wah footswitch

[oip]

sup folks

never really been into wahs but been asked to play some RATM so did some shopping around and got a second hand crybaby last week.  i've done a couple of mods including true bypass with an LED using a usual tayda blue 3PDT switch.  it works fine but the spacing is not perfect and even mounted at the lowest point where i'm able to trigger the switch, there's still a clicking in normal use when putting the toe down.  the felt pad touches the top of the switch and because it's noisy you can hear it.  it's not a big deal but is a bit annoying, and the actual switching needs more force than i'd like, need to be standing up. 

i was looking into other options and to keep the LED it seems to be:

• mess with the rubber stoppers and felt switch
• low profile switch eg: https://lovemyswitches.com/3pdt-latched-foot-switch-low-profile-solder-lugs/
• 'soft' 3PDT switch
• relay bypass

i think the relay is the nicest, but i've never built one.  before i buy all the bits, has anyone tried it and have an opinion about whether the travel would work for a wah?  ie there's about 1mm of actuation between normal toe down and a 'hard' press for turning the pedal on.  can this be dialed in with the momentary switch or will it be a pain in the ass?  i'm envisaging a switch where the toe down motion taps it slightly but it won't make noise and it won't be enough to trigger it. 

many thanks for any input, waka waka

(messing with the sound options has been fun also, if i can sort out this switching i've got some idea to make a nice version from scratch)

[Leevibe]

I've thought about solutions for this too. I like the relay idea. I think Carling's momentary switch could be the answer. They look similar to the run of the mill cheapie soft touch momentary switches but they have a pretty firm action and they don't rattle. They aren't cheap but they are bomb proof.

[oip]

interesting, yeah they certainly aren't cheap (https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/push-button-switches/8798134/) but look rock solid, if it fits well and is sturdy it might be worth it.  could have sworn i had a tayda version in my stash but haven't been able to find it to test the fit and action at least.

the carling switch that came with the pedal is actually nice and fits well but it's latching.   could possibly still work with attiny style relay designs depending on the code?  need to read up on this. 

edit: so i read up on it and am a dumbass, the attiny is not needed with a latching switch and it's actually simpler with no need to debounce (http://diy.thcustom.com/switching-relay-true-bypass-circuit-overview/).  i'll order some relays and give this a try with the original carling.

i think for other pedal purposes the SPST soft momentary is much nicer and might design some boards for it.  the tayda 3PDTs really are pretty trashy

[LaceSensor]

surely with a soft touch momentary you run the risk of turning the wah on and off with the stroke of the pedal?
I would just go with a more appropriate mechanical switch

[oip]

yes i was thinking about this but curious as to how much room there is.  i just went through and found my SPST momentary and tested: the switch is triggered at the bottom of the throw so it's very similar to the action of the DPDT latching, the momentary can be mounted maybe .75mm lower.  but playing around further, it's actually the cap returning to the top after a (very) partial press from toe down position that makes the annoying 'click' sound.  the SPST still does this, almost as loud as a 3PDT.  the carling return is a whole lot quieter. 

so long story short the switch dunlop uses is good for the purpose  but it will be nice to try a relay in there to keep the LED

[WormBoy]

Not sure if this is a relevant remark, but if you can find a DPDT whose action you like, there are still options to get true bypass with an LED (milennium bypass or optical). So no absolute need for a 3PDT or relay.

[oip]

interesting thanks, i never really looked into millenial or optical bypasses they are both good options.  had a closer look and the salvaged original switch from the wah is SPDT latching, from reading around it seems dunlop changed to DPDT at some point (they are both listed here: https://www.amprepairparts.com/dunlop.htm).

so for this case i might as well try relay as it's cheaper than ordering a new DPDT.

[Leevibe]

The carling momentary feels quite a bit different than the latching version. It kind of splits the difference between the cheap soft touch and a normal latching. It is firm enough that I don't think it would be too easy to trigger when the treadle is toe down. Think of it as a soft touch that takes significant force to engage. When it does, it is kind of a smooth "thunk" instead of a click and I don't think it would rattle like the DPDT and 3PDT.