madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => Build Reports => Topic started by: juansolo on July 08, 2012, 11:52:04 AM

Title: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 08, 2012, 11:52:04 AM
I don't normally post non-MB builds here, but this was fabbed by Haberdasher so I thought I would. That and I think it looks cool.

--

Reverse engineered by Galego on DIYSB , this is Slade's true-bypass and seriously shrunk down version of a Decimator.

We were originally wanting something along the original Alien poster with "in space no one can hear you scream" or with the Nostromo on it. Both would have been really dark which causes us all sorts of problems, so we try and avoid that. Instead Geiger's Alien Lifecycle 'doodle' really fit well and I knew would work nicely. Yep, it's intentional that the stomp is the chest burster ;)

(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/isp2-o.jpg)

(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/isp2-i.jpg)
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: night-B on July 08, 2012, 12:04:10 PM
As an alien and giger fan I really dig it! What do you think of the clone? Original decimator works really great.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: LaceSensor on July 08, 2012, 12:15:44 PM
love the artwork (giger / alien fan)
very inspiring work.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 08, 2012, 12:23:17 PM
As an alien and giger fan I really dig it! What do you think of the clone? Original decimator works really great.

Works very well indeed. I've got one that's more like the original (where it's essentially unbypassable) and it's functionally identical (when it's on). That and a WET Reverb are permanent residents in my effects loop.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: ncdb07 on July 08, 2012, 01:09:48 PM
Awesome build! Love the Graphics!
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: nzCdog on July 08, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
Tidy!  :o The graphic is great, one of those 'stare at for ages' illustrations...  I have to build this soon, I havre the board but been trying to catchup on all these cool projects :o
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 09, 2012, 05:47:52 PM
Hi Juan, i have a question about the LF353 IC in this project, i have the option of getting them with a common rejection ratio of 70db or 80db.

The original decimator have a treshold range that goes from -70db to +10db....

Will the op-amp make a difference in the lowest or highest settings?

Thanks

Rej
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: jimijam on July 09, 2012, 06:31:04 PM
nice build mate! I started this today with the g-string mod. I'm glad this project was made available. it's the best noise gate i've ever used.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 10, 2012, 05:25:51 AM
Hi Juan, i have a question about the LF353 IC in this project, i have the option of getting them with a common rejection ratio of 70db or 80db.

The original decimator have a treshold range that goes from -70db to +10db....

Will the op-amp make a difference in the lowest or highest settings?

Thanks

Rej

I don't know in all honesty, but I would expect it would be in the upper settings. I tend to find it squashes everything before you reach the end of the dial anyhow so I suspect it doesn't matter too much. As you'd never wind it round that far anyhow.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: jimmybjj on July 10, 2012, 06:47:54 AM
Juansolo, how much is the tone effected when the pedal is engaged? I built one based on the one before Slade released his most resent board, and I find there is a substantial difference. I don't think it is bad just different. I know you built the last one two, did you find this to be true?
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 10, 2012, 06:59:03 AM
Juansolo, how much is the tone effected when the pedal is engaged? I built one based on the one before Slade released his most resent board, and I find there is a substantial difference. I don't think it is bad just different. I know you built the last one two, did you find this to be true?

If you're talking about the pedal engaged but the gate wide open, I haven't noticed any tone suck. Likewise used subtley, it's one of least noticable gates I've come across, in a good way. Used heavy handedly it can certainly cut great chunks out of your signal.

Inevitably there will be some... But I can't hear it. My hearing ain't brilliant to be fair so YMMV.

Tonally, I couldn't tell the difference between the two pedals when we back-to-backed them.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: marauder on July 10, 2012, 07:17:25 AM
Hi Juan, i have a question about the LF353 IC in this project, i have the option of getting them with a common rejection ratio of 70db or 80db.

The original decimator have a treshold range that goes from -70db to +10db....

Will the op-amp make a difference in the lowest or highest settings?

