Pondering the kind of stuff I should keep on hand for breadboarding. Does anyone have anything not on this list that I should track down? Not necessarily what you use on a regular basis, but just things that you think are cool and might sound different.
I have the following:
Germanium
Smallbear generic 1n34a work-alikes
1n60
1n100
1n192
1n270 (my favorite, it's a shame they're so expensive)
Silicon
Bat41/6
1n4001/2/7
1n914
40809 (glass case silicon)
1S1588
LEDs
Every diffused color
I also have a few unusual Shotkys (5158 etc), 4148s, a few gigantic plastic vintage diodes, and Zeners, but I'm not sure if they really work as clipping diodes. I guess I could find out pretty easily, but anyway ...
There are a few rare diodes that I can't find anywhere, like Ge reference diodes and MA856, and I know that I can use transistors and Mosfets as clippers.
i guess if you want to be thorough you could include 1n695 germanium and bat85.
that's already a pretty good list though.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing yesterday and cruising the suppliers to see what I didn't have. Do you have the $2.50 1S1588's from PPP? Apparently that's what I put in my Aristocrat, but I'm not terribly interested in spending that much per diode again. I've also heard some suggestions that those are "work-alikes" and not real 1S1588's, but I don't have a clue (a.) if that's true, or (b.) if that matters.
I've still got a couple of MA856's left over from my Aristocrat, but I'm going to save them up for a screamer or a modified Bluesbreaker one of these days.
Quote from: mgwhit on June 20, 2012, 02:54:11 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing yesterday and cruising the suppliers to see what I didn't have. Do you have the $2.50 1S1588's from PPP? Apparently that's what I put in my Aristocrat, but I'm not terribly interested in spending that much per diode again. I've also heard some suggestions that those are "work-alikes" and not real 1S1588's, but I don't have a clue (a.) if that's true, or (b.) if that matters.
I've still got a couple of MA856's left over from my Aristocrat, but I'm going to save them up for a screamer or a modified Bluesbreaker one of these days.
https://www.effectsconnection.com has 1S1588s for waaaaaay less than $2.50. They were Brian's suggestion (though you need some google-fu to find out where! hehe :)). I didn't even see that PPP had them.
Effects Connection is switching management right now, but they have very good prices on some weird stuff. That's where my 1n100s came from, too.
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM
i guess if you want to be thorough you could include 1n695 germanium and bat85.
that's already a pretty good list though.
Definitely 1n695's. They are really great sounding Ge's. I like them better than the 1N60's and the 1N34 for most applications.
Quote from: JakeFuzz on June 20, 2012, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM
i guess if you want to be thorough you could include 1n695 germanium and bat85.
that's already a pretty good list though.
Definitely 1n695's. They are really great sounding Ge's. I like them better than the 1N60's and the 1N34 for most applications.
Cool. I'm cruising E-bay for the ones you and Keith suggested and finding a bunch of cool stuff in small lots, including some OA126s, which have a ridiculously high clipping threshold for Ge diodes.
Quote from: midwayfair on June 20, 2012, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: JakeFuzz on June 20, 2012, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM
i guess if you want to be thorough you could include 1n695 germanium and bat85.
that's already a pretty good list though.
Definitely 1n695's. They are really great sounding Ge's. I like them better than the 1N60's and the 1N34 for most applications.
Cool. I'm cruising E-bay for the ones you and Keith suggested and finding a bunch of cool stuff in small lots, including some OA126s, which have a ridiculously high clipping threshold for Ge diodes.
Oooh yeah those are interesting .72 volts is more like the the Vf of a Si diode. I wonder if they sound good. Ill go halvsies on that big batch of 50 with you if you want to get some.
Quote from: JakeFuzz on June 20, 2012, 03:22:07 PM
Quote from: midwayfair on June 20, 2012, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: JakeFuzz on June 20, 2012, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM
i guess if you want to be thorough you could include 1n695 germanium and bat85.
that's already a pretty good list though.
