madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => How Do I? Beginner's Paradise. => Topic started by: monkeyssj1 on February 08, 2012, 04:32:19 PM

Title: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 08, 2012, 04:32:19 PM
Hey so this may be one of the most if not the most noob question on the entire forum, but I am about to buy a green bean board and am now wondering what am I to do from here. I know i need to source all the parts (which at the moment seems like a very daunting task), but once I recieve the parts, do I need to find some sort of instruction manual with step by steps on how to assemble the parts? Or do instructions come with the board? Like I said, I am as new as it comes so I hope this question doesn't offend anyone here. I'm just a poor kid wanting to save as much money as possible while making awesome sounds :D.

Curious... also I was looking at http://forums.vintageamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88362 and someone was saying something about the Landgraff clone which is supposed to be awesome. I was wondering if anyone had any input on the notion of that pedal. Would I need to get different parts (I'm assuming yes... and wondering what parts instead of what).

All feedback is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: Om_Audio on February 08, 2012, 06:06:26 PM
Welcome to the forums!

Well, basically you get the board, get the parts, download the .pdf from here for the board you bought, install the parts on the PCB, set up your enclosure, wire it all up. The documentation you get with the board will only show where the parts go and how it is wired up. no step by step. it will also give any important options for mods or part swap options.

What board did you buy?

I just did my first and had MANY questions before i even started. Be sure to search the forums and utilize the links section to visit and use other websites and forums as well.

i bought my parts from Small Bear and had a lot of noob questions which Steve answered for me (SB owner)
i got my enclosure from Pedal Parts Plus as they have great finishing options.

Anyway- ask questions- do searches and read- and be prepared. if you have never soldered before for example you will DEF want to practice first before possibly damaging your parts or your PCB.

Good luck!

Clifford
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 08, 2012, 07:09:59 PM
Thank you Cliff, I assumed that was the case. I want to make a Green Bean. Now it's time for the scary task of finding the parts online :)
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: Om_Audio on February 08, 2012, 07:29:04 PM
FYI if you are buying from SB and using a Madbean PCB it is very likely you can tell SB what you are building and send them the pdf build sheet and they can put the order together for you. i seem to recall SB and madbean having some sort of working relationship- or SB maybe kept parts lists on file for Madbean projects.
C
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 08, 2012, 07:43:16 PM
awesome! i was just looking at SB and am starting to understand the parts. How much did your pedal cost to build from scratch? I see people trying to sell TS808 clone kits for around 80 but I assume it'd be much cheaper to buy all the parts individually right?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: Om_Audio on February 08, 2012, 07:50:42 PM
$80 sounds very competitive to me if you think of time saved shopping and such and also if enclosure is pre-drilled and so forth- but i can look at my receipts they are at home on my desk. Can send info later. i'd make an initial guess that maybe you save $20 bucks or so. maybe more.

I just checked- my cost was about $73 but I had to order knobs separate so the fewer sources the less tax/shipping etc.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: saxoftenest on February 09, 2012, 12:10:42 PM
Welcome!

Brian's docs for his boards are awesome, just be sure to familiarize yourself with the whole thing. Since you're looking to build a Green Bean, consider the suggested mods and be sure the parts associated with them end up in your parts order!

One note on the build doc (http://madbeanpedals.com/projects/GreenBean/docs/GreenBean.pdf) - the parts list omits what we consider "standard wiring" parts (jacks, 3pdt switch, etc.). So, be sure you also reference the Madbean Standard Wiring Diagram (http://madbeanpedals.com/tutorials/downloads/StandardWiring_MBP.pdf).

To sum up and add a few suggestions:
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 09, 2012, 02:26:54 PM
Thank you guys so much for your help so far. I wrote in this forum without much other than a stroke of inspiration to start understanding how to build pedals. I've done a lot of research since yesterday and feel a little more comfortable with searching for parts (the whole mF/uF had me confused for a tiny bit). I emailed the owner of small bear and he suggested that I purchase a tweak-o to start out with... although I kind of want to save the cash and just play it very carefully with the Bean. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 09, 2012, 02:33:15 PM
If you are careful and take your time, you should be ok. Soldering can be tricky, and it does take practice. Keep in mind more solder does not always mean a better connection. Neatness, especially when soldering, counts.