Thanks

Rej

The last two we built have TL07x opamps and not the LF353.  We backed to backed them with the huge one that Juan orginally built and they sound the same.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 10, 2012, 07:38:30 AM
Shows how much attention I was paying when I assembled it ;)
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 10, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
Thanks for the answer Juan and Marauder. ;)

Just to add to the question about tone sucking, i currently have 2 original ISP Decimator in my high gain rig.

My guitar goes at first in a decimator, then goes 3 Boost/OD pedals and then through another decimator.

The first one is set at -40db and the second one at -30db, i've verified at low and at ear bleeding level if there was a serious tone sucking happening. Compared to the un-treated signal, there's a little hi-pass filtering happening, but nothing that hurts the tone, cuts pretty much everything over 15khz.

Compared to the stereo Rocktron HushSuperC i had before and Boss NS-2, there's no «compression effect» like those 2 make.

So if that circuit is true to the original, it's pure WIN! 8)
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: jkokura on July 10, 2012, 12:11:46 PM
If it's cutting above 15KHz, that's low pass filtering...

Jacob
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 10, 2012, 01:35:58 PM
Sorry..., it's what i wanted to say.... ::)

If it's cutting above 15KHz, that's low pass filtering...

Jacob
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on July 14, 2012, 05:18:43 PM
I don't suppose you've got a link to the build PDF handy have you?  There's a lot of pages to wade through on the thread and I like to have a nosey at the layout etc to see if I'm up to the level of understanding needed to build it before starting on working my way through all the posts.

Thanks
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 15, 2012, 06:42:43 AM
I don't suppose you've got a link to the build PDF handy have you?  There's a lot of pages to wade through on the thread and I like to have a nosey at the layout etc to see if I'm up to the level of understanding needed to build it before starting on working my way through all the posts.

Thanks


I've got a copy of the ones I've used in my stash here (http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/schematics/ISP/).

I haven't done the G-String one mind you.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on July 15, 2012, 06:53:33 AM
Fantastic.  Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 15, 2012, 09:28:43 AM
Juan, the Decimator layout you linked to seems to have a different BOM and layout from the one you built. What's the difference between these two?

ETA: Nevermind, I just realized I was looking at everything except for the PDF link at the bottom, which matches up to your build.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 15, 2012, 12:22:55 PM
Yeah I made the earlier one too, that's what the other docs are for:

(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/shhh-o.jpg)

(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/shhh-i.jpg)
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 15, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
Of the two, which do you prefer?
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 16, 2012, 01:21:33 AM
The big one is a straight clone of the original pedal. It's got on-board switching and is technically never off (the trimmer sets unity when the pedal is 'off'). I've tweaked the docs in my stash with the couple of changes that were needed for my build (and noted them on the BOM).

The Slade one is a simplified true bypass version. When on, they do the same job the same way. The newer board is particularly nicely done though and much easier to box up. That's the only real reason to pick one over the other really. Packaging and switching. Sonically I can't tell the difference between them.

There's a big thread over on DIYSB (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=88902.0) covering all this.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 16, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
Cheers, thanks! My roommate is hurting for a noise gate so I think I'll build him the newer, smaller one.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 16, 2012, 09:52:40 AM
I've tidied up the ISP folder in my schematic stash (http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/schematics/ISP/) so it should make more sense now as to what is what.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 16, 2012, 11:28:14 AM
Two more questions - does the smaller Slade board fit in a 1590B, or does it need a 125B? And is there an easily accessible BOM for the Slade version somewhere? I looked through the DIYSB thread but didn't see one, and I feel like it'll be really easy to miss something reading it off of the placement chart.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 16, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Not seen a BOM for it sadly.

Worth having a good look at mine in comparison to the layout to see where I've had to use small parts. It's VERY tight in places.

