Messages

That's bad luck, but you did the right thing eliminating the power supply as your issue, even though it remains an issue with this circuit, so be sure to keep using batteries for now while you sort out what's wrong with it. Unfortunately it's a drama having to troubleshoot from here though.

There's a fellow on ebay selling ce1 clones. In his listing he says "MUST BE POWERED BY A HIGH QUALITY ISOLATED Linear TRANSFORMER BASED POWER SUPPLY!
INFERIOR AND SWITCHMODE SUPPLY MAY CAUSE NOISE!"
(his capital letters, not mine)

As for the hum in your clip, sounds too intense & constant to me for something nearby to be causing it. It was exactly like what I was getting until I solved the power issue.
At least you only have 1 of your 2 issues left.
Most likely it's a short or wrong/dead part or orientation, dry joint, something grounding or not grounding when it should be, anything along those lines. Sometimes a bit of hookup wire can be problematic like this too depending on the batch. I went through hell with a bad batch of wire once, it was testing ok for continuity, re-soldering didn't sort it out, yet it was the cause of the issues I had (maybe too many broken strands in places, even though it wasn't bent).
It's disappointing to hear it wasn't just the power issue, lot of work still to go then.

I have a large box full of power adapters. Tried all I could. Also resorted to buying a few new ones specifically sold by music stores under the guise of "for pedals, no noise etc".
No luck with any of them. Always that same full-on hum when engaged. It seems all power adapters available are switch mode regardless of the blurb on the box, at least what I have are. Some say they're switch mode, some don't, which doesn't help. Only solution was a separate isolated power unit, which ironically is powered by a switching power adapter.

So basically you have 3 options. Get a proper isolated power unit (it's what they're made for afterall, ie fussy effects), come up with a better design of that circuits power section or run the circuit on batteries.

As I said, a single 9v battery doesn't have enough current, but 2 in parallel might do the trick. You could try it & being the same circuit as mine you would at least see if the hum is gone when it's engaged so you'd at least know if you're on the right track (isolated power being the cause) or whether to look elsewhere for a solution to the issue. Otherwise you'll end up going around in circles trying one switching power adapter or un-isolated power supply after another & getting nowhere.

It's a clone circuit that's extremely fussy about its power supply & I sure learned that the hard way, so I understand your frustrations, but what can I tell ya...

Here's a link to the recom 1215D datasheet (power module), albeit not much info there :

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/468/RD-958126.pdf

I also attached a schematic of the power section used in this ce1 clone circuit.
Maybe it's possible someone could re-do the support parts around it to get rid of that hum without having to resort to using an additional isolated power supply unit.
I don't know how, so if it is possible, it could need anything from a couple of extra 1n5817 diodes, a film cap or 2, maybe even a drop down resistor. The answer or solution could be quite simple for someone in the know.

All switching/switch mode power adapters are the enemy of this circuit, instant hum, but they can be used to power an isolated power supply unit, which in turn can power this circuit.

I had a similar hum issue when I did my one of these a year back. As I described in earlier posts in this thread back at that time, this circuit is very fussy with its PSU & it must be an isolated PSU. You can't just plug in any power adapter & you definitely can't daisy chain these. Also, a 9v battery lacks the required current to run it, but perhaps 2 wired up together would work to avoid the hum, even as a temporary solution to rule out other causes, but I'm pretty sure it's the lack of an isolated PSU because I went through this myself.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can come up with a small power supply circuit to avoid this problem, so any old PSU can be used. From memory, I don't think the small power supply PCB's (with the charge pump) Brian was selling worked for this circuit. I remember Brian was going to have a look into doing this circuit for the store, if so, sorting out a better power section would be recommended before churning out a batch of PCB's. Otherwise, it has to be a power adapter into an isolated power provider unit, then from there to this circuit.

Edit: Precautionary 'replace it' post edited out...

Phil & Dino = Dead End FX. Same place for E-nigma (? Flange) PCB's as Flange-O-Rama (Ibanez FL99) PCB's.

I didn't meet Ian (Lacesensor) until he was selling a few Lovetone Doppleganger clone PCB's a couple of years back, which is where I got my one of those at the time. Prior to that he also had some ? Flange PCB's, but I missed the boat before he moved on to other things. Fortunately for those of us that missed out, Dead End FX got some PCB's made up. There was/is a few tricky parts to source for the ? Flange too, so it's best to look at the BOM to make sure you can cover everything before diving in. It's not one of the cheaper projects around either & a lot of work.

