.

Can you show me where youíve seen the titer analysis? I wasnít aware that there was a uniform presentation of viral load with disease progression? Also, I donít think that viral titer has been meaningfully associated with severity of pathogenesis? Remdesivir is an interesting case. Itís been tried with almost all recent viral outbreaks after showing promise in the lab / animal trials (practical application hasnít worked so well). The results so far with compassionate administration and the case/control study do indicate that thereís some level of treatment efficacy. Itís rather modest and far from anything that can be considered a gold standard treatment, though, so I think thereís still much more that needs to be developed. I havenít heard much regarding successful prophylaxis treatments?

I agree with all your points regarding viral mutation and human adaptation to pathogens. That being the case, even with historic speed of vaccine development (aided by a rather stable virus), weíre still quite some time before it would hit the market. Iím concerned that clinical phases may be fast-tracked to the point that we might not end up with the most efficacious/safe vaccine if things are too accelerated. There are things that simply cannot be rushed. Then, we have to deal with scaling production and coordinating administration (not to mention getting people to actually trust in a vaccineówhich seems harder every year).

My concerns come primarily from a perspective of short- to medium-term public health (PH) programming. Until vaccine research and treatment development can catch up, PH interventions are the best thing that we have to limit the burden of disease and the best way to support the efforts of vaccine/treatment development. Because of this, I think the PH interventions outlined aboveóparticularly robust surveillanceóare absolutely necessary before moving forward with relaxing behavioral interventions. However, the PH aims are competing with political and economic demands. Both of which are putting everything on an accelerated timeline.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on April 30, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
In the meantime, Australia is recording only a couple new cases a day in total.  In some states, none.  It'll be interesting to see how we go in terms of relaxing restrictions.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on April 30, 2020, 08:11:58 PM
Can you show me where youíve seen the titer analysis? I wasnít aware that there was a uniform presentation of viral load with disease progression? Also, I donít think that viral titer has been meaningfully associated with severity of pathogenesis? Remdesivir is an interesting case. Itís been tried with almost all recent viral outbreaks after showing promise in the lab / animal trials (practical application hasnít worked so well). The results so far with compassionate administration and the case/control study do indicate that thereís some level of treatment efficacy. Itís rather modest and far from anything that can be considered a gold standard treatment, though, so I think thereís still much more that needs to be developed. I havenít heard much regarding successful prophylaxis treatments?

I think we're on the same page with everything else you wrote, so I'll limit my response to this paragraph. Both viral titer decline and correlation with disease severity have been reported in the literature. Here are a few examples that I quickly found. There are other studies out there I'm sure, too....
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30232-2/fulltext
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1164/rccm.202003-0524LE

Remdesivir is not the "Lazarus Treatment" people are hoping for, but it's definitely encouraging. The thing that I find most exciting about Remdesivir is that it was the first randomized, placebo controlled clinical trial to be completed for COVID-19, and it showed significant benefit. 30% reduction in time to recovery. 1000+ patients. Multicenter study. That's an accomplishment.

I know of at least 2 post-exposure prophylaxis studies involving hydroxychloroquine. Based on the putative mechanism of HCQ from model testing (interfere with viral entry), it seems more likely to have benefit as a prophylaxis than as a treatment for hospitalized COVID-19 patients. I'm not going to hide the fact that I think Trump is dangerously incompetent, and Trump pushing HCQ was reckless. However, all the shitty observational or retrospective HCQ studies that the media has latched onto are nearly as damaging to the credibility of science and public health. It will be great to see how HCQ performs in a legitimate trial.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on April 30, 2020, 10:54:24 PM
But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.

This. This, this, this. It all comes back to the same old problem -- who is going to pay for this?

If everyone is staying home under government lockdown (and that's another issue for some people -- when the government gets power, it almost never relinquishes it), then they aren't earning money, and are therefore not paying taxes into the gov't coffers, which in turn means, given the width and breadth of the lockdown, that the budget is going steeply red.

Describing lifting the lockdown as "economy vs lives" is too simplistic. It's "lives vs lives".

Let's say that we keep all food production workers going, so that people don't starve to death. How are their products going to be bought? With gov't stimulus checks? What happens when inflation due to rampant money-printing means that, given enough time, the value of the dollar has crashed? The government nationalizes the food market entirely?

I... think it was quantum physics, but I like a quote I heard once... "For every complex, hard to answer problem, there is an answer that is simple, straightforward, and wrong."
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on May 01, 2020, 06:17:26 AM
But, the world doesn't operate according to public health programming. Economics and politics run the show. The demands of those are what is motivating us to relax the current guidelines and policies. The most likely result from doing this, though, is that all of the efforts thus far will have just put us in a limbo of sustained incidence that will give way to a larger spike. At that point, we will have to do the whole exercise over again. Countries with large case incidence that put much stronger interventions in place saw greater reduction. When the extreme measures were relaxed, they still kept basic distancing practices in place.

This. This, this, this. It all comes back to the same old problem -- who is going to pay for this?

If everyone is staying home under government lockdown (and that's another issue for some people -- when the government gets power, it almost never relinquishes it), then they aren't earning money, and are therefore not paying taxes into the gov't coffers, which in turn means, given the width and breadth of the lockdown, that the budget is going steeply red.

Describing lifting the lockdown as "economy vs lives" is too simplistic. It's "lives vs lives".

Let's say that we keep all food production workers going, so that people don't starve to death. How are their products going to be bought? With gov't stimulus checks? What happens when inflation due to rampant money-printing means that, given enough time, the value of the dollar has crashed? The government nationalizes the food market entirely?

I... think it was quantum physics, but I like a quote I heard once... "For every complex, hard to answer problem, there is an answer that is simple, straightforward, and wrong."

Agreed. There are no easy solutions here and certainly no solution that pleases everyone. The economy will open, but slowly. Public health tracing/interventions and experimental therapies will do their best to fill the gap until herd immunity/vaccines arise. In the meantime, the virus will ebb and flow (or spike and drop), and an uncomfortable amount of people will die. Even those that are fortunate enough to not have their health affected by COVID-19 will be impacted financially.

Maybe the best way to look at this is by acknowledging the unprecedented stretch of health and economic prosperity we've had for the last 50+ years.  Be thankful for it and recognize that we have work to do to get it back on track.
*NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone's life is equally great. I'm saying that regardless of what segment of society you would've been part of >50 years ago, life is almost certainly better today in that same segment of society.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on May 01, 2020, 06:55:32 AM
I don't know that this is hurting everyone the way a turndown caused by a weak economy does. This seems focused on low income workers. Only one person that I personally know has been laid off. Maybe I just have lucky friends, but most people are working from home, many say they are working a lot more than usual at the moment. I'm hoping that this means the middle class stays pretty strong during all of this, which will help come out of it a little more gracefully, but who knows.


Maybe the best way to look at this is by acknowledging the unprecedented stretch of health and economic prosperity we've had for the last 50+ years.  Be thankful for it and recognize that we have work to do to get it back on track.
*NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone's life is equally great. I'm saying that regardless of what segment of society you would've been part of >50 years ago, life is almost certainly better today in that same segment of society.


I don't know that this if 100% true. The changes in the distribution of wealth over that period would suggest otherwise, or at the very least the gains we have experienced have been heavily weighted towards the top earners.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on May 01, 2020, 08:02:02 AM

Maybe the best way to look at this is by acknowledging the unprecedented stretch of health and economic prosperity we've had for the last 50+ years.  Be thankful for it and recognize that we have work to do to get it back on track.
*NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone's life is equally great. I'm saying that regardless of what segment of society you would've been part of >50 years ago, life is almost certainly better today in that same segment of society.


I don't know that this if 100% true. The changes in the distribution of wealth over that period would suggest otherwise, or at the very least the gains we have experienced have been heavily weighted towards the top earners.

Generalizations are never 100% true ;) I don't disagree that income inequality has grown, but that doesn't necessarily mean peoples lives have gotten worse over the last 50 years. Could it be better for low and middle income earners? Of course. My point is that if you view life now from a historic perspective, it is (in general) prosperous and healthy.

It's perfectly natural to demand more. I get that. That's how progress happens. However, people can't expect progress without also accepting setbacks. I think now is the time that we should acknowledge life had been pretty good for a while, is not as good now, and there is adversity that needs to be dealt with. That means compromising between two impossible situations- strangle the economy or mass death. As others have eloquently pointed out, this is a political issue now. The scientists, ethicists, and economists have voiced their concerns. Hopefully, politicians heed that advice and make the best decision for their constituents. I'm much less bullish on that last point than I am on the issue of CoV-2 immunity. Haha!


Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on May 01, 2020, 08:52:17 AM
*NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone's life is equally great. I'm saying that regardless of what segment of society you would've been part of >50 years ago, life is almost certainly better today in that same segment of society.

I would have to disagree with this.

Look at life 50 years ago. A single-earning family could purchase a reasonable home, afford a car, vacation, raise a family, create a savings, and afford to send their child to the college of their choice.

Today... even dual-income households cannot afford most of that without living paycheck to paycheck.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on May 01, 2020, 10:27:30 AM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on May 01, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.

Thatís scary, hope things stabilize a little at her work.

When I posted earlier I was thinking about asking what kind of impact others are seeing. Thereís always a chance the people I know have just been lucky so far.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: DLW on May 01, 2020, 11:26:00 AM
*NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone's life is equally great. I'm saying that regardless of what segment of society you would've been part of >50 years ago, life is almost certainly better today in that same segment of society.

I would have to disagree with this.

Look at life 50 years ago. A single-earning family could purchase a reasonable home, afford a car, vacation, raise a family, create a savings, and afford to send their child to the college of their choice.

Today... even dual-income households cannot afford most of that without living paycheck to paycheck.

I agree with most of that statement. The college statement is factually incorrect, though. 8-14% of people had a college education in 1970 compared to >35% today. Although owning a car and a house are important, I think there is more to having a good life than that. I'll use the US as an example, because stats are easy to find and I'm familiar with the country. (a) The US has added +10 years to life expectancy since 1950. That's insane. (b) Virtually 100% of our society is literate. (c) High school and college diplomas have been a continuous upward slope for 100+ years. (d) We have more access to information via the internet than could have even been imagined 25 years ago. I'm a scientist. If I had to go to the library and dig through journals for info, it would drain all my enthusiasm for science. (e) Infant mortality has gone for 2.5% to nearly zero....There are hundreds of examples of how life has improved over the past 50+ years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/184272/educational-attainment-of-college-diploma-or-higher-by-gender/
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNIMRTINUSA
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on May 01, 2020, 11:46:35 AM
I agree with most of that statement. The college statement is factually incorrect, though. 8-14% of people had a college education in 1970 compared to >35% today. Although owning a car and a house are important, I think there is more to having a good life than that.

Since this was on-point with the statement that I made, I will address this.

Although more people are college educated now than they were years ago, one has to look at the point I was making about affordability. Sure... a lot more people are college educated. How many of those "more people" are being crushed by student loan debt that was absent years ago?

And, of course home and car ownership are not the most important factors in life however, my point was that living "life" in general is much harder to afford today than it was years ago. Even taking inflation into account, there is almost no comparison to what a single income household can afford today compared to years ago.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on May 01, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.
I hope everything works out for her.  It might ease your mind a bit to look at the unemployment insurance rates in your state.  I got furloughed at the start of the stay at home order in CA.  Lasted a month before my company got a PPP loan.  First time I've ever filed for unemployment, so, I was worried and scared.  It ended up not being much of a hit to my family.  With the extra money the feds are paying on top of the regular state payment coupled with the natural reduced spending of being home most of the time, we got by. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on May 01, 2020, 03:42:25 PM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.
I hope everything works out for her.  It might ease your mind a bit to look at the unemployment insurance rates in your state.  I got furloughed at the start of the stay at home order in CA.  Lasted a month before my company got a PPP loan.  First time I've ever filed for unemployment, so, I was worried and scared.  It ended up not being much of a hit to my family.  With the extra money the feds are paying on top of the regular state payment coupled with the natural reduced spending of being home most of the time, we got by. 

My company is talking about imminent permanent layoffs as well ("rightsizing" is the BS term they are using).  After being on the losing end in the 2008 layoff madness, I am still very much on edge about this one, hoping I don't end up on the same side of that line.  So hopefully in a few weeks I will still have a job, but we will see I guess...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on May 01, 2020, 04:01:10 PM
Right there with you.  All of the small business owners I know, even the "rich" ones, applied for SB loans, were accepted, and then told that there was "no more money".  Then they read that business' like Ruth Chris Steakhouse got $30M.  Even as drastic as this situation is, the truth is that it's big business taking care of big business.  I'm still working, thankfully.  Got laid off after the last downturn, and I can't help but feel that this is a "feeler" for how tight business' on the upside of this can go.  Push the workers as hard as you can and see if the profits are still reasonable.

Welcome to corporate America I guess.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 01, 2020, 04:27:24 PM
I agree with most of that statement. The college statement is factually incorrect, though. 8-14% of people had a college education in 1970 compared to >35% today. Although owning a car and a house are important, I think there is more to having a good life than that.

Since this was on-point with the statement that I made, I will address this.

Although more people are college educated now than they were years ago, one has to look at the point I was making about affordability. Sure... a lot more people are college educated. How many of those "more people" are being crushed by student loan debt that was absent years ago?

And, of course home and car ownership are not the most important factors in life however, my point was that living "life" in general is much harder to afford today than it was years ago. Even taking inflation into account, there is almost no comparison to what a single income household can afford today compared to years ago.

There's been a lot of research on the stagnancy of middle class salaries and the growing inequality of wealth.  I agree with quite a bit of what you've posted.  It is real and a considerable problem. 

But there is also the conspicuous consumerism that leads many households to have a car for every driver, a TV set for every room and often a house that is much larger than what they would've purchased in the 50's.  I am not excluding myself from this in any way, just noting that an increase in spending habits coupled with a decrease in middle class income is a bad combination.

Plus, for a while, folks adjusted to greater buying power from cheap imported goods but still retained relatively high salaries.  Ultimately, in the US, we want to have our cake and eat it too. 

There are quite a few reasons why things are shifting for the middle class.  Certainly the things discussed so far only begin to scratch the surface.  Dan's post about corporate layoffs is yet another frustration about the shift in the relationship between employers and employees.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 01, 2020, 04:28:24 PM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.

That's terrible.  Did they furlough or outright dismiss?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on May 01, 2020, 04:32:22 PM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.

That's terrible.  Did they furlough or outright dismiss?

It's a bit of a bloodbath. Actually 20% lost their jobs today. My wife will be going to a 4 day work week and 20% salary reduction for the rest of the year. We can manage that so we are lucky for now.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 01, 2020, 04:41:36 PM
Wife's company just laid off 10% of staff due to the downturn. She still has a job for now.

That's terrible.  Did they furlough or outright dismiss?

It's a bit of a bloodbath. Actually 20% lost their jobs today. My wife will be going to a 4 day work week and 20% salary reduction for the rest of the year. We can manage that so we are lucky for now.

I'm really sorry to hear that, although it is positive that they will at least let her stay on at 4 days.  Years ago, the company I worked for had a significant downturn and we all took a paycut in order to minimize the necessary cuts.  The more you made, the bigger cut you took.  It wasn't pleasant, but most people kept their jobs.  It allowed us to maintain manpower to compete and regain in the marketplace instead of trying to catch up with a skeleton crew.  I wish more companies gave people the option of going that route.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on May 01, 2020, 04:56:27 PM
I work in IT for a 12,000+ employee international company and they annouced a couple of weeks ago that the most fair way they knew how to handle an "uncertain economic future" was to stop 401k matching contributions and to not do any annual merit increases. I do still have a job and don't expect that to change but you never know...  I don't think this company's industry has been impacted all that much but they did have to cough up a lot of $ all at once in order to send 97% of staff to work from home, so I think it's more that they are taking advantage of the situation in order to recoup some costs.

In 2008 I was working for a 15 person startup type company and they did the same plus I went to half time for a year.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on May 02, 2020, 08:52:18 AM
The "dangers" with doing these layoffs and cuts is when the crisis is over and people are free to go back to normal, the RUSH of needs for consumers and services will explode and these service providers will be undermanned and not ready for it.

The real "bloodbath" will occur when people start to expect the same levels of service and availability there was pre-pandemic.  :o
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on May 02, 2020, 09:37:30 AM


The real "bloodbath" will occur when people start to expect the same levels of service and availability there was pre-pandemic.  :o

Its likely far too optimistic, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if we have to close up for a second, much longer time, the majority of people will stop trying to resort directly back to the previous normal, and start looking to helping each other out, rather than relying on business and government so much. Communities, no matter how big or small, are always strongest when everyone supports each other.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 02, 2020, 12:56:43 PM
The "dangers" with doing these layoffs and cuts is when the crisis is over and people are free to go back to normal, the RUSH of needs for consumers and services will explode and these service providers will be undermanned and not ready for it.

The real "bloodbath" will occur when people start to expect the same levels of service and availability there was pre-pandemic.  :o

There's an even worse potential scenario where consumer spending stays down because people are concerned about the economy and the job recovery is much slower.  But I agree, for necessary goods and services, it's likely going to be rough for a little while.

That's why Furloughing is a preferable approach, IMHO.  Workers generally get to keep their health insurance while furloughed and come back to work when the shelter-in-place orders are rescinded.  And since folks are coming back to their previous jobs, it's generally a much smoother transition to normal business.  Plus, there's nothing that would keep that employee from finding different employment if they so choose.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on May 02, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Sorry to hear about your wife's comany Brian. with the numbers of unemployment we are dealing with it was only a matter of time until someone you know is affected, unfortnately. Good to hear though that you still manage and that she can keep working.

this situation is really the first time I am really glad to work for a big company (approx. 100.000 employees worldwide). No drastic cutbacks so far. Analytics and other support departments had to ressort to doing morning and afternoon shifts in order to reduce amount of people in the room at the same time, but otherwise everything is good. Although some business branches had to take big dips in salses, we have been lucky so far.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on May 02, 2020, 08:42:20 PM
25% cut at my company about a week ago.

I survived this one but I know there will be more coming.



Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on May 05, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
I'm getting furloughed although I don't know when it officially starts yet. I think we'll be fine and I'm looking forward to the break. Maybe I'll catch up on my backlog of pedals, but I also panic bought a ps4 today.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 05, 2020, 05:09:47 PM
I'm getting furloughed although I don't know when it officially starts yet. I think we'll be fine and I'm looking forward to the break. Maybe I'll catch up on my backlog of pedals, but I also panic bought a ps4 today.

Sorry to hear that.  Are they keeping your job for you when things get back to normal?  If I get furloughed but I know I've have a gig to go back to, I think we could survive for a bit.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on May 05, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Yeah that's the difference between getting laid off and furloughed as I understand it. I keep my job. My boss also came up with a plan for me to move to another department in September if mine isn't open again yet.

I'm not on their health insurance anymore but they're paying 100% for furloughed employees, which is nice, and as far as I can tell, I'll get more though unemployment than my normal wages.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: pickdropper on May 05, 2020, 09:16:49 PM
Yeah that's the difference between getting laid off and furloughed as I understand it. I keep my job. My boss also came up with a plan for me to move to another department in September if mine isn't open again yet.