Definitely 1n695's. They are really great sounding Ge's. I like them better than the 1N60's and the 1N34 for most applications.
Cool. I'm cruising E-bay for the ones you and Keith suggested and finding a bunch of cool stuff in small lots, including some OA126s, which have a ridiculously high clipping threshold for Ge diodes.
Oooh yeah those are interesting .72 volts is more like the the Vf of a Si diode. I wonder if they sound good. Ill go halvsies on that big batch of 50 with you if you want to get some.
Sure thing. I just ordered a cart full of interesting diodes including that lot of 50. PM me. :)
Edit: This is what I ended up getting, for anyone curious:
10x D9D Germanium
20x BA100 Black Glass
10x D9K Germanium
10x 1N695 (black glass)
20x 1N60P Germanium (new production)
10x OA1160 Germanium
10x OA95 Gold Bonded
10x 1N695 Germanium (teal and red stripes)
50x OA126 Black Glass
50x Bat85 new production (for $4!)
Er ... I also may have ordered a lot of 50 1n34a last night (it was on sale for $9, who can resist?), and I'm waiting on another order of 25x each of 1n100 and 1S1588 ... so that puts me at somewhere north of 400 diodes mainly intended for clipping in the house. Obviously I'm never going to use that many, so I'm thinking I'll do a couple little kits for people in the emporium after I have them all in hand, so that some other builders have a chance to use the more interesting ones (and maybe find a new favorite).
Quote from: midwayfair on June 20, 2012, 03:27:35 PM
Sure thing. I just ordered a cart full of interesting diodes including that lot of 50. PM me. :)
Edit: This is what I ended up getting, for anyone curious:
10x D9D Germanium
20x BA100 Black Glass
10x D9K Germanium
10x 1N695 (black glass)
20x 1N60P Germanium (new production)
10x OA1160 Germanium
10x OA95 Gold Bonded
10x 1N695 Germanium (teal and red stripes)
50x OA126 Black Glass
50x Bat85 new production (for $4!)
Er ... I also may have ordered a lot of 50 1n34a last night (it was on sale for $9, who can resist?), and I'm waiting on another order of 25x each of 1n100 and 1S1588 ... so that puts me at somewhere north of 400 diodes mainly intended for clipping in the house. Obviously I'm never going to use that many, so I'm thinking I'll do a couple little kits for people in the emporium after I have them all in hand, so that some other builders have a chance to use the more interesting ones (and maybe find a new favorite).
I would be soooooooo interested in one of those little kits your talking about, what would it take to get one?
Paul
Quote from: midwayfair on June 20, 2012, 03:02:32 PM
https://www.effectsconnection.com has 1S1588s for waaaaaay less than $2.50. They were Brian's suggestion (though you need some google-fu to find out where! hehe :)). I didn't even see that PPP had them.
Effects Connection is switching management right now, but they have very good prices on some weird stuff. That's where my 1n100s came from, too.
Thanks for the tip, Jon! I'm all over those.
Quote from: DutchMF on June 20, 2012, 04:25:59 PMI would be soooooooo interested in one of those little kits your talking about, what would it take to get one?
Paul
Give me some time to get the diodes in hand and (a) do some math regarding what they cost me and (b) find out if there's anything I really love and just can't bear to part with :). I'm going to be fairly limited what I can give up from the lots of 10x (I want to keep at least four of each to cover doubled/series/switched configs), but I'm thinking I'll do two or three "super kits" with a pair of everything I have, and then make a decent deal on an assortment of the more common ones with a small number of the rarer ones. The point would be expanding people's breadboarding and testing supply, not necessarily setting people up with stuff to solder. Obviously since I'm just getting parts from E-bay and online retailers, though, if anyone wants more than a couple of any given diode, they're better off getting them from a real supplier.