Glad to hear you got it sorted. It'd be difficult finding many better flange circuits than this excellent one.

I had a lot of trouble getting that part last year. Nowhere had it & asking my usual suppliers what to use for a substitute resulted in days of waiting for useless responses.
I knew from other vintage parts that the "JRC" prefix is often replaced with "NJM" in modern batches, so I was at least able to track down the part that way.
It got to the point where I knew it was just a dime a dozen part but it was becoming more time consuming than it was worth so I just paid what "transistorthyristor.com" asked for to get it over with.

If Phil/Dino or GovtLacky confirm that the TL750L08 is fine as a substitute, it's best to get whatever you can locally for a coin rather than paying overs. It's just a power section part, not in the audio path, so it makes no difference to tone.

As for me, I finally got around to finishing Phil & Dino's Lovetone ? Flange the other day. I just have to go over it to check the wiring & for any shorts before powering up & doing the calibration. I've been hesitant to do it because it would be a beast to troubleshoot if something is wrong. Hopefully it'll be fine. When I did the Doppleganger a couple of years ago it worked first go but the Flange is more complex so I'm nervous...

If it helps anyone out, when I built mine last year I sourced that 2930L08 part from here:

https://www.transistorthyristor.com/circuits?search=NJM2930L08

It arrived safe, new & worked perfect.

Well done KMRO.
I just wanted to add I've done a couple of Tayda builds too.
The Tayda Guv'nor sounds great regardless of gear used. Very user friendly all-rounder, just plug it in.
The Tayda Purple Plexi, I found it's very sensitive & dynamic, much fussier with what guitar you use, the pickups, amp choices, whether you roll back the volume etc. That one can sound really great & flexible in the right setup but really mediocre (even totally bad) plugged in with just any gear when no thought is put into it. Depending on playing styles, it can be rewarding when used with some smarts, as in better than all-rounders, but you have to do the homework & put the effort in to get there or you probably wont get anywhere near there with one of these.

I can't comment on the 2 cans, but the chips all look OK (genuine) to me.

The MN3102's aren't so rare yet & it looks like they're NOS. Their pins don't look bent.

The MN3204's looks used, pins look bent to fit PCB pads or IC sockets. Hard to tell from pics if they've been de-soldered, but it doesn't mean you wont get working parts. Doesn't mean they'll all be working either, only testing them will answer that, but if you bought more than you need it'll help a lot in avoiding disappointment.

The MN3207's, I'd be more worried about the one on the left. Underneath looks like it may have been contaminated with something moist. It looks like the tide has come in from left to right. Not sure what's going on with that one.
You can check if it looks like that moisture reaches any of the pins where they come out of the IC & if so I'd be wary of that one, if moisture soaked inside it could've killed it. If that blemish is just on the bottom surface, it may be fine.

Did anyone save the TDA1022 version of the project documentation?

There's only the one project DOC to use for both. All part numbers (& part count) are identical, no part changes whatsoever, apart from the different BBD's.
The only difference between versions is MN3002 is a 14pin chip & the TDA1022P is a 16pin chip, which resulted in a couple of parts being slightly re-positioned on the PCB. Obviously there'd also be a few changes to the PCB traces around the BBD's due to the different pinouts.

Earlier in the year Scruffie pointed out that the voltage requirement of the respective BBD's is very close but not identical. In most cases it would be fine, but due to the slight variance in tolerance from one chip to the next from the same batch (similar to how a batch of 100uf capacitors can measure anywhere from 80 to 120 or the hfe of transistors vary from one to the next), there may be rare instances where one particular chip may sound like it isn't quite tuned in well enough (& no trimpot in the CE1 design to tune in the BBD). Simply swapping it for another chip would likely sort it out as it would only rarely happen within the extreme end of the range. Ideally a resistor or two could possibly be replaced with a trimpot to better take care of it so it never happens at all.

Hello,

it's possible to buy somewhere PCB's?

He's on ebay selling the PCB's :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CE1-CLONE-PCB-KING-OF-CHORUS-USES-THE-TDA1022-512-BBD/254107550399?hash=item3b29fd82bf:g:8pQAAOSwm-FcKVxP:rk:11:pf:0

Bought him a PCB in august, never arrived.

Meaby somewhere is PCB layout to download?

Build DOC is in the first post of this thread.