I'm not on their health insurance anymore but they're paying 100% for furloughed employees, which is nice, and as far as I can tell, I'll get more though unemployment than my normal wages.

Yeah, in general, it's more favorable to the employee to be furloughed.  It also tends to be better for employers as they can bring back employees they know that they like when things improve. 

Good luck, I hope everything works out as well as possible.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on May 06, 2020, 12:11:35 PM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on May 06, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)
(https://www.bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Next-Years-School-Pictures.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 06, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)

I haven't been what would be called a 'barber shop' since the early-ish 70's.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on May 07, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/DE67/production/_112053965_gettyimages-1211398264.jpg)
I mean, he's almost identical to some character from something I think I enjoyed watching, but I can't remember.  Thought at first it was Vulcan from the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen, but that's not quite it (too much hair).
(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Baron11.png)

Yes, I am happy that this is the only thing bothering me at the moment.   :P

Edit: This isn't it either (again, the hair):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BB3HdNDZudY/Tf1LjUmfZiI/AAAAAAAAAqk/Hy8vGE47zQM/s1600/this%252520is%252520sparta%255B1%255D.jpg)

Still thinking and searching.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on May 07, 2020, 09:21:06 AM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/DE67/production/_112053965_gettyimages-1211398264.jpg)
I mean, he's almost identical to some character from something I think I enjoyed watching, but I can't remember.  Thought at first it was Vulcan from the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen, but that's not quite it (too much hair).
(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Baron11.png)

Yes, I am happy that this is the only thing bothering me at the moment.   

Edit: This isn't it either (again, the hair):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BB3HdNDZudY/Tf1LjUmfZiI/AAAAAAAAAqk/Hy8vGE47zQM/s1600/this%252520is%252520sparta%255B1%255D.jpg)

Still thinking and searching.
Comedian Brian Posehn?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200507/04774089db831f00ca7dfcb30d3aecde.jpg)

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on May 07, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
That one bothered me too  ;D

I settled on Sig Haig.

(https://i1.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screen-Shot-2019-06-10-at-6.01.25-AM.png?ssl=1)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on May 07, 2020, 09:26:15 AM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)

Last time I got a haircut was probably over 20 years ago. So there!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on May 07, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 

The Thing
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: SirEgno on May 07, 2020, 10:00:49 AM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)

Last time I got a haircut was probably over 20 years ago. So there!
(https://horroredintorni.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ITT.jpg)

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on May 07, 2020, 10:36:42 AM
It looks kinda like one of the pedal guys that makes youtube videos. Maybe dwarfcraft, but I canít remember.

I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about a well known ďprepperĒ, who said he was prepared to sustain his family for years if needed. He was seen, ironically, at a courthouse protest to try and get things opened up.

Iím ready for this!! Iíve been ready for years!! Finally my day has come!!


But open up shit so I can get a haircut dammit!!!!!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on May 07, 2020, 10:46:51 AM
It looks kinda like one of the pedal guys that makes youtube videos. Maybe dwarfcraft, but I canít remember.

I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about a well known ďprepperĒ, who said he was prepared to sustain his family for years if needed. He was seen, ironically, at a courthouse protest to try and get things opened up.

Iím ready for this!! Iíve been ready for years!! Finally my day has come!!


But open up shit so I can get a haircut dammit!!!!!


Yep! Those "preppers" are all good until the house or car bill comes in the mail  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on May 07, 2020, 10:55:22 AM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 

The Thing
That crossed my mind as well.  I had an inkling that maybe it was a character possessed by an alien or monster that I was remembering.  Still I swear the character I was remembering looked even more identical to this protester, down to the same shouting face.

I also thought briefly of Chris Elliott, but I don't think it was a comedic character.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/56/4b/ca564bede86023cdb91ab5b7dae01c4a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on May 07, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 

The Thing
That crossed my mind as well.  I had an inkling that maybe it was a character possessed by an alien or monster that I was remembering.  Still I swear the character I was remembering looked even more identical to this protester, down to the same shouting face.

I also thought briefly of Chris Elliott, but I don't think it was a comedic character.
Sam Kinison
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on May 07, 2020, 12:45:38 PM
Can someone please tell me which movie/television character this protester reminds me of? 
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/DE67/production/_112053965_gettyimages-1211398264.jpg)
I mean, he's almost identical to some character from something I think I enjoyed watching, but I can't remember.  Thought at first it was Vulcan from the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen, but that's not quite it (too much hair).
(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Baron11.png)

Yes, I am happy that this is the only thing bothering me at the moment.   :P

Edit: This isn't it either (again, the hair):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BB3HdNDZudY/Tf1LjUmfZiI/AAAAAAAAAqk/Hy8vGE47zQM/s1600/this%252520is%252520sparta%255B1%255D.jpg)

Still thinking and searching.
Paul Giamotti


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on May 07, 2020, 01:12:22 PM
It looks kinda like one of the pedal guys that makes youtube videos. Maybe dwarfcraft, but I canít remember.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2902/BJ7BhY.jpg)
Daniel Steinhardt from That Pedal Show.  That would be funny, maybe he's yelling "You need a buffer in your signal chain, sheeple!!"
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on May 07, 2020, 05:40:36 PM
This isn't the answer either, I'm afraid, but when it popped into my head, I laughed out loud, so.....

(https://assets.vg247.com/current//2016/02/zangief_super.jpg)
Yes, that's Zangief from Street Fighter.  Not the character I was reminded of, but it would be pretty terrifying facing him down if he were protesting. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 07, 2020, 06:08:27 PM
He looks like he's yelling past the two officers, can't see whether there's anyone behind them.

The bug eyed intensity made me think of Jack Nicholson and the Shining but that's not who you're after.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on May 07, 2020, 06:15:01 PM
Despicable me?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on May 07, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
That one bothered me too  ;D

I settled on Sid Haig.

(https://i1.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screen-Shot-2019-06-10-at-6.01.25-AM.png?ssl=1)
There is a slight chance you may be right.  I would know him best as Donar from Wizards of the Lost Kingdom II (I've watched the corresponding MST3K episode many times), in which he does rather resemble the protester:
(https://criticsden.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/mst3k-wizards2-shot3.jpg)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mst3k/images/d/dc/HaigWiz.jpg)
I'm not 100% sure if he's my answer though....
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on May 08, 2020, 06:55:27 AM
If Sid Haig is close, perhaps it's the man I often confuse him for, Erick Avari.

(https://ymarksthespot.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/flight-of-the-living-dead-2.jpg?w=584)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: lars on May 11, 2020, 10:39:16 AM
Some of you might be too young to remember, but they used to have these places called "barber shops" that would help you with grooming.  I'm hoping they will get trendy with hipsters and come back some day.  ::)
Last time I got a haircut was probably over 20 years ago. So there!
(https://i.postimg.cc/tg5wkNyb/ITT2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on May 13, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
Speaking of hair, how many people are seeing kids running around with pudding-bowl or electric clipper haircuts?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 13, 2020, 10:35:59 AM
Extremely rare to see any kids running around at all, lots in the neighbourhood, i regularly walk around town, they're not out.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 13, 2020, 03:37:00 PM
I went outside after dinner to sit and read with my coffee, there were people cutting lawns, i could hear people talking, yelling to be heard, it was awful couldn't focus at all, had to go back inside, already missing the good old days.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on May 13, 2020, 04:37:19 PM
Speaking of hair, how many people are seeing kids running around with pudding-bowl or electric clipper haircuts?

I usually cut our boys hair anyways, so I've gotten practiced at it, but I myself am in need. looking forward to seeing someone about this shag soon.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 17, 2020, 08:25:07 PM
A nephew got married this afternoon, planned months ago for today, not quite as envisioned or planned, rather abridged version. My sister's immediate family, kids and grandkids alone would account for eighteen heads. Total person count for the ceremony, the official doing the job, the marrying couple, the two mothers, live streamed for anyone else.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on May 17, 2020, 08:34:59 PM
Thatís more than 10 people in a gathering, Iím gonna need you to step out of the car sir.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on May 17, 2020, 11:13:45 PM
Well, at least it'll cut back on extended family feuds erupting over dinner.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on May 18, 2020, 07:42:24 AM
Well, at least it'll cut back on extended family feuds erupting over dinner.
Yeah, but for those of us on the sidelines, thatís entertainment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 18, 2020, 09:58:08 AM
Well, at least it'll cut back on extended family feuds erupting over dinner.

I only see members of my family together at most three times a year, Christmas was the last time, so no time to get the feuds cranked up but...

Another opportunity fast approaching, a niece is getting married in June, again all planned and arranged many months ago, who knows where things will be at in a months time, gatherings of 10 allowed?
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on May 18, 2020, 04:50:00 PM
A friend i haven't seen or talked to since New Year's eve called this afternoon to catch up. She has a nephew going to school in New Zealand and was going to visit in April but that all was kiboshed. Her brother and the rest of his family flew into New Zealand to visit on March 14. On the 16th they were on another plane back to Canada after our government announced get back now or you may not get back in. Weekend trip to New Zealand, 18 or so hours one way.

dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on May 18, 2020, 05:32:38 PM
That blows.  I'm living outside of Chicago these days but had a family friend in Winnipeg pass late last week.  The family is putting off any sort of a large service till restrictions ease a bit.  I'm thankful for that.  Stupidity reigns supreme here in the States as restrictions are lifted in a large number of states and folks are going about their business as if nothing happened.  Thinning the herd I suppose.  As long as everyone stays safe it's good to see the folks that are under a huge financial strain get back on track.  This has been rough.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on June 05, 2020, 08:32:48 PM
A nephew got married this afternoon, planned months ago for today, not quite as envisioned or planned, rather abridged version. My sister's immediate family, kids and grandkids alone would account for eighteen heads. Total person count for the ceremony, the official doing the job, the marrying couple, the two mothers, live streamed for anyone else.
dave

Niece's turn tomorrow to get married. My brother's marrying them i figure so he can squeeze an extra family body into the ceremony, not streaming this on either. Plans gone awry... i think we still have a five person limit in effect.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on June 05, 2020, 09:59:07 PM
Just wanted to put a few cents in.  My company has a project concerning COVID-19 and I've been reading quite a bit about it.  I thought awhile ago that the concern about surface contact infection seemed overblown, the CDC has since adopted this stance.  This thing is transmitted through the air.

My take (I'm not an MD, BTW) is that it's all about shared/dead air.  The virus can stay suspended in air a few hours. A study I read measured virus in the air at a hospital in China.  They found that the virus was virtually undetectable a few meters away from an actual COVID patient (with regular hospital ventilation).  However, when they measured the air in the public bathroom at the hospital it was completely loaded with virus.

So, in my opinion the equation for infection is the volume of air people are putting out (yelling and singing being worse than talking), multiplied by the time of exposure (you need a minimum number of viral particles to get sick and doubling that number gets you much more sick, etc.), divided by the volume (so, outside is best), times the percentage protection you get from your mask (cloth mask is about 50%, medical mask is better, and N95 is ~95%). 

A side note about public bathrooms (Personally, I take the most precaution here). The virus enters lung cells via a human receptor called ACE2.  This receptor is in the GI tract, so, an infected person might be putting it out of both ends.  Felt I had to mention that, because of the hospital bathroom example I gave above. That might be the reason for their observation, but I'd bet on high traffic/ poor ventilation.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: cooder on June 07, 2020, 11:51:21 PM
New Zealand is now officially covid free for now, no new cases emerged the last 17 days in a row despite widespread testing.
I actually got myself tested about ten days ago as well as I had a bit of the sniffles and cold like symptoms, normally I wouldn't make a fuss, but this isn't normall times and if there was anything lurking it would be imperative to know. The test wasn't much fun, the doublle poke in the nose is about as charming as a punch in the face without the concussion. But it's good to be sure, to be sure, as Seamus says...

The last active case officially recovered.
Whoopwhoop. We're from midnight tonight back to pretty much normal but of course borders closed and remaining vigilant, testing etc, to catch anything incoming or popping up. Hopefully not.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/08-06-2020/covid-free-new-zealand-there-are-now-zero-active-covid-19-cases-in-the-country/ (https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/08-06-2020/covid-free-new-zealand-there-are-now-zero-active-covid-19-cases-in-the-country/)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 08, 2020, 06:10:58 AM
Congrats! Keep those borders shut tightly.  I can't help but think the U.S. would immediately fling the doors wide open for the sake of "the economy" upon learning we had become virus-free.   :P
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on June 08, 2020, 07:36:03 AM
I saw that, great news. Every time I cough or sneeze, Iím all, ďoh noĒ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on June 08, 2020, 09:12:13 AM
Congrats! Keep those borders shut tightly.  I can't help but think the U.S. would immediately fling the doors wide open for the sake of "the economy" upon learning we had become virus-free.   :P

...Or just because we got bored of it. We still had 6000 COVID deaths in the past week, but barely anyone is talking about it outside of New York.

It's no less serious now than it was a month ago, but we've got the collective attention span of a puppy - so they reopened most things, and then the unrelated protests started and people forgot that it's actually a VERY BAD IDEA to reopen everything. But it won't be reflected in the data for a couple more weeks and by then we'll think it's a new problem.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on June 08, 2020, 09:48:39 AM
The cases here in TN are steadily on the rise and were opening up more and more, I donít get it. The governor seemingly doesnít care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 08, 2020, 10:03:57 AM
I "love" how Costco is thinking about bringing back food samples.  Essentially, unless they have some extraordinary delivery mechanism in mind, that would mean many people converging in a tiny area, removing their masks, and touching their faces.  Americans, as a subspecies, tend to be irrationally drawn to anything free like moths drawn to a flame.  Thoughts of community/personal safety will completely evaporate when faced with a scarce supply of cut-in-half chicken nuggets in paper cups on a tray.   ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Strategy on June 08, 2020, 01:00:28 PM
Sorry for the long post, but thought this share might be interesting to some:

I had a "mild", "presumptive" case of COVID-19 in March, and have resulting chronic health effects that lasted beyond the initial illness. I was extremely lucky to not be hospitalized but the experience was still terrifying and very touch-and-go, with lots of missed work time and each day trying to decide whether the situation would elevate to an emergency. The state I live in, Oregon, had a coordinated rapid distancing response but the downside was that testing was not widely available around here really until mid-May, so I could not get tested during the initial 'virus load'. I met with my doctor on "telehealth".

When I got sick I was literally in the best shape of my life, running 3k three times a week and doing serious circus arts training/conditioning (acrobatics stuff). I'm 44 with no underlying health issues. Since I "got better" from the illness I have had chronic shortness of breath and asthma or COPD-like episodes of severe wheezing, and inexplicable bouts of extreme exhaustion. An Albuterol inhaler has been a lifesaver. I can almost pretend I'm normal but if I do any exertion, I get a "hangover" of chest pain, lung pain, shortness of breath and wheezing cough that can last several days. Walking my dog one mile leaves me sweating, like going for a run.

It has been hard to get people to believe that I still have long-term effects, giving me a new insight and empathy into the experiences of people who have "invisible illness" like chronic pain, chronic fatigue, psoriatic arthritis, crohn's disease, etc. I typically stay away from random online health information and channel all info through my doctor, but this Atlantic article from last week made me really feel "seen" and it was uncanny to read of similar experiences by others https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/)

I had an antibody test in early May that turned up negative for Covid-19, so since i could not be "ruled in" for that, my doctor has put me under a barrage of tests to rule out heart disease, severe new allergies, liver problems, etc. I have turned up negative for all of these, so we have gradually turned back towards considering this a Covid case, that it's possible that the negative antibody test result is simply a result of the tests' inconsistency and high error rate (which has been fairly widely reported: it's brand new science with no centralized coordination of methodologies etc.). I am going to get an echo-cardiogram to check for heart damage, which some people can get from Covid. I've previously had bronchitis, pneumonia, and influenza (back in my 20s) and FWIW the illness I experienced in March was like none of those things. Pneumonia that I had really felt like severe chest pressure, very "wet"; my March experience was more like a chemical inhalation injury accompanied by feverish symptoms.

IMHO I feel that the scientific community should focus on preventing infection and death first, but if there is an opportunity to be part of a study to understand long-term health effects for mild cases I think it is important to pursue this and would volunteer myself to be part of such a study.

Sorry this was so long and if it was TMI etc.
Strategy

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on June 08, 2020, 01:16:42 PM
Sorry for the long post, but thought this share might be interesting to some:
...
Sorry this was so long and if it was TMI etc.
Strategy

This was helpful. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on June 08, 2020, 01:32:36 PM
Sorry for the long post, but thought this share might be interesting to some:
...
Sorry this was so long and if it was TMI etc.
Strategy

This was helpful. Thanks for sharing.

Seconded. Your story is invaluable, and I appreciate it very much.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: m-Kresol on June 08, 2020, 02:07:27 PM
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Get well soon and best wishes from beyond the pond.

Interesting to hear about these symptoms though. First time I have heard about it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: cooder on June 08, 2020, 02:53:01 PM
Really sorry to hear about your health troubles, really wishing you the best of recovery!
I can totally relate to your story, I have a heart condition (cardiomyopathy; fatigue and limitations and all) which they never found out the reason for after turning me upside down but the most likely theory is that it was caused by side effects of a virus (that was ten years ago, so not covid related).
Here's another article that tells more of the unknown side effects that might be affecting people, and that's certainly a big topic apart from the sad death statistics.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52760992 (https://www.bbc.com/news/52760992)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on June 09, 2020, 09:46:03 AM
Sorry for the long post, but thought this share might be interesting to some:

I had a "mild", "presumptive" case of COVID-19 in March, and have resulting chronic health effects that lasted beyond the initial illness. I was extremely lucky to not be hospitalized but the experience was still terrifying and very touch-and-go, with lots of missed work time and each day trying to decide whether the situation would elevate to an emergency. The state I live in, Oregon, had a coordinated rapid distancing response but the downside was that testing was not widely available around here really until mid-May, so I could not get tested during the initial 'virus load'. I met with my doctor on "telehealth".

When I got sick I was literally in the best shape of my life, running 3k three times a week and doing serious circus arts training/conditioning (acrobatics stuff). I'm 44 with no underlying health issues. Since I "got better" from the illness I have had chronic shortness of breath and asthma or COPD-like episodes of severe wheezing, and inexplicable bouts of extreme exhaustion. An Albuterol inhaler has been a lifesaver. I can almost pretend I'm normal but if I do any exertion, I get a "hangover" of chest pain, lung pain, shortness of breath and wheezing cough that can last several days. Walking my dog one mile leaves me sweating, like going for a run.

