madbeanpedals::forum

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: culturejam on November 04, 2012, 08:47:41 PM

Title: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: culturejam on November 04, 2012, 08:47:41 PM
Just saw this at TGP:

(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/ebenezerfound/462E262B-1E41-4278-BF26-735E415A9AC9-54712-0000240C167867A7.jpg)


I dig those standoffs.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: alanp on November 04, 2012, 10:56:15 PM
My Tayda 1n34a's look EXACTLY like those.

Hmmm...

Other than the germs, that looks like it was made in China, not by some spiritual guitar pedal version successor to Ken Fischer.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: juansolo on November 05, 2012, 03:47:33 AM
We've tried all sorts in them. As far as my ears can tell, as long and they're germs and they're about the right forward voltage, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what they are or where you get them... ;)
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: raulduke on November 05, 2012, 03:57:38 AM
Nothing wrong with SMD.... but I feel there is something wrong with charging people $200 ++ for an SMD build. I imagine the markup he has put on these is ridiculous.

'These are essential'; I have to say thats kind of funny (even funnier if it wasn't intended as a joke)!
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Bluestrat on November 05, 2012, 06:58:37 AM
Just saw one of these on e-bay. Seller is asking $1000!!! I'm not sure there is a pedal anywhere worth that.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: pickdropper on November 05, 2012, 07:27:13 AM
Just saw one of these on e-bay. Seller is asking $1000!!! I'm not sure there is a pedal anywhere worth that.


Yeah, that's just cashing in on new release hype.  I doubt it sells, though.

The SMD thing doesn't bother me at all.  I am curious how folks at TGP will receive it, though.  Things seem to be a bit more mojo focused there.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: madbean on November 05, 2012, 07:37:06 AM
The single ganged pots appear to have four pins rather than three. I'm curious about the dual ganged too since it looks like it's a 9mm Alpha but with all the pins in line.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Haberdasher on November 05, 2012, 07:39:32 AM
They should have called it the Klon Keebler, because it's full of oven baked goodness, with just a drop of fresh squozen elf magic.

These things are like $300, or what?  I have half a mind to buy one just to hear it.  My guess is it's nothing special.  I suppose I could probably get my $ back out of it later.  I dunno.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: pickdropper on November 05, 2012, 08:02:53 AM
They should have called it the Klon Keebler, because it's full of oven baked goodness, with just a drop of fresh squozen elf magic.

These things are like $300, or what?  I have half a mind to buy one just to hear it.  My guess is it's nothing special.  I suppose I could probably get my $ back out of it later.  I dunno.

It's funny you mention that.  Years ago, on the Les Paul Forum, there was a famous building who was making some more historically accurate Les Paul Replicas.  Since they had the Gibson logo on them, the builder's name was not released.  At one point, one of the owners referred to it as a "Keebler" and the name stuck.  They were supposed to be great guitars and the Keebler Les Pauls were quite valuable for a while there.  Not sure about now...
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: culturejam on November 05, 2012, 08:54:52 AM
Nothing wrong with SMD.... but I feel there is something wrong with charging people $200 ++ for an SMD build. I imagine the markup he has put on these is ridiculous.

I don't see any issues with the pricing (which is $279, I think). Normally I might, but the Klon is a special case. If you *know* that a whole scad of devoted idiots are begging to pay big bucks, it is your obligation not to let them down. If he charged $150 for it, people would complain it lost its mojo.

If the build quality was shit, I'd be more inclined to think the pricing was foul. But it looks like a very well engineered pedal on the inside.

My Tayda 1n34a's look EXACTLY like those.

A lot of germanium diodes look exactly like that. I have some 1N120s that look just like those, and some older 1N60s that look really similar. I don't think there was a definitive standard on the package decoration on germanium, so you might get very different looks for the same part number.

In other words, I wouldn't read too much into the look of those diodes. They could be any of a dozen or more specific part numbers. And honestly, I don't think it much matters anyway.  :)
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: juansolo on November 05, 2012, 10:02:18 AM
Just saw one of these on e-bay. Seller is asking $1000!!! I'm not sure there is a pedal anywhere worth that.


Sold... and so it continues.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Official-Klon-KTR-Professional-Overdrive-Pedal-/170935650788?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item27cc8f09e4
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: DutchMF on November 05, 2012, 10:17:25 AM
Did anyone spot the date on the pcb? 2010?!#$ This would mean he's been sitting on this for at least two years, in which he could have sold several thousands of pedals, and then make himself ridiculous with those lines of text on it....... Somebody get him a copy of "Marketing for dummies", quick!!!  ;)

Paul   
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: masterlk on November 05, 2012, 10:49:47 AM
If this is SMD from China, expect a rip off version shortly...for cheap. If he thought the DIY community did him wrong before...the violation that is about to take place will make what happened previously pale in comparison.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: jubal81 on November 05, 2012, 01:57:16 PM
If this is SMD from China, expect a rip off version shortly...for cheap. If he thought the DIY community did him wrong before...the violation that is about to take place will make what happened previously pale in comparison.