It looks like the link above to buy the TDA1022P version PCB's has expired, so here is a link to all drog_trog's stuff on ebay & at the time of writing the CE1 PCB's are still available with everything else he's selling :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?item=254155604505&ViewItem=&_ssn=dfx_pedz&rt=nc

As for mine, I already drilled an enclosure last year to include various mods. I only ever got it working without any mods before moving on to other stuff, so I bought another enclosure to drill without the extra switch & pot holes. I might just leave it at that for my TDA version.
My MN3002 version can live in the "to do later" pile indefinitely & unboxed. I might revisit it one day if I end up with a few more MN3002's, but they're not worth paying overs for when there's an easier alternative. Also they sound the same to me, so it's more a case of what you have on hand (or can get).

"Maybe fake was the wrong wording, definitely the one in the LFO was not working. Definitely the 2SA1015Y and one of the 2SC1815(Y) were not working.  I'll have to test the rest out to know for sure."

Maybe just a few DOA's, but it seems like really bad lack for it to happen with 3 different types of parts in one order.
For those 2 transistor types, Polida on ebay were selling 50 of each type bundled together for about $1.30 delivered, which turned out to be good value & I didn't have any problems with them.

"is there any way to test the chips short of just trying them in a completed build?"

Besides a trusty multimeter, I have a few testers to check parts, one for transistors (displays hfe etc), one for capacitors (does all the pf's a multimeter can't) & also an IC tester. The IC tester doesn't recognize BBD's, but it does opamps, the 4000 series & various others. It's helpful to check most IC's are working before installing. I also found when testing common parts like TL072 it will expose cheaper opamps that have been rebadged. For BBD's, if you don't have a working circuit to test them it's good to buy some extras (from different sources even better) so you can at least quickly try a few before resorting to more intense troubleshooting.

Bio77, When I did mine last year, I bought working MN3204's from UTsource too.
I also bought some C4570's from them at the same time, which worked, but seeing you've mentioned your C4570's from there were fake, it's possible the ones I got from them were fake too. Possibly they're a similar opamp with the same pinout.

Regardless, it sounds great & one of my top 2 fav's (lost count how many different flangers I've owned). Highly recommended for anyone considering getting one. I've still got the SOST flanger & ? Flange PCB's to finish, I'm very late getting around to those 2 due to the daunting wiring & all the sockets etc. I did populate the ?, I just have to read up & plan ahead the drilling etc & get it finished. It looks like a nightmare & the SOST is even more of a worry. Hopefully I'll be fine, just have to put the time in.

As a few people have emailed me about power supplies for this circuit over the last few months, I'll just do a quick post about it for anyone else building one of these.

I usually test whatever build I do with a 9v battery with a short battery clip to DC plug. This is not a circuit where an internal battery clip can be used because there is simply not enough current in a 9v battery to power it. The circuit itself runs off dual rail charge-pumped power, so that's +14v, -14v & ground (a big ask for a 9v battery). When I tested it with a battery it did manage to run the vibrato mode, but not the chorus mode.

So moving on to power adapters. The majority of 9v power adapters available, including those sold in music stores touted as being designed for effects, are all switch-mode power supplies. Sure they can run a daisy chain of common Ibanez/Boss pedals off the one 9v adapter, but not this particular circuit. It simply doesn't like switch-mode power supplies & creates a very loud hum which makes the effect unusable.

And so starts the quest for the ideal "isolated" power supply.
I ended up buying a "Caline P1" power supply. 
It provides 5 x 9v outputs at 500ma, along with options for 12v, 15v & 18v at 1000ma.
I've attached a photo so anyone interested can have a look at the size of it next to a common Boss pedal.

As I said to Ricotjuh recently, if I was looking for something to use in a pro touring rig, I'd be looking at a more reputable brand of isolated PSU for reliability, even if it cost $500 compared to $50 for the Caline P1, but I did find that it's adequate & works out of the box. Whether it lasts remains to be seen, as such I'm not recommending it, but for testing builds etc it's fine for myself. As far as the fussy power supply requirements of this CE1 are concerned, it works without hum off 9v povided by the Caline P1. With a few other builds for me to finish up later that require an isolated power supply, the Caline P1 will be handy for those as well, but I repeat, if I was going to tour with some of these demanding builds, I'd shop for something confirmed to be reliable...

I'll just add that the Caline P1 had an 18v power adapter in the box with a bundle of individual DC cables...