It has been hard to get people to believe that I still have long-term effects, giving me a new insight and empathy into the experiences of people who have "invisible illness" like chronic pain, chronic fatigue, psoriatic arthritis, crohn's disease, etc. I typically stay away from random online health information and channel all info through my doctor, but this Atlantic article from last week made me really feel "seen" and it was uncanny to read of similar experiences by others https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/)



I had an antibody test in early May that turned up negative for Covid-19, so since i could not be "ruled in" for that, my doctor has put me under a barrage of tests to rule out heart disease, severe new allergies, liver problems, etc. I have turned up negative for all of these, so we have gradually turned back towards considering this a Covid case, that it's possible that the negative antibody test result is simply a result of the tests' inconsistency and high error rate (which has been fairly widely reported: it's brand new science with no centralized coordination of methodologies etc.). I am going to get an echo-cardiogram to check for heart damage, which some people can get from Covid. I've previously had bronchitis, pneumonia, and influenza (back in my 20s) and FWIW the illness I experienced in March was like none of those things. Pneumonia that I had really felt like severe chest pressure, very "wet"; my March experience was more like a chemical inhalation injury accompanied by feverish symptoms.

IMHO I feel that the scientific community should focus on preventing infection and death first, but if there is an opportunity to be part of a study to understand long-term health effects for mild cases I think it is important to pursue this and would volunteer myself to be part of such a study.

Sorry this was so long and if it was TMI etc.
Strategy

No apology necessary, info everyone needs to hear.

Any idea or strong suspicion from whom or where you may have contracted the virus?

All the best in your recovery!
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on June 09, 2020, 11:36:52 AM
I "love" how Costco is thinking about bringing back food samples.  Essentially, unless they have some extraordinary delivery mechanism in mind, that would mean many people converging in a tiny area, removing their masks, and touching their faces.  Americans, as a subspecies, tend to be irrationally drawn to anything free like moths drawn to a flame.  Thoughts of community/personal safety will completely evaporate when faced with a scarce supply of cut-in-half chicken nuggets in paper cups on a tray.   ::)
I work in cybersecurity and any time the subject of social engineering comes up I'm reminded of exactly how much actionable information people are willing to give you for a free pen or other trade show swag.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Strategy on June 09, 2020, 11:38:08 AM
Quote
No apology necessary, info everyone needs to hear.

Any idea or strong suspicion from whom or where you may have contracted the virus?

All the best in your recovery!
dave

Thanks all for the kind responses, it's appreciated.
No idea where I could have contracted it. I know people who have had confirmed or suspected Covid cases, but none of them are people I had seen in person for many weeks, or they don't live in the same city as I. I work in the downtown of a major metropolitan area, and through the winter weather I was taking public transportation a lot (I bike in spring/summer/fall), so I was in cramped light rail for almost two hours a day. It could have been anywhere: restaurant, at the office, in the train. Based on the science I'm guessing it was an enclosed space with inadequate air flow and tight / nonexistent personal space bubbles. If my wife, or the youth we look after were asymptomatic carriers I could have simply gotten it from one of them at home.
- Strategy
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 09, 2020, 12:10:26 PM
That sounds rough, sorry to hear you went through that. Hopefully you end up recovering fully given some more time.

I donít know anyone who has been personally affected by covid 19 yet, so it is really helpful to hear first hand accounts. Iím sure itís not particularly easy to write about.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 26, 2020, 05:18:38 AM
The climbing gym I used to go to (I still have a membership on hold) is now moving to the next phase of their reopening (allowing guest passes and day passes--essentially, opening up to non-members) before I am even remotely close to being comfortable enough with their first phase policies to go back. I have similar thoughts about restaurants (I'm not even close to being comfortable with patio dining, and now indoor seating is opening up everywhere). I think, due mostly to my anxiety, perhaps, that I'm going to always lag far behind accepting any business reopening phases.  I'll be the last guy still wearing a mask, maybe.  Anxiety and chronic stress are really exhausting.  I feel less and less safe the more people are told it is economically/politically convenient to venture out and do more. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on June 26, 2020, 05:38:35 AM
I hear you EBK. I was just starting to dabble with curbside pickup or delivery. My state is almost fully reopened, and businesses are eager to ditch curbside. My doctor told me to stay isolated until further notice. I've been home for 105 days, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, and probably the remainder of 2020.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on June 26, 2020, 07:10:20 AM
My state is basically totally reopened... and it's kinda terrible. Our new infection rate per capita is the highest in the US right now, and... yeah.

(https://i.redd.it/hrdf422cc6751.jpg)

We've been averaging more than 3,000 new cases a day for a while now, and.... yeah. And Next week I am expecting to see a large spike when the folks who attended the Trump rally last Tuesday (which was a small, crowded venue, full of non-masked folks loudly vocalizing).

Wheeeeeee  :-\
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on June 26, 2020, 08:33:00 AM
I think the only hope in the long term is that the kids that get really sick start flooding it out on social media.  I "get" that most kids get milder symptoms, but as Strategy mentioned, it isn't just the deathly ill stuff, it's the long term effects and/or damage.

I have a buddy in NY that got VERY sick and is now dealing with stuff similar to Strategy.  His wife was sick over a weekend with temps and the like and by mid-week was perfectly fine.  It's a bit of a crap shoot.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on June 26, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
I think the only hope in the long term is that the kids that get really sick start flooding it out on social media.  I "get" that most kids get milder symptoms, but as Strategy mentioned, it isn't just the deathly ill stuff, it's the long term effects and/or damage.

Not to mention the Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome that they still don't know much about, but seems to be linked to COVID. Fortunately it's still really rare even in New York so hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a big deal.

The thing that gets me is that it seems (anecdotally) that all the hardcore anti-vaxx moms are almost fully overlapped on the Venn diagram with the "you can't force me to wear a mask in public" people. They'll dedicate their stay-at-home free time to spreading awareness of an unproven incredibly remote chance that something that will definitely have a 1000% improvement on your long term health might also have a negative side effect so you can't force me to give it to my kids, BUT they'll also rail against being expected to do something that definitely slows the spread of COVID and has zero side effects. I think I see the common denominator and it has nothing to do with health.

COVID and George Floyd have both been among the most horrifying things to happen in the past 4 years, but one shared effect they've both had is to shine a bright light everywhere, including on some of the darkest corners of our culture, and people in those corners can't hide from it anymore. We are seeing everyone (both public figures and people in our own lives) for who they really are, and seeing that they don't really stand for the things they want you to think they stand for.

My hope is that we don't lose track of who's who once things settle back down in a year, because a lot of people are going to try to slink back into the shadows as soon as they can to avoid being taken to task for things they've done and said that were harmful.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jubal81 on June 26, 2020, 09:24:11 AM
I think the only hope in the long term is that the kids that get really sick start flooding it out on social media.  I "get" that most kids get milder symptoms, but as Strategy mentioned, it isn't just the deathly ill stuff, it's the long term effects and/or damage.

Not to mention the Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome that they still don't know much about, but seems to be linked to COVID. Fortunately it's still really rare even in New York so hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a big deal.

The thing that gets me is that it seems (anecdotally) that all the hardcore anti-vaxx moms are almost fully overlapped on the Venn diagram with the "you can't force me to wear a mask in public" people. They'll dedicate their stay-at-home free time to spreading awareness of an unproven incredibly remote chance that something that will definitely have a 1000% improvement on your long term health might also have a negative side effect so you can't force me to give it to my kids, BUT they'll also rail against being expected to do something that definitely slows the spread of COVID and has zero side effects. I think I see the common denominator and it has nothing to do with health.

COVID and George Floyd have both been among the most horrifying things to happen in the past 4 years, but one shared effect they've both had is to shine a bright light everywhere, including on some of the darkest corners of our culture, and people in those corners can't hide from it anymore. We are seeing everyone (both public figures and people in our own lives) for who they really are, and seeing that they don't really stand for the things they want you to think they stand for.

My hope is that we don't lose track of who's who once things settle back down in a year, because a lot of people are going to try to slink back into the shadows as soon as they can to avoid being taken to task for things they've done and said that were harmful.


Social media is destroying us. Zuckerberg is a legit, comic-book level supervillain. He thinks he's a god, like he's given humans fire and it's up to them what to do with it. What he's done is monetize extremism.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on June 26, 2020, 09:31:25 AM
Social media is destroying us. Zuckerberg is a legit, comic-book level supervillain. He thinks he's a god, like he's given humans fire and it's up to them what to do with it. What he's done is monetize extremism.

Engrave this in stone so future generations can have a concise explanation for what happened to their forebears.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on June 26, 2020, 09:44:40 AM
+1 on the above 3.  I've taken the head-in-the-sand approach to not being on ANY social media.  Wish a lot of others would do the same.

Funny how it becomes a "civil liberties issue" with masks.  It's the same argument with seat belts.  You're free to be as stupid as you want, but it's such a minor inconvenience and does so much...

Eh, horses and water and all that I guess.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 26, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Eh, horses and water and all that I guess.
Horses aren't real though.  8)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 26, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
+1 on the above 3.  I've taken the head-in-the-sand approach to not being on ANY social media.  Wish a lot of others would do the same.

Funny how it becomes a "civil liberties issue" with masks.  It's the same argument with seat belts.  You're free to be as stupid as you want, but it's such a minor inconvenience and does so much...

Eh, horses and water and all that I guess.

Itís not like seat beats though. If you choose to not wear a seatbelt you are putting yourself at increased risk of harm or death. With face mask, not only do you increase your chances of getting sick, you risk spreading the infection to anyone you come in contact with. Itís like driving drunk but the consequences come less quickly so you may never be aware that someone got very sick or died because of ones selfish decision to ďprotect their right to not wear a maskĒ or whatever bullshit.

Jubal81, your super-villain comment is great and very on point, unfortunately. Best piece of text Iíve read in a long time.


By the way, this thread continues to help me keep sane.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on June 26, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Agreed. Same stupidity, different consequences.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on June 26, 2020, 01:48:40 PM
What amazed me was how hard the media was pushing the 'Stay home, avoid large gatherings' Covid-19 thing, and when George Floyd happened, they immediately changed to 'Look at all these brave protesters doing the Right Thing', and now they're right back to 'Avoid large gatherings.' Maybe I'm being far too cynical.

NZ has a few Chinavirus cases, now, since we've started repatriating people back home. They're on a 14 day quarantine on re-entry... apart from two infamous cases where the people under quarantine just HAAAAAD to go to a funeral, and the person controlling the quarantine felt sorry for them.

You know. Despite everyone fucking else being told by the Gov't to avoid funerals (and church services, and all large gatherings.)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on June 26, 2020, 09:33:01 PM
Hey guys,

I want to have this discussion continue as I feel it is an important one to be having. However, I do ask that we all refrain from terms like "Kung Flu" and "Chinavirus". I realize people have all sorts of names and puns for COVID, but as the admin I feel it's necessary to emphasize we avoid language that can be interpreted as incendiary. Some people take offense to the slang so we should try to avoid any divisive rhetoric for the sake of the forum.

Here's my story for this week. I had a dentist appt. and I thought a lot about cancelling it. But, I knew if I did I wouldn't reschedule for a year or more (plus my dentist is no longer accepting my insurance so I am out of network). Got there, plastic shields for the receptionist and I see hygienists wearing PPE. But, I had a new DH this time and sure enough, she came out wearing no mask (I was wearing mine, of course). She eventually put one on when she started working on me, but I feel like I should have asked her to do that before I went into her workspace. I was a bit weak in that moment. Hopefully, I won't regret that :(
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on June 26, 2020, 09:54:50 PM
As an Arizona resident I've been hearing "kung flu" a LOT this week, because it was literally being CHANTED at the Trump rally last Tuesday. Also, apparently, no one knows what the "19" in COVID-19 means!  ::) (I don't want to live in this state anymore...)

I too have had a few dentist appointments this past week, but they've been pretty good about it. Everyone is masked, 6ft between seats in the waiting room, and they take your temperature as soon as you walk in the door. (Granted they also tacked a 10$ surcharge onto the bill for "COVID PPE" but eh, I can live with that)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on June 26, 2020, 10:08:48 PM
Haven't been to my dentist in 2020 but my hygienists and dentists have been masked for years of appointments.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 26, 2020, 10:12:59 PM
What amazed me was how hard the media was pushing the 'Stay home, avoid large gatherings' Covid-19 thing, and when George Floyd happened, they immediately changed to 'Look at all these brave protesters doing the Right Thing', and now they're right back to 'Avoid large gatherings.' Maybe I'm being far too cynical.

There is a lot to unpack with that Alan, and I think it might be more complicated than it looks from the outside. We have some issues that really need to be addressed in this country, and the shit usually doesn't hit the fan on a convenient timeline.

Everyone knew that those protest were not the greatest idea from a public health standpoint, but they needed to happen, and were (hopefully) incredibly effective.

Feel free to drop me a PM if you want to know anymore.

Meanwhile, back to the pandemic I guess.... (sigh, dammit)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on June 26, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
In Nevada, our Governor, Steve Sisolak, made wearing masks mandatory when in public on the 24th.
On the 25th, I went a picked up a new laser printer (My HP LaserJet M102 doesn't let you set toner density so its useless for making boards, the only reason I really need a laser for) at Staples. The few people I saw, maybe 3 or 4, wore masks. Went to Home Depot, and maybe half the people wore masks.
Earlier today, went to Walmart and Lowes, and maybe 50% of the people I saw were wearing masks.
Cases of infected have jumped up pretty rapidly since June 1st, although comparatively low compared to other states in the USA.
( https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/state-timeline/new-confirmed-cases/nevada/14 )
And most of the cases are in Las Vegas. They have roughly 5 times as many cases in Clark County alone than the rest of the stats combined.
I'm in Washoe county right on the border of Washoe and Lyon counties so here, we are doing pretty good so far.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on June 27, 2020, 08:37:03 AM
I feel like itís only a matter of time before it grows to all of the states again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 27, 2020, 08:56:53 AM
I feel like itís only a matter of time before it grows to all of the states again.
It's been in every state constantly for months now, hasn't it?  ??? I mean, I know some governors are better at pretending than others, but still. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on June 27, 2020, 08:59:15 AM
I feel like itís only a matter of time before it grows to all of the states again.
It's been in every state constantly for months now, hasn't it?  ??? I mean, I know some governors are better at pretending than others, but still.
Yes, but what I was talking about the insane increases. It seems to have dropped from 100+ a day to about 40 or 50 here in Chattanooga. Weíre opening things up completely, so I wouldnít be surprised if hospital beds werenít full by the fall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on June 27, 2020, 11:32:21 AM
I need a haircut.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 27, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
I feel like itís only a matter of time before it grows to all of the states again.
It's been in every state constantly for months now, hasn't it?  ??? I mean, I know some governors are better at pretending than others, but still.
Yes, but what I was talking about the insane increases. It seems to have dropped from 100+ a day to about 40 or 50 here in Chattanooga. Weíre opening things up completely, so I wouldnít be surprised if hospital beds werenít full by the fall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly, if things donít change pretty soon I worry they will be full way before then
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on June 27, 2020, 01:48:47 PM
AZ is currently sitting at 89% ICU capacity (as of this morning), with 3591 new cases and 45 deaths in the last 24 hours. Wheeeeeee....
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 27, 2020, 02:04:44 PM
AZ is currently sitting at 89% ICU capacity (as of this morning), with 3591 new cases and 45 deaths in the last 24 hours. Wheeeeeee....

Stay safe man, that is not cool.


Iím finding myself getting more paranoid again. I ordered some parts from tayda with expedited shipping, got them in four days then decided I didnít want to touch the package for a few days  :-\
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on June 27, 2020, 02:28:42 PM
Stay safe man, that is not cool.

Yeah, and to compound matters I had fairly major dental surgery this week, so my immune system is kinda working overtime as it is.  :-\

I'm spending a lot of time just hiding indoors, only shopping at the one store I know for a fact is actually enforcing mask wearing (whole foods, plus it's in walking distance, bonus)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on June 27, 2020, 03:38:06 PM
I feel like itís only a matter of time before it grows to all of the states again.
It's been in every state constantly for months now, hasn't it?  ??? I mean, I know some governors are better at pretending than others, but still.
Yes, but what I was talking about the insane increases. It seems to have dropped from 100+ a day to about 40 or 50 here in Chattanooga. Weíre opening things up completely, so I wouldnít be surprised if hospital beds werenít full by the fall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Washoe County, Nevada had 108 cases yesterday.
That's a new record here.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on June 27, 2020, 04:20:12 PM
Iím finding myself getting more paranoid again. I ordered some parts from tayda with expedited shipping, got them in four days then decided I didnít want to touch the package for a few days  :-\

Most of the surface contamination worry has been downgraded.  This has really alleviated a lot of my anxiety over the whole pandemic.  I have some molecular biology in my background and consequently have been trained to remember what my hands have touched and what surfaces are likely to be contaminated.  It was a lot of extra mental CPU usage that I don't have now.

WSJ had a great article summing up the consensus view of the virus (link below).  Basically, you want to avoid sharing indoor air with people, that's how the virus is moving.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-exactly-do-you-catch-covid-19-there-is-a-growing-consensus-11592317650?mod=hp_lead_pos5 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-exactly-do-you-catch-covid-19-there-is-a-growing-consensus-11592317650?mod=hp_lead_pos5)

I have a pdf copy I can email if people are interested and can't get it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on June 28, 2020, 09:45:04 AM
National News in Canada indicates that the Second Wave has arrived in South Korea. I'm not sure what differentiates 2nd from 1st, because most of the world is still in deescalation from the first wave, while the US seems to still be escalating.

Here in Canada our numbers are fairly terrifying. A little over 110,000 cases, and about 9000 deaths. That's somewhat worsened because outbreaks got started in some provinces in the Seniors residences. Here where I live, the population most affected was seniors over 60. Of 180 confirmed cases in the 60 plus group, we had 13 deaths.

It seems also that there's more news reports indicating that survivors are continuing to experience complications. I am very tired of trying to explain to people that they DON'T want to contract this virus. It seems there's a widespread idea out there that if enough of us get this virus it will just die off and go away. That idea ignores the reality that the more people who get the virus the more potential for mutation and then resurgence, as well as the reality that some people will just never be able to breath the same again after it.

I got permanent lung damage from a bad case of Pneumonia in my 20's. I'm healthy, and don't suffer awfully from it, but if Covid were to compound on top of that for me...

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 29, 2020, 05:46:21 AM
It seems there's a widespread idea out there that if enough of us get this virus it will just die off and go away. That idea ignores the reality that the more people who get the virus the more potential for mutation and then resurgence, as well as the reality that some people will just never be able to breath the same again after it.
I remember reading about a total asshat walking around the U.S. Capitol Building simply saying "herd immunity" when asked why he refuses to wear a mask.  I think he may even have a medical degree (truly frightening).  I can't remember which state he represents.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on June 29, 2020, 09:41:42 AM
It seems there's a widespread idea out there that if enough of us get this virus it will just die off and go away. That idea ignores the reality that the more people who get the virus the more potential for mutation and then resurgence, as well as the reality that some people will just never be able to breath the same again after it.
I remember reading about a total asshat walking around the U.S. Capitol Building simply saying "herd immunity" when asked why he refuses to wear a mask.  I think he may even have a medical degree (truly frightening).  I can't remember which state he represents.

For whatever reason when i see reference to 'herd' i always think lemmings mass suicide off a cliff (apparently a myth and perpetuated by Disney, but nevertheless the image endures.)

