JJ ECC83 - Do you find them to be "dark" ??

[culturejam]

Just read through a TGP thread and just about everybody agreed (gasp!) that JJ's standard 12AX7 / ECC83 has a noticeably darkening tone vs Russian and Chinese tubes.

Have you guys noticed this in your experiments?

I've generally regarding Sovtek (and all their sub brands) and Sino stuff to be sometimes harsh and usually very high gain.

[GermanCdn]

I retubed a couple of amps with JJs last year (12AX7 and matched EL34) in place of some Sovtek and EH tubes, and I didn't notice them getting "darker" per se.  The Sovteks were in a Black Heart 15W Handsome Devil head, and they were a lot "fuzzier" than the JJs.  The EH tubes were in a Valve Jr, and truthfully, I didn't notice a whole lot of difference, but it's a one knob head.

[midwayfair]

I've generally regarding Sovtek (and all their sub brands) and Sino stuff to be sometimes harsh and usually very high gain.

Lower gain can very easily = less treble. Changing out a 12AX7 for a Y7 or U7 is a pretty common way to mellow out some amps.

[jtn191]

I can't afford a bunch of tubes to try out but Pete Thorn says they have a slight darkening effect
http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/19558-tone-tips-tube-talk

[Blues Healer]

Myles Rose's most recent test listed these as "high gain, strong mids". Some might easily hear that as "darker".

http://la-economy.blogspot.com/2013/05/current-production-12ax7-tubes-ten-of.html#more

[Clayford]

Just read through a TGP thread and just about everybody agreed (gasp!) that JJ's standard 12AX7 / ECC83 has a noticeably darkening tone vs Russian and Chinese tubes.

Have you guys noticed this in your experiments?

I've generally regarding Sovtek (and all their sub brands) and Sino stuff to be sometimes harsh and usually very high gain.

Yes the chinese tubes that shipped in my JCA22H were boarding on buzzwords as used by the TGP'ers such as "shrill" and "sterile". When I retubed with a JAN AT7 in V2 and JJ's in everything else except for the PI my amp came alive and even became what some would call "Fenderish" on the clean channel through an openback 2x12 if I rolled my volume back to 7-8 on the guitar. I think it's yet again just the cork sniffing crowd attempting to protect their investment in crazy expensive tubes. I spent $75 mostly retubing my amp and LOVE the sound. I also plan on adding a choke from MM to help things along this summer. 

[atreidesheir]

The cheapest JJ ECC83S do sound dark.  If you put them in a Fender type amp you would hardly notice.  If you put them in a Marshall-y amp, you will really notice.  The trebles really are attenuated. 

[culturejam]

Thanks for the input, guys.

[rullywowr]

It is my opinion that JJ's in general are darker (less treble sounding) than other tubes.  This goes for both preamp and power amp tubes.  I've tried a lot (Bob at Eurotubes is a great guy btw).  In some amps they have their place...in others a brighter sounding tube makes all the difference.