Yes indeed. The $30 Joyo is coming very soon, especially if they've had this for years. That might be part of the reason for that ridiculous text and lack of goop. He knows it's 99% about marketing to TGP.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: icecycle66 on November 05, 2012, 02:02:51 PM
If there is something on the board that is not essential, why not get rid of it?

Also essential, in and out jacks.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: jubal81 on November 05, 2012, 02:22:30 PM
OK, I have some more gripes I have to get out there.

1) Switching
If you're charging a premium for 'advanced engineering' why use a mechanical switch and not a relay? With two boards and the additional wiring and labor, I can't see how it could even cost less.

2) Size
C'mon, it's SMD and in a plain 'ol BB. Hell, we've got guys here putting a through-hole version in a 1590A. Talk about ego too big to fit in a standard box. If he were using a custom casting for aesthetics it might make sense, but using a plain-jane box?

3) Board-mounting jacks
Again, charging a premium price for Chinese short cuts. I understand this in bargain pedals, but when you're paying 'heirloom - my grandkids can use this' prices, it's a disgrace.

4) The art
Discounting what the text even says, it's just text. How could you get any cheaper?

All-in-all, what I see is Chinese knock-off quality (well, even worse because of size & art) for 10X the price. When you add "The hype is not of my making," what you have isn't a slap in the face, it's a kick in the nuts. He's not only playing a practical joke on his customers, he's telling them what he's doing every time they look at the product. Then, when he makes millions, it'll be a kick in the nuts to builders out there going through the expense and making an effort to build heirloom-quality pedals.

He might as well replace that text with a giant middle finger.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: jkokura on November 05, 2012, 02:25:35 PM
I vote that post get's reposted on TGP.

Jacob
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Mike B. on November 05, 2012, 02:26:02 PM
+1 :)
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: icecycle66 on November 05, 2012, 02:27:23 PM
2) Size
C'mon, it's SMD and in a plain 'ol BB. Hell, we've got guys here putting a through-hole version in a 1590A. Talk about ego too big to fit in a standard box. If he were using a custom casting for aesthetics it might make sense, but using a plain-jane box?

I had the same question.  Why bother with making things smaller, if nothing actually gets any smaller.  Unless of course it is to better utilize the automated SMD machines for financial efficiency.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Comfort Player on November 05, 2012, 03:03:16 PM
Ok , heres one on TGP for only $425, lets see how long it lasts

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1166052
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: culturejam on November 05, 2012, 05:47:34 PM
I had the same question.  Why bother with making things smaller, if nothing actually gets any smaller.  Unless of course it is to better utilize the automated SMD machines for financial efficiency.

Two reasons I can think of:

1) People expect a "real" Klon to be on the bigger side. They would say it sounded bad if you made it too small.

2) Yes, it's generally cheaper to go with SMD for production purposes. He saved money on the production and the enclosure on the new design, and so now the asking price is cheaper. I think it makes sense.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: midwayfair on November 05, 2012, 07:49:35 PM
OK, I have some more gripes I have to get out there.

1) Switching
If you're charging a premium for 'advanced engineering' why use a mechanical switch and not a relay? With two boards and the additional wiring and labor, I can't see how it could even cost less.

2) Size
C'mon, it's SMD and in a plain 'ol BB. Hell, we've got guys here putting a through-hole version in a 1590A. Talk about ego too big to fit in a standard box. If he were using a custom casting for aesthetics it might make sense, but using a plain-jane box?

3) Board-mounting jacks
Again, charging a premium price for Chinese short cuts. I understand this in bargain pedals, but when you're paying 'heirloom - my grandkids can use this' prices, it's a disgrace.

4) The art
Discounting what the text even says, it's just text. How could you get any cheaper?

All-in-all, what I see is Chinese knock-off quality (well, even worse because of size & art) for 10X the price. When you add "The hype is not of my making," what you have isn't a slap in the face, it's a kick in the nuts. He's not only playing a practical joke on his customers, he's telling them what he's doing every time they look at the product. Then, when he makes millions, it'll be a kick in the nuts to builders out there going through the expense and making an effort to build heirloom-quality pedals.

He might as well replace that text with a giant middle finger.

Okay, whoa.

I'm not going to defend the designer, but I will defend some of the design choices:

1) Switching: It has a switchable buffer. You can't get true bypass mechanical switching without a mechanical switch, and some people were going to insist on the true bypass option. It's a hedge against one class of clones and giving people an option. Also, the board-mounted switch system with ribbon wire is to make repairs possible and easy. Even Diamond does that (an almost identical hookup), and I don't think any of us are going to accuse Diamond of overhyping their stuff and overcharging for their engineering, are we? (Granted, Diamond pedals typically cost less!)

