Author Topic: Aristocrat Wiring  (Read 3115 times)

thegreatwent

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Aristocrat Wiring
« on: April 29, 2011, 06:16:34 PM »
Hello folks.
First post here.
Currently working on an Aristocrat build using a purchased Madbean PCB.
I've got my board populated and have started to wire up my jacks and switches and am a little confused about the wiring as the diagram provided is the single sided version and it looks like the positions of the ins and outs are reversed from where they are on the DS version, ie. input 1 and ground 1 are on the left side on the DS version, but are on the right on the SS version.

Do I follow the SS version and just make my leads longer to traverse the board or do I, for example, go from pole 2B on the left side footswitch to Input 1 on the left side of the board?

Sorry if this is a super noob question. I'm very SLOOOOOOWLY getting my head around how all of this works.

Any help would be appreciated.

jkokura

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 11:34:10 PM »
Hey, and welcome to the forums! We're happy to help you out here, and hope you'll come and join us in this hobby.

So my question for you back is which version of the documentation are you using? These documents? http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Aristocrat/docs/Aristocrat_ver.4.pdf

If so, you should have the most up to date documentation. The information you're looking for is actually written right onto the PCB you've got in your hands. There's an In1 and Out1, and an In2 and Out2, and that's the ones you need to really worry about. If you haven't got a single sided board, then use the indicators on the actual product you're using.

Does that help you?

Jacob
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thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 12:35:21 AM »
Thanks for the warm welcome jkokkura!

I am using Ver. 4. and have wired it using the SS version as a guide.
I think I have a bad switch, and possibly some other issues going on.
I had forgotten to order two 3PDT switches for this build and pulled out switches from a vintage reissue rat and at rat2 as I was too impatient to wait for new ones or pick new ones up.
I know the switch on the rat2, which I haven't used much in years, was intermittent...

I'm going to have to build myself a probe and backtrack and try to find out where I've gone wrong.
I was only able to get sound with the 2nd drive section engaged and the only thing it would do is change the tone when I turned the volume pot - that's it.

I also managed to break one of the tabs on my DC jack - it just tore off completely. Frustrating..I determined that I had wired that wrong as well and the tab broke when I was trying to fix it.

Not yet able to post pictures. I'll try and get some replacement parts soon and do some troubleshooting on my own and check back in.

Thanks again!

Andrew

« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 09:19:38 AM by thegreatwent »

thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 10:54:34 PM »
Edit: I've just read the rules for getting help and realize I'm missing a few steps.
I intend on picking up a breadboard to help me sort out the issues and to be able to "rock it before I box it", though I might need some help on setting that up.

Build is Aristocrat. Latest build (Ver 4). Madbean PCB.
I've got C1 and C12 socketed and have 47n caps in place for more bass.
Again, the only sound I've managed to get out of it was on drive 2 and the only knob that did anything was the volume knob and it changed the tone - highs were rolled off when turned counter clockwise. Nothing else worked and there was no audio when in bypass.

Original post:

Hey Jacob.
Took a stab at troubleshooting and realized I'm not even sure where to begin.
I've since taken the footswitches off as I'm pretty sure one is not working 100%.
I also don't have the DC jack, but I do have the 9V battery hookup.
What can I do to start troubleshooting?
I've got a multimeter and I've just built myself an audio probe, and I've got a camera that can take real nice macro shots if you want to see what I've got so far.
I tried wiring directly from the input jack to input 1 and from output 2 to the output jack, but I wasn't sure how or where to connect my ground. Would that work? I figured it might be easier to isolate one side at a time and bypass the switches and focus on the connections on the board.

My only experience with pedal builds thus far is a toneclone nobels odr-1 clone and that fired up the first time I plugged it in and I even managed to add a switch to swap out diodes and another to change resistor values for a presence or midrange boost.

Again, any help is appreciated and please let me know what I can do to help facilitate you being able to help me out.

Thanks!

A
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 11:11:17 PM by thegreatwent »

jkokura

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 08:11:03 AM »
Edit: I've just read the rules for getting help and realize I'm missing a few steps.
I intend on picking up a breadboard to help me sort out the issues and to be able to "rock it before I box it", though I might need some help on setting that up.

Build is Aristocrat. Latest build (Ver 4). Madbean PCB.
I've got C1 and C12 socketed and have 47n caps in place for more bass.
Again, the only sound I've managed to get out of it was on drive 2 and the only knob that did anything was the volume knob and it changed the tone - highs were rolled off when turned counter clockwise. Nothing else worked and there was no audio when in bypass.

Great info, thanks for taking a look at that! It should have at least given you an idea of what kinds of things you can do to begin to trouble shoot. Read it again to glean some more ideas maybe?

Hey Jacob.
Took a stab at troubleshooting and realized I'm not even sure where to begin.

Begin at the beginning! Take it slow, do some steps that we'll recommend here and you'll get better at it real quick. First thing I recommend is to treat this as two separate pedals for now. Get channel 1 working and then do channel 2. I would follow the same steps for each:

Check all your parts to make sure you put the right part in the right place, they are oriented correctly, and that none are damaged or malfunctioning
Check your power using you DMM, measuring your voltage at your battery, voltage at the Board's 9V in, voltage at ground.
Check your voltage at the IC (and transistors), making sure you write down all the voltages for each pin.

That's a good start.