Be prepared to do some troubleshooting. I have had pedals fire up and work right off the bat, and I've had more than a couple pedals give me trouble. Of course, if you run into any problems, we will be more than happy to assist you.

My first pedal was a madbean Fat Pants, and it turned out OK. The Green Bean doesn't have TOO high of a parts count, and it is fairly straight forward; you should be OK. Triple check your parts order; too many times I've put in an order only to realize that I forgot 1 resistor or capacitor; it's really annoying.

Do you have a  digital multimeter and/or a signal probe? If not, I would highly suggest getting them. A signal probe is easy to make, and a good dmm can be purchased on amazon for under 20 bucks.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 09, 2012, 02:39:13 PM
Also, when ordering your parts, make sure to purchase diodes. They are left blank as many people who build overdrives and distortions like to mix and match diode combinations. On a related note, make sure you also purchase sockets for your IC (if you want the classic TS808, go with a JRC 4558) and for your diodes. Here are smallbear links to those items.


http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=101
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=100

Sockets are soldered onto the circuit board, then the component placed on top. Many components such as diodes, transistors, and opamps (ic's) are heat sensitive, and it is best not to expose those components to the heat of a soldering iron.

As for diodes, there are a LOT. The more common ones are 3mm LEDs, BAT41, 1n914, and 1n34As. (at least those are the ones I've used most often) Each of them have their own slightly different characteristics. Which one is best is for you to listen to and decide.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 09, 2012, 02:58:32 PM
Thanks Charlie.. i'm definitely going to quadruple check the parts and get spares. I'm getting interested in doing this modification. What do you think about it? I'm having trouble finding the parts I would need to get to do it instead of the stock parts. What are your thoughts?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=363310

http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.com/2008/03/clay-jones-od-grandlaff-dynnamic.html
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 09, 2012, 03:12:20 PM
OPA2134:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=584

I have this opamp in my Serendipity (Zen Drive Clone) and I love it.

As for the "clippers" that he talks about, those are the diodes. I suggest you socket D1-D5 and see what you like. The 3mm LEDs in the Green Bean are replaced with 5mm red LEDs in the Langraff. It looks like the langraff uses 1n914 diodes.

It looks like the potentiometer values are different as well. Gain is a 1 meg linear, Tone is a 25k linear, and the volume is still the same 100k Audio.

Unless I'm wrong (someone please correct me if I am), it looks like C3 is a 51pf instead of a 100 pf, as well.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 09, 2012, 03:16:16 PM
R7 looks to be a 47k instead of the 10k in the Green Bean. There are couple other small changes, but unfortunately, I am not as good as some of the others on here at reading schematics. I am going to have to defer to their expertise (wait for them to respond, lol)
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: jtn191 on February 09, 2012, 03:50:29 PM
R7 looks to be a 47k instead of the 10k in the Green Bean.

I think ya might have gotten those mixed up, R7 is 47k on the stock Green Bean BOM but it is 10k on the CJOD according to Soulsonic. BTW, ckim715, have you tried the OPA2134A in the Neutrino/Eternity? Curious how that'd sound...

I'll try to write up a complete BOM for the CJOD and update it here...I'm hoping they use corresponding components--otherwise an Open Source TS PCB might be the way to go
Differences are in yellow

R1: OMIT
R2: 1k
R3: 510k
R4: 10k
R5: 10k
R6: 1k
R7: 10k
R8: 1k
R9: OMIT?  ???
R10: 220R
R11: 1k
R12: 1k
R13: 510k
R14: 10k
R15: 100R
R16: 10k
R17: JUMPER
R18: 10k
R19: 10k