(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:800x1000/44/195044-050-E82988A0/Lemmings-Really-Commit-Mass-Suicide-illustration.jpg)
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on June 29, 2020, 12:14:35 PM
It seems there's a widespread idea out there that if enough of us get this virus it will just die off and go away. That idea ignores the reality that the more people who get the virus the more potential for mutation and then resurgence, as well as the reality that some people will just never be able to breath the same again after it.
I remember reading about a total asshat walking around the U.S. Capitol Building simply saying "herd immunity" when asked why he refuses to wear a mask.  I think he may even have a medical degree (truly frightening).  I can't remember which state he represents.

For whatever reason when i see reference to 'herd' i always think lemmings mass suicide off a cliff (apparently a myth and perpetuated by Disney, but nevertheless the image endures.)

(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:800x1000/44/195044-050-E82988A0/Lemmings-Really-Commit-Mass-Suicide-illustration.jpg)
dave
+1 tThatís about the size of it! Seems like a great concept til you get sick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: thesmokingman on June 29, 2020, 03:17:10 PM
ideally what we need is only enough people immune that the virus isn't pushed to mutate more rapidly (or more radically) to find new hosts ... in agriculture those anti-vaxxers or just people who do not have access to a vaccine would be considered "refuge" ... the rest of us would get some mileage out of being vaccinated, world keeps on spinning. tbh with the amount of people catching it more than once ever-increasing I'm wondering what an effective vaccine would even look like
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on June 29, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
It seems there's a widespread idea out there that if enough of us get this virus it will just die off and go away. That idea ignores the reality that the more people who get the virus the more potential for mutation and then resurgence, as well as the reality that some people will just never be able to breath the same again after it.
I remember reading about a total asshat walking around the U.S. Capitol Building simply saying "herd immunity" when asked why he refuses to wear a mask.  I think he may even have a medical degree (truly frightening).  I can't remember which state he represents.
Sounds like Rand Paul.
Senator (R-KY) since 2011.
Education: Duke University School of Medicine (1984Ė1988)
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-management-administration/10-things-to-know-about-rand-paul-s-medical-career-healthcare-views.html

First US senator to test positive for coronavirus
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics/rand-paul-coronavirus/index.html
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on June 29, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
Actually, I think it was Ted Yoho, representing Florida of all places.  He has a degree in Veterinary Medicine.

Just to be clear, I would call anyone who refuses to wear a face mask with the justification of "herd immunity" a total asshat.  This has nothing to do with his political views or affiliations.  Also, quarantine fatigue has caused me to have a shorter fuse than normal.  I apologize for using such impolite language in this extremely friendly place. I will try harder to restrain myself in the future.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: CodeMonk on June 29, 2020, 05:10:07 PM
You're fine.
I tend to have a disdain for most politicians, even the ones I would be willing to vote for.
I've read about a few moronic things Rand Paul has said or done.
But with you naming a Florida politician for being a bit uhm, off the rails, you win :)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on June 29, 2020, 07:19:10 PM
'Herd immunity', has it been established there is immunity once having recovered from having Covid-19?

From the CDC website, updated June 28, 2020;

The immune response, including duration of immunity, to SARS-CoV-2 infection is not yet understood. Patients with MERS-CoV are unlikely to be re-infected shortly after they recover, but it is not yet known whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

dave

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on June 29, 2020, 08:22:37 PM
'Herd immunity', has it been established there is immunity once having recovered from having Covid-19?

From the CDC website, updated June 28, 2020;

The immune response, including duration of immunity, to SARS-CoV-2 infection is not yet understood. Patients with MERS-CoV are unlikely to be re-infected shortly after they recover, but it is not yet known whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

dave

Youíre rightóthere is no consensus regarding the adaptive immune response and much that is not yet fully understood. Remember that this is a novel pathogen and thereís still much unknown. The cardiovascular impacts are particularly concerning.

Iím glad to see that folks (especially young people) here have an appreciation for the severity of this. With that said, though, the impacts of anxiety are important too. Be responsible and take care of yourself is the best advice. But, this is not over and the warm weather isnít going to make it disappear. The novel nature of the pathogen is more dominant than any environmental factor (i.e., this doesnít have the cyclical seasonal pattern of established infectious diseases because it is new to our innate immune response). However, the decrease in sustained, close indoor contact has a mitigating effect.

On a related note, yes thereís a mutation in the virus. No, that doesnít mean anything in particular. Viruses copy themselves as they infect/spread. Theyíre also not very good at it and copy errors are made. From a virusí perspective, itís most beneficial to become less virulent/lethal while becoming more infectious (think common cold rhinoviruses). They want to be able to spread without inconveniencing/killing those it infects. So, as news reports come out about Ďmutationsíójust as with everything elseóthat needs to be contextualized and studied before it really means anything.

Small rant: The world absolutely had the opportunity to contain and perhaps eradicate SARS-CoV-2. That we didnít is a massive failure. There is dwindling hope of that now. Even with a vaccine, the (almost certain) necessity of cold-chain supply and the trend of aversion to vaccines in middle- and high-income countries means that that wonít be the final answer.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on June 29, 2020, 08:54:42 PM
Plenty of people have gotten so used to just waiting for the next news cycle to make problems disappear. Unfortunately that hasn't turned out to be a viable strategy in this case.

The thing I really don't understand is how we didn't use those couple of months were everything was shut down to educate ourselves on best practices so that things could more safely reopen. It felt like to me we closed everything down, then just waited a while. What changed during that time that made reopening safe? Now infections are rapidly increasing again, just like they were before we closed. We should have had a concerted public health movement to help us get smart so that we could safely reopen and not have to face closing down again a month later, like we are now.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: bamslam69 on June 29, 2020, 10:09:05 PM
So far down here in Australia we haven't been told "officially" to wear masks. Still quite a few people are wearing them, but that doesn't stop some from doing silly stuff like ignoring social distancing.

Our toll is still low, but a 2nd wave is hitting Victoria. Some state borders still closed too.

Looking forward to getting back to the pub, but at least our band can rehearse again. Sick of working from home too.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Beedoola on July 02, 2020, 11:29:06 AM
'Herd immunity', has it been established there is immunity once having recovered from having Covid-19?

From the CDC website, updated June 28, 2020;

The immune response, including duration of immunity, to SARS-CoV-2 infection is not yet understood. Patients with MERS-CoV are unlikely to be re-infected shortly after they recover, but it is not yet known whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

dave

Youíre rightóthere is no consensus regarding the adaptive immune response and much that is not yet fully understood. Remember that this is a novel pathogen and thereís still much unknown. The cardiovascular impacts are particularly concerning.

Iím glad to see that folks (especially young people) here have an appreciation for the severity of this. With that said, though, the impacts of anxiety are important too. Be responsible and take care of yourself is the best advice. But, this is not over and the warm weather isnít going to make it disappear. The novel nature of the pathogen is more dominant than any environmental factor (i.e., this doesnít have the cyclical seasonal pattern of established infectious diseases because it is new to our innate immune response). However, the decrease in sustained, close indoor contact has a mitigating effect.

On a related note, yes thereís a mutation in the virus. No, that doesnít mean anything in particular. Viruses copy themselves as they infect/spread. Theyíre also not very good at it and copy errors are made. From a virusí perspective, itís most beneficial to become less virulent/lethal while becoming more infectious (think common cold rhinoviruses). They want to be able to spread without inconveniencing/killing those it infects. So, as news reports come out about Ďmutationsíójust as with everything elseóthat needs to be contextualized and studied before it really means anything.

Small rant: The world absolutely had the opportunity to contain and perhaps eradicate SARS-CoV-2. That we didnít is a massive failure. There is dwindling hope of that now. Even with a vaccine, the (almost certain) necessity of cold-chain supply and the trend of aversion to vaccines in middle- and high-income countries means that that wonít be the final answer.

Here in the Bay Area I see the use of masks by young people as mixed. I find it interesting as I know some younger people (I'm 35, these people being in their early 20s) that were Bernie supporters but don't seem to get or care about masks.

I find the reluctance to wear masks akin to people that don't want to wear a bicycle helmet cause they think it makes them look uncool. This isn't to say anyone that doesn't wear a helmet does it for that reason.

Could be also the misinformation that is still lingering that CV19 only effects older people.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 02, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
I have been reading articles that suggest a big reason for the increasing numbers is people spreading spreading Covid at family get togethers and small parties. If stuff like that is causing an uptick I think itís time to face the fact that schools wonít be able to safely open next month.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 02, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
I have been reading articles that suggest a big reason for the increasing numbers is people spreading spreading Covid at family get togethers and small parties. If stuff like that is causing an uptick I think itís time to face the fact that schools wonít be able to safely open next month.
Agreed.  Our city schools are still trying to figure things out.  They've suggested allowing parents to keep their kids home for more remote learning or allowing kids to return on alternating days, which I consider more difficult to manage than keeping them home, especially when I have two kids who wouldn't necessarily have the same at-school days.  I'm imagining my daughter refusing to go to school on her at-school day and yanking her mask off so that I can't safely make her go.  I can't handle that.

Also, as I've said before, my comfort level is at Phase 0, regardless of what reopening phase my state is rushing into.  I'm still on mandatory telework, with the option to enter the office only for a very limited time with express written authorization (highly discouraged).

Seriously, WTF:
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200702130736-hp-only-20200702-us-covid-cases-hp-large-tease.png)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 02, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 02, 2020, 12:49:01 PM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.

Or the Lone Ranger apparently?

(Either DJT has never seen the Lone Ranger or he doesn't understand what kind of mask we're supposed to wear for COVID, but either way something's terribly wrong.)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 02, 2020, 01:23:58 PM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.

Or the Lone Ranger apparently?

(Either DJT has never seen the Lone Ranger or he doesn't understand what kind of mask we're supposed to wear for COVID, but either way something's terribly wrong.)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/S5na7KFk0rDU6Cbvff/giphy.gif)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 02, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Why not a Covid party, party with a known infected person and the first person to get doctor verification they now have it wins the booty.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/alabama-coronavirus-parties-trnd/index.html

dave

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 02, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
I wonder how much the prize is....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 02, 2020, 02:57:26 PM
There's a phrase Tim Pool likes... "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

(The phrase he REALLY likes is, "It's complicated.")
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 03, 2020, 08:50:28 AM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.

Or the Lone Ranger apparently?

(Either DJT has never seen the Lone Ranger or he doesn't understand what kind of mask we're supposed to wear for COVID, but either way something's terribly wrong.)

And there we have it!

(https://i.postimg.cc/26SPWRp4/image.png) (https://twitter.com/zelley/status/1278892348760633345)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 03, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.
Mine make me feel like Chun-Li from Street Fighter 2.  I might also be wearing them wrong though....  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 03, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
I have an N95 mask, I think it looks cool. I feel like cobra from GI joe or bane from the Batman series.
Mine make me feel like Chun-Li from Street Fighter 2.  I might also be wearing them wrong though....  ;D
Bwahahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 05, 2020, 05:31:42 PM
Tomorrow is my five month haircutiversary!
Haven't even had a trim.  It helps that I'm losing hair about as fast as I grow it, but my receding mullet probably looks terrible.  ;D

Also, I haven't used a public restroom since March 15th, although I came close to breaking that streak when I drank coffee on the way to the grocery store two weeks ago.  :o
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 05, 2020, 05:42:47 PM
Oh my! Mines pretty long too, about the middle of my back. Canít wait to get it trimmed up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 05, 2020, 06:51:16 PM
Oh my! Mines pretty long too, about the middle of my back. Canít wait to get it trimmed up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting there too, four year anniversary fast approaching. Every once in while i think maybe i'll get it cut when this mess is all over, always comes back to, why, what for?
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 05, 2020, 06:53:28 PM
Oh my! Mines pretty long too, about the middle of my back. Canít wait to get it trimmed up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting there too, four year anniversary fast approaching. Every once in while i think maybe i'll get it cut when this mess is all over, always comes back to, why, what for?
dave
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 05, 2020, 07:23:21 PM
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.
Before the pandemic, I used to get a haircut every 5-6 weeks.   ;D
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 05, 2020, 07:33:05 PM
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.
Before the pandemic, I used to get a haircut every 5-6 weeks.   ;D
Wow man. Thatís so often. I may have had mine trimmed 5 or six times in the last 5 years.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on July 05, 2020, 07:42:40 PM
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.
Before the pandemic, I used to get a haircut every 5-6 weeks.   ;D
Wow man. Thatís so often. I may have had mine trimmed 5 or six times in the last 5 years.

Not to play the 1-up game but I haven't had a haircut in 25 years probably. These days I just shave it all off every couple of months.
Back in the early 90's I had long curly locks and was a marginally handsome bastid. I've become peaceful with the ugliness of middle-age!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 06, 2020, 05:18:27 AM
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.
Before the pandemic, I used to get a haircut every 5-6 weeks.   ;D
Wow man. Thatís so often. I may have had mine trimmed 5 or six times in the last 5 years.

Not to play the 1-up game but I haven't had a haircut in 25 years probably. These days I just shave it all off every couple of months.
Back in the early 90's I had long curly locks and was a marginally handsome bastid. I've become peaceful with the ugliness of middle-age!
You sexy bald bastard!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 06, 2020, 05:54:51 AM
If I were any good at Photoshop, I'd turn that pic into and L.L. Bean catalog cover parody, perhaps making the logo "ΛΛ. Bean"

I'm actually at a crossroads in personal grooming.  I feel like I no longer have enough hair at the front of my head to justify spending money on a nice haircut, and it will be a VERY long time before I would be comfortable going somewhere for a professional to cut my hair anyway.  I don't really fancy the idea of a buzz cut or a shaved head though. Guess that leaves me with the Keith Flint Prodigy hairdo as my only option.   :P
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on July 06, 2020, 09:52:43 AM
Totally agree, I just trim mine up about every 6 months.
Before the pandemic, I used to get a haircut every 5-6 weeks.   ;D
Wow man. Thatís so often. I may have had mine trimmed 5 or six times in the last 5 years.

Not to play the 1-up game but I haven't had a haircut in 25 years probably. These days I just shave it all off every couple of months.
Back in the early 90's I had long curly locks and was a marginally handsome bastid. I've become peaceful with the ugliness of middle-age!

Man, it is QUITE the downhill slide to your profile pic.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on July 06, 2020, 10:09:11 AM
Man, it is QUITE the downhill slide to your profile pic.

hahaha
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on July 06, 2020, 04:07:09 PM

I'm actually at a crossroads in personal grooming.  I feel like I no longer have enough hair at the front of my head to justify spending money on a nice haircut, and it will be a VERY long time before I would be comfortable going somewhere for a professional to cut my hair anyway.  I don't really fancy the idea of a buzz cut or a shaved head though. Guess that leaves me with the Keith Flint Prodigy hairdo as my only option.   :P

I've been rocking the hairstyle of Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons for years.  "Worst hairstyle ever".

Putting on a hat is always an option.  ;)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Willybomb on July 10, 2020, 01:14:40 AM
If we're playing the "I used to have hair" game, I'm up for a round...  One pic from 2006, one from 2015....
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 07:03:59 AM
I believe at this point so few people see me from day to day that I have some how been transferred to some paradoxical sub-universe where hair may or may not even exist.


In all seriousness though, our failure to respond to this is becoming quite alarming.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 10, 2020, 07:22:05 AM
In all seriousness though, our failure to respond to this is becoming quite alarming.

Yeah, I mean - failure IN responding to this is one thing, trying something and in retrospect it turned out to be the wrong thing. But failure TO respond is entirely another, and every day it's more and more appalling.

He's obviously in over his head and needs to resign. I think he knows by now he's not going to get reelected, but instead of doing the honorable thing, he's just going to go into smash-and-grab mode and try to do as much as he can for himself & his friends to best position himself for post-presidency life. One that he desperately hopes does not include prison time, and ideally would involve running his own Fox News alternative network so he can continue spouting nonsense.

I feel like we've already had enough happen in the first 3 years to keep our country's authors, filmmakers and showrunners busy for decades to come, but 2020 has been a whole new level. Previously it was just content for comedy or crime drama, but now it's like serious psychology stuff where it'll take years for us to come to terms socially and scientifically with what was wrong with us. It's weird to see it happen in real-time, knowing how people in the future will look back on us and think we had to be insane.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 10, 2020, 10:06:12 AM
[Removed]
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on July 10, 2020, 10:39:18 AM
So I work two jobs, one in elementary education, the other at a university, and the idea of reopening the schools is terrifying to me. Between brash self-centered college kids (through no fault of their own I might add), and children too young to understand the gravity of the situation, I'm almost guaranteed to get it. Especially considering this is in rural NW Ohio...

I'm strongly considering quitting the elementary job if they plan to open following the current guidelines that only suggest face masks for grades 3+. Over half of my day is working with kindergartners. Why on earth would I subject myself to 60 kindergartners without face masks in a community where over half the population is anti-science pandemic deniers??

I understand the fear people have of not being able to put food on the table. But having sacrificing one's health just to do so is a gross injustice. That conundrum should not exist in this situation. The system is broken. I'm not going to put my life and the life of those I value at risk just to return to playing a game that we have little say in.

Screw this. None of us should be put in this position. At this point student loans are the only thing preventing me from moving to a shack in the middle of nowhere along a river where I can be self-sustainable.


The dude does not abide...

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 11:12:56 AM
So I work two jobs, one in elementary education, the other at a university, and the idea of reopening the schools is terrifying to me. Between brash self-centered college kids (through no fault of their own I might add), and children too young to understand the gravity of the situation, I'm almost guaranteed to get it. Especially considering this is in rural NW Ohio...

I'm strongly considering quitting the elementary job if they plan to open following the current guidelines that only suggest face masks for grades 3+. Over half of my day is working with kindergartners. Why on earth would I subject myself to 60 kindergartners without face masks in a community where over half the population is anti-science pandemic deniers??

I understand the fear people have of not being able to put food on the table. But having sacrificing one's health just to do so is a gross injustice. That conundrum should not exist in this situation. The system is broken. I'm not going to put my life and the life of those I value at risk just to return to playing a game that we have little say in.

Screw this. None of us should be put in this position. At this point student loans are the only thing preventing me from moving to a shack in the middle of nowhere along a river where I can be self-sustainable.


The dude does not abide...

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Yeah, I was reading something that suggested that the downsides of interrupting childrenís education and development outweigh the chance they could spread Covid. It read like propaganda. It strikes me as ridiculous, What happens to that kid If they bring home this shit then one of their parents dies or a classmate dies.

I was amazed my first year teaching at just how much ninth grade boys need to touch each other. Some children might Understand the gravity of this and have self control, but certainly not the majority. .

There is no way schools should open unless we take some serious steps to curve this now.