It will definitely fit in a little box. I've only put it in the medium one because the guy I made it for wanted battery provision and I couldn't get it in a small one with the battery.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Hangingmonkey on July 16, 2012, 01:13:50 PM
Nice pedal.  Im building one from the slade layout.  Board is mostly populated but am waiting for the infamous THAT chip.

What are you supposed to do to set the trimmer, is it a case of fiddling with it and setting it by ear?

Thanks
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 16, 2012, 01:16:38 PM
Thanks for all the info, Juan.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 16, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
Got 4 of these «Slade» boards coming in from Haderbasher, will see if we can stack 2 of them in a 125B...for stereo operation....

Really need to get rid of the 2 original decimator i have on my board....takes way too much place...
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 16, 2012, 04:07:41 PM
Nice pedal.  Im building one from the slade layout.  Board is mostly populated but am waiting for the infamous THAT chip.

What are you supposed to do to set the trimmer, is it a case of fiddling with it and setting it by ear?

Thanks

Yep, it sets unity. it's pretty easy with the new board. Doing it with the original I had to stick it in a switchable loop box I have to set it accurately.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on July 17, 2012, 04:49:11 AM
Iis there an easily accessible BOM for the Slade version somewhere? I looked through the DIYSB thread but didn't see one, and I feel like it'll be really easy to miss something reading it off of the placement chart.

Here's a BOM I drew up.  Pretty sure there's nothing missing but please let me know if you spot any errors.

EDIT: Updated version with all corrections made - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Se8TNVfzD8RIMDnX8gaMBsMLl4qP3QU10EGyK6uUJzk/edit?usp=sharing

Please note that this is for the Slade version that can be found in Juansolo's (very helpful) schematic stash http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/schematics/ISP/ISP%20Decimator%20Slade.pdf

EDIT: Seems that link is now dead. Here's a link to the version I saved to my Google Drive https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1oJbcGLUsFCc01JNXM5Y3diUDg/view?usp=sharing (Juan, please let me know if you'd rather I remove this link).


Hope this is of some help. 

The only thing that I'm not sure on is the 22M resistor is the bottom right corner of the board.  I can't find anywhere that sells resistors of such a high value.  Can anyone shed any light on this?
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 17, 2012, 08:42:32 AM
We have 1 spare, PM me your address and I'll send it to you.

If you're ordering the THAT from Farnell/CPC, they do the 22M resistor.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: marauder on July 17, 2012, 09:21:34 AM
Iis there an easily accessible BOM for the Slade version somewhere? I looked through the DIYSB thread but didn't see one, and I feel like it'll be really easy to miss something reading it off of the placement chart.

Here's a BOM I drew up.  Pretty sure there's nothing missing but please let me know if you spot any errors.

Please note that this is for the Slade version that can be found in Juansolo's (very helpful) schematic stash http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/schematics/ISP/ISP%20Decimator%20Slade.pdf

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9504/ispdecimatorsladebom.jpg)

Here's a download link to the Excel file.  http://www.2shared.com/file/7bY3WI-R/ISP_Decimator_Slade_BOM.html

Hope this is of some help.  

The only thing that I'm not sure on is the 22M resistor is the bottom right corner of the board.  I can't find anywhere that sells resistors of such a high value.  Can anyone shed any light on this?



50R resistor should be 750R, diode should be 1N5819, all I've noticed so far.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on July 17, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
Here's a BOM I drew up.

Thanks a lot for doing this!
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on July 17, 2012, 09:48:27 AM
No worries!

The mistakes have now been fixed in my original post.  Thanks for pointing them out Marauder.  I was doing on the sly at work and had to keep closing it when someone walked by  ;D  Hopefully all correct now.

Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: marauder on July 17, 2012, 10:23:36 AM
No worries!

The mistakes have now been fixed in my original post.  Thanks for pointing them out Marauder.  I was doing on the sly at work and had to keep closing it when someone walked by  ;D  Hopefully all correct now.