C1: 20n   (aka 0.02uF)
C2: 1uF
C3: 51pF*
C4: 220nF
C5: Socket this position...try something like 150nF? If your fat switch sounds too dark, try something at a lower value
C6: 220nF (aka 0.22uF)
C7: 220nF  (")
C8: 1uF
C9: 100nF
C10: 10uF
C11: 47uF
C12: 100uF

D1-D5: 3mm red LED (or your choice for mod)
D6 1N4001


Q1: BC546B *check pinout
Q2: BC546B *check pinout

IC1: OPA2134A

-----same switches as in stock BOM-----

Drive: 1Meg Log
Tone: 25k reverse taper
Vol: 10k reverse taper

* check here for nF, pF to uF conversion http://www.justradios.com/uFnFpF.html

Enjoy  8) I'm mostly sure about this. Imma post it in the mods section too
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 09, 2012, 04:13:30 PM
Haven't tried it in a Neutrino, but I did try it in a Tubescreamer that I built. Should be similar, as the Eternity/Neutrino is a YATS. Sounds very nice, I like the Burr Brown chips over the 4558s.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 09, 2012, 05:33:18 PM
Awesome!! I'm at work so i'm just glancing at this for a second, but when I get home I'm going to look at this in detail and try to absorb it haha, and then purchase these parts. I'm so stoked to make a pedal that sounds great :D.. kinda feel the way I did when I got my first guitar :). Thank you guys again for all the help. I'm really gracious the pedal modding community is so helpful and encouraging.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 10, 2012, 10:36:44 AM
Okay so here's my next question. I'm at the point of ordering parts. I was going to buy them from small bear but I'm afraid of receiving the parts without any part names on them. I'm thinking of getting the parts that I need for the DS-1 project I want to do and the Green Bean from Mouser (or some other place recommended), but I wanted to know what the difference is between all these parts???? for example I'll type in .47uf into the search and a billion results show up for the capacitors. small bear gave me a SKU number for a Capacitor, Panasonic ECQ-V (.047 mf.), but I was wondering does it matter if I get a different kind/how do I know what is okay? this is the list for the DS-1 mod I want to do btw.

C1, C10, C11----0.047mF SKU 1101B
C2----0.68mF SKU 1105
C3, C5----0.068mF SKU 1150
C4----470pF SKU 1101
C8----0.47mF SKU 1105
C9----0.47mF
C12, C13----0.1mF 1101B
C14----1mF NP (non-polarized) SKU 1106
47pF cap across the clipping diodes. SKU 1311

R13---2.7K
R39---20K
R16----1.5K (could wire a 2K or 5K pot here for a mid control)
R11---33K (lowers gain)(stock is 100K)
R9----1K (lowers gain, lower value = more gain)(stock is 22ohms)
R17---6.1K

D4---3mm Water Clear High Brightness Red LED SKU 2304

in series with 20K resistor, 1N270 SKU 2201

Select using a DPDT (on-on) SKU 0220

You can add another diode in series with either D4 or D5 for asymmetrical clipping. Its an interesting little addition try it

R35---2.2K
5mm Water Clear High Brightness Blue LED (this is a new check LED) SKU 2302

it was taken from the "Ultimate DS-1" mod thread in a google search :P


P.S. was anybody able to figure out what to do with R9 on the green bean mod?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: ckim715 on February 10, 2012, 12:46:11 PM
I personally order all my component parts (resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc.) from Mouser. They are a bit hard to order from, as their layout can be daunting, but I find their shipping times and overall costs to be cheaper than Small Bear. Also, the components all come separated in their own little baggies and are clearly marked. Very convenient.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 10, 2012, 12:50:40 PM
Okay how should I decipher which may be the right type of part?? like .47uf provides several thousand different results .. scary .. :-X :'( :-*
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: saxoftenest on February 10, 2012, 01:35:55 PM
As a noob, you may want to hold off on Mouser. It's hard enough getting all the parts in the right place the first time around, and if you're wondering if it even IS correct in the first place... hmm.

I would recommend going through Mammoth Electronics (http://www.mammothelectronics.com/Default.asp). Pedal-specific like Small Bear, but all parts labeled clearly like Mouser.