I will say though, it is telling that the week businesses (by asking for a national mask mandate) and financial institutions (I think it was Goldman Sacs that said mask were the only thing that could save the economy) start to step up and demand change it seems like we might actually see some movement.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 10, 2020, 11:22:44 AM
Yeah, I was reading something that suggested that the downsides of interrupting childrenís education and development outweigh the chance they could spread Covid. It read like propaganda.
My understanding is that that is connected to the need for support services like nutrition (for some students, school lunch is their only substantial meal) and detecting abuse that could go unspotted if children are keep at home.  As long as schools put plans in place to continue suppprting vulnerable students, then there really isn't a need to open schools for other unnamed "health benefits".
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on July 10, 2020, 11:48:32 AM
Yeah, I was reading something that suggested that the downsides of interrupting childrenís education and development outweigh the chance they could spread Covid. It read like propaganda.
My understanding is that that is connected to the need for support services like nutrition (for some students, school lunch is their only substantial meal) and detecting abuse that could go unspotted if children are keep at home.  As long as schools put plans in place to continue suppprting vulnerable students, then there really isn't a need to open schools for other unnamed "health benefits".
This is so spot on. Yes, domestic abuse and other similar issues have been on the rise, and that is terrible. However, claiming that returning kids to school to prevent is like putting a bandaid on a 4 inch hatchet wound, you're barely minimizing anything.

But, its in lock step with the anti-lockdown folks' playbook. I can't tell you how many people I know who were keen to shout out about how Hilary deserves to have Trump grab her by the p****, how illegal families deserved to be separated because they shouldn't have come here illegally, and now they're waiving the flag against domestic abuse??? C'mon now, no body's buying that, especially when people who have devoted their lives to combating domestic abuse don't agree with using it as a reason to open schools back up.

With all this time off, you'd think some of these sudden fighters against domestic violence could've leant a hand to the organizations that try to snuff out the root causes of it.

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 12:55:54 PM
Yeah, I was reading something that suggested that the downsides of interrupting childrenís education and development outweigh the chance they could spread Covid. It read like propaganda.
My understanding is that that is connected to the need for support services like nutrition (for some students, school lunch is their only substantial meal) and detecting abuse that could go unspotted if children are keep at home.  As long as schools put plans in place to continue suppprting vulnerable students, then there really isn't a need to open schools for other unnamed "health benefits".

Yeah, but as you point out a lot of those vital programs can be continued safely. It was great to see nutrition services extended over the summer this year, because that is generally not what happens.

The article I read also talked about the fact that children are typically not the vector which through which covid is brought into homes, and they use that day to say it should be safe to open schools. But that data was collected at a time when schools were closed. It ignores the fact that Schools being closed make most kids worlds pretty small, giving them far fewer chances to become infected. So yeah, itís not surprising that kids arenít bringing the illness home, because they arenít even leaving home.  It is naive to think that would remain the same if schools open though.

That kind of manipulation of data is why I was saying it reads like propaganda.

Schools do so much more for kids than they get credit for, but one thing they canít do is keep airborne disease from spreading like wildfire once it comes through the door.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 10, 2020, 01:21:02 PM
Yeah, but as you point out a lot of those vital programs can be continued safely.
Definitely.
I can't actually think of any support service that would require or justify opening a school and packing it full of students and teachers.
My children's emotional and social well-being (the buzzwords of hurry-up-and-open) is better served by avoiding exposure to a deadly virus.  I'm ranting again.  Sorry.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 10, 2020, 01:26:06 PM
I feel like getting sick and possibly a slow painful death would be worse than anything, but thatís just me. As a nation, the leaders are hoping it just goes away and expects everyone to be onboard. Thatís just how I see it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on July 10, 2020, 02:27:11 PM
The ostrich effect.  I'm totally disgusted with what goes on and have resigned myself to the fact that all I can do is stay masked, stay clean, and stay away.  I don't even bother with the news anymore.  At least here everyone has an intelligent and informed approach.  There's a whole truckload of dumba$$es out there.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on July 10, 2020, 04:08:43 PM
I feel like getting sick and possibly a slow painful death would be worse than anything, but thatís just me.
Oh man, that killed me  ;D

I read recently that the "Sleepy Joe" nick-name isn't getting the same traction of any of the other gems the president has coined.  My take is that after all the chaos, a nap sound really nice to most Americans.   

On a lighter note, I have been enjoying late night TV adds for masks with copper or zinc wire woven into the fabric.  No mention of what that does, just "the healing power of copper...".  You know....copper, right?  Guess I'll save some dough and put a few pennies in my mouth.   
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: mjg on July 10, 2020, 04:15:07 PM
On a lighter note, I have been enjoying late night TV adds for masks with copper or zinc wire woven into the fabric.  No mention of what that does, just "the healing power of copper...".  You know....copper, right?  Guess I'll save some dough and put a few pennies in my mouth.

I'm sure we all have a few spare PCBs lying around, why not strap them to our faces?  They contain the magic of copper, right?

Ahh dammit, now I'm tempted to build a pedal into a face mask, just for giggles.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on July 10, 2020, 05:28:44 PM
Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

Again, I know it's probably difficult, but I get nervous that the quality of discussion heads downhill when people start mentioning politicians by name.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 05:36:57 PM
On a lighter note, I have been enjoying late night TV adds for masks with copper or zinc wire woven into the fabric.  No mention of what that does, just "the healing power of copper...".  You know....copper, right?  Guess I'll save some dough and put a few pennies in my mouth.

I'm sure we all have a few spare PCBs lying around, why not strap them to our faces?  They contain the magic of copper, right?

Ahh dammit, now I'm tempted to build a pedal into a face mask, just for giggles.

... woven from only the finest unicorn hairs...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 10, 2020, 05:44:42 PM
Now that you mention copper, I'm surprised stuff like colloidal silver hasn't been hitting the headlines.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on July 10, 2020, 05:57:20 PM
I think if people made an airtight mask out of copper and wore it for a little bit they probably would not get COVID.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 06:05:16 PM
Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

Again, I know it's probably difficult, but I get nervous that the quality of discussion heads downhill when people start mentioning politicians by name.

With all due respect, I couldnít disagree more. This stuff is important to peopleís lives and having place to calmly discuss it with people here is a respite from the news, not a reiteration of it.

It seems to me a lot of days that people need to actually have civil discussions about what is going on in the news. People donít synthesize information as well from just hearing it. Discussions help people process information and helps to clear up misconceptions about things.

I donít think itís healthy to avoid talking about things because you disagree. Seems to me if we want to make things better weíre going to have to figure out how to talk to each other about difficult subjects.

We seem to be able to do that here. I appreciate that about this place.

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on July 10, 2020, 07:17:51 PM
Update in the bean household: my wife has been sent back to WFH for the next two weeks at minimum. They gave the option to employees to do this or stay in the office. Not sure what this means for the company's future. Also, some counties in Tenn. have decided to start the school year as online but they haven't made a decision in Sumner county yet.

So, everyone is back at home again for now. In unrelated news, I am available for adoption to a good home. Require minimal feeding and watering and only occasional bathroom breaks.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 10, 2020, 07:29:01 PM
Update in the bean household: my wife has been sent back to WFH for the next two weeks at minimum. They gave the option to employees to do this or stay in the office. Not sure what this means for the company's future. Also, some counties in Tenn. have decided to start the school year as online but they haven't made a decision in Sumner county yet.

So, everyone is back at home again for now. In unrelated news, I am available for adoption to a good home. Require minimal feeding and watering and only occasional bathroom breaks.

Well my daughter's house sitting for a number of months so we have a spare bedroom but... border's still closed and doesn't appear many up here are in any hurry for that to change, we got us a wall.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on July 10, 2020, 07:30:28 PM
That's funny!!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on July 10, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
Update in the bean household: my wife has been sent back to WFH for the next two weeks at minimum. They gave the option to employees to do this or stay in the office. Not sure what this means for the company's future. Also, some counties in Tenn. have decided to start the school year as online but they haven't made a decision in Sumner county yet.

So, everyone is back at home again for now. In unrelated news, I am available for adoption to a good home. Require minimal feeding and watering and only occasional bathroom breaks.

Well my daughter's house sitting for a number of months so we have a spare bedroom but... border's still closed and doesn't appear many up here are in any hurry for that to change, we got us a wall.
dave
...... can poutine be shipped through the mail? I'm having withdrawals ......

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 10, 2020, 07:33:25 PM
Update in the bean household: my wife has been sent back to WFH for the next two weeks at minimum. They gave the option to employees to do this or stay in the office. Not sure what this means for the company's future. Also, some counties in Tenn. have decided to start the school year as online but they haven't made a decision in Sumner county yet.

So, everyone is back at home again for now. In unrelated news, I am available for adoption to a good home. Require minimal feeding and watering and only occasional bathroom breaks.
We work from home, so weíre here all the time. Daughters room is free all week and every other weekend. Desk with soldering iron is already in there, and, Iím only an hour away!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 10, 2020, 07:40:34 PM
Haha haha!!!

Dave has won the internet folks.


 Time to shut it down
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on July 10, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Update in the bean household: my wife has been sent back to WFH for the next two weeks at minimum. They gave the option to employees to do this or stay in the office. Not sure what this means for the company's future. Also, some counties in Tenn. have decided to start the school year as online but they haven't made a decision in Sumner county yet.

So, everyone is back at home again for now. In unrelated news, I am available for adoption to a good home. Require minimal feeding and watering and only occasional bathroom breaks.

Well my daughter's house sitting for a number of months so we have a spare bedroom but... border's still closed and doesn't appear many up here are in any hurry for that to change, we got us a wall.
dave

Where I live, the economy is taking a huge hit because of the closed border. I'm glad the border is closed, but the tourism here is largely based around American's coming up here to head out to the fly in fishing and hunting camps. They're all shut down, because there is nobody coming in to use them.

All I know is that the fish are gonna be in plentiful supply next year and they'll be bigger than average.

Also of note, I regularly catch 2-3 foot Northern Pike (we call them Jackfish) on an average day of fishing. Walleye here can be 1.5-2 foot pretty easy.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on July 11, 2020, 01:05:54 AM
Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

I agree, in general, with the sediment, this is a place to think about pedals, and I enjoy that.  However, the politics in the US are more extreme than they have been in 50+ years, right now. It's nice to check in with a group of smart people and get a bearing, occasionally.  You can't get that on most of the internet and I'm glad to get it here. I think folks here are respectful and thoughtful; discussions can be actually productive, which doesn't happen enough.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 11, 2020, 07:17:49 AM
If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon itís like the purge and thatís what weíre looking to avoid.  Now Iím going to go strap PCBs to my face.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 11, 2020, 07:27:44 AM
If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon itís like the purge and thatís what weíre looking to avoid.  Now Iím going to go strap PCBs to my face.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just be careful Jimi, I know youíll be tempted to use phasers, but compressors will probably have a better seal and be more effect. I donít want to see you turn out like that guy who stuck a bunch of Rats to his face.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 11, 2020, 07:31:58 AM
If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon itís like the purge and thatís what weíre looking to avoid.  Now Iím going to go strap PCBs to my face.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just be careful Jimi, I know youíll be tempted to use phasers, but compressors will probably have a better seal and be more effect. I donít want to see you turn out like that guy who stuck a bunch of Rats to his face.
Ooohhh good point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 11, 2020, 11:35:57 AM
According to this article there's $10 billion cdn in just cross border retail sales in the area i live in, west end of Lake Ontario.

Article (early June) by two U.S. profs at universities in New York state.

COVID-19 response highlights major differences between U.S. and Canada: U.S. profs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/american-canadian-covid-1.5596226
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: midwayfair on July 11, 2020, 01:03:18 PM
Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

I agree, in general, with the sediment, this is a place to think about pedals, and I enjoy that.  However, the politics in the US are more extreme than they have been in 50+ years, right now. It's nice to check in with a group of smart people and get a bearing, occasionally.  You can't get that on most of the internet and I'm glad to get it here. I think folks here are respectful and thoughtful; discussions can be actually productive, which doesn't happen enough.

Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

Again, I know it's probably difficult, but I get nervous that the quality of discussion heads downhill when people start mentioning politicians by name.

With all due respect, I couldnít disagree more. This stuff is important to peopleís lives and having place to calmly discuss it with people here is a respite from the news, not a reiteration of it.

It seems to me a lot of days that people need to actually have civil discussions about what is going on in the news. People donít synthesize information as well from just hearing it. Discussions help people process information and helps to clear up misconceptions about things.

I donít think itís healthy to avoid talking about things because you disagree. Seems to me if we want to make things better weíre going to have to figure out how to talk to each other about difficult subjects.

We seem to be able to do that here. I appreciate that about this place.

I just want to be clear: Both of you think that what follows is a calm discussion of the politics of COVID-19, and engendering a civil discussion?

He's obviously in over his head and needs to resign. I think he knows by now he's not going to get reelected, but instead of doing the honorable thing, he's just going to go into smash-and-grab mode and try to do as much as he can for himself & his friends to best position himself for post-presidency life. One that he desperately hopes does not include prison time, and ideally would involve running his own Fox News alternative network so he can continue spouting nonsense.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 11, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
Yup, I do.

Sounds like one person stating their opinion. Heís not being disrespectful of anybody else on here, he isnít judging anyone for disagreeing with him, he is saying how he feels. Itís up to us to decide if we feel the need to engage in a civil discussion about it from there.

Donít get me wrong things can get out of hand, but thatís more when people make things personal by insulting each other and whatnot. Itís about being respectful of each other and recognizing that while we might not always agree about stuff that doesnít mean we canít live together.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 11, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Thereís an interesting article in the Washington post today about schools in parts of the world that have begun to open, or opened to finish the year in late spring.

It sounds like overall, places that are able to manage the problem well are able to manage having schools open without huge issues. It doesnít sound like there is a ton of data on it right now, but Iíd say it sounds promising for areas that have things are under control overall. There are a couple of caveats though, like some of the places having success are saying full classes are 13 students, which are tiny in size compared to a lot of places in the states.

Unfortunately it seems like the consensus is still that places that are having problems controlling the outbreak should not open schools until things are more under control. 

I was talking to a friend who is a teacher today, he said his districts plan is that if a student from a school test positive then the whole school will close down and ask people to quarantine. To me that just sounds like a plan to keep the schools closed all year.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 11, 2020, 04:19:56 PM
Honestly, I think opening schools is asking for trouble. Weíve tried so hard to stay away from people and keep our family safe, mama and all. So the sending our kids to school so that they may or may not carry it home is a bit unnerving.

Hamilton county is tossing the idea around of A. Homeschool B. Staying home and learning until itís safe or C. Send them to school. Parents may have all 3 as an option. Weíre pushing for #2. My ex so far seems to think that Covid is no big deal and that the flu is worse because thatís what her doctor told her. So, anyway, stay safe!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 13, 2020, 08:54:38 AM
Re: the dip into politics, if people (especially mods or beans) concur that it should be off-limits in this thread then I'm not going to push back. But here's my case: At this point, four months after USA's lockdown/quarantine began, and with numbers now higher than ever, and 35 pages into this thread, I don't think it's productive to talk about COVID while tip-toeing around the political aspect of it.

States have tried (to varying degrees) everything they can, and aside from New York who has a charismatic leader that people listen to, the states are unable to make progress on their own. The reasonable and rational governor of state X says masks are good and we should wear them, but the White House says or implies they're dumb, so the governor can't get half his people to listen to his word over the president's and the problem persists.

At the end of it, there's one person standing in the way of the USA gaining ground against COVID, because so many citizens take their orders directly from him and bypass the advice of those who are closer to home. And this person is behind the following:

 - "I told them, slow the testing down"
 - Refusal to wear a mask or show support for those who do, until this past weekend
 - Putting pressure on GA and FL to be the first states to reopen back in May
 - Sitting on $14 billion granted by Congress several months ago that has so far gone un-spent
 - And the reports that he was briefed about COVID late last year, November 2019 at the latest, but did nothing.

So when I said he needs to resign, I didn't mean I disagree with him politically on this or that. I mean that by this stage, he owns the COVID disaster. It's a public health crisis that he is still in charge, and we won't begin to see improvement until he is out. No one is able to step up, take the reins and fill the void of his leadership - not governors and mayors, not Congress - because he is actively pushing in the wrong direction and has too much direct influence.

Again, I'll leave it there if this is bothersome, and I certainly am not trying to stir up anything. But as Matmosphere said, this isn't in response or disagreement with anyone or any sentiments that have been shared so far. Arguing/debating is another thing entirely and I'm not eager to bring that about in any form.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on July 13, 2020, 09:31:57 AM
I'm pretty much on board with everything Kevin has stated and I don't see much that's inflammatory. There are some objective truths in the handling of COVID by Trump and the Republican leadership and they are harsh.

But, to Jon's point I think this discussion on the this forum is better served by keeping focus on personal impact and the impact on our communities and societies. We'll be having this discussion for the next couple of years and there will be plenty of time to reflect on the long term consequences of the aenemic response to COVID here in the US.

To that end, I'm reading a lot about a huge housing exodus that's about to happen. Lots of missed mortgage and rent payments and coming evictions. That is kind of terrifying.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 13, 2020, 09:37:01 AM
Yeah, the whole housing exodus isnít going to help anything for sure. Iím afraid that it will make things worse for the virus and the homeless population as the will go hand in hand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on July 13, 2020, 10:08:31 AM

That said, my main concern is the nexus of political issues and health here. Many of the measures enacted to contain the spread I believe will prove to backfire. In many cases, health-seeking behaviors (e.g., going to the doctor or hospital) are not being promoted. Encouragingly, though, there have been great moments of communication and cooperation and we're seeing really impressive treatment and vaccine development.

Advice remains the same as any time: ensure youíre practicing good health habits and focus on preventative care. Get your information from reputable sources and learn about this (and other) pathogens. I think this should also be a moment of reflection for people to evaluate the prioritization of health preparedness and response systemsóboth in their country and internationally. Outbreaks like this really demonstrate the connectedness of the global community and should show the importance of these systems and investment in medicine.

This seemed important to quote. This was from 28 February. We (both the US and the world) missed our opportunity to contain and eradicate this virus. It's true that it's very tenacious and the as we've learned more, we've found that it has quite the burden of disease. However, there's been a tremendous failure for public policy and public health to work together to truly combat this. The immediate effects have been devastating, and we'll be dealing with the long-term fallout for decades.

The troubling thing is that this is not the worst disease that could've happened. When we think of calamities, we often like to think of 'the big one' or near misses. Remember Hurricane Ivan? It was followed a year later by Katrina. This is not necessarily 'the big one'ówe have to start to truly take this stuff seriously on local, federal, and global levels.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on July 14, 2020, 12:34:54 PM
This is not necessarily 'the big one'ówe have to start to truly take this stuff seriously on local, federal, and global levels.

This has been a "bubble gum" trial run, and we failed miserably. USA leadership terrifies me with their gross incompetence and willful idiocy.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on July 14, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
My view these days is that as the middle class we're deemed a disposable commodity.  Lots more where we came from.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 15, 2020, 06:55:41 AM
I'm scared.  I'm not trying to convince anyone else that they should be scared too.  Being afraid is not my expression of a political view.  It is my body's response to trauma and chronic stress.  I have two immediate family members in Florida, which is not helping.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 15, 2020, 08:26:47 AM
Ebk, itís understandable. This is scary shit.

Try to focus on the stuff you can control. And be sure to talk to people when you feel overwhelmed, internalizing that stuff will not help, and letís face it nobody is going to question your fears right now.

Face mask, hand washing, and social distancing have been helping us all stay safe so stay vigilant. Donít let your friends and family mistake the fact that they havenít gotten sick so far as an excuse to ease of best practices.

