Author Topic: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)  (Read 2505 times)

bsoncini

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Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« on: December 01, 2017, 05:28:09 AM »
Sorry this might be a bit long winded but stick with me.

I was approached by a friend of a friend who works for an association/fablab here in Paris to start doing pedal related things for them. And I'm gonna need some help from you guys who are much more knowledgeable than me.

A little background.  It will be done by two associations which are actually the same people. Sonic Lab https://www.facebook.com/events/154011541862156/.  Which will be doing workshops on making pedals, noise makers, basic synths, etc.  And the other is Brutpop. http://brutpop.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page_15.html  .  They do workshops with handcaped people mostly kids with instruments adapted to their handicaps.  Often they work with autistic kids and make a bunch of noise with them.  They travel around France and do workshops and leave the instruments with them.  Sometimes they have workshops also with non handicapped kids just to get them into making noise.

The building they are in is really cool.  It is an abandoned train station and they have a stage for concerts and many other charitable groups are based there also. Also a practice space for bands.  Looks a bit like a squat. If anyone is in Paris you should check it out.  https://www.mu.asso.fr/station/

So the goal will be to start doing workshops on building guitar pedals.  These will be open to anyone who wants to take part and some junior high schools have asked about some classes too.  Most of the people will be people who have never touched a solder iron in their life. The projects at the start are gonna be pretty simple.  When we do workshops I will also build extra pedals that will be used to leave with the instruments so that the kids have some pedals to play with too.  Hence, simple pedals with giant knobs to make it as easy as possible for someone with a handicap to manipulate.

Also.  Money is tight so things will be almost as cheap as possible.  They get a bit of funding from the government and private donors.

So this is the part that I need your help with. 

First is any suggestions for pedals?  A few prerequisites.  They want to document every project so that other fablabs in the French speaking world can use them. So no clones of pedals currently in production. They will be on pcb because working with vero/perfboard and 13 year olds or complete beginners sound like a mess.

I was thinking the first one would be a bazz fuss maybe a fuzz face after.  They also seemed interested in a tremolo and eventually a pt2399 based delay.  Any ideas on a really simple tremolo or delay circuit?  Any other ideas of pedals that are really simple?

Most of my builds have been on vero or pcb bought from here.  So I have no idea how to make a pcb. 

So, anyone willing to share their pcb designs for us to fabricate would be greatly appreciated or point me in the right direction. 

Or if anyone is willing to design a pcb for instance a bazz fuss.  They are willing to pay for services but  it probably won't be to much more than you being able to buy a few beers from the bar.  Or out of the kindness of your heart and leave the money for the kids.

Or if anyone has some old prototypes that are just collecting dust.  Even more complicated ones. Feel free to donate them.  Not so much for the workshops but for me to build for the kids.

Next question.  What is your favorite place to get pcbs made from?

What is a good place to buy in bulk?  They are looking to buy about 100 enclosures and 3pdt switches.  Ive never searched buying in bulk like that before.

With the workshops I would like to give them some resources for further learning.  If any French speakers have some good resources to share with me.  Also I'll be putting links to all the pcb providers here (and elsewhere) so they can continue on their own if interested.

Anyway I'm excited about this project.  It will feel good to give back to people instead of just building another pedal for me and my friends that we don't really need.

We are looking to start the end of January and I'd like to get the ball rolling soon.  I'm off work now with a work related injury but will probably be going back soon and am looking to do the initial leg work now that I have a lot of free time.

I think those are all the questions I have for now.  I'll probably have more in the future.  Thanks in advance for any help.

Scruffie

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 05:35:48 AM »
I can probably whack together some simple designs for the more 'complex' effects if someone else takes care of the PCB layouts.

I don't think you can really beat the Bazz Fuss for parts count to reward.

Good luck with the endeavour, sounds like a good cause :)
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madbean

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 06:07:47 AM »
Just to add to Scruffie's offer, I'd be willing to design one PCB specifically for the cause if it's something straight-forward like a fuzz or tremolo...at no charge on my part. I would provide Gerbers for manufacturing and walk you though where to get them done.
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zombiesonore

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 06:47:06 AM »
I make the same offer as Madbean.
If you give me schematics, I can design the boards.
I really would like to be involved in this project.
And I'm currently working on a board for a Rebote-like delay...

bsoncini

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 07:33:12 AM »
Hey guys.  Thanks for offering to help.  The most important is gonna be the fuzz because we are gonna start with that. 

Maybe Zombiesonore can help with the first one since he speaks french and can help me with any questions with the documentation. English is my first language not French. If he is willing to help with that one

And Madbean maybe you can do a simple tremolo.

Madbean, thanks for offering your help.  You must be pretty busy. Do you sleep at all?

And Scruffie, any ideas for other more "complex" projects?

« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 07:55:20 AM by bsoncini »

madbean

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 07:40:19 AM »
Madbean, thanks for offering your help.  You must be pretty busy. Do you sleep at all?

Sure, I can do the tremolo. How about a 1590B sized one? I'm thinking 9mm right angle pots would be easier for first time builders but they are a little more expensive than 16mm so that is a consideration. Just tell me what specs you need and I can bang it out in like an hour or two.

And yeah - I sleep!
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zombiesonore

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 08:01:52 AM »
Quote
Maybe Zombiesonore can help with the first one since he speaks french and can help me with any questions with the documentation. English is my first language not French. If he is willing to help with that one

Avec plaisir!

But remember, I design boards but no circuit/schematic, alright?


bsoncini

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 08:03:11 AM »

Sure, I can do the tremolo. How about a 1590B sized one? I'm thinking 9mm right angle pots would be easier for first time builders but they are a little more expensive than 16mm so that is a consideration. Just tell me what specs you need and I can bang it out in like an hour or two.

And yeah - I sleep!

I'm gonna have to get back to you on that.  They are looking to buy in bulk so all the projects will probably be 1590b.  As for the pots.  They already have a stock of 16mm solder lug pots that they probably would like to use.  They are left over from their first two workshops, an atari punk console and a mono theremin. But I'll ask them and see what they think  Another important consideration I guess is no fancy vactrols.  Ideally run of the mill led's taped to easy to find ldr's.

Quick question.  Do you have a guestimate of how much it would cost per pcb for a tremolo like this?  How long does it take from ordering to receiving the pcbs?

Thanks again.

zombiesonore

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 08:06:50 AM »
The question is how many PCBs do you need?

bsoncini

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
The first run would probably be 15 or so.  Just to test the waters and see how well it goes.  It is a small space and they only have room for 10 people at a time.  The extra 5 would probably be for the kids.

madbean

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 08:19:05 AM »
I'm gonna have to get back to you on that.  They are looking to buy in bulk so all the projects will probably be 1590b.  As for the pots.  They already have a stock of 16mm solder lug pots that they probably would like to use.  They are left over from their first two workshops, an atari punk console and a mono theremin. But I'll ask them and see what they think  Another important consideration I guess is no fancy vactrols.  Ideally run of the mill led's taped to easy to find ldr's.

Quick question.  Do you have a guestimate of how much it would cost per pcb for a tremolo like this?  How long does it take from ordering to receiving the pcbs?

Thanks again.

It depends on how many you order. A 100 board run of 1590B would come out to something like 50 cents a board. You can go down to 50 boards for a slightly higher per-board cost. But, there's also shipping to consider into the total cost as well. I think $75-80 all in for 100 boards is a pretty good guess. Turn-around time is usually a couple of weeks.
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Matmosphere

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 08:25:35 AM »
As strange as it sounds I might say start with a silicon FF and do the Bazz Fuzz last (or later). Even though the Bazz is a simple circuit you can do a lot with it by adding dirt and tone controls.

you could have them build up a few things and then change it up by having them make Bazz fuzz pedals on breadboards and start showing them how to tweak the circuit by adding different controls or swapping part values.

There is a good powerpoint on the Bazz Fuzz, that walks through a lot of this stuff, over at tonefiend.com

Just a thought.

I could also see it being a very quick, very rewarding first build though.

zombiesonore

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 08:30:09 AM »
If we use Elecrow, with 10 boards, 10x10cm max, they are at 1343 and I think I remember the shipping cost was around 12.
With a 10x10 board, for the bass fuzz I think it will be possible to stick 4 PCBs on one board, so in the end => 40 PCBs.
With the same logic, the 5 boards 10x10cm are around 5. So 4x5 = 20 PCBs for something around 17-20...
As Madbean say, the more you buy, the less it cost...
For the delay, It took a little bit more than 3 weeks for my last order.

madbean

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 09:49:55 AM »
This is straight-forward as can be. 1590B with option for solder lug or PCB pins mounted 16mm pots. A wired switch for square or triangle wave (this can be omitted if you jumper pads 3&2 together for just triangle wave). LFO far enough away from the audio part and separate ground planes with a bridge between (reduce any possible LFO noise). You should be able to use the cheap Tayda LDRs for this. In that case I would recommend 20k or 25k for the volume trimmer and 220pF for C2. 1MB for the Rate pot will be okay, it will just bunch up a bit more so C taper is preferred.

We can change anything you want...just let me know.

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Scruffie

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Re: Need your guys help for a new project (for a good cause)
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 10:35:45 AM »
And Scruffie, any ideas for other more "complex" projects?
I meant the PT2399 delay or maybe a 2 stage OTA phaser, a simple resonant filter fuzz to meet the 'synth' quota?
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