I've since taken the footswitches off as I'm pretty sure one is not working 100%.
I also don't have the DC jack, but I do have the 9V battery hookup.
What can I do to start troubleshooting?
I've got a multimeter and I've just built myself an audio probe, and I've got a camera that can take real nice macro shots if you want to see what I've got so far.

Nice pictures is helpful, so if you'd like to take them that's, great. Use your DMM as suggested above, and if those things seem to be normal, we'll get you to use the audio probe and work through the circuit. Audio probes are pretty much the most important tool for debugging I think.

I tried wiring directly from the input jack to input 1 and from output 2 to the output jack, but I wasn't sure how or where to connect my ground. Would that work? I figured it might be easier to isolate one side at a time and bypass the switches and focus on the connections on the board.

Here's one thing I just thought of - you still need a connection between output 1 and input 2 if you did it just like that!

Treat this as two separate circuits for now. Go into input 1 and out of output 1 to start, and get that half of the circuit working first. Once it is, move to channel 2.

Hope that helps A,

Jacob
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thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 11:02:10 AM »
Using a battery measuring 9.38V.

Voltages on IC1 are as follows:
1. 8.53
2. 8.87
3. 8.89
4. 9.34
5. 9.35
6. 9.23
7. 9.03
8. 9.35

Voltages for IC2 are as follows:
1. 8.61
2. 8.87
3. 9.31
4. 9.34
5. 9.35
6. 9.06
7 9.03
8. 9.35

Voltage at 9V is 9.38
Voltage at input 1 is 8.49
Voltage at input 2 is 9.30
Voltage at grounds 9.35

jkokura

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 12:27:22 PM »
Hmm. If you have anything other than 0 at GND you ave problems. However, considering your readings, I'm not sure you are taking measurements correctly. Can you give me some more details as to what you're doing?

Jacob
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thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 12:54:02 PM »
I still have the input jack hooked up to the battery snap and have the black wire from the battery snap attached to the ring of the jack.

When testing I have the battery snapped in and my black tip on the ground/ring of the jack and using the red tip to make my connections to take measurements.

Should I be doing it differently? Should I wire the ground/black lead from the battery to GR.1 on the board?

 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 06:19:52 PM by thegreatwent »

thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 02:33:51 PM »
I picked up a small breadboard and can now set up a better testing rig.

Jacob, can you please tell me what I might have done wrong as far as my measurements go?
What numbers should I be shooting for?

Thanks!

Andrew

jkokura

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 02:53:52 PM »
You should have 0 on your ground. The fact that you have almost full power on your ground indicates to me that either you have your power and ground directly connected somehow, or you're taking your measurements wrong.

To take measurements, you should take your black lead from your DMM and touch that to ground (attaching it is best) and then use your red lead to actually touch the parts you're measuring.

On your two IC's, you should have +9Vish on pin 8, and you should have 0 on pin four. Those are you 9V in and ground on the IC's respectively. On the other 6 pins you should have about 4.5V I think, haven't checked the project docs to check.

You have power leaking directly to ground I think, so it will definately not be working. In that case you may have blown your power protection diode and need to replace it. You need to check for solder bridges or wrongly connecting wires. Pictures may help us all out.

Stick with it, we'll get you working right.

Jacob
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thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 05:00:50 PM »
Jacob,
Got both sides to work.
Channel 1 seems much louder than channel 2 and is voiced differently. Is that the way it's supposed to be?
Channel 2 seems to have a much honkier midrange than channel 1.
Also, the DIP switches are really pretty subtle and changes are more noticeable on channel 1 than channel 2.

I think what was causing the problems were the input and output jack wiring. Not sure what was wrong before as I just pulled everything off and started all over. Also seemed like something was grounding out somewhere and I had a bad joint on one of the gain leads on channel 1 on the board.

Now I just need to order some new foot switches and a DC jack and I should be good to go, provided I can wire everything up.

I'm noticing at the highest gain settings that the effect can be a bit fizzy sounding. Is this normal? The lower gain sounds are quite nice and it's pretty transparent. My Deluxe Reverb Reissue really lets you know how transparent an overdrive is. It doesn't like a Keeley Modded TS-808 much, unless you like a nice bump in the midrange. Me, I can't stand it. Just give me my amp sound with some grit on it please. Thank you.

I'd like to know your thoughts on what I'm hearing.

Thanks again and for your patience!  :)



 

thegreatwent

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 11:48:13 PM »
Ok.
I feel like an ass.
Turns out, upon closer inspection, that I had resistors in the wrong places....everywhere.
I thought I was being so careful and had everything separated and marked and measured, but no, a complete cluster-f.
I pulled them out, measured again and made sure everything is in it's right place.
It's a good thing the madbean board is robust as well as resistors. Everything works perfectly now, but it sure doesn't look pretty.  :P
I guess it was a lesson I needed to learn and I'm not likely to do it again (I hope) because it's a complete pain in the ass to pull soldered resistors off the board, clean out the holes so the right ones can fit back in all the while working around the other parts in the board - NOT FUN!

Still need to order some new switches.

Got to play with it a bit and it's sounding good through the DRRI.
Can't wait to play it through the Ceriatone Dizzy 30 tomorrow with a bit of volume.

Thanks again for your help Jacob.
It looks like you put in a lot of time on this forum helping people out and I think that's very cool.  :)

madbean

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Re: Aristocrat Wiring
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 04:15:43 AM »
I'm sorry that it turned out to be such a PITA, but glad to hear it worked out in the end. And, yeah, Jacob is the man!
I own madbeanpedals (duh). I am part owner of Function F(X).