Take care man, next month may not be any better, but we will get there.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on July 15, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
+1 on the above. More people should be scared but the only control you have in an uncontrollable situation is personal protection.  On the plus side we won't be getting the flu or a cold anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on July 15, 2020, 12:46:17 PM
+1 on the above

I've been in a funk recently as the reality sets in that this is going to be life, likely for a long while.  Things in California loosened up for a bit and it seemed like it was going to be more bearable but still safe.  The school districts were planning a hybrid schooling system that the kids were looking forward to.  But with the recent surge, that's not going to work.  I'm trying to figure out a new work from home schedule that will free my mornings up to help the kids with school work.  The last part of the previous school year was not great. 

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on July 15, 2020, 12:58:23 PM
On a lighter note! The US could get everyone to sign on to the mask wearing if they just had the right marketing; it needs to be cool.  They had it all figured out in the 80s.

(https://nothingbutnostalgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/M.A.S.K.-toys.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 15, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
On a lighter note! The US could get everyone to sign on to the mask wearing if they just had the right marketing; it needs to be cool.  They had it all figured out in the 80s.

Or this:
(https://i.redd.it/y9805zd0yla51.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 15, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/LEIOc22BiuSgU/giphy.gif)

This mask is where itís at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: MTK on July 15, 2020, 01:56:53 PM
This is my favorite so far. Any other Skyrim fans here?

(https://i.imgur.com/Uzy8IQz.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 15, 2020, 02:45:17 PM
On a lighter note! The US could get everyone to sign on to the mask wearing if they just had the right marketing; it needs to be cool.  They had it all figured out in the 80s.

(https://nothingbutnostalgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/M.A.S.K.-toys.jpg)

If you give me a motorcycle that changes into a helicopter Iíll wear whatever you want me too.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on July 15, 2020, 03:38:25 PM
My wife told that me that another mom she knows was "mask shamed" in Lowe's the other day. That's right... An old red neck white guy scolded a women in public... For wearing a mask
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on July 15, 2020, 06:06:15 PM
No shortage of stupid. Really doesn't seem to be much of an issue around here. Downtown Chicago bars...that's a different story.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 15, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Walmart is about to try to have a masks-required policy.  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 15, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
Walmart is about to try to have a masks-required policy.  ::)

All they have to do is not let people in. There are several other stores doing it or starting to do it next week. Kroger, Costco, Best Buy, Kohlís Are some of the largest ones.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 15, 2020, 07:00:47 PM
Anyone spotted any luchador masks in use?

I've played far too much Saints Row 3...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 15, 2020, 07:43:46 PM
My wife told that me that another mom she knows was "mask shamed" in Lowe's the other day. That's right... An old red neck white guy scolded a women in public... For wearing a mask

'Redneck' interpretation of 'land of the free'?
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on July 15, 2020, 09:16:45 PM
All they have to do is not let people in.

Every store that is open in my state requires masks for entry. Grocery store, hardware store, liquor store, Wal-Mart...everything.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 15, 2020, 09:58:30 PM
All they have to do is not let people in.

Every store that is open in my state requires masks for entry. Grocery store, hardware store, liquor store, Wal-Mart...everything.

Good for them, imo thatís a really smart way to do it.

Are people making a big fuss about it? I saw a guy berate at the people at the local Trader Joeís because they only let a certain number of people in at a time. It was pretty terrible to watch. I think they ended up having to call the cops on the guy.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on July 15, 2020, 10:26:43 PM
Are people making a big fuss about it?

No, not at all. Masks have been required here by executive order (governor) since early April. It's just what you do now. Everybody has masks in their cars, ready to go. There is always the random mouth-breather idiot that says shit like "masks are tyranny!!!!11!", but it's not the norm.

Actually, you're likely to get socially shamed for NOT wearing a mask.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on July 16, 2020, 01:45:36 AM
My state's governor originally forbade Cities/Counties from enacting mask ordinances. Thankfully he backtracked on that when we started topping 3k new cases a day (which has been everyday for more than a month now. Wheeee.)

My town is one of those with mask rules in place, and.... yeah I hear people LOUDLY complaining about it at times. Not super common, at least not the places I regularly shop, but it is really disheartening. Home depot was the worst of it so far, with some guy at the front door yelling at everyone who was walking by him. Ugh.

In similar news, Georgia's governor just enacted a similar thing today, cities and counties cannot force mask wearing rules. Is this really the time for this nonsense?  :-\
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: harryklippton on July 16, 2020, 05:29:55 AM
Saw this sign the other day at the chainsaw dealer. I didn't go inside but my wife said none of the employees were wearing masks. Also passed a house on the way there that had a giant spray painted sign in its yard that said "it's not a mask, it's a muzzle" on one side and "Fauci is a sociopath" on the other.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 16, 2020, 07:36:46 AM
Yeah, itís all a hoax, there arenít really millions of people falling dying and the earth is flat......./rant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 16, 2020, 07:38:44 AM
The troubling thing is that this is not the worst disease that could've happened. When we think of calamities, we often like to think of 'the big one' or near misses. Remember Hurricane Ivan? It was followed a year later by Katrina. This is not necessarily 'the big one'ówe have to start to truly take this stuff seriously on local, federal, and global levels.

Also passed a house on the way there that had a giant spray painted sign in its yard that said "it's not a mask, it's a muzzle" on one side and "Fauci is a sociopath" on the other.

All this is making me realize the USA is utterly doomed if anything worse or more dire comes along. As benny_profane said earlier, COVID-19 isn't anywhere near as bad as a pandemic could be, not to mention there are other possible threats besides pandemics - and yet even still, we have so much of our population exhibiting reactive defiance against all forms of well-meaning advice. A few weeks ago we even had a Senator (and a doctor, no less!) who said "we shouldn't presume that a group of experts somehow knows what's best for everyone" - in the context of talking about schools reopening.

At this point I feel like we could still get united against a geopolitical threat, e.g. 9/11, but anything inhuman like a pandemic or climate change - especially something that requires swift action and we only get one chance - we're going to lose.

Pouring money into education should be our #1 priority once the dust settles from all the emergencies we're dealing with. It's the foundation of everything. We need debate, disagreement, pushback, challenging of norms - that's healthy and necessary for society. But if one side of the discourse is uneducated and proud of it (because education is liberal, schools brainwash people or whatever) then discourse is toxic and actively causes harm.

That's what we are seeing now with masks, which should be the most uncontroversial, Pascal's-Wager-esque thing ever but has somehow become a hill that people are willing to die on. Pun very much intended.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 16, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
Look, in a lot of ways I agree with some of this stuff, but part of me sees this mask thing and other divisive issues right now and thinks that while there is a small amount of the population is very vocally against it, say 15%, Probably three times that number is very strongly for it. The other forty percent or whatever might lean one way or the other, And if there was some positive unifying force saying ďwear mask, this shit is seriousĒ they absolutely would. 

While that 15% used to be a larger group, they were always ashamed to speak up because they knew they were wrong. Twenty years of being able to chat online freely and anonymously has emboldened them to become very outspoken.

It bugs me because the USís flaws are front and center in this and I donít know what youíd think from the outside looking in.
Title: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 16, 2020, 09:13:28 AM
And now, the CDC will be bypassed and hospitals will report to a small government contracted firm???? How the actual F#%k does this make sense???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 16, 2020, 09:39:06 AM
Look, in a lot of ways I agree with some of this stuff, but part of me sees this mask thing and other divisive issues right now and thinks that while there is a small amount of the population is very vocally against it, say 15%, Probably three times that number is very strongly for it. The other forty percent or whatever might lean one way or the other, And if there was some positive unifying force saying ďwear mask, this shit is seriousĒ they absolutely would. 

While that 15% used to be a larger group, they were always ashamed to speak up because they knew they were wrong. Twenty years of being able to chat online freely and anonymously has emboldened them to become very outspoken.

It bugs me because the USís flaws are front and center in this and I donít know what youíd think from the outside looking in.

That is absolutely true, I think if we had a unified message from our leadership then it would make a huge difference in discourse. But the dissent among leaders is definitely making it worse and giving citizens social license to do & say things that would normally get them shunned. The same way racism has been on the rise, at least visibly - I don't think people aren't more racist today than they were five or ten years ago, they're just less shy about it now because there is more social license to be that way and they are less abberant.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 16, 2020, 11:11:34 AM
And now, the CDC will be bypassed and hospitals will report to a small government contracted firm???? How the actual F#%k does this make sense???
I really hope hiding unfavorable data wasn't the goal (such a plan would very likely backfire).  However, this move certainly hides data temporarily and could be used to somewhat manage the timing of its release.  It did make me think of the logic of slowing down testing to lower case numbers.  I'm guessing one of the side effects will be making correlation between test results and hospitalization  tougher to derive by the public.  We'll know more when we see how publicly available the new data is once the new system is up and running (the data is already gone from the CDC website).
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: NorthCoast on July 16, 2020, 11:17:49 AM
According to the Florida DOH, nearly one-third of children tested for COVID in Florida are positive.

Here's the Florida DOH data:

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

And an article:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-pbc-health-director-covid-children-20200714-xcdall2tsrd4riim2nwokvmsxm-story.html
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 16, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
And now, the CDC will be bypassed and hospitals will report to a small government contracted firm???? How the actual F#%k does this make sense???
I really hope hiding unfavorable data wasn't the goal (such a plan would very likely backfire).  However, this move certainly hides data temporarily and could be used to somewhat manage the timing of its release.  It did make me think of the logic of slowing down testing to lower case numbers.  I'm guessing one of the side effects will be making correlation between test results and hospitalization  tougher to derive by the public.  We'll know more when we see how publicly available the new data is once the new system is up and running (the data is already gone from the CDC website).
Yeah, uh....it was said at a news conference that using Covid was not wanted an excuse not to return to school. I canít help but think it ties in. As a father of a school age daughter, it scares the hell out of me. Iíd started waking up through your the night with mild panic attacks. Just enough to jolt me and make my heart race. This is just getting out of hand. Not recognizing actual science???

I tried to make that as neutral as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 16, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
Mask problem solved, starting Monday, Walmart will require all customers to be masked. Walmart has created a new position, "health ambassadors" are to be trained to greet & remind customers to put on their mask. (Is this what Ivanka Trump was talking about?)

ďAmbassadors will receive special training to help make the process as smooth as possible for customers,íí Walmart said, and ďwill work with those who show up at a store without a face covering to find a solution that works for everyone.Ē

There, smooth sailing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/business/walmart-requiring-masks.html

Last i heard, the city where i live in Ontario, Monday is suppose to be the start of mandatory masks in enclosed public spaces, if city council approves it but with all the knuckle draggers there, will this increase my re-election chances, not holding my breath. At least a lot of businesses already have the policy in place.

In further mask news in eastern Ontario yesterday,a mask refusal, confrontation at grocery store devolved into the 73 year old perp being shot and killed by police. Details sketchy at this point.

If i can't walk to where i need to go i take a bus so bought my mask in March for travel. Fogged up my glasses something awful so started using double sided garment tape along the top edge to seal it to my face, problem solved. Masks have beeen mandatory on public transit for awhile now but it's not enforced, just periodic prerecorded announcements saying mandatory face masks.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 16, 2020, 11:49:14 AM
I tried to make that as neutral as possible.
I'm doing my best at this too.  It gets harder when I want to talk about my anxiety to not say the things that trigger it.  That why I wrote what I did a little while ago (my anxiety is not the same as my political viewpoint).  My wife keeps trying to plan a mini vacation for this summer.  I keep telling her I'm too afraid to help plan such a thing at this point.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 16, 2020, 11:51:37 AM
I tried to make that as neutral as possible.
I'm doing my best at this too.  It gets harder when I want to talk about my anxiety to not say the things that trigger it.  That why I wrote what I did a little while ago (my anxiety is not the same as my political viewpoint).  My wife keeps trying to plan a mini vacation for this summer.  I keep telling her I'm too afraid to help plan such a thing at this point.
I know what youíre saying. We put off our vacation until the fall temporarily. Weíre afraid to try to go anywhere at this point. Plus the handling of this pandemic just makes me so mad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on July 16, 2020, 12:01:57 PM
And now, the CDC will be bypassed and hospitals will report to a small government contracted firm???? How the actual F#%k does this make sense???
I really hope hiding unfavorable data wasn't the goal (such a plan would very likely backfire).  However, this move certainly hides data temporarily and could be used to somewhat manage the timing of its release.  It did make me think of the logic of slowing down testing to lower case numbers.  I'm guessing one of the side effects will be making correlation between test results and hospitalization  tougher to derive by the public.  We'll know more when we see how publicly available the new data is once the new system is up and running (the data is already gone from the CDC website).
Yeah, uh....it was said at a news conference that using Covid was not wanted an excuse not to return to school. I can’t help but think it ties in. As a father of a school age daughter, it scares the hell out of me. I’d started waking up through your the night with mild panic attacks. Just enough to jolt me and make my heart race. This is just getting out of hand. Not recognizing actual science???

I tried to make that as neutral as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hospitalization figures and related metrics are already being diverted (and are not published anywhere). Other historical data submitted directly to the CDC is still accessible. With the ousting of several senior public health officials in certain states, a very public fight over reporting metrics in another, and widespread mischaracterization of CoD and attributable/proximate factors in coroners' reports (remember that coroners are elected and do not require a medical license whereas medical examiners appointed and do have to have a medical license), I think that the motivation here is quite clear. Instead of relying on a premier public health institute with established practices and relationships with medical facilities, an entirely new system is being implemented because it'll be more accurate and efficient?

To be clear: This is a public health emergency, this is a natural threat, this is a virus. Viruses are investigated by scientists: virologists, immunologists, microbiologists, and other specialists. There has been a remarkable century of development in public health: fields of epidemiology, health systems programming, health delivery, monitoring and surveillance, biostatistical analysis, etc. We have developed labs designed for the studying of viruses and the development of vaccines/treatments. We have protocols in place to do research safely and efficiently. We have developed manufacturing and distribution networks to produce and administer vaccines and we have health facilities and trained professionals to treat the sick. We have public health systems in place to aid in the effective identification and monitoring of as well as the response to threats. Individuals dedicate their lives to (bio)ethical understanding of equitable health delivery. We've constructed vast information sharing systems to provide global cooperation. We have health delivery mechanisms to provide primary, secondary, and tertiary care. We have emergency response systems.

We also have the politicization of science and education. We have a movement of contrarianism that identifies science and facts as opinions that are not measured nor observed but rather fabricated. We have false dichotomies. We have emotional arguments take primacy over sound logic and reasoned debate. We have changed what news is: it is no longer a reporting of events and measurable figures by those who understood the gravity of their position; we have opinion and bias presented as Truth. We have ad revenue on information sources. We have a systems that needs to have people scared and angry and distracted.

And we have consequences.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 16, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
And now, the CDC will be bypassed and hospitals will report to a small government contracted firm???? How the actual F#%k does this make sense???
I really hope hiding unfavorable data wasn't the goal (such a plan would very likely backfire).  However, this move certainly hides data temporarily and could be used to somewhat manage the timing of its release.  It did make me think of the logic of slowing down testing to lower case numbers.  I'm guessing one of the side effects will be making correlation between test results and hospitalization  tougher to derive by the public.  We'll know more when we see how publicly available the new data is once the new system is up and running (the data is already gone from the CDC website).
Yeah, uh....it was said at a news conference that using Covid was not wanted an excuse not to return to school. I canít help but think it ties in. As a father of a school age daughter, it scares the hell out of me. Iíd started waking up through your the night with mild panic attacks. Just enough to jolt me and make my heart race. This is just getting out of hand. Not recognizing actual science???

I tried to make that as neutral as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hospitalization figures and related metrics are already being diverted (and are not published anywhere). Other historical data submitted directly to the CDC is still accessible. With the ousting of several senior public health officials in certain states, a very public fight over reporting metrics in another, and widespread mischaracterization of CoD and attributable/proximate factors in coroners' reports (remember that coroners are elected and do not require a medical license whereas medical examiners appointed and do have to have a medical license), I think that the motivation here is quite clear. Instead of relying on a premier public health institute with established practices and relationships with medical facilities, an entirely new system is being implemented because it'll be more accurate and efficient?

To be clear: This is a public health emergency, this is a natural threat, this is a virus. Viruses are investigated by scientists: virologists, immunologists, microbiologists, and other specialists. There has been a remarkable century of development in public health: fields of epidemiology, health systems programming, health delivery, monitoring and surveillance, biostatistical analysis, etc. We have developed labs designed for the studying of viruses and the development of vaccines/treatments. We have protocols in place to do research safely and efficiently. We have developed manufacturing and distribution networks to produce and administer vaccines and we have health facilities and trained professionals to treat the sick. We have public health systems in place to aid in the effective identification and monitoring of as well as the response to threats. Individuals dedicate their lives to (bio)ethical understanding of equitable health delivery. We've constructed vast information sharing systems to provide global cooperation. We have health delivery mechanisms to provide primary, secondary, and tertiary care. We have emergency response systems.

We also have the politicization of science and education. We have a movement of contrarianism that identifies science and facts as opinions that are not measured nor observed but rather fabricated. We have false dichotomies. We have emotion arguments take primacy over sound logic and reasoned debate. We have change what news is: it is no longer a reporting of events and measurable figures by those who understood the gravity of their position; we have opinion and bias presented as Truth. We have ad revenue on information sources. We have a systems that needs to have people scared and angry and distracted.

And we have consequences.
So true, and unfortunately right. The consequences donít outweigh the pros when itís your loved one that doesnít make it. We shouldnít be made to ďjust live with itĒ, and it sure as hell wonít ďjust go awayĒ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jkokura on July 16, 2020, 03:18:29 PM
At the risk of perhaps stepping over the political boundaries that separate my Canadian experience with (the majority here) the US experience, I wonder sometimes at the origin of the US as a country. A major portion of the attitude of what the US is founded upon is rebellion. The very nature of the US culture is based around the idea of independence as the highest ideal, about the rejection of even appropriate authority at times, and the very origin of the nation was in rebellion against authority. The fact that the Confederate group in the Civil War were called 'rebels' and that the Rebel title is one that many bear proudly certainly bears out in terms of the current reaction amongst some.

I guess I'm not calling it negative, because appropriate rebellion has led to good things. However, I think it's an interesting observation that what's so highly prized at times can also be an achilles heal at other times.

Here in Saskatchewan, we just saw our record number today. We have slowly been opening, and we just saw a nearly %5 jump in total cases in a single day. Not good, but overall we are still at less than 1000 cases for our 1.1 million population.

Jacob
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 16, 2020, 05:41:25 PM
Well, it does remind me that, when the British Empire was approaching the peak of worldwide power (where the sun never set on the Empire, as no matter where you were on the globe, it was daytime in the Empire somewhere...)

The American colonists were the ones to tell the King of this empire to sit on it and rotate. And got away with it :)

I guess I'm saying, Americans have always been anti-authoritarian, out-spoken, and prized stereotypes like the gruff, outside-the-system lone gunslinger cowboy. (Can Blade be argued to be a modern version of this?)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on July 16, 2020, 05:59:39 PM
Well, it does remind me that, when the British Empire was approaching the peak of worldwide power (where the sun never set on the Empire, as no matter where you were on the globe, it was daytime in the Empire somewhere...)