put me down for a kit when you get them ready
Quote from: midwayfair on June 20, 2012, 04:41:48 PM
Give me some time to get the diodes in hand and (a) do some math regarding what they cost me and (b) find out if there's anything I really love and just can't bear to part with :). I'm going to be fairly limited what I can give up from the lots of 10x (I want to keep at least four of each to cover doubled/series/switched configs), but I'm thinking I'll do two or three "super kits" with a pair of everything I have, and then make a decent deal on an assortment of the more common ones with a small number of the rarer ones. The point would be expanding people's breadboarding and testing supply, not necessarily setting people up with stuff to solder. Obviously since I'm just getting parts from E-bay and online retailers, though, if anyone wants more than a couple of any given diode, they're better off getting them from a real supplier.
Time is no problem, and (a) that's kinda hard, but we can work out the financials through PM-ing, bet we can work something out, I definitely want to pay a fair price. Regarding (b): you own the stuff the moment it arrives at your doorstep, and I trust your judgement on what you can or can't part with ;)
As for testing/breadboarding: I socket all of the diodes in my overdrives and am currently in the process of getting together a Mudbunny board with
only sockets, to get me that bit closer to the perfect fuzz.
What I'm trying to say: I would like to get some diodes that are hard to get, I don't want to buy everything you have and it would be best if as many people as possible could enjoy your diode frenzy!
Paul
Did you mention 1n695s? Those are the Percolator/Pepper Spray ones, right? What other circuits have folks tried these in?
Your kits will be hard to resist...I will be on the lookout!
Quote from: Bret608 on June 20, 2012, 08:06:25 PM
Did you mention 1n695s? Those are the Percolator/Pepper Spray ones, right? What other circuits have folks tried these in?
Your kits will be hard to resist...I will be on the lookout!
I use them in all kinds of different circuits. They sound great anywhere another Ge diode is too fizzy. They are my favorite in the Sunking with a BAT85. I've also used them in the KoK, the pepperspray, the neutrino, the TB MKIII and probably a few others. I recommend them.
Midwayfair,
I too am also in the waaaaaaaaaaaay interested in a kit category! If you end up making these kits could you please add my name to the list for one? I think it would be much like Christmas in July!!
B
Yikes. I'm going to need to order more as soon as they arrive! :)
I don't mean to alarm anyone, but I just saw that Tayda now has 1n34as. New production, no doubt, by check out the price ...
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/diodes/germanium.html
Just a heads up on those 1n60P diodes, I ordered some from futurlec a while back. Well I really ordered 1n34a, but this is what they sent me. They are not germanium, they are silicon schottky diodes. Supposedly, they are a work alike for 1n34a diodes. Mine averaged forward voltage of .27-.28. Been meaning to use them in a muff or overdrive and see if I like them or not, but haven't done so yet.
-Dan
Quote from: dbharris on June 21, 2012, 08:50:30 PM
Just a heads up on those 1n60P diodes, I ordered some from futurlec a while back. Well I really ordered 1n34a, but this is what they sent me. They are not germanium, they are silicon schottky diodes. Supposedly, they are a work alike for 1n34a diodes. Mine averaged forward voltage of .27-.28. Been meaning to use them in a muff or overdrive and see if I like them or not, but haven't done so yet.
-Dan
Thanks, Dan.
They were $4, so I'm not going to quibble ... and I have (and can get more) "real" Ge 1N60s. It'll be interesting to compare the two.
I might prod the seller to remove Germanium from his description.
Quote from: dbharris on June 21, 2012, 08:50:30 PM
Just a heads up on those 1n60P diodes, I ordered some from futurlec a while back. Well I really ordered 1n34a, but this is what they sent me. They are not germanium, they are silicon schottky diodes. Supposedly, they are a work alike for 1n34a diodes. Mine averaged forward voltage of .27-.28. Been meaning to use them in a muff or overdrive and see if I like them or not, but haven't done so yet.
-Dan
I got some silicon 1N60s from Tayda last week. I tested them in my Green Russian spec Mudbunny build yesterday. Compared to the 1N914s, the Si 1N60s are quite smooth sounding.
