Hello...
So I am going to attempt to build the One Knob Fuzz using Andy C's layout.
BEFORE I get going, I want to make sure of a few BASIC things...
I am England and have read on here about different forms of solder...I would like to know which one would be 'best' ie 60/40 or the other, 63/37 I think? Also, what is the right diameter? Too thin might take longer and therefore use more heat against parts?
I have an okay soldering station...'Grandma Shark' 937D...Again, I would like to make sure I run it at the optimum heat setting.
Idiot questions I know BUT, I want to get this right from the start.
Appreciate any clues/advice.
Bob :)
Generally, more tin and less led will ask more melting tempeature. This is less good for soldering of pcb copper tracks because of sooner damaging desk from higher temperature. Use more led solder. Optimal diameter for me with pistol solderer is cca 2 mm, with rosin inside. Thinner is for smd concepts, with solder 1-2 mm and lower temperature. Use rosin for good drop finish and better conect. Clear pins, soder pots and wires before soldering (knife, soft metal brush...).
Appreciate that....
I was getting worried after 41 views and no responses!
;D
Lower temperature....can you be more specific please? Using a soldering station...just trying to get this dialled-in correctly from the start.
Is there a favoured brand of solder, bearing in mind I am UK based?
Thanks.
Generally, lower temp is such a temp, that will melt thinner tin for smd devices as so quickly, as higher temp will do with tin with 2mm diam. Tin must be liquid properly to get good contact, but not to be oveburn. Try it at first at some old pcb, to get praxe. This is not something anybody can define too strictly. UK solder sevices are unknown for me, so I can't give you better advice.
For soldering points at lamp sockets or concept of soldering eyes at some pertinax desk you use higher temp, to heat it all properly. It is not pcb, so you can little raise temp. But allways use rosin. It is cheap but very usefull.
Will do....I just meant isn't there meant to be an optimum temperature? I forget what I saw...350-370? Something like that..being lazy, will go back and try to find it.
I will experiment with a scrap of Vero....not too concerned re the solder flowing, more the heat of the iron damaging the parts if the makes more sense?
Appreciate the responses.
:)
Surely there is some info at UK vendors for their tin solder temperatures. But I am not from Uk so I have no aim what types of tin you can get here. If you purchase any in some shop, try to info here.
Try to set lower temp from start and work with it. You will see if it makes good contacts and workflow.
No sweat....I think something I am not asking the right question here...Will think of a better way to put it tomorrow.
Appreciate your help.
:)
I wouldn't worry too much about the actually temperature. You are touching a chunk of hot metal to another piece of metal that you want to heat up. It depends on how much metal is there to absorb and disapate the heat, so depending on what it is, sometimes you go a little hoter and sometimes cooler.
For soldering just a normal pad with something small like a resistor in it, get your tip just slightly hotter than it takes to melt the solder. For bigger items like switches and jacks, there is more metal to heat up so it may take a little longer before the solder melts so you could choose to increase the temp a bit. If you have variable station you should be good. Just experiment with it and tweak it as you go.
It will really come down to gaining some experience and aquiring better and better technique.
Excellent, thanks for that...I will experiment and go from there. I am always worried about 'frying' components with a soldering iron...ie resistors and the like but, I will go carefully.
Have some free time today so, can look around for the temperature I vaguely remember seeing, pretty sure it was 350C.
http://www.bestsoldering.com/best-soldering-iron-temperature-for-circuit-boards/
That would seem to suggest 60/40 becomes liquid at 190C so, 350C seems a bit high to me BUT, as we already know, I don't know a lot.
;D
350C seemed to be good.
Need to tidy-up the tatty edge where I cut this with the hacksaw.
4 cuts to the rear of the board and the 3 'jumpers?' in place.
Looking good man! Keep it up.
And I wouldn't worry about that edge. Functionally it makes no difference at all, and you'll never see it once you box everything up.
Thank you....But I know it's in there so, I will sort it.
;D
Sorted :P
1M, 10k jumpers and sockets added....getting there.
150k, 1k, 820R, 2K2 and polarised caps added as well...100uF and 10uF.
Don't forget after work to clean copper side from tin dust, overburned rosin and controll it from unwanted bridges. That's all! Good luck!
Do you mean the actual copper 'rails' or the lines in-between?
I clean the in-between stuff as I go, BUT will definitely do so at the 'end' just to make sure.
Thanks.
