Messages

Wow! I feel I am getting a full-on chorus tutorial here! I will be sure to think this through carefully before I order the chips. I will likely still go with the v3207, but it sounds like the MN3007 would pair nicely with a well-regulated 12v power supply, even if some of the classics went with 9v.

A BBD will more likely be affected by how strong your Pickups are regarding it distorting, if you're using Actives or perhaps a bass or just have high output Singles/Hums or whatever than yeah a 12V (or 9V Supply with RoadRage Board to regulate it to 15V, the max voltage of a BBD) and 3007 would be best.

But for your general playing i'd go with the v3207 yeah, it's cheaper, still in production, easy to source, you wont get a fake chip.

But any BBD based effect will clip and distort even the higher voltage ones, it's just the nature of the technology, it can be improved further with Companding but as far as i'm aware, there are no DIY Choruses (and few production ones) that use the technology.

Either way good luck!

The headroom only applies if you run the chip at a higher voltage. So for example, if you were running an MN3007 at 9V, there would be no difference compared with the MN3207. The headroom only becomes a factor if you were running the MN3007 at 12 or 15V, at which point you'd see a benefit. The MN3207 is designed to run at 9V.

Jacob

And to expand on that two of the most popular choruses ever that did use a 3007 (Small Clone & BOSS CE-2) Both ran on 9V Batteries!

But yeah if you want less clipping with overdrive, running a 3007 at higher voltage would work better, but give a 3207 a go, you might find it fits your needs perfectly.

Actually, the CE-2 used a 12V power source for best practice (the ACA adapter). It could run on 9V, yes, but it is meant to be run on a higher voltage source.

Jacob

It had a 12V Power Supply, but I beleive you'll find inside it was regulated down by a 9V Zener only connected when the battery wasn't in use.

The headroom only applies if you run the chip at a higher voltage. So for example, if you were running an MN3007 at 9V, there would be no difference compared with the MN3207. The headroom only becomes a factor if you were running the MN3007 at 12 or 15V, at which point you'd see a benefit. The MN3207 is designed to run at 9V.

Jacob

And to expand on that two of the most popular choruses ever that did use a 3007 (Small Clone & BOSS CE-2) Both ran on 9V Batteries!

But yeah if you want less clipping with overdrive, running a 3007 at higher voltage would work better, but give a 3207 a go, you might find it fits your needs perfectly.

I have no experience with note decay etc but a compressor in front of a usual Octave effect almost always helps, i'd certainly try if you can.

Sounds tricksy

When you have a clearer minute at your leisure of course and if you wouldnt mind checking it out thatd be grand. I have some diagrams of the FSB puss board..

thanks a mill

Chuck us a diagram then and i'll have a look, shouldn't be too tricky.

I wouldn't buy it cause international shipping is nearly $25!

Otherwise I see no issue with it... other than it seems to be trying to insult you in to buying it.

Swap Vdd & Gnd, Connect Vgg & Vdd.

Tie the output resistors to ground (that'd be R24 on the new boards).

Might have to cut some tracks I can't think straight right now and don't have the files for this exact board.

I can see quite a few suspect joints on that, i'd reflow the board.

I'd also post voltages.

Some people just like a switch, some people might not like the mod etc.

I'm not too keen on having the Ruetz mod on the Rat boards personally, i'd rather it was a 3 knobber.

Plus this has a Tone Bypass (you can see the pads) so it would make two controls redundant.

Yes, I thought that would be the options.

Brian, do you have an idea what the effect of one or the other is sound wise or is this just influencing the bbd clock?

Thanks

Any of them will just effect the clock, the only difference in sound is that longer delays will be dirtier... but that's just how it goes.

[NO]

This question is gunna keep coming up and people are going to keep getting ripped off and putting cash in to buying 3005s regardless of it being a bad idea so I figured this thread was a necessity. Regardless of the fact I doubt it'll put people off.

First! For those who are interested, What is the difference between a 3005 & 3205?
(This is my opinion, if you choose to have a different opinion, have fun buying fake chips)

While i'd like to say it's just mojo here, there is something in this one, a 3005 has the benefit of being able to run at a higher voltage for a higher headroom (15V compared to a 3205s 9V), it does also have some slightly different specs to the 3205 (higher THD being one of them).

Do they sound different? Well yes there will be a slight difference in tone due to the distortion characteristics not to mention 2 of the same BBDs can sound slightly different but that higher headroom can allow for less clipping in your delays.

However... if you are going to use a 3005 or 3001/2/3/4/5/6/7/9/11 for that matter, you will only get that higher headroom advantage by running at a higher voltage, the BOSS DM-2 probably famed for its use of the 3005 actually also used the 3205 for a time but they both run on 9V and as far as i'm aware, there was no out cry when they didn't tell anyone that they'd changed to a chip that actually runs Better on 9V than the higher voltage 3005 chip (it has a lower THD so should theoretically be better at 9V).