The American colonists were the ones to tell the King of this empire to sit on it and rotate. And got away with it :)

I guess I'm saying, Americans have always been anti-authoritarian, out-spoken, and prized stereotypes like the gruff, outside-the-system lone gunslinger cowboy. (Can Blade be argued to be a modern version of this?)
That's slightly revisionist... the original colonists left England as they thought we weren't authoritarian enough and fancied them some of that sweet religious persecution.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 16, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
And, now the governor of Georgia is actually suing the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, for issuing a mask requirement that violates his statewide "emergency" order to do nothing!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Aentons on July 16, 2020, 06:25:59 PM
This is the one to read if you are curious about US history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_United_States)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/Peopleshistoryzinn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 16, 2020, 07:36:55 PM
And, now the governor of Georgia is actually suing the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, for issuing a mask requirement that violates his statewide "emergency" order to do nothing!

For those of you not familiar with USA geography, Atlanta is the capital city of Georgia. So the governor of the state is suing the mayor of the largest city in that state.

One of them will most likely not get re-elected. I wonder which one?
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 17, 2020, 05:29:18 AM
And, now the governor of Georgia is actually suing the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, for issuing a mask requirement that violates his statewide "emergency" order to do nothing!

For those of you not familiar with USA geography, Atlanta is the capital city of Georgia. So the governor of the state is suing the mayor of the largest city in that state.

One of them will most likely not get re-elected. I wonder which one?

Kemp still has two more years unfortunately, so this won't be on voters' minds by the time it matters. But yes, hopefully by then we live in a post-Trump world and he's seen as a relic of an era that has passed.

He appears to have only enacted that policy because Trump had just been to Atlanta and didn't wear a mask, in defiance of Atlanta's mandate, which Atlanta then called him out for. So Kemp sort of retroactively said mask requirements aren't allowed, and then added that he hopes people will still choose to wear masks.

It brings to mind other great leaders such as FDR in WW2 when he suggested that people ration on their own but he didn't want to force anyone to do anything...  ::)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 17, 2020, 06:08:58 PM
Image search "ww2 USA home gardening poster" sometime. War propaganda got very weird...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on July 20, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Feeling sick yesterday and today.  Hoping it is just a cold.  Of course, how the hell could I get a cold with my paranoid hand washing and mask wearing?  Ugh!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 20, 2020, 09:42:15 AM
Get tested man, donít be another statistic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 20, 2020, 11:03:08 AM
Feeling sick yesterday and today.  Hoping it is just a cold.  Of course, how the hell could I get a cold with my paranoid hand washing and mask wearing?  Ugh!

100% with Jimi on this one. Go get a test. And hold up away from your family as much as you can, Iíve heard not sharing a bathroom if at all possible is a good idea.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 20, 2020, 11:27:30 AM
Feeling sick yesterday and today.  Hoping it is just a cold.  Of course, how the hell could I get a cold with my paranoid hand washing and mask wearing?  Ugh!

Iíve heard not sharing a bathroom if at all possible is a good idea.

Just a good all around general rule for any occasion!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 20, 2020, 11:28:00 AM
Feeling sick yesterday and today.  Hoping it is just a cold.  Of course, how the hell could I get a cold with my paranoid hand washing and mask wearing?  Ugh!

Iíve heard not sharing a bathroom if at all possible is a good idea.

Just a good all around general rule for any occasion!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Scruffie on July 20, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
Feeling sick yesterday and today.  Hoping it is just a cold.  Of course, how the hell could I get a cold with my paranoid hand washing and mask wearing?  Ugh!

Iíve heard not sharing a bathroom if at all possible is a good idea.

Just a good all around general rule for any occasion!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, not according to the NYC DOH https://gizmodo.com/new-york-city-to-sex-havers-1843983738  ;)

To EBK, try and remember that even if it is it, statistically you will likely be okay, extra stress wont do you or your mind any good. Do try and do some light exercise around the house if you feel up to it, it'll help with your immune system and hopefully relax you a bit. Yours - A fellow worrier.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 20, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Definitely not getting your deposit back after that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 23, 2020, 09:48:32 AM
Some interesting stats from NYT - the number of excess deaths in the USA this year vs. the statistical average of prior years:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

The "official" USA death toll for COVID is 145,000. Lots of people in our country have been pushing an idea that the official COVID count is inflated, pointing to a few examples of people who tested positive and then died in an unrelated way (e.g. a car accident) and were counted as a COVID death.

This NYT page shows that there have been around 190,000 excess deaths in the USA, for all causes, between March and July of this year. It seems reasonable to infer that this excess is mostly COVID-related since I don't know of any other mass-death epidemics during this window.

So the best-case scenario is that the official COVID numbers are accurate - but it's likely that the real number of deaths is a fair amount higher, as much as 30%. I imagine that number could be tightened up with some more in-depth data analysis. But I suspect that the excess deaths are the statistics that future historians will use to get a picture of the real COVID impact - not the official cases & deaths, which are heavily skewed by our deficient testing.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 23, 2020, 09:51:00 AM
I'm frustrated that there's no end in sight, and companies, schools, Presidents seem to just be board with it and decided to open back up.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on July 23, 2020, 09:57:35 AM
Some interesting stats from NYT - the number of excess deaths in the USA this year vs. the statistical average of prior years:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

The "official" USA death toll for COVID is 145,000. Lots of people in our country have been pushing an idea that the official COVID count is inflated, pointing to a few examples of people who tested positive and then died in an unrelated way (e.g. a car accident) and were counted as a COVID death.

This NYT page shows that there have been around 190,000 excess deaths in the USA, for all causes, between March and July of this year. It seems reasonable to infer that this excess is mostly COVID-related since I don't know of any other mass-death epidemics during this window.

So the best-case scenario is that the official COVID numbers are accurate - but it's likely that the real number of deaths is a fair amount higher, as much as 30%. I imagine that number could be tightened up with some more in-depth data analysis. But I suspect that the excess deaths are the statistics that future historians will use to get a picture of the real COVID impact - not the official cases & deaths, which are heavily skewed by our deficient testing.

Thanks for sharing that!  That is a very interesting and easy-to-grasp way to put the real toll of this...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on July 23, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
Earlier this week, one of the two pro lacrosse leagues arrived to their bubble, and all players were tested well beyond just a simple Covid test.

One of the players had tested positive in June, and was asymptomatic during his time with the virus. This week during his exam, he was shown to not be able to get enough oxygen to his heart, thus putting him at risk for his heart to go out at any moment during physical exertion.

This is a professional athlete in his prime. Regardless of anyone's feelings towards sports, we know these guys to be in peak physical shape. And he could have his heart give out at any moment, and he never showed any previous symptoms for the virus.

I don't like basing opinions on anecdotal evidence. But man, how many others right now are walking around with ticking time bombs in their chest? And how many other kinds of ticking time bombs are out there beyond just lacking oxygen to the heart?

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on July 23, 2020, 10:15:16 AM
Some interesting stats from NYT - the number of excess deaths in the USA this year vs. the statistical average of prior years:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

The "official" USA death toll for COVID is 145,000. Lots of people in our country have been pushing an idea that the official COVID count is inflated, pointing to a few examples of people who tested positive and then died in an unrelated way (e.g. a car accident) and were counted as a COVID death.

This NYT page shows that there have been around 190,000 excess deaths in the USA, for all causes, between March and July of this year. It seems reasonable to infer that this excess is mostly COVID-related since I don't know of any other mass-death epidemics during this window.

So the best-case scenario is that the official COVID numbers are accurate - but it's likely that the real number of deaths is a fair amount higher, as much as 30%. I imagine that number could be tightened up with some more in-depth data analysis. But I suspect that the excess deaths are the statistics that future historians will use to get a picture of the real COVID impact - not the official cases & deaths, which are heavily skewed by our deficient testing.

An important thing to note is that linear analysis fails to account for the interconnectedness of the world. In this case, health determinants and outcomes are not experienced in a vacuum.

We have a situation here where CoD is being disputed because the immediate cause of death is not specifically COVID-19, but the underlying factors and contributing factors are. So, let's consider that we're not dealing with that fundamental issue and that mortality is being appropriately measured. When you have large-scale disruptions of health systems, there are correlative effects.

Take for example chronic disease management. If a health system is overrun with response to acute illnesses and a triage is set up, resources are reallocated from stable patients to attend to those in immediate need of attention. This is what has been seen with task shifting medical personnel from chronic disease management to help with respiratory support. This means that non-urgent care is delayed or rationed. Conditions here would include dialysis, etc. Also, elective surgeries are delayed. When most people hear elective surgery, they think of plastic surgery or other minor/optional procedures. That's not strictly true: an elective surgery usually means one that can be planned in advance. Take, for example, a cancer patient. A biopsy or tumor removal would fall under this category if the patient is not in advanced sickness. When this is continually delayed, diseases that may have been able to be cured by early intervention can advance into more serious conditions.

The disruption of health systems also impacts health-seeking behavior. People have been putting off goingóor unableóto the doctor for routine care or perceived low-threat conditions. Primary care is a health system's first line of defense at preventing, identifying, and controlling morbidity. If health-seeking behavior is negatively impacted, that benefit is lost. It's much easier to deal with things early rather than late. For example, if someone goes to the doctor with a bacterial respiratory infection early, they can receive an antibiotic regimen and clear the infection; if they wait until they develop acute bronchitis/pneumonia, they may have to have supportive treatment requiring in-patient hospital care.

All of this is to say, the distal effects of SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 will lead to poorer health delivery and outcomes, which will result in higher morbidity and mortality that has nothing to do with COVID-19 in many patients.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 23, 2020, 10:28:22 AM
All of this is to say, the distal effects of SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 will lead to poorer health delivery and outcomes, which will result in higher morbidity and mortality that has nothing to do with COVID-19 in many patients.

Would you say that the excess deaths statistic is a more useful metric than the official death counts? You're a little more qualified than I am so I appreciate the perspective!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 23, 2020, 11:03:11 AM
Some interesting stats from NYT - the number of excess deaths in the USA this year vs. the statistical average of prior years:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

The "official" USA death toll for COVID is 145,000. Lots of people in our country have been pushing an idea that the official COVID count is inflated, pointing to a few examples of people who tested positive and then died in an unrelated way (e.g. a car accident) and were counted as a COVID death.

This NYT page shows that there have been around 190,000 excess deaths in the USA, for all causes, between March and July of this year. It seems reasonable to infer that this excess is mostly COVID-related since I don't know of any other mass-death epidemics during this window.

So the best-case scenario is that the official COVID numbers are accurate - but it's likely that the real number of deaths is a fair amount higher, as much as 30%. I imagine that number could be tightened up with some more in-depth data analysis. But I suspect that the excess deaths are the statistics that future historians will use to get a picture of the real COVID impact - not the official cases & deaths, which are heavily skewed by our deficient testing.

An important thing to note is that linear analysis fails to account for the interconnectedness of the world. In this case, health determinants and outcomes are not experienced in a vacuum.

We have a situation here where CoD is being disputed because the immediate cause of death is not specifically COVID-19, but the underlying factors and contributing factors are. So, let's consider that we're not dealing with that fundamental issue and that mortality is being appropriately measured. When you have large-scale disruptions of health systems, there are correlative effects.

Take for example chronic disease management. If a health system is overrun with response to acute illnesses and a triage is set up, resources are reallocated from stable patients to attend to those in immediate need of attention. This is what has been seen with task shifting medical personnel from chronic disease management to help with respiratory support. This means that non-urgent care is delayed or rationed. Conditions here would include dialysis, etc. Also, elective surgeries are delayed. When most people hear elective surgery, they think of plastic surgery or other minor/optional procedures. That's not strictly true: an elective surgery usually means one that can be planned in advance. Take, for example, a cancer patient. A biopsy or tumor removal would fall under this category if the patient is not in advanced sickness. When this is continually delayed, diseases that may have been able to be cured by early intervention can advance into more serious conditions.

The disruption of health systems also impacts health-seeking behavior. People have been putting off goingóor unableóto the doctor for routine care or perceived low-threat conditions. Primary care is a health system's first line of defense at preventing, identifying, and controlling morbidity. If health-seeking behavior is negatively impacted, that benefit is lost. It's much easier to deal with things early rather than late. For example, if someone goes to the doctor with a bacterial respiratory infection early, they can receive an antibiotic regimen and clear the infection; if they wait until they develop acute bronchitis/pneumonia, they may have to have supportive treatment requiring in-patient hospital care.

All of this is to say, the distal effects of SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 will lead to poorer health delivery and outcomes, which will result in higher morbidity and mortality that has nothing to do with COVID-19 in many patients.

I get what youíre saying, but from the perspective of looking at the overall impact Iím not sure a death has to be caused by an actual case of Covid to be counted as part of the impact overall. I havenít had time to read the article posted yet, so I am not sure where they are coming from, but I think itís not unreasonable to think that while those additional 40k deaths may not be from COVID-19 it isnít unreasonable to say they are due to the impact of Covid-19. Its also concerning to think of how many more deaths may come due to things like not catching cancer or things like that earlier because of the impact on nonessential care this has caused.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on July 23, 2020, 11:16:46 AM
All of this is to say, the distal effects of SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 will lead to poorer health delivery and outcomes, which will result in higher morbidity and mortality that has nothing to do with COVID-19 in many patients.

Would you say that the excess deaths statistic is a more useful metric than the official death counts? You're a little more qualified than I am so I appreciate the perspective!

That depends on what you're trying to determine. The official counts should be used to discuss mortality attributable to COVID-19. Excess mortality here simply states that there is an excess of what would be expected during 'normal' conditions. Normal conditions are estimates that come from statistical modeling using historical data and variables. These data are usually used in crises when cause of death is not known. Epidemiologist use the metric in famines or natural disasters, for example. In these situations, the crisis is an acute cause of death beyond what would have occurred had the crisis not happened. With COVID-19, however, a blanket statement saying that anything above the average is attributable to COVID-19 is wrong. Again, we're dealing with an interconnected system. To illustrate, in the US, there is/was a prolonged period of shutdown in many parts of the country. This resulted in less road traffic, which would affect the mortality due to traffic accidents. So, that would subtract from the projected mortality because that is an aberration from 'normal' conditions. Unless that and other aberrations from 'normal' conditions are controlled for, the excessive mortality becomes less meaningful.

But, the official data is imperfect: there's the human influence (see above re: disputes over CoD), people die outside of a hospital setting and their disease status was not known, the pathogen is novel and we're still learning about the role it has in mortality, and testing is overall not sufficient. So excess mortality statistics should be seen as a starting point for further study. It can be used to understand the toll of the pathogen in the society, but it is not an absolute marker of what can/should be attributable to the virus.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: benny_profane on July 23, 2020, 11:24:19 AM
I get what youíre saying, but from the perspective of looking at the overall impact Iím not sure a death has to be caused by an actual case of Covid to be counted as part of the impact overall. I havenít had time to read the article posted yet, so I am not sure where they are coming from, but I think itís not unreasonable to think that while those additional 40k deaths may not be from COVID-19 it isnít unreasonable to say they are due to the impact of Covid-19. Its also concerning to think of how many more deaths may come due to things like not catching cancer or things like that earlier because of the impact on nonessential care this has caused.

I don't think we disagree. Both the immediate mortality from COVID-19 and the net mortality including other systems elements are important. When studying the pathogen, the mortality caused by the virus is what is important; when developing a public health response and public policy, both are important. If the deaths caused by the other elements (e.g., breakdowns in health-seeking behavior, misdiagnosis of ailments, etc.) are folded into the COVID-19 mortality figure, the virulence of the pathogen is affected by human interaction and we don't have a true understanding of the virus. Human intervention is captured in things like the R (replication) metric, but what studying the pathogen/disease, they shouldn't be included.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: madbean on July 23, 2020, 08:38:20 PM
The latest in bean-verse:

So, after months of deliberation on the part of TENN school district they finally released guidelines for re-opening last week. Then gave us all of 7 days to decide what to do. We initially decided we would have our daughter do virtual classes for the semester. The deciding factor for me is that the state has not yet mandated that all students wear masks in school (stupid stupid stupid). However, we ended up changing our minds. The two primary reasons are that 1) our daughter goes to a magnet school which is essentially all AP courses and if she did virtual school, it would be the state curriculum not the AP one (IOW, she would miss out on the thing that makes her school special) and 2) she advocated for returning. This really surprised me. Up until now she was adamant about not going back but she changed her mind when she realized just how isolated she'd be for the next five months.

Couple important caveats: they only actually go in for two days a week but now she gets to follow the magnet school curriculum instead of the state one. And, she is on-board with wearing a mask at all times. I have a feeling that common sense will prevail and the state will mandate masks for all students by the time school starts.

It's hard to know if this is the right decision but I am concerned about her over-all well being. Children need socialization. I think 2 days a week is a manageable risk. I also think it won't last long. I would not be surprised if they close everything down within a month or so and go virtual for everyone.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 23, 2020, 08:54:43 PM
It's hard to know if this is the right decision but I am concerned about her over-all well being. Children need socialization. I think 2 days a week is a manageable risk. I also think it won't last long. I would not be surprised if they close everything down within a month or so and go virtual for everyone.

My oldest is just starting kindergarten this fall and we'll be homeschooling - but we were already leaning that direction before COVID hit and this was just the nudge to get us there. But honestly, if I was in your position I'd probably do the same thing as you. It seems reasonable and low-risk, all things considered, at least relative to 5-day reopening at a school with a large population.

And you're right, the school year almost certainly won't go as planned. But she'd still be on the AP track if they do end up shutting down and going virtual.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Bio77 on July 23, 2020, 09:18:06 PM
It's hard to know if this is the right decision but I am concerned about her over-all well being. Children need socialization. I think 2 days a week is a manageable risk. I also think it won't last long. I would not be surprised if they close everything down within a month or so and go virtual for everyone.

My daughter starts her senior year this fall.  Our district was planning the hybrid model you are describing.  We were planning to let her attend. Unfortunately, California cases blew up and all the schools are now going to be virtual only.  At the time, I told her to view it as a privilege, one that would likely be taken away as soon as someone got reckless and some kids ended up infected.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 23, 2020, 09:44:06 PM
I also think it won't last long. I would not be surprised if they close everything down within a month or so and go virtual for everyone.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the is how it goes. I know the district around where my father-in-law teaches plan to close down if just one student test positive. They aren't advertising it with the opening plans but they have told the teachers to be ready to go virtual at the drop of a hat. If one student or teacher in the school test positive that Schoo, and any school that a sibling of that student goes to will close for 14 days. Sounds to me like a recipe for school being mostly closed, and occasionally restarting and probably closing again quickly thereafter.

I really hope the mask schools at least get it together and mandate mask inside the building. Everything I've read suggest that mandating mask in school was a key to schools that did manage to successfully reopen last spring.

I think I'm going to homeschool my kids this year, because it will allow us to have some continuity, and I have the luxury of being a stay at home parent right now.