@midwayfair - I think a lot of these sellers say they are germanium b/c the fv is similar and most people wont know the difference or check a data sheet. I always wondered if you had a set of germanium and si diodes with the exact same fv how different they would really sound. I would guess not a whole lot different, except maybe to people who have the "golden ears." I unfortunately was not blessed with those ears lol.
@whitebread - That's good to hear that you liked them. When I get around to my Greenbean I will definitely have them as one of the clipping options.
-Dan
Quote from: dbharris on June 21, 2012, 11:37:28 PMI would guess not a whole lot different, except maybe to people who have the "golden ears." I unfortunately was not blessed with those ears lol.
I certainly plan on testing it, especially because a few of the Ges have a much higher gain range. I definitely don't have golden ears. (Honestly, the number of things that I think sound good is damaging to my reputation as a Snob in All Things.)
I have a Lavache with BAT41s and 1N34As. I will say that the Germaniums sound consistently more compressed and bassy compared to Bat41s (which are really close Fv) than the compression comparison between 1N914s and BAT41s, even though the Fv difference is similar. But then, I can also hear a clear difference between 1N270s and 1N34As -- in this case, less compression and highs from the 1N34As, even though the 1N270s tend to clip a little lower.
There's a similar thing with Transistors to me. I can't hear the difference between op amps (except noise), but I can hear one between many different types of bipolar resistors. It could be some inherent inefficiency about Germanium. Germaniums have less high end than Silicons even when the Ge has almost identical leak/gain characteristics.
NDD (New Diode Day!)
Three of my shipments have arrived!
(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/new-diode-day.jpg)
BAT85s, a bunch of NOS 1n34a, 1n60s, 1N192s, 1N695s, some Soviet detector diodes and more.
I have two more pretty sizable shipments, coming from Ukraine and Russia. (The one from Russia has a bunch of those small NPN Germanium transistors -- I'm really excited to build some stuff with them.) I should have them by the end of the week, and then I can start assembling kits for everyone. Of course ... many of the kits I can make are already spoken for from this thread ....
I find that despite having something on the order of 40 kinds of diodes, I only end up ever using a few types (for clipping):
• 1N914 / 1N4148
• Diffused LED
• Water-clear LED
• BAT41 or other Schottky type
Woo! Love getting parts in the mail :)
You can also use FETs for clipping, i'm going to do some testing real soon.
This is what i have for testing:
J201
MPF102
2N5457
2N4416A
I'll post the results here in case it could interest other people :)
You can also use just about any transistor as a clipping diode.
This is a great way to use those old leaky germanium transistors that are too weak for use in a fuzz or boost.
Yeah, I've got several old metal can leaky transistors that make neat clippers. Plus they look cool. (They're from Luciferstrip on DIYstompboxes ... his garage sale is great. I also got a board with some big mojo metal caps and metal Si diodes that I'll be making something fun with.)
I wanted to focus on diodes specifically, though.
I did get some diode testing done last night, but I need to tune the test circuit I'm using. Since I wanted to make sure I was hearing only the diodes' clipping and not OP amp or transistor distortion, I needed a high headroom clean circuit. So I'm just using a very basic TL072 circuit with absolute minimal components, but getting it loud enough to clip the silicon diodes (Germaniums clip fine) without overdriving the chip is a challenge that I couldn't meet in the 30 minutes I had to spend playing with it last night. :)
Right now my thoughts are to either throw a charge pump on there, use a TL074 instead (I'm worried about the headroom on the second stage, though), or maybe do something else super clever like just use a Bacon Bits ...
I think maybe you should also test the diodes with an amplifier (either op amp or tranny) that is clipping a little bit. I say that because that's generally how the diodes are used, so having an "application test" is a good companion to the "control" test.
Diode-only clipping is not very common in 9v effects circuits.