2) Some people prefer pedals of this size. Read some posts by David Barber. He wears size 13 shoes. An MXR pedal feels cramped for him and he worries about his feet hitting the knobs. It's also a marketting move: The pedal takes up more real estate, and convinces buyers that there must be a reason it's bigger than a lot of the clones. (We must be doing it wrong, theythinks. Heck, they already think that.) The pedal is for sale, let's not forget.

3) What precisely is wrong with board mounted pots? They are durable and contain redundancy in the form of two soldering points on either side of the jack. There are no wires to corrode, become lose, break connections, or anything else. It's the MOST solid way to construct a pedal's jacks if the circuit board is also secured (with those standoffs). I don't see us complaining about board-mounted pots around here, right? Big Mike on TGP has some pretty strong opinions on this subject, so you should read his reasoning, which is sound (basically it boils down to: pedals that have exceptional proven road worthiness use board mounted pots). There are also multiple threads on DIYStompboxes regarding board-mounted things and how it was a concern for years that all the off-board stuff should be solder lugs and not board-mounted, etc., and eventually everyone got over themselves because it wasn't actually a problem.

4) This I agree with.

Let's not toss the baby (good production pedal ideas) with the bathwater (Bill F).
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: BraindeadAudio on November 05, 2012, 09:32:25 PM
Board mounted jacks work as space savers, I personally dont like them, or the plastic jacks.

Board mounted pots, are easily desoldered and replaced, but personal preference on my own end lends itself to 20g solid core wiring for pots.

That said, Ive never been impressed by the Klon Centuar, but as they say, if people will pay for one, why not make one?
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: gtr2 on November 06, 2012, 06:38:07 AM
I actually like and use those neutrik mounted jacks.  They are high quality IMO.  :)
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: bigmufffuzzwizz on November 07, 2012, 10:33:52 AM
The 2010 was one of the first things I noticed about that picture. Wonder why its taken so long to be released..
Despite the fact that the pedal does look exceptionally professional I'd be more into it if it was hand built. And then it might justify its price to me at least.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: BraindeadAudio on November 08, 2012, 01:07:28 AM
Rumor mill feeding alert, supposedly he has been selling back stock on ebay for years at insane high prices feeding the fire of this pedal. 

I recently saw a band in austin with both guitar player in the band having both silver and gold Klons on their boards. I shook my head because the band did their beautiful 70s Matamp stacks 0 justice, especially with 3g worth of pedals in front of them.

Bassist was running a violet ramshead through a blue line SVT and blew everyone out of the room.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: bigmufffuzzwizz on November 08, 2012, 08:29:34 AM
Rumor mill feeding alert, supposedly he has been selling back stock on ebay for years at insane high prices feeding the fire of this pedal. 

I recently saw a band in austin with both guitar player in the band having both silver and gold Klons on their boards. I shook my head because the band did their beautiful 70s Matamp stacks 0 justice, especially with 3g worth of pedals in front of them.

Bassist was running a violet ramshead through a blue line SVT and blew everyone out of the room.


Hah its funny you say that. To me the concept of buying expensive "boutique" amps is the fact that they usually have a really nice drive/gain that most of the times is unmatchable by a pedal. Especially when we're talking about heads that cost upwards of $1500. So overdrive to drive a high gain amp?!?
Come on now, power amp gain!!!
And those blue line svt's (especially the original '69) pump like crazy...If they didn't break backs when carrying and wallets when fixing.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Scruffie on November 08, 2012, 10:32:20 AM
Rumor mill feeding alert, supposedly he has been selling back stock on ebay for years at insane high prices feeding the fire of this pedal. 

I recently saw a band in austin with both guitar player in the band having both silver and gold Klons on their boards. I shook my head because the band did their beautiful 70s Matamp stacks 0 justice, especially with 3g worth of pedals in front of them.

Bassist was running a violet ramshead through a blue line SVT and blew everyone out of the room.


That rumors been going on for ages hasn't it? Think he's addressed it more than once and probably explains the 'hype is not my making' if we beleive or not well... that's a different story.

OK, I have some more gripes I have to get out there.

1) Switching
If you're charging a premium for 'advanced engineering' why use a mechanical switch and not a relay? With two boards and the additional wiring and labor, I can't see how it could even cost less.

Okay, whoa.

I'm not going to defend the designer, but I will defend some of the design choices:

1) Switching: It has a switchable buffer. You can't get true bypass mechanical switching without a mechanical switch, and some people were going to insist on the true bypass option. It's a hedge against one class of clones and giving people an option.

Digitech Hardwire manage to pull off true bypass/buffer switching with a relay on there effects with trails reverb/delay. Don't ask me how but that's the claim anyway.
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: jkokura on November 08, 2012, 10:53:52 AM
The hardwire stuff is legit. I've had them open on my bench. Awesome pedals.

Jacob
Title: Re: New Klon - Gut Shot
Post by: Scruffie on November 08, 2012, 11:42:34 AM
The hardwire stuff is legit. I've had them open on my bench. Awesome pedals.

Jacob
I could never find an alan key in my sets that fit the ones on the bottom.

It is very nice though I agree.