I know that the general consensus is that switching to virtual school in the spring was a disaster, but people have to remember, that all happened really fast. Teachers and schools were forced to completely change everything and develop whole new systems without time to prepare or try out things first. I think that if the decision to do virtual school was made early and there was more time to prepare for it things would work far better than in the spring.


Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: somnif on July 23, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
The university in my town officially announced they'd be doing physical classes, with the president doing a masterful job of blame shifting onto the students.

But see...

I taught microbio lab for a couple years at the uni. One of the first things we teach (seriously, day one, bullet point 2) is how to properly wash your hands. We did it literally multiple times each meeting.

And I was still correcting people's form at the end of the semester.

If folks can't follow safety rules in a class literally designed around "how to deal with potentially pathogenic goop", what on earth makes them think the rest of the student body will.

Honestly not sure if I'm glad the furlough nonsense meant my contract wasn't picked up this semester or not. What a mess.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on July 24, 2020, 08:07:22 AM
Hopefully, the magnet school will be a little more taken care of inside than public schools, just have to worry about her being a carrier and bringing it home. Iím sure it will work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: diablochris6 on July 24, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
My school district is still going full steam ahead with students being in school all week, with no alterations to bus routes, and class rotations...and that is with our cases over double what they were in March and April. We will try and social distance or use masks if we can't within the classroom (and let's face it, public schools don't have the resources to social distance within a classroom). With me being a teacher, I have to go to school, and that means two of my kids have to go to their elementary and the youngest to daycare. I'm hoping the district will come to a conclusion that we should push back the start date to the end of August, but they already pushed it back just one week and are sure that their plan will work enough, even if it seems scant on crucial details. I have a feeling that Covid-19 is going to catch us with our pants down again.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on July 24, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
My school district is still going full steam ahead with students being in school all week, with no alterations to bus routes, and class rotations...and that is with our cases over double what they were in March and April. We will try and social distance or use masks if we can't within the classroom (and let's face it, public schools don't have the resources to social distance within a classroom). With me being a teacher, I have to go to school, and that means two of my kids have to go to their elementary and the youngest to daycare. I'm hoping the district will come to a conclusion that we should push back the start date to the end of August, but they already pushed it back just one week and are sure that their plan will work enough, even if it seems scant on crucial details. I have a feeling that Covid-19 is going to catch us with our pants down again.

I donít believe anyone has had a chance to pull there pants back up.

Insert string of butt jokes here....


In all seriousness though, be careful man, thatís a lot of new possible vectors for this thing to get into your house. I would be in the exact same position if I hadnít taken this and last year off from teaching so we could travel for my wifeís job. Until March I was pretty unhappy about not being able to be in the classroom, now I feel kinda lucky I guess. I suppose if I have to take a few years off teaching then a pandemic isnít a bad time, but I still miss it.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on July 24, 2020, 11:00:09 AM
My school district is still going full steam ahead with students being in school all week, with no alterations to bus routes, and class rotations...and that is with our cases over double what they were in March and April. We will try and social distance or use masks if we can't within the classroom (and let's face it, public schools don't have the resources to social distance within a classroom). With me being a teacher, I have to go to school, and that means two of my kids have to go to their elementary and the youngest to daycare. I'm hoping the district will come to a conclusion that we should push back the start date to the end of August, but they already pushed it back just one week and are sure that their plan will work enough, even if it seems scant on crucial details. I have a feeling that Covid-19 is going to catch us with our pants down again.

I donít believe anyone has had a chance to pull there pants back up.

Insert string of butt jokes here....


In all seriousness though, be careful man, thatís a lot of new possible vectors for this thing to get into your house. I would be in the exact same position if I hadnít taken this and last year off from teaching so we could travel for my wifeís job. Until March I was pretty unhappy about not being able to be in the classroom, now I feel kinda lucky I guess. I suppose if I have to take a few years off teaching then a pandemic isnít a bad time, but I still miss it.

My wife's last day employed as a teacher was Dec.31, 2019, a date picked a few years earlier, thanks her lucky stars daily.

Stay well, the powers that be sure aren't doing those in the trenches any favours. Houses made of cards...
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on July 24, 2020, 05:37:44 PM
Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea...

Kids need education, I'm not sure how feasible it is to have no schooling for a year or two. Kinda weird -- the only option seems to be homeschooling in the circumstances, but outlets like the NYT have been running op-eds on how home schooling perpetuates white supremacy...
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 24, 2020, 06:24:05 PM
Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea...

Kids need education, I'm not sure how feasible it is to have no schooling for a year or two. Kinda weird -- the only option seems to be homeschooling in the circumstances, but outlets like the NYT have been running op-eds on how home schooling perpetuates white supremacy...

I mean... NYT op-eds aren't really a good reflection of what people actually think, moreso just what people in positions of influence want people to think. Some are good but some are reeeeeally awful. (Recent example, Senator Tom Cotton, "Send In the Military", June 3 - NYT now puts a disclaimer at the top saying they regret publishing it.)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: aion on July 26, 2020, 06:27:50 PM
"We can virtually eliminate the virus any time we decide to... and we could do it in a matter of weeks."

This guy (Andy Slavitt) has consistently been one of the most level-headed & thought-provoking voices on COVID the past few months. Well worth your five minutes!

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1287524301499965441.html
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: LaceSensor on August 24, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
I guess it makes the most sense to post this here.

I woke up today feeling really deflated about the world as it is today, mid pandemic.
For obvious reasons everyone must feel like worry, concern for family etc, but also the simple things like lack of freedom to do anything normal.
I think being cooped up and 99% not really left the premises since early March is taking its toll.

As I mentioned in another thread, we had a coronababy (ie, born mid crisis, early May) so that has informed a lot of our decision to not risk anything.

I guess what really bummed me out especially today was two things. Firstly, I sold a pedal and wanted to use the post office, and it just sucked wearing a mask, muffled speech, not being able to interact with anyone, waiting outside etc. I know this all sounds like first world problems but still, for some reason it just worn me down today. SEcondly was an article about a young man in HK who had the virus (confirmed by genome sequencing) back in March if I remember right, and now in August (having been to Spain, returned via the UK, and been screened on arrival in HK) has the virus again. Confirmed again by genome sequencing, and definitely a second infection event because the viral sequence shows mutation variation so its a different strain. Mercifully for him he was reported asymptomatic (not so good for others, perhaps?) whereas he was hospitalised the first episode.

But what this means is even with vaccines, this shit is just never going to go away.
Im a scientist, I work for one of the worlds largest lifescience companies, our CEO and leadership team members are always on the news and even met with the US administration inc Trump. So I know more than the average person, we are actually one of the leaders in developing testing and diagnostics for this, so this isnt just a knee jerk "im angry at the world" response, its kinda feeling like a bit of helpless despair.

I imagine now being a dad is amplifying these feelings. It really hits me in the gut when none of my friends have even met my daughter...

Anway, this is fast becoming a rambling rant but I havent any other vacuums to spew into right now, and Madbean feels somewhat anonymous to me so I would say things here I might not other places. Thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on August 24, 2020, 05:05:40 PM
Hey man, itís all good. Iím always traveling between Atlanta and Nashville, and  Iíve been able to since March. I donít like being cooped up in my house all day everyday. I donít like that people canít see me smiling when I do make quick trips and my apartment pool is finally fixed after being closed all last summer and we canít use it.
Yeah, Iím mad as hell that it hasnít been taken serious by a large amount of people, so it seems to have affected more people than it had to BUT Iíve had you guys to talk to and interact with. Make the most of it and look forward to the time when we canít get out again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: alanp on August 24, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
I'm feeling kinda guilty at working right now, given how so many people have been unemployed for months, now, through no fault of their own, or their ex-employers. (Freezing worker, here, lamb slaughterhouse (although we're also doing bobby calves right now.)) Work has been incredibly strict since Corona started.

What is compounding the guilt is being thoroughly sick of nonstop full days. We've been on six day working weeks (Sunday night through to Friday night) for a couple months, now. Holiday for the whole site was end of June, start of July for three weeks, right in the middle of winter, previous to which was also nonstop, but looking back I did enjoy five day work weeks back then. I'm hoping things will start to slow down a wee bit.

So, feeling partly guilty, partly mildly happy, and partly tired.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: peAk on August 24, 2020, 09:19:30 PM
Kiddo goes to his 7th grade classrooms tomorrow

Houston, TX

Sucks but what can you do?



Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on August 25, 2020, 04:01:49 AM
Kiddo goes to his 7th grade classrooms tomorrow

Houston, TX

Sucks but what can you do?

Good luck. I have the luxury of being able to homeschool this year. Iím not super excited to do it, but I donít know if I could handle putting my kids on a school bus this year.


Iím traveling today. Amazingly airport in America had pretty much 100% compliance with mask. Airport in Europe, not so much at all. Itís fairly nerve racking. Iím kinda looking forward to fourteen days of isolation after this.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on August 25, 2020, 11:55:04 AM
Every grade except for Kindergarten and 1st grade are 100% virtual in my district. My kid is going into 1st grade, and we have the option to do all virtual, but we've opted for her to do in-person. It's 8:30 - 12 M-F, and the class size is about 10 kids. Small enough that they can actually maintain at least 6-foot spacing. And we've hired our next door neighbor's daughter to do afternoon support. She *just* graduated from college and can't find anything steady work-wise. Win-win, I guess.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: dan.schumaker on August 25, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Every grade except for Kindergarten and 1st grade are 100% virtual in my district. My kid is going into 1st grade, and we have the option to do all virtual, but we've opted for her to do in-person. It's 8:30 - 12 M-F, and the class size is about 10 kids. Small enough that they can actually maintain at least 6-foot spacing. And we've hired our next door neighbor's daughter to do afternoon support. She *just* graduated from college and can't find anything steady work-wise. Win-win, I guess.

That's not a bad situation.  The boy starts school tomorrow (1st grade), and is in a class of 8 kids.  Janey starts preschool a few weeks later and only has 10 or so kids in the class.  It will be hard to tell the preschoolers to stay distanced, so we will see how that goes.  We send the kids to a small school anyway, so the low enrollment numbers will help out making us feel better about the situation.

I don't know how long full time school will go, but if it gives my wife a few weeks break before having to home school, I think we would all benefit. 
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on August 25, 2020, 12:14:50 PM
I don't know if full time school will start, but if it gives my wife a few weeks break before having to home school, I think we would all benefit.

Our situation is complicated by the fact that my wife is a high school teacher, but in a not-very-nearby district. Her school decided to go all virtual instruction, but the current (and ever-changing) plan is that the teachers themselves will livestream their lectures from the actual classroom. So she might actually have to drive there every day to stream her class, which is fucking stupid. Hopefully they change their mind, and also as backup she's applied for a medical exemption to teach from home. She's on an immuno-suppressant prescription drug, and we've been told that it will be enough to qualify.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on August 25, 2020, 12:15:36 PM
Every grade except for Kindergarten and 1st grade are 100% virtual in my district. My kid is going into 1st grade, and we have the option to do all virtual, but we've opted for her to do in-person. It's 8:30 - 12 M-F, and the class size is about 10 kids. Small enough that they can actually maintain at least 6-foot spacing. And we've hired our next door neighbor's daughter to do afternoon support. She *just* graduated from college and can't find anything steady work-wise. Win-win, I guess.
Wow, sheís that old already? Daaamn where does the time go?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on August 25, 2020, 12:23:47 PM
Wow, sheís that old already? Daaamn where does the time go?

Yep. She turned 6 last week. Honestly, it's felt like 8 years already, haha. But it's speeding up, for sure.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: sjaustin on August 25, 2020, 01:13:43 PM
Yep. She turned 6 last week. Honestly, it's felt like 8 years already, haha. But it's speeding up, for sure.
Becoming a parent made time speed up for me for sure. My older one is 16 now. :o   No telling what this lost year (God, please let it just be one year) will do to our sense of time's progression.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: gordo on August 25, 2020, 01:27:26 PM
I'm a data center engineer and my boss let slip that there's a possibility I won't go back till 2022.

Hard to complain, as I'm still working.  It's making this house sale and move a bit easier.  On the plus side I'm renting a place about 2 miles from here with better internet and I'll have room to bring a reduced version of my workshop with me (much to my wife's chagrin) so there is some silent celebrating going on in my head :-)
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on August 25, 2020, 01:30:28 PM
Seeing the options everyone has for school has me jealous. Elementary school district I work in is all-day in-person, mayyybe 1/7 of the kids are doing online, so its almost a packed house, only enforcing 3 feet of separation, no windows are open, teachers are allowed to give 5 minute mask breaks - because supposedly you can't get COVID without at least 15 minutes of unmasked exposure....what the... - lunch is in the cafeteria rather than the classrooms, and at recess I'm to encourage kids to all stay 6 feet away so they can take their masks off, because OF COURSE 5-11 year olds want to play with their friends with 6 feet of separation. Oh, and when I tried to get kids to put their masks on within 6 feet of each other, the principal told me "they're fine, we're outside and they're not physically touching each other." Oh, and because they're children who either cannot fully grasp the reality of the virus, or are taught incorrect info at home, chasing each other around around the playing yelling "I'm giving you coronavirus" is one of the most popular games.

Oh, and the county fair is still on over labor day weekend. Masks will be mandated, but this is rural NW Ohio, we'll see about that.

On another note, anyone have a hazmat suit for sale??

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: jimilee on August 25, 2020, 04:56:20 PM
Cause you canít get it if youíre out side, right.........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: EBK on September 08, 2020, 06:06:37 AM
First day of virtual school year with 3rd grader and Kindergartner. 
😬🤞


Edit:
So far, 3rd Grade is going perfectly.  Kindergarten is extremely taxing though.  My son keeps disengaging, which is expected at his developmental stage, but it means we have to 100% supervise to support him.  I need to go do my own work.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: TheDude on September 08, 2020, 07:38:31 AM
First day of virtual school year with 3rd grader and Kindergartner. 



Edit:
So far, 3rd Grade is going perfectly.  Kindergarten is extremely taxing though.  My son keeps disengaging, which is expected at his developmental stage, but it means we have to 100% supervise to support him.  I need to go do my own work.
You've got this!

The third grader will do fine so long as they didn't struggle in class. As the year goes on you may need to keep them engaged a bit, but unlikely that the difficulty of the work will get out of hand.

As for your kindergartener, yeah, keeping them on task will be the most difficult aspect. I'm not sure what their online work looks like, but from the people I've communicated with, they've found the most success in trying to combine some of their lessons with things already going on in daily life for the family. For example, they can join you and/or your spouse while making dinner, and using that as a chance to practice counting ingredients, sounding out their names, what letter they start with, etc. Keeps the kid a bit more engaged, applies what they are learning, and helps you kill two birds with one stone.

Like I said, not sure if you can find a way to make that work based on what their work looks like, but hopefully it helps!!

Sent from my LM-X410PM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on September 08, 2020, 01:01:31 PM
After some going back and forth we decided to homeschool this year. Iím not working this year anyway, so it seemed like the safest bet. If schools would have committed to distance learning I might have gone that route, but I get why they didnít. 

I gotta say, I feel privileged to be able to do it to keep us all safe, but damn itís a lot of work. Two school aged kids. Fifth grade and third grade. On top of ďclass timeĒ Iím spending a couple hours every night getting ready for everything. I donít know when Iíll ever find time to play or turn on the soldering iron again.

Iím just worried what the kids would bring home with them. The college my wife and brother went has had as many cases in the last month as the surrounding area has had since March.

I think Iím just going to stay home for a few years.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on September 08, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
This is the first, Tuesday after Labour Day, in 56 years my wife hasn't been in a classroom, she couldn't be happier. Retired December 31, 2019, how did she know this mess was approaching.

...
I think Iím just going to stay home for a few years.

My wife went back to work when our daughter was 4 months old, i quit my job and stayed home to look after her, worked out okay.
dave
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: culturejam on September 09, 2020, 07:11:44 AM
So far, in-person 1st grade is going well. It's just half a day, so we've had to hire someone to engage the kid in the afternoons. I work remote full time and the wife is teaching remote (high school social studies), so we're both tied up the whole day. We consider ourselves extraordinarily lucky, all things considered.


This is the first, Tuesday after Labour Day, in 56 years my wife hasn't been in a classroom, she couldn't be happier. Retired December 31, 2019, how did she know this mess was approaching.

Now that's some good timing!
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: Matmosphere on September 09, 2020, 07:30:19 AM
This is the first, Tuesday after Labour Day, in 56 years my wife hasn't been in a classroom, she couldn't be happier. Retired December 31, 2019, how did she know this mess was approaching.

...
I think Iím just going to stay home for a few years.

My wife went back to work when our daughter was 4 months old, i quit my job and stayed home to look after her, worked out okay.
dave

Thatís pretty much how it happened for me. When we had our first son I stopped working. I was still finishing school though. Went to part time and finished a few years later, right after our second was born. I stayed home another few years and started teaching, so number three went to daycare for a while.

On to different adventures and now Iím home again.

It was a good year to retire I guess, but I bet your wife still misses it.

So far, in-person 1st grade is going well. It's just half a day, so we've had to hire someone to engage the kid in the afternoons. I work remote full time and the wife is teaching remote (high school social studies), so we're both tied up the whole day. We consider ourselves extraordinarily lucky, all things considered.


This is the first, Tuesday after Labour Day, in 56 years my wife hasn't been in a classroom, she couldn't be happier. Retired December 31, 2019, how did she know this mess was approaching.

Now that's some good timing!

CJ Iím 100% with you. I think any of us who havenít lost our jobs, a loved one or gotten really sick ourself are lucky right now.

I feel like we really need to look out for each other right now, and I think a lot of that is happening. Unfortunately thereís plenty of bickering too.
Title: Re: The Official Coronavirus Discussion
Post by: davent on September 09, 2020, 11:22:25 AM


It was a good year to retire I guess, but I bet your wife still misses it.

So far, in-person 1st grade is going well. It's just half a day, so we've had to hire someone to engage the kid in the afternoons. I work remote full time and the wife is teaching remote (high school social studies), so we're both tied up the whole day. We consider ourselves extraordinarily lucky, all things considered.


This is the first, Tuesday after Labour Day, in 56 years my wife hasn't been in a classroom, she couldn't be happier. Retired December 31, 2019, how did she know this mess was approaching.

Now that's some good timing!

CJ Iím 100% with you. I think any of us who havenít lost our jobs, a loved one or gotten really sick ourself are lucky right now.

I feel like we really need to look out for each other right now, and I think a lot of that is happening. Unfortunately thereís plenty of bickering too.

I did my best to wring it out of her, "just a little bit?", her, "NOT At ALL!" Even being around me 24/7 hasn't stirred any second guessing in her mind, or just too stubborn to admit it...

She'd had her sights set on that date for a few years, she turned 60 in mid December and with that came a substantial bump up to maximum pension available so she hung in there. Seven years ago she had the combined numbers of age, 53, and years teaching, 32,  to retire but, a daughter doing her university undergrad (and back to university starting yesterday for another four year tour), and still enjoying the job, most of her colleagues students and the pay,  why walk away from a good thing, the pros killed the cons.

Further to watching out for one another, as someone once said, 'united we stand, divided we fall', hoping for the best.
Take care.
dave
dave