Every 1n34a I have ever see looked like this:(http://www.etronic-parts.com/images/product_images/info_images/413_0.JPG)
The tayda 1n34a looks like this:(http://www.taydaelectronics.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/o/do-35-new_1.jpg)
These might be a workalike. I cannot comment about how they would sound. Probably pretty good. I have not been doing this as long as most in the forums and I could be mistaken.
Quote from: atreidesheir on June 26, 2012, 08:35:11 PM
Every 1n34a I have ever see looked like this:(http://www.etronic-parts.com/images/product_images/info_images/413_0.JPG)
The tayda 1n34a looks like this:(http://www.taydaelectronics.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/o/do-35-new_1.jpg)
These might be a workalike. I cannot comment about how they would sound. Probably pretty good. I have not been doing this as long as most in the forums and I could be mistaken.
I have black banded 1N34as (various sources), green-and-red banded (Smallbear workalike/generic), green-and-orange banded (from Scott's electronics) ... they come in different packages, but all have similar or identical performance.
The Tayda picture isn't actually a picture of the diode. They use generic drawings for all their parts, not photos. They only sell new production stuff, so they don't need to prove that the parts are genuine like with NOS parts.
That looks like a 'generic diode icon' to me. If you look at the IC pages, f'r instance, they'll have pictures of generic computer-rendered 14pin (or whatever) IC's with no markings.
If anyone orders some Tayda 1n34a's and BAT41's, post some pix of the RL example.
Quote from: alanp on June 26, 2012, 09:43:53 PM
That looks like a 'generic diode icon' to me. If you look at the IC pages, f'r instance, they'll have pictures of generic computer-rendered 14pin (or whatever) IC's with no markings.
If anyone orders some Tayda 1n34a's and BAT41's, post some pix of the RL example.
I'm getting some with my next order. :)
I tested all the diodes today. I'll post my findings in the kits thread. Might take a few days, and I'll have another half dozen or more to test soon.
Please do not think I am a hater. I just received a huge Tayda order a few weeks ago. I am a customer. So if they are managing to source some germanium pieces, that is good news for us.
I'm just coming out of my meth lab........and here are the results of my FET clipping......science have once again proved me that it worth it to fool around.
So i tried, J201, BS170, 2N5457 and MPF102, did'nt want to scrap up a NOS Motorola 2N4416A......
For a strange reason that i don't really understand, the MPF102 gave the best results.
I did the testing in the latest CJ Dist Plus that i built...., all except the MPF102 really killed the headroom and overall volume.
The MPF102 matched with a 1N270 gave me a real tight modern distortion sound wich was really enjoyable.
With the FET and the other diode lifted, it sounded similar to Led-Lifted combo, but with more chunk and low end response.
Really worth the try ;)
Midwayfair,
Christmas in July!! On the same day I received your diode kit, I received a custom etch from Harbadasher!! I think I'm going to build out my Sunking and breadboard all of these diodes. Considering all of the gigs that I have, it might take me 'till August to get to a report. But, believe me when I say you have set the bar on the level of "thorough" expected. Thanks a TON!! ;D
"B" RehmGerdes
Quote from: BRGPollen on July 09, 2012, 04:48:03 AMConsidering all of the gigs that I have
#Firstworldproblems. :D j/k
Thanks, man. I hope you enjoy them.
Update on the above discussion about Tayda's 1N34A germanium diodes: They turned out to be the same package as their 1N914s -- very small, glass, and gold contacts inside. They look almost identical to the 1N914s. I suspect that they're like the 1N60Ps, a silicon workalike for the Germaniums, but I'll try the "finger trick" to see if I can change the Fv by touching them with my finger to verify if they're really Ge or Si. (Just like germanium transistors, Germanium diodes react easily to heat.)
Even if the turn out to be real germanium, if the Fv is right then this is good news for building projects that use Ge diodes as rectifiers, like the Afterlife or Green Ringer. I'd certainly like to use four $0.07 diodes than four $0.75 diodes.