One thing to note about Mammoth: caps and resistors are listed in "Passives".
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 10, 2012, 09:27:04 PM
so i finally ordered my parts for the DS-1 mod. one of the parts off mouser was on back order.. a 6.1k resistor. i was wondering is it a big deal if i use a 6.04 resistor instead?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on February 14, 2012, 04:21:03 PM
so i finally ordered my parts for the DS-1 mod. one of the parts off mouser was on back order.. a 6.1k resistor. i was wondering is it a big deal if i use a 6.04 resistor instead?

6.04 should be fine but where did you find one of those?

You can always measure with the DMM too. You can also teepee resistors so if you can find 2 values that add up to 6.1...not likely...but this works when dealing with larger numbers many times.

For a teepee you just twist 2 wires together (butt up two ends) solder, and clip off the excess.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: DuctTapeRiot on February 17, 2012, 12:09:41 PM
Sounds like you already got your order in, but there is a mouser ordering tutorial post here: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=2970.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=2970.0) that has a lot of known good part numbers.  The biggest risks for a new person ordering from Mouser, at least from my perspective are:
- Capacitor sizes and voltage ratings.  If not careful you could wind up with fist or thumb sized caps.
- Ordering SMD parts instead of through hole. (SMD are tiny surface mount parts that are quite hard to solder by hand.

Keep in mind too that Mouser is not cheaper for everything.  Cerntainly resistors, caps, and a lot of transistors, ICs etc.  (and IC sockets) are cheaper there, but stuff like DC jacks, 1/4in jacks, enclosures, switches, seem to be cheaper at Mammoth or SB.  The trick, especially for me as someone not in the US, is balancing whether the extra cost for somethings on mouser is enought to offset extra shipping costs for somewhere else.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on February 18, 2012, 05:32:12 PM
yea i already made an error in getting a couple resistors that aren't through hole. Luckily all this stuff isn't TOO expensive.. mostly shipping being the primary cost. i'm waiting on my soldering station to come in and then I'm gonna try to practice some solders/order the correct parts
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 03, 2012, 08:33:55 PM
hey guys, so i'm soldering all my components on the board. I'm about to solder the JRC4558D to the board. There's a circle on one end of it. Is that the end that goes into the square hole in the greenbean pcb? there isn't a little scoop that reflects the orientation.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on March 04, 2012, 08:00:50 AM
I highly recommend to use a socket on all IC's for several reasons. They are sensitive to heat and should you ever have to replace it you don't even want to think about try to desolder that thing.

The dot signifies pin one on the IC.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 04, 2012, 12:42:18 PM
yea after looking at other users' pictures of their fabricated green beans, i realized this problem. i already soldered it on but i have a bunch of spares so i'm going to desolder it and chuck it. the only part now that is really intimidating me is now at this point is wiring. In soldering the wires to the switches for bright/fat (which have two holes on the pcb) do I solder two wires to connect together the three points on the on/on switch? the other thing i was confused about was star grounding. I tried looking up the concept but don't really understand how to do it. my casing is coming in the mail but won't be here for a few more days i believe.

P.S. thanks again everyone for the help thus far. steep learning curve from ground zero but i'm really beginning to understand a lot of the process. it feels like i have a kid who's about to take the winning shot at a basketball game... if this thing works after all is said and done, i'm going to shit myself.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: Om_Audio on March 04, 2012, 03:18:39 PM
LOL-  :D
...if this thing works after all is said and done, i'm going to shit myself.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on March 04, 2012, 07:26:57 PM
Monkey I don't know this circuit but have you reviewed some of Bean's wiring diagrams? I think that will help you on the star grounding. I'm sitting in the waiting room of an ER so I can't really check out the Green Bean circuit loile I need to in order to know how the switch is wired.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 05, 2012, 11:34:34 AM
Oh man, I hope everything is all right :\


I'm going to check the wiring diagram again later today after i get off work. I may have read the explanations too fast on google, but I couldn't really understand the concept of how to actually do it. Excuse me if I missed something obvious
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: DuctTapeRiot on March 05, 2012, 03:16:58 PM
Hi Monkey,

For your fat and bright switches , you just need wire to the center lug of the switch, and either of the two outer lugs.  You are using this "On-On" switch as a On-Off by not having anything attached to the third lug, and all it is doing is either breaking (off) or completing (on) that part of the circuit.