There is nothing wrong with the 320X series of BBDs, they work great and are used in a great deal of analogue delays, choruses etc. The BOSS DC-2 being an example, hightly sought after, yet it uses 3207s not 3007s. The New EHX (Deluxe) Memory Boy, Toy all use the 3208 BBDs, the MXR Carbon Copy, M-117R infact a huge percentage of delay based effects on the market have been happily using the 320X BBDs for years.


Now On to Detect & Avoid Buying Fake 3005 BBDs.

First off... Ebay, don't do it, while recently some people did manage to get lucky with real BBDs, 99% of the time you will get complete fakes or rebranded 3008s (half the delay time of a 3005)

It is a huge risk and you will likely end up out of pocket, ebay is flooded with fake chips as is the rest of the market, companies that offer to find rare parts are not immune to fakes and often supply them (EHX ended up with many fake 3005s for the new EHX Deluxe Memory Man w/ Tap Tempo and they have massive buying power).

There is NO safe way of buying a 3005, if you must have a higher voltage chip, I suggest you buy the fakes (3008s rebranded as 3005s) from Smallbearelec and using 2 to approximate a 3005, you'll get all the benefits of a 3005 such as higher headroom and whatever sound you beleive it has plus you're buying from a reputible source and saving a lot of money in the process!

If you insist on trying ebay, to try and detect a fake there's a few steps you can take
1) Ask for a picture with your username next to it of the exact chips you'll get.
2) Study them for a few things
- Are the Date Codes the Same on all the chips? (that's the 3 digit number) be very wary if they are.
- Does it look new? The chips have been out of production some time and a chip off ebay will most certainly be a karaoke machine pull, it shouldn't look brand new.
- Do they mention any sort of 'refurbing' of the chips, the suppliers don't care about a chips looks, this is most likely to trick you in to accepting why it looks wrong.
- Is there any obvious stamp smudges or sanding marks on the chip? A shallow indent on the top could indicate this too, it could indicate a chip that has been remarked as 3005 but is in fact, not.
- Is the seller offering large quantaties of the chip over a single or several listings? It's highly unlikely he found a very large batch and has several hundred chips at his disposal.

As a side note, make sure you have a method of testing the chips you get within whatever return/ ebay refund time period. Hopefully if these suppliers have to keep paying out they'll stop supplying the market with fakes and also this will mean you can get your money back. Make sure to use proper static protection when handling the chips to be sure you haven't damaged them and that what you are using to test them in is known to work, especially if you buy in larger quantities.

The Chips Appearance

Here is a great page showing the difference between fake and real 3005s

http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8116&p=90518&hilit=mn3005

As can be seen here, there are TWO types of legitimate 3005, there are also TWO different branding stamps (the M & Tri Logo).

Look at the chips and notice

- Leg length, Shineyness and shaping
- How 'Square' and clean the chip looks and the overall shape
- Does it have a good border on the top of the chip? Some chips don't but it's something to look out for
- The Date Code, is it the same on all your chips?
- Does it have a good top indentation?
- Is there a good, deep front indentation, even if it doesn't have the full cut indent it should be deepish.
- Bottom Logo Indentation size

One final thing to check, once you have your chip, make sure it has the full delay time, you should be able to pull out around 300mS of Delay from a 3005 where a rebranded 3008 which will work in your 3005 delay, will only give you half the delay.

So there you have it! It is not easy to get a 3005 at all and I seriously suggest either accepting half the delay time with 3008s if you MUST have higher headroom or using a 3205 chip which are still happily in production and used by many happy customers.

I aint got any 3005s, the only one I ever had I sold for a repair job (regret that now as while i'm happy with 3008s, i'm about 150mS away from the delay amount i'd like! but atleast I fixed a DM-2).

I do suggest you just use 4 x 3008s, there's no reason not to really other than mojo, while a 3205 and 3005 might have differences a 3008 is just a 3005 with half the delay stages.

I'm currently writing a little guide to avoiding fake 3005s on this site and how to help spot a real one atlhough nothing is fool proof, these chips are quite clearly fake to me (I figure this kinda stuff is gunna keep happening, compiling it in a single thread will hopefully stop people buying off ebay or just stop buying 3005s altogether but I have a feeling that's a loosing battle).

I'm sorry but I don't have any secret source, if I knew how to get hold of 3005s reliably i'd have some for myself and also probably be very rich. The market is full of fakes, you are gunna have to keep investing in risks basically to have a chance of getting working ones.

And 4 x 3005s? I'm afraid you're dreaming, 1 is a possibility, 2 is damn lucky but can be done... more than that...

Man oh man. I just got my final parts in the mail, and I'm now pretty sure that my parts are fakes. Dang. I've built this thing for MN3005's, and I probably don't have any.

Jacob

Small Bear Fake MN3005s? Half the Delay time but atleast it'll work.

Hot = Bad

Sorry guys... looks like you got fakes, not even relabelled 3008s.

I'm sorry to say but that chip looks terribly fake, I could be wrong but... I don't think I am...