Just received 100 1n60p diodes from tayda. I figured if they are workalikes, so be it.
I agree with midwayfair. LOOK like run of the mill silicons.
But on another note:
This is a link to guitarpcb advertising 1n60p germanium diodes for $2.25/10 pack.
http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3276935 (http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3276935)
Not too bad maybe, but the photo(http://staticthumbs3.freewebs.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/THUMBS/fa/15/fa15f506c3d0d6adc392aeea9499c517.jpg)
Looks exactly like the 1n60p from Tayda. I understand they are probably generic diode picture stock.
Quote from: atreidesheir on July 25, 2012, 03:15:35 AM
Just received 100 1n60p diodes from tayda. I figured if they are workalikes, so be it.
I agree with midwayfair. LOOK like run of the mill silicons.
But on another note:
This is a link to guitarpcb advertising 1n60p germanium diodes for $2.25/10 pack.
http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3276935 (http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3276935)
Not too bad maybe, but the photo(http://staticthumbs3.freewebs.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/THUMBS/fa/15/fa15f506c3d0d6adc392aeea9499c517.jpg)
Looks exactly like the 1n60p from Tayda. I understand they are probably generic diode picture stock.
Yeah, the Semtechs are basically the same as the ones Tayda sells (manufactured by DC). I got 1N60Ps from a guy on Ebay that are yet another manufacturer, but they still look the same. If I had to guess, I'd say they're all coming from the same factory and then being branded afterward. Like cars.
The DO-7 package is the old style familiar glass package with black rings. They sound slightly different (darker and more compressed) than the new production silicons (the two different ones I've gotten pretty much sounded identical) but they have the same forward voltage. I used the silicon ones in the rectifier network of an Afterlife and they were perfect for that application, since they were a fraction of the price of a 1N270 and you can match them very easily.
These ARE silicon for sure, by the way, and so is Tayda's 1N34A, which not only has the wrong Fv (it's over 6) but does not pass the applied heat test to change the forward voltage. I won't order those again, unless someone orders them and gets a completely different result, in which case I'll consider the possibility of them having labeled them wrong or something.
guitar pcb link specifically says germanium. I do not believe it is intentionally deceptive, if it is inaccurate. Two years ago I bought real NOS 1n34 germaniums for $0.35 each. That was the best price I could find online at the time so I bought 100 and stocked up. Maybe a llifetime supply. It is funny perhaps I will buy germanium diodes, but purposefully avoid ge transistors. I do not like crap shoots. My builds are crappy enough without the parts being another weak spot.
The sound is what matters. Should be my mantra.
Have a good one everybody.
I am sad and annoyed to report that Tayda's new 1N34A in the DO-7 package ALSO appears to be a silicon workalike and have the wrong forward voltage (~.65v). They don't pass the 'heat' test to increase their Fv. They SOUND just fine, but they won't work where any of us typically use 1N34As for their clipping properties. I'm a little ticked off about this one, actually, because they're clearly made to look like the genuine article and were priced the same as new production 1N34As I can get on Ebay that are actually germanium and have the proper Fv.
As far as the Guitar PCB link goes, the Semtech ones actually do use Germanium. It makes buying this part number (1N60P) complicated ... I've ordered four different kinds now from various places, all but one of which said "Germanium," and only one has actually been Ge. However, I've generally preferred the sound and function of the silicon for these.
I guess Tayda must have changed their 1N34A's since then, as I just looked at some I ordered in the last month or so and they are see through glass with 2 black rings.
I've already used one out of a pack of 10, but the others read as follows:
0.239
0.229
0.227
0.232
0.227
0.238
0.241 (only had a single black band, oddly)
0.247
0.235
They also do seem temperature dependant as they took a bit to stabilise and then if I grip it in my hands, the reading goes slowly down about 0.001 per second...
Does all that look correct for 1N34A's?
They're $0.24 each.
Ian