Oh, and the diodes in the brackets are wrong.  Right part, wrong substitution.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 17, 2012, 01:00:27 PM
Geez, i did'nt see those 22M resistor...i tought it was 2.2M.... :o

Anyone have 4 to spare? I would paypal or PIF you something in return....

I have all the components in house..... ::)

Rej
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on July 17, 2012, 01:21:12 PM

Oh, and the diodes in the brackets are wrong.  Right part, wrong substitution.

Damn.  All now fixed on original post.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 17, 2012, 03:20:48 PM
Geez, i did'nt see those 22M resistor...i tought it was 2.2M.... :o

Anyone have 4 to spare? I would paypal or PIF you something in return....

I have all the components in house..... ::)

Rej

That was our last spare :(
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: GrindCustoms on July 17, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
Geez, i did'nt see those 22M resistor...i tought it was 2.2M.... :o

Anyone have 4 to spare? I would paypal or PIF you something in return....

I have all the components in house..... ::)

Rej

That was our last spare :(

A buddy at BYOC saved me! :)
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Hangingmonkey on July 18, 2012, 11:09:30 AM
Nice pedal.  Im building one from the slade layout.  Board is mostly populated but am waiting for the infamous THAT chip.

What are you supposed to do to set the trimmer, is it a case of fiddling with it and setting it by ear?

Thanks

Yep, it sets unity. it's pretty easy with the new board. Doing it with the original I had to stick it in a switchable loop box I have to set it accurately.

Thanks Juan.  I received my 2181C today and got the pedal working.  Im very pleased with it.  Keefe etched the board and did a great job.  I just fiddled with the trim and it seems that theres a large range where it can be rotated where it works fine and I cant tell the difference.   Is that normal?

I guess as it works fine it doesnt matter but for my own interest, what does unity mean?  Ive tried google but couldnt find anything usefull.  Anyone sympathetic out there who could explain it to me?
 ;D
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on July 18, 2012, 12:06:10 PM
Unity is when the pedal is engaged it's no louder or quieter than when it's off.

Easiest way to set is to turn the knob fully anti-clockwise (so the gate is wide open and letting everything through), play something while turning the pedal on and off. Then just adjust it until the trim so that the level doesn't change whether it's on or off.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on September 19, 2012, 12:25:53 AM
Resurrecting this thread since I'm about to place a parts order: what model trimpot did you use there? I can't quite make out the number in your gutshot, is it a 3362P?
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on September 19, 2012, 03:02:08 PM
Yup, it is indeed.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on September 19, 2012, 09:46:42 PM
Thanks! Looking forward to getting this built.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on October 01, 2012, 03:42:51 PM
Just a note - if anyone is using Guybrush's BOM, it's missing a 470n cap. Time to see if my Radio Shack has any.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: Guybrush on October 02, 2012, 01:08:06 AM
Just a note - if anyone is using Guybrush's BOM, it's missing a 470n cap. Time to see if my Radio Shack has any.

Oh man...  Really sorry about that.  I think I must have been drunk when I drew that thing up!

Anyway, it's fixed in my original post and the download link has been updated.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: lincolnic on October 02, 2012, 07:30:46 AM
No worries, I'm not mad! Just wanted to make a note in case anyone else was ordering parts.
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: richiekotzen on December 17, 2014, 03:18:42 AM
that there are differences between these pedals?
1- DECIMATOR                       noise reduction
2- DECIMATOR II                    noise reduction
3- DECIMATOR G string        noise reduction
4- DECIMATOR G string II     noise reduction
Title: Re: Geiger Gate
Post by: juansolo on December 17, 2014, 03:31:43 AM
The G strings have a send and return too. You use the regular jacks and wire it as the first pedal in your chain. Then you put the send returns as the last or in your loop and it does the NR at the end (or at least before modulation/delay/reverb). Or indeed you could put just the noisy stuff in the loop. For the way I use the Decimators, a regular one works just fine.

Additionally, with the number of sockets it has, using a couple of wires, you wear the pedal as underwear...