For star grounding, the idea as I understand it is that all your grounds should tie into one single point, and not form any loops.  In my pedals I run one wire from the isolated DC jack, to the Sleeve of my input jack, which then becomes the "Center" of my star, and other grounds run out from there.  So for example, the output jack is grounded from the input sleeve, through the encosure, to the sleeve of the output.  If you also ran a grounding wire from the output to input sleeve, you would be making a ground loop as the output jack would be grounded  2 ways, once through the wire and once through the enclosure.  Hope that makes sense?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 07, 2012, 09:54:56 PM
oh man i'm so glad you replied this information. i'm just now working on the bright/fat switches


thanks d.t.r.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 08, 2012, 04:56:53 AM
so i just finished the green bean.. its quite the frankenstein  :-X and it works... BUT there's a HUGE dramatic volume drop and i'm not sure what it may be. The way the pedal was setup is kind of weird as well.... in that i drilled the holes on the enclosure kind of shittily and got to a point where either the input jack would touch the stomp switch or it would touch the 9v battery..

after spending hours and hours making this thing i needed to test it and i couldn't find an answer on the boards so i drilled another hole in the enclosure, stuck the 9v sleeve outside the case and ran the pedal with the battery outside the case. anyways not sure what may be wrong as all the switches seem to do what they were intended to do.

if anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on March 08, 2012, 07:07:31 AM
Monk, I think at this point what I'd do is post some pics and put it up in the tech help forum. Get some good shots of both sides of the boards and all the jack and footswitch wiring. Without pics it is sort of a shot in the dark here.

Needless to say you can't have things touching each other but I guess you took care of that. It will short the signal to ground if you haven't.

Not sure if you wired with buffer or true bypass. If true bypass it sounds like some of that signal is leaking back into the board and or to ground, but that is where the pics come in handy for the experts....of which I'm not even close  :'(
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 08, 2012, 08:24:14 PM
it works!

i'm shitting myself right now
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: DuctTapeRiot on March 08, 2012, 08:29:09 PM
Nice! What was the issue in the end?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 08, 2012, 09:00:44 PM
i think it was the battery being outside??? i'm not sure... either that or a wire that was soldered to the board from the stomp switch was cold. the only issue i'm noticing now is a bit of fizzy squeals from the bright switch when it's activated... but i'm so happy. this pedal sounds wonderful
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on March 09, 2012, 09:26:22 AM
Did you do anything at all to fix it, or did you just pop it back in the box?
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 09, 2012, 11:47:27 AM
i did resolder a wire to the board that broke off when i was taking it out a third time... but before i'm pretty sure the solder connection on that wire to the board was fine. Other than that, i did nothing to fix anything other than try the battery in the box.... strange... but it sounds wonderful. I can't really hear the differences when the fat switch is on. can certainly hear the differences with the bright switch, so I think i'm going to go back later today or tomorrow and try to resolder the fat switch wires.

i just bought a tap tempo tremolo from musicpcb so i'm really excited to start that project next
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: TNblueshawk on March 09, 2012, 12:29:17 PM
Cool. Well, maybe it was something as simple as the signal was getting shorted the first time around but it is not now.

Sometimes some cap values are so close my ears don't detect much of a difference, but you should at least detect a slight difference when you switch it.

But, good luck.
Title: Re: Bought my board. Where do I go from here?
Post by: monkeyssj1 on March 09, 2012, 01:27:38 PM
just wanted to thank everyone who has posted on this board and offered there input. i've learned a lot in the past two weeks and there's no way i would've been able to complete this build without your guys' guidance or the forums wealth of information. definitely going to build the pedals i want from here on out.

thanks again everybody