:)
Yes I mean all gaps between copper traces. But at the end, I allways clean pcb with technical alcohol and laque all with laque from rosin in aceton or alcohol. It will protect all from corosion, wetness and undesired shortages in any danger.
Brilliant.
I will look into that...Is isopropyl good to use as a cleaner or is that what you meant by 'technical cleaner?'
Thanks again.
:)
Don't know isopropyl, this drink is not popular here. Use technical alcohol or aceton (nitrocel.). Alcohol is "softer", aceton is harder, look out not to etch plastic parts.
Quote from: burnt fingers on September 28, 2021, 06:52:16 PM
Brilliant.
I will look into that...Is isopropyl good to use as a cleaner or is that what you meant by 'technical cleaner?'
Thanks again.
:)
Yep, that will work just fine.
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Ta!
:)
Question re the actual wire for the board etc.
I have always liked pedals and amps where the wire is quite stiff vs the general 'floppy' stuff I see many using.
Can someone 'educate' me re a good 'thickness' of wire so I can actually achieve this?
Thanks.
:)
Anyone?
I like the way older amps are laid out, the wires seem to be thicker, hold their shape better once 'bent' etc if that makes any sense?
:)
As in the photograph...which makes me wonder if this is a solid core wire vs the multiple 'twist' ones I seem to have?
No idea...Help please.
:-[
Might have answered my own question...
Looks like 0.24mm is the way to go, maybe even 0.26mm. Can anyone shed some light before I go ahead and order?
Thanks....UK Based remember :)
Insignificant detail. For that current that will flow here is not 0,02 mm diference important. Only when high current is here, you must find wire that will withstand it. Here is some mathematic rule about it, but I can't recall it. Try to look at web.
Insignificant to you maybe, BUT, something I am asking about so... :)
It's an aesthetic thing to me and I have already looked on the web BUT, I will just make my own merry way then re the wire ;D
Quote from: burnt fingers on September 29, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Insignificant to you maybe, BUT, something I am asking about so... :)
It's an aesthetic thing to me and I have already looked on the web BUT, I will just make my own merry way then re the wire ;D
To answer you directly, the smaller the number the thicker the gauge, if I remember correctly. A thicker gauge will hold its shape better, but it will be more difficult to make 90 degree bends. in my opinion. Solid core wire will too, but it is more likely to break if you have to do a lot of troubleshooting, which adds to the frustration. I do like the neatness of it though. I get my wire from guitarpcb.com most of the time. It's thin and very shapeable. It's a bonded core wire, so it doesn't break nearly as often.
In the game of DIY, it's all about what you like, I, along with the other mods, am happy to answer any question you may have. We all started out new like yourself. I, eventually realized I was overthinking it a lot. Hope this helps, good luck with your build.
Here is some table, maybe will help.
Pre-bonded wire holds it shape okay, but if you want to get the look you posted in that pic you should use solid core wire in stead of stranded. It is readily available, but in my experience it breaks more and is not as reliable. If you are using board mounted pots and working it is probably okay because things won't move around when you transport the pedal.
Appreciate the answers...I do realise what I am looking at is perhaps 'overkill' for this stage but, I have a certain look in mind and want to achieve that sooner than later.
I had read that the solid wire was prone to cracking/breaking more often...
I will order some of the other type at 0.24mm and 0.26mm and see if I am being dumb re the wiring :)
I've used what I have to hand right now and being the impatient soul I am, I didn't wait for the 2 missing film caps to arrive :P
I am EXTREMELY grateful to anyone who is kind enough to take the time to answer my 'idiotic' questions, truly!
NOT mine, obviously ;D
This is where I am aiming, in terms of skill level and neatness....just a beautiful build in my eyes! Wires obviously not at 90 degrees BUT stiffer wire and so neat/tidy!
Nice. Zip ties!
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Yup!
Stiffer wire, zip ties and just super neat and tidy!
:)
The wire you want is 22g pre-tinned. It holds its shape. If you check Small Bear, they might have some left.
I'd also recommend getting some 24g for tighter builds like 1590As
For the best reliability is more usefull soft and light cord with silicon isolation. Only one wire is more inclinable to break when some shock during transport.
Quote from: Bio77 on September 29, 2021, 09:11:22 PM
The wire you want is 22g pre-tinned. It holds its shape. If you check Small Bear, they might have some left.
I'd also recommend getting some 24g for tighter builds like 1590As
UK based, sadly....
Will look into it though....some 24g? Not sure what that is, sorry, Noob here!
The numbers are the gauge of the wire. 24 has a smaller diameter (easier to bend) than 22. I prefer the 22 but a lot of builders like 24. I have some 24 for tight builds because sometimes the 22 is too bulky. There should be a source for it in the UK. I was going to post a link to Small Bear link for reference, but their site seems to be down at the moment. Here's a link to GuitarPCB's 24g wire as an example.
https://guitarpcb.com/product/barrys-best-pedal-hookup-wire/ (https://guitarpcb.com/product/barrys-best-pedal-hookup-wire/)
Quote from: Bio77 on September 29, 2021, 11:58:04 PM
The numbers are the gauge of the wire. 24 has a smaller diameter (easier to bend) than 22. I prefer the 22 but a lot of builders like 24. I have some 24 for tight builds because sometimes the 22 is too bulky. There should be a source for it in the UK. I was going to post a link to Small Bear link for reference, but their site seems to be down at the moment. Here's a link to GuitarPCB's 24g wire as an example.
https://guitarpcb.com/product/barrys-best-pedal-hookup-wire/ (https://guitarpcb.com/product/barrys-best-pedal-hookup-wire/)
Cool! Thank you! I thought it must be that, just wasn't sure as I am used to seeing .24mm or the like.
Appreciate it!
:)
At second page of this thread I sent you table metrum.png. With gauges of all 3 types.
Quote from: Zerro on September 30, 2021, 01:35:36 PM
At second page of this thread I sent you table metrum.png. With gauges of all 3 types.
Hi, I did see that....I understood the column with mm...As for the rest of it?
I know nothing remember :)
Can you explain the relevance please?
A.W.G - American wire gauge (USA)
S.W.G. - Imperial standard wire gauge (british)
B.W.G. - Birmingham wire gauge (british)
If you are from USA, you will mostly encounter with A.W.G. Most of differencies are not so big as you see.
Quote from: Zerro on September 30, 2021, 03:10:11 PM
A.W.G - American wire gauge (USA)
S.W.G. - Imperial standard wire gauge (british)
B.W.G. - Birmingham wire gauge (british)
If you are from USA, you will mostly encounter with A.W.G. Most of differencies are not so big as you see.
Cool...I am in the UK.
Anyone one from here based in the UK and using 0.24mm? Having a hard time finding it!
And the mail has been and gone without my missing parts...Joy!
::)
SCORE!
Postie came back having realised she had a package for me!!!!
Quote from: burnt fingers on October 01, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Anyone one from here based in the UK and using 0.24mm? Having a hard time finding it!
And the mail has been and gone without my missing parts...Joy!
::)
SCORE!
Postie came back having realised she had a package for me!!!!
0.24mm would be extremely tiny in terms of what we use, that would be ~31awg size, the bigger the number the smaller the wire.
22awg is 0.644mm, 24awg is 0.5mm, so anything in that range would be ideal, solid core if you must have 90 degree bends that hold their shape, the more forgiving, stranded with zip ties if a more fluid/organic set up is fine. PTFE/Teflon insulated is a bonus for either solid core or stranded.
And if going with the 90 degree bends get yourself a pair of conical tipped needle nose pliers, wide range of radii and not going to knick weaken the wire when you bend it. Bought mine at a craft store selling jewellery making supplies.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Alicate_boca_redonda.png)
dave
Quote from: davent on October 01, 2021, 04:20:55 PM
Quote from: burnt fingers on October 01, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Anyone one from here based in the UK and using 0.24mm? Having a hard time finding it!
And the mail has been and gone without my missing parts...Joy!
::)
SCORE!
Postie came back having realised she had a package for me!!!!
0.24mm would be extremely tiny in terms of what we use, that would be ~31awg size, the bigger the number the smaller the wire.
22awg is 0.644mm, 24awg is 0.5mm, so anything in that range would be ideal, solid core if you must have 90 degree bends that hold their shape, the more forgiving, stranded with zip ties if a more fluid/organic set up is fine. PTFE/Teflon insulated is a bonus for either solid core or stranded.
And if going with the 90 degree bends get yourself a pair of conical tipped needle nose pliers, wide range of radii and not going to knick weaken the wire when you bend it. Bought mine at a craft store selling jewellery making supplies.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Alicate_boca_redonda.png)
dave
Still trying to figure out what I want if I am honest. The 90 degree thing isn't major, more the rigidity of the wire. I have 22AWG right now and I am not really loving it. it's not hideous BUT, would prefer something a little more rigid!
Ta for the input, appreciate you taking the time!
I do need to go get some better tools this weekend...mine are a bit 'pants!'
:)
Didn't like the first one, made another...Will eyeball later for any errors re parts, found 2 on the first board :(
All a learning curve right?
:)
Rubbish week over, new tester arrived so I can triple check all parts before soldering to the board...
Onwards towards testing a populated board with wires(I have a breakout box) :)
Okay...onto the wiring from the board and then the breakout box testing of the one knobber.
Idiot question.
Do I have the lugs numbered correctly on the potentiometer in the picture? I have always been confused with the 'view' of the potentiometer...Think it is meant to be when inside the box?
Quote from: burnt fingers on October 11, 2021, 05:06:42 PM
Okay...onto the wiring from the board and then the breakout box testing of the one knobber.
Idiot question.
Do I have the lugs numbered correctly on the potentiometer in the picture? I have always been confused with the 'view' of the potentiometer...Think it is meant to be when inside the box?
If that's the view from the bottom of the pot, yes.
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Guess that was my question....In the ORIGINAL schematic provided, I am assuming that is the view from below....how do you know for sure? OR is the assumption that all pots shown are 'in' the enclosure and therefore can only be viewed one way, IE from below....
I am guessing the view is from below based on the way it is drawn(that is why I numbered it the way I did) AND this reference from Beavis Audio seems to suggest the same, to my little mind. Am I wrong?
Appreciate it! This has always confused the hell out of me...pretty sure I have driven myself nuts before with this!
:-\
Quote from: burnt fingers on October 11, 2021, 11:51:26 PM
Guess that was my question....In the ORIGINAL schematic provided, I am assuming that is the view from below....how do you know for sure? OR is the assumption that all pots shown are 'in' the enclosure and therefore can only be viewed one way, IE from below....
I am guessing the view is from below based on the way it is drawn(that is why I numbered it the way I did) AND this reference from Beavis Audio seems to suggest the same, to my little mind. Am I wrong?
Appreciate it! This has always confused the hell out of me...pretty sure I have driven myself nuts before with this!
:-\
I don't know if this will help or not, but manufactures actually specify which pin is which in the datasheets:
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/13/alpha_taiwan_09042019_RV16AF-10-15R1-B(resistance_-1633894.pdf
I usually just google the pin outs.
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Guess I am not explaining this very well....will have a think and ask the question in a different way.
Quote from: burnt fingers on October 12, 2021, 02:12:41 PM
Guess I am not explaining this very well....will have a think and ask the question in a different way.
How do you know for sure if you are looking at the top or the bottom? Honestly, if it isn't stated through pre numbering, explanation or it's marked bottom, it's a guess. Your no layout is looking at the top of the board, so, I assume we're looking at the bottom of the pot because that's how it would look if it was boxed up.
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This is what I believe to be true....I went back and looked through a load of different diagrams, I can see how I got confused on some :)
Okay....I am assuming the original schematic I am looking at shows a potentiometer mounted to the box and therefore, I am assuming the lugs are 3, 2 and 1 from top to bottom :)
HOPEFULLY that is correct.
Based on the assumption being correct re the potentiometer being viewed from the back of the pot, I have wired it like this.
Sadly, this passes signal when in bypass mode and does naff-all else when the effect is engaged.
Can anyone see anything that I've obviously done wrong?
Back of the board...I thought I had been very careful BUT, I am guessing the initial suspect has to be something bridged?
I will try running a knife down in-between each copper rail.
NOT disheartened, just scratching my head a bit :)
Appreciate any help at this point.
Break out the audio probe and follow the input signal.
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One working, one not....Armed with lots of ace and very helpful info from Mr JL, I will go through the audio signal path this weekend on the one that is 'thumbing it's nose at me'...once I have built myself an audio probe/tried the breakout box hack as suggested by Mr JL ;)
Also decided to order one of these bad boys, seeing as I do not have a looper or an audio generator.
https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Ultra_Tester/p847124_15700704.aspx
This arrived and went together pretty easily...
Will be probing and looking at stuff tomorrow!!!
I'm in the uk and use 22 swg, 60/40 as solder of choice. Since Dr Tweak stopped trading, Bitsbox is a good source for everyday parts including this